What AP of 10 years says to me when he thinks he's dying

[trident_2020]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Fair enough. I was pointing out the same thing you are - just as we can't assume she'd shrug it off, we can't assume she'd be in extreme distress either.

 

The fact that cheating husband wants to take it to the grave should be a pretty obvious clue as to how the wife would take to the news of an affair.

 

[Amethyst68]

5 hours ago, mark clemson said:

This is a fair point. However, to give some balance, there ARE people who essentially shrug off cheating and/or relatively easily reconcile or walk away. There are also people who get emotionally traumatized by separation or divorce without any cheating involved. I suspect that some significant level of distress is typical, but there are going to be degrees of it and substantial variation.

Apologies if this seems to be minimizing your personal pain, it's just that since there's variance in how people are "wired" emotionally, and other "separation" situations are also substantially traumatic, I think it important to keep that in mind when assessing/discussing these things.

One thing I'd remind you of is that you never know what's going on behind closed doors.  What you perceive as shrugging off cheating relatively easily could be people who prefer to keep their suffering in private and not be judged for staying with a cheater. It doesn't mean their hurt is any less. Why should they have to broadcast it to prove to others they care? 

In this case it's extremely unlikely the wife won't care. In the OP's own words:

Quote

Almost every weekend we have social plans with them and vacations etc

This is not a stranger, the wife is going to be doubly betrayed by her husband and a close family friend. 

[Lorryborry]

7 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

One thing I'd remind you of is that you never know what's going on behind closed doors.  What you perceive as shrugging off cheating relatively easily could be people who prefer to keep their suffering in private and not be judged for staying with a cheater. It doesn't mean their hurt is any less. Why should they have to broadcast it to prove to others they care? 

In this case it's extremely unlikely the wife won't care. In the OP's own words:

This is not a stranger, the wife is going to be doubly betrayed by her husband and a close family friend. 

Its hurtful for the OH...of course it is .  And it's hard on the wife.  Very hard. But listen no one is perfect.   He probably really has feelings for OW but he will not want to hurt his wife and family. So it will never come to anything for the OW.  Only casual intimacy.   I think Savannah should try and move away from this and let him bond with his family and stay there when he recovers. It's not so easy to cut him out. Just let her pull away and heal. She will be fine. Good things will happen for Savannah.  I'm sure it's not 10 wasted years. It was misguided.  Her feelings took over. That makes us selfish.  Let's stop being hard on her. She knows what she needs to do. People who go off side can be good people.   It can happen to the best of us. Lets be kind to each other. Woman come here for support because they cannot go anywhere else because we can all be guilty of judgement of matters we know nothing about. Just because we have experience or are long term members does not make us Authorities.  Mind yourselves. Be safe

[Amethyst68]

Look I think there's definitely better out there for Savannah. This is a single woman who holds down a job, runs a home and raises her kids, she just needs to get out of this situation. 

The thing is these threads have been going on for the past 8 years and nothing had changed. They inevitably turn into a poor me tone and all blame is put on the MM. The truth is Savannah is an adult and made her own choices and is the only person who can change her life. 

[Lorryborry]

9 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

Look I think there's definitely better out there for Savannah. This is a single woman who holds down a job, runs a home and raises her kids, she just needs to get out of this situation. 

The thing is these threads have been going on for the past 8 years and nothing had changed. They inevitably turn into a poor me tone and all blame is put on the MM. The truth is Savannah is an adult and made her own choices and is the only person who can change her life. 

Hi there. Sorry I ended up directly responding to you last time. I'm only new here since an hour ago but am thinking its probably not the best place for me to comment for fear of causing upset. I suppose my thoughts on affairs are as follows. I dont condone them. I think good people male and female can end up in one at vulnerable times when a perfect storm is presented.   When we are low.   Does not excuse it.  It explains it.  I think people can get washed away in teenage feelings. Feeling noticed. Young again. But they can be different for men. Woman tend to get hooked and carried away and lose alot more.  The married man tends to have all his wits about him. He will never screw up his home life as he wants that security.  It just lacks excitement.   The woman falls in love. The man can too but he never leaves.  Doesnt make him bad either. Just a bad bet for a woman to be involved in. And it's best to pull herself out  of it. Nevermind the 10 years. People waste 10 years in all sorts of situations and have nothing to show for it. So it's not a big thing.   Savannah and many like her will have better opportunities when they let married man stay married and dont give them any diversions.  If they want to be with wife and family then let him. No man is so fantastic.   Emotional stuff has to be parked and the other woman has got to be practical.   Life will be easier without.  I'm going to close account. Hope I helped on someway.

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

The fact that cheating husband wants to take it to the grave should be a pretty obvious clue as to how the wife would take to the news of an affair.

Not necessarily, actually.

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

One thing I'd remind you of is that you never know what's going on behind closed doors.  What you perceive as shrugging off cheating relatively easily could be people who prefer to keep their suffering in private and not be judged for staying with a cheater. It doesn't mean their hurt is any less. Why should they have to broadcast it to prove to others they care?

I certainly agree there are folks like that. I'm not saying she would shrug it off, I'm saying some people do and some don't and we shouldn't assume either way. Even the OP wouldn't really know as she's the OW, and the husband could always be wrong in what he thinks as well, although he's no doubt the most likely to be right.

[Starswillshine]

51 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I certainly agree there are folks like that. I'm not saying she would shrug it off, I'm saying some people do and some don't and we shouldn't assume either way. Even the OP wouldn't really know as she's the OW, and the husband could always be wrong in what he thinks as well, although he's no doubt the most likely to be right.

Yes, but what is the chance that the BS is just someone to shrug it off and not give any care. That is NOT common. Vast majority of people are hurt to their core over it. 

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

That is NOT common. Vast majority of people are hurt to their core over it. 

I agree that some distress is typical. Intensity clearly varies. Not sure about what "hurt to their core" means. I think there's a fair number who are simply pissed off and walk away from the marriage then and there. Is "very" pissed off the same as "hurt to your core"? Dunno. Some also seem to forgive and want to simply move past it quickly (not necessarily a good idea, but it's what they seem to want in some cases).

I would guess the extreme reactions on both ends (extremely "devastated" and extremely "blasé" about it) are rarer, simply based on the normal curve. In the absence of actual data, I suppose we can both claim our opinions are likely to be right.

Edited January 14, 2021 by mark clemson

[Negotaurus]

Sorry to be blunt but I don't understand what you get out of these pity-parties you throw for yourself, Savannah. You're a grown woman. You have a job. You have kids. And you are happily exploiting your body to a married man, have been doing so for years while knowing he doesn't love nor even really care about you. You don't want to quit, find better, okay. This is what you have chosen for yourself. You're not a victim in this, and I hate that some people get the idea that you are. You're a grown woman and this is what you have chosen to do. Either stop looking for pity and own it, or get help and do better.

[Lorryborry]

5 hours ago, Negotaurus said:

Sorry to be blunt but I don't understand what you get out of these pity-parties you throw for yourself, Savannah. You're a grown woman. You have a job. You have kids. And you are happily exploiting your body to a married man, have been doing so for years while knowing he doesn't love nor even really care about you. You don't want to quit, find better, okay. This is what you have chosen for yourself. You're not a victim in this, and I hate that some people get the idea that you are. You're a grown woman and this is what you have chosen to do. Either stop looking for pity and own it, or get help and do better.

She just really likes this guy.  To me she has endured so much.   She deserves to be happy.  I feel we need to be kinder to Savannah and help her see a better way. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Lorryborry said:

She just really likes this guy.  To me she has endured so much.   She deserves to be happy.  I feel we need to be kinder to Savannah and help her see a better way. 

He is married to another woman. Frankly, it doesn’t matter how much she likes the guy - he is married to another woman. 

Yes, she has endured so much but she has also CHOSEN this for herself for many, many years.

You have not apparently read Savannah’s previous threads, which is ok. It just means that you haven’t seen the pages and pages in each discussion during which Savannah says “I’m heartbroken. I know this needs to end. How do I find the strength...” It means that you haven’t seen the pages and pages in in each discussion during which people have tried to reason, encourage, comfort, and offered touch love hoping that Savannah would make a better, healthier choice for herself.

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by BaileyB

[Commongoal123]

You were never together.

[Findingfreedom]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:40 PM, Savannah2 said:

Well used to be just oral I mean that’s what he seemed to prefer only, but more recently it’s full on sex. And no he’s never even hinted or uttered anything that he may love me I used to say it to him but I stopped a long time ago because he could never said it back. One time I said it to him and his response was I wish I could say I did 

 

Omg!! What the hell are you doing with him?!? Please don’t be w this a**h*** anymore!!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

14 hours ago, Negotaurus said:

Sorry to be blunt but I don't understand what you get out of these pity-parties you throw for yourself, Savannah. You're a grown woman. You have a job. You have kids. And you are happily exploiting your body to a married man, have been doing so for years while knowing he doesn't love nor even really care about you. You don't want to quit, find better, okay. This is what you have chosen for yourself. You're not a victim in this, and I hate that some people get the idea that you are. You're a grown woman and this is what you have chosen to do. Either stop looking for pity and own it, or get help and do better.

Or she has some psychological issues that he is exploiting. Read through all of her threads for years and tell me that this man isn’t completely aware and taking advantage of the situation. Yes, Savannah SHOULD be accountable for her actions but the truth is, this MM has chosen her for the ability to take advantage. If a complete stranger can intuitively comprehend what’s going on , I’m sure he’s well aware and enjoying taking advantage of the situation.

[Negotaurus]

31 minutes ago, IfWishesWereHorses said:

Or she has some psychological issues that he is exploiting. Read through all of her threads for years and tell me that this man isn’t completely aware and taking advantage of the situation. Yes, Savannah SHOULD be accountable for her actions but the truth is, this MM has chosen her for the ability to take advantage. If a complete stranger can intuitively comprehend what’s going on , I’m sure he’s well aware and enjoying taking advantage of the situation.

I have considered that and I am sure she has some sort of psychological issues, though admittedly I am no one to diagnose anybody - I’m not licensed, nor do I know her. 
 

My opinion does come from reading most of her posts and threads. From what I have gathered, she simply chooses to not get help. Nothing suggests that she is not capable of controlling her own life. Like I mentioned, she holds down a job, takes care of her kids, has gone through a divorce and recognised the abuse she was in. She appears to be seeing this “situationship”  for what it is as well. She knows he doesn’t care. She knows how he feels for his wife. She has asked him those questions, and this man who is apparently exploiting her has actually been honest with her. In my opinion, she KNOWS exactly what is happening. 
 

The way I see it, most people say that once you’ve hit rock bottom, the only way you can go is up. Well, she has decided to make a home out of it. 

[Lorryborry]

On 1/14/2021 at 1:56 PM, Negotaurus said:

Sorry to be blunt but I don't understand what you get out of these pity-parties you throw for yourself, Savannah. You're a grown woman. You have a job. You have kids. And you are happily exploiting your body to a married man, have been doing so for years while knowing he doesn't love nor even really care about you. You don't want to quit, find better, okay. This is what you have chosen for yourself. You're not a victim in this, and I hate that some people get the idea that you are. You're a grown woman and this is what you have chosen to do. Either stop looking for pity and own it, or get help and do better.

She needs support here.  Shes in a difficult situation.   Shes asking for help. 

[Lorryborry]

Hi Savannah,  rooting for you. Sending good vibes  you will be fine. Better things to come for you.

[trident_2020]

5 minutes ago, Lorryborry said:

Hi Savannah,  rooting for you. Sending good vibes  you will be fine. Better things to come for you.

How do you know she'll be fine? There's absolutely no indication that she's taken the excellent advice given to her by numerous posters on this thread or the countless other's she's posted. As far as we know she's going to keep right on doing what she's doing with this other woman's husband until and unless he puts a stop to it.

Nothing will change for the better unless she starts making better decisions.

[Lorryborry]

19 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

How do you know she'll be fine? There's absolutely no indication that she's taken the excellent advice given to her by numerous posters on this thread or the countless other's she's posted. As far as we know she's going to keep right on doing what she's doing with this other woman's husband until and unless he puts a stop to it.

Nothing will change for the better unless she starts making bette

And she will. Shes asking for help. Shes going to get there.

[trident_2020]

If you say so. 🤐

[Beentheretoooften]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:10 PM, Starswillshine said:

Yes, but what is the chance that the BS is just someone to shrug it off and not give any care. That is NOT common. Vast majority of people are hurt to their core over it. 

It’s been going on under her nose for 10 years.  My guess is I’m sure she has had her suspicions, but didn’t push the issue. Again, just a guess, but I would suspect pretty accurate.  

[Negotaurus]

7 hours ago, Lorryborry said:

She needs support here.  Shes in a difficult situation.   Shes asking for help. 

She has been receiving excellent support for years. She's only fallen deeper. 

I often feel like the people who contribute to her wallowing are enabling her destructive behaviour. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Negotaurus

[elaine567]

4 hours ago, Beentheretoooften said:

It’s been going on under her nose for 10 years.  My guess is I’m sure she has had her suspicions, but didn’t push the issue. Again, just a guess, but I would suspect pretty accurate.  

I think many cheaters believe the BS knows , of course she must know, some even believe she is complicit but that is looking at it from a cheater's perspective.
Very many get a huge shock when they realise on D Day that their spouse had NO IDEA.
I do not think the wife here necessarily suspects as the affair is solely about messing around at work. There are no secret trysts or weekends away or nights in hotels, no sneaking around, no billets-doux, no suspicious activity whatsoever.
There is no love for Savannah on his part, so he is not mooching around like a love sick teenager either, and he loves his wife, he always has done. Savannah provides a service, this affair is not a love story, never has been. 
He goes to work, he comes home, why would his wife be suspicious?
 

[Starswillshine]

7 hours ago, Beentheretoooften said:

It’s been going on under her nose for 10 years.  My guess is I’m sure she has had her suspicions, but didn’t push the issue. Again, just a guess, but I would suspect pretty accurate.  

She may have. And she may have spoken to him, and he may have convinced her that she is crazy thinking that he would ever cheat on her. And crazy her friend would ever do that do her. He may have even suggested she see someone about her trust issues (yeah all this happened to me). It does not mean that she doesn't care. Sometimes you feel nuts thinking people would betray you. Overly paranoid. You feel you need to have pure evidence. Not just a guess to blow the top off of a marriage and family. 

Sometimes, wives just implicitly trust their husbands