Husband Keeps Crossing Boundaries - How Would You Feel?

[femchick50]

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I have been married for 25 years to a man I consider to be my soulmate.  We have been together since graduating college.  My husband has always had a higher sex drive but I would say he was always more into quantity than quality.  Things have not always been perfect between the two of us.  He has been a little oversexed and I have been a little undersexed.  He has always had more of an interest in fantasy and erotica than me.  Don't get me wrong- I look at porn every now and then and I think about sex once or twice per day.....but he thinks about it I'd say once or twice per hour.  Also- at one time he was secretly looking at porn and reading erotic stories online behind my back and taking care of himself daily- and it became a topic of frustration for me as I felt he was not as interested in intimacy with me during that time.  I was not too happy about this and we had some issues but worked everything out.  Lately- the issue has been boundary crossing on his part.  Being married for 25 years, I would tend to believe a spouse would know by now what I would consider appropriate or inappropriate.  For the past couple of years, he has crossed a few boundaries that are making me uncomfortable. 

These boundary crossing activities are:   1) he has gone out to dinner with another woman by themselves one-on-one against my wishes  2) he has taken another woman out to lunch by themselves against my wishes 3) he has slapped my face during sex without permission 4) he has vulgarly repeated the word "bi*** while thrusting me.  His responses to these activities are as follows:  1) the dinner was because he was out of town for work with her and they did not want to eat alone and I knew about it (true but after he was already in the process of doing it and when i protested he said he had to do it 2) the lunch just "happened" because they both got up at the same time and walked out of the building together so they just went to lunch 3) he thought I liked a light tap on the face because he was in the moment and felt right 4) he is sorry he called me a B repeatedly while thrusting but he was angry with me regarding an argument we recently had.

The current disagreement is that he is visiting sex stores/shops without me when he KNOWS I want us to go together.  He claims he forgot.  Many years ago, he was really into sex toys.  He would go by these stores after work on his own and purchase toys and bring home to me.  It was becoming awkward because I feel like I know what I like and he was not bringing things home that I liked.  I got tired of this and asked him could we just start going together.  He promised me that we would.  We did go to a couple of stores together and it was a big turn on for me to go as a couple.  At one of the stores, he went up to the female salesclerk and asked her how to use a certain product.  She demonstrated it for us with her hand (which I did think was a little bit too much).  We laughed when we left the store and I told him it was a little weird that she did that and I confirmed with him that I wanted us to continue doing our shopping together at these stores.  My husband is nice looking and we have been out playing billiards and women will just walk up to him right in front of me and try to talk to him.  So I thought we were on the same page- we'd go together.  So right before Christmas, he mentioned that he'd like to buy me a sex toy for a gift.  He wanted to see if I would like to go into the store with him and look for one.  I told him due to the pandemic- I thought we could just purchase online and forgo the store for this time.  I gave him reasons why (you have to go into elevator to get to the store and it is overcrowded).  He agreed.  Then during our last sex session after Christmas, he brings out a sex toy for me.  He's really excited and says "I got you this that night when I went out and went shopping by myself".  I was like "What?!"  I couldn't believe he did it again- went to the store without me after HE KNEW I asked him not to.  He immediately acted like he forgot I'd told him this and that we had discussed it.  I am a little discouraged tonight.  For one thing- we were in the middle of making passionate love and everything was going perfect.  Why would he feel the need to stop and pull out some stupid sex toy at that time- and especially one that he crossed the boundary to purchase.  Then he tried to make me feel bad that I was upset with him because he was just trying to get me a surprise.  

I love my husband, but his behavior does not always seem on par with a spouse who loves me.  It makes me feel sad.  It feels weird.  It is upsetting that he does not respect boundaries and just claims ignorance, forgetfulness, etc when he screws up.  Why can't he just be normal and not so hypersexual/flirty/boundary crossing/puts himself in bad situations.   Any advice or other points of view are welcome!

[Acacia98]

57 minutes ago, femchick50 said:

I love my husband, but his behavior does not always seem on par with a spouse who loves me.  It makes me feel sad.  It feels weird.  It is upsetting that he does not respect boundaries and just claims ignorance, forgetfulness, etc when he screws up.  Why can't he just be normal and not so hypersexual/flirty/boundary crossing/puts himself in bad situations.   Any advice or other points of view are welcome!

Some of the things you complain about are legitimate concerns, e.g. him dining out with other women, the flirtation, slapping you or calling you a b***h during sex.

But then on other occasions you're being unfair/controlling. I'm talking about the part where you seem to police him when he uses porn/erotica to masturbate. The efforts to police him when he goes to sex shops are over the top too. 

I think you two are not remotely compatible sexually. I also think he's unable to live with that incompatibility. If he's not already sleeping around, he eventually will. 

You sound unreasonable about your sexual differences. Particularly in that bit where you ask why he "can't just be normal and not so hypersexual." Is it really possible for a person to control his sex drive at will? If it were that easy, wouldn't you just increase yours so that it would better match his? And wouldn't you think it was cruel if he expected you to do that? Instead of viewing this fundamental difference between you as an indication that there's something wrong with him, why not view it as a basic incompatibility and make realistic decisions about whether you belong together?

[elaine567]

He has built up resentment against  you, I guess he doesn't like you very much and is half way out the door, at least mentally.
You want the whole loving couple routine but he doesn't. He wants porn and the right to slap you or call you a b*tch during sex, he no doubt thinks that adds "spice" but as it is about humiliating and abusing you then you don't like it...
He wants to be free to indulge his fantasies, but you are holding him back from his POV, hence the resentment.
Like many older men with a high sex drive he likely won't leave but will be  very open to an affair or a series of ONSs.
The problem here is that you could decide to indulge every one of his fantasies, but he will still likely look elsewhere too. 
So despite having to put up with the kind of sex you don't like, he will still stray. As he is good looking for his age, he is probably getting "opportunities" presented.

I guess you don't want to leave, he probably knows that.
With no consequences, there is no reason  for him to "behave", so I would expect the boundary breaches to escalate.

Edited January 5, 2021 by elaine567

[mark clemson]

People (even horny ones) can have relative hyper- and hypo-sexual phases in their lives, so some of this may pass. The question remains, though, of how much trouble his current "phase" might get him (and you) into.

There are multiple issues here. WRT to the lunch and dinner issues:

Everything has advantages and disadvantages. As you realize, one issue with having an attractive partner (male or female) is that others will occasionally make overtures. This can go to some folks heads.

He may not (or may) "want out" but it certainly sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too in terms of staying married yet going on what are essentially dates. To do this without your consent and in fact directly against asking him to NOT do it is extremely disrespectful. Some folks would consider it cheating, and some would end their marriage over it.

My take on opposite sex friends is that they are fine BUT the spouse should have the "power" to nix any specific friend that they feel threatens the relationship. Consider asking for that power and giving it to him as well. IMO, that would certainly apply to these women he's spending time with. He should be taking YOU out to dinner.

I did have a female friend I had occasional coffee and lunches with. I ALWAYS let my wife know about it, and the rule mentioned above would have applied. Fortunately my wife recognized that this was ONLY a friendship. I have gotten requests to have lunch with other women that my wife nixxed and I was ok with that.

It is possible that if you investigate these lunches/dinners further you MAY find that there is more to it - i.e., that he is having one or more actual physical affairs. There is also the concept of an emotional affair. Depending on just how he thinks of these women and/or how much he likes their attention, they might qualify. The lines are grey on what makes something an EA, and you as the spouse have some say - if you feel it truly qualifies as an affair - well, you're the spouse. If it bothers YOU, it bothers you.

Unfortunately, I think you need to start showing some serious spine WRT to these activities. This may (probably will) cause some friction in your marriage, possibly substantial friction. However, the alternative is to continue letting him walk all over your boundaries, and your emotions, which sounds unacceptable. For myself, I can say that I wouldn't tolerate this.

Part of showing spine could be to ask for, and if necessary insist on, some marriage counseling. In your shoes I would strongly consider this, as it can help to have a 3rd party to help bring an alternate perspective, hold the partner to account on their actions, and generally referee a necessary discussion. I would be sure to get a very experienced one who genuinely specializes in couples/marriage counseling. Be sure to suss them out a bit, as some small % are wierdos who, e.g. might recommend affairs as a good strategy for a marriage or let their own censorious moral views inappropriately drive the approach they take.

[d0nnivain]

The dining with others -- under the circumstances you described:  work convenience -- wouldn't bother me.  

The other stuff merits deeper discussions about what's allowed & what's not

[Lotsgoingon]

Sexual incompatibility is only part of the issue here. His evolving desire to engage in sexual play is another issue. Your disinterest in playing in the way he wants is another issue. Your desire to limit him from interacting with other women is an issue. His anger and resentment at you is an issue. 

I don't know if you think he's flirting with those women he has gone out with, but these days, if your man works a professional job, the idea that he shouldn't eat with other women strikes me as highly controlling and unreasonable. I would be furious at my partner for trying to block me from having lunch with women friends and coworkers. Three of my closest friends are married women, and I catch lunch and breakfast and phone calls regularly with each of them. My mentor at work is a woman and a friend, and we go out "alone" all the time. Heck I email her office assistant and get on the schedule to go out with her (she's extremely busy these days with a lot of responsibilities). I arrive at her office, banter with her assistants and we go out. Never crossed my mind that there was anything inappropriate about that. And in fact, my mentor was herself mentored by a guy, and she and this guy (who recently left the job) used to always go out for lunch, at the same places she and I go out to lunch. Oh and my mentor typically pays for the meal. But nothing is going on. I know her husband, have eaten dinner with them, see him at social gatherings. 

Maybe your hubby is flirting with these women and that would be a serious problem. But on its own, your setting limits on him going out with women (assuming at work) strikes me as something that could only produce bitter resentment on his part. He may not know how to directly stand up to you on this issue and so his anger is coming out in other ways. I'm not justifying his immaturity here: you and he need to have a real discussion about him meeting women for lunch. 

Maybe he needs to make clear that he talks about you (good way--normal way) when he meets up with these women. Maybe he needs to bring you along so you get a sense of the energy and vibe. Or on the other hand, maybe he is flirting and pushing beyond simple workplace friendship with these women. Or maybe you have a view of male-female relationships that is more traditional. You do have the right to insist that he not flirt with these women he goes out with. But that should be understood. 

So yes, you guys are in conflict over sex right now, but there are other issues as well that you need to deal with.

A couples counselor could be of enormous help to you guys. 

 

 

 

 

[Wiseman2]

As far as sex toys, BDSM activity etc. You can easily go over all that. There seems to be too many rules and regulations with your sex life.

The most concerning issue seems to be that he dates other women. Focus on that.

[pepperbird2]

There's fundamental lack of respect form him towards you, and it's showing up in various places.
Talk to him about that and give him a chance to share his thoughts as well.

[Robhanes44]

This is how I see it.  A devoted married man would not be going out on these “dates” with coworkers who are female.  Especially women you don’t know.  That is disrespectful.  Did you express your disdain for this behavior?  If you did not then you should have.  My wife would not allow this from me- but most importantly I have enough respect for her not to attempt to do such a thing.  If he wanted to have a meeting with a female worker then the office, phone, zoom, etc are the place for things like that- not a dinner.  Things happen to men like that including harrasment charges when a woman wants to take advantage of a man being naive.  Unless he was actually “dating” her which is another story all together.  It is amazing that he would do this given how long you have been together. What a nice guy.  

[CarolecarolS]

I am truly sorry OP for what sounds like a miserable thing you have been thru.  Your spouse sounds very immature and disrespectful.  First of all, the slapping you is NOT ok.  I don’t see it as being healthy to allow this to happen whether in the moment or not.  It is degrading what pornography has done to people- the lines keep moving on what is acceptable and what isn’t.  Your husband sounds a bit too focused on sex and after so many years one would expect more.  Is he usually focused only on the act or does he ever express love?  I feel sad you are living without love.  This is not normal.  Now- regarding the boundary crossing behaviors.  I am a married female executive for an insurance co.  I travel out of town once every few weeks with my job.  Usually it is by myself or a group of 3-4 people. In the “me too” era, a lot of companies plan travel like this to avoid HR disasters of two opposite sex people travelling together.  Are you sure your husband and this woman didn’t plan this ahead of time?  It sounds all too convenient that they “had” to dine out together, travel together, etc.  How many trips were just the two of them?  Was the lunch with the same woman?  It is also strange when you said you informed him you did not agree with it- he continued to do it.  He has walked all over you OP.  Does not care about your feelings.  I would have been very wary of this relationship.

Edited January 14, 2021 by CarolecarolS