What AP of 10 years says to me when he thinks he's dying

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

We are not puppets pulled by some mysterious force.

While I don't disagree with your overall point, this isn't quite as true as we'd probably all like to believe. There are involuntary behaviors, with probably the best known being drug addiction. And while there's apparently more than one kind of addiction, many addictive drugs, such as cocaine "hijack" parts of our brains that are heavily involved in sexual behavior as well.

You won't have much luck telling a cocaine addict to "just stop". And it's easy to say they never should have experimented with it. True - but they did and here they are.

I DON'T think all people in affairs (or in love in other ways) are similar to addicts, but SOME are and it's sometimes what occurs. For those in those situations, the extremely strong desire, much like the drug addict's, is in fact involuntary. Not "succumbing" can be much harder than it might on the surface appear, as this sort of thing can go well beyond ordinary social attention and sex drive.

I'm not sure this applies to OP, in fact I rather think it doesn't. But you were speaking generally. I think OP may be in more of a "sunken costs" situation.

[trident_2020]

^Agree with the above.

We aren't always able to control our impulses, obsessions, etc without guidance and medication and possibly not even then.

I think of all the smokers I see on a daily basis, several on oxygen bottles, even one who can't be given surgery for lung cancer because he refuses to quit smoking.

They simply don't have the internal resources and strength to do it.

 

[Lorryborry]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

While I don't disagree with your overall point, this isn't quite as true as we'd probably all like to believe. There are involuntary behaviors, with probably the best known being drug addiction. And while there's apparently more than one kind of addiction, many addictive drugs, such as cocaine "hijack" parts of our brains that are heavily involved in sexual behavior as well.

You won't have much luck telling a cocaine addict to "just stop". And it's easy to say they never should have experimented with it. True - but they did and here they are.

I DON'T think all people in affairs (or in love in other ways) are similar to addicts, but SOME are and it's sometimes what occurs. For those in those situations, the extremely strong desire, much like the drug addict's, is in fact involuntary. Not "succumbing" can be much harder than it might on the surface appear, as this sort of thing can go well beyond ordinary social attention and sex drive.

I'm not sure this applies to OP, in fact I rather think it doesn't. But you were speaking generally. I think OP may be in more of a "sunken costs" situation.

I agree totally with this.  It's a high like no other.  But the low is the pits of hell. Neural pathways have to be reset. Only way is by staying away from source.  That will settle it down.  I got so attached in my situation.   I didn't know enough about this life of married men and affairs. Was just never in my life until I made poor decisions around bereavement.  Its definitely chemical.   But when we know all this we got to be strong.  These married guys are destructive. They dont care.   They are a different make up and do not have integrity and are bad news. They should stay to f away from vulnerable woman.  I'm not saying we have no choice far from it but I think they prey when we need support.  That's how I feel today. 

[Savannah2]

I think what I’m struggling the most with right now is the fact that the writing has been on the wall the entire time it just took him on the brink of death for me to see his truth towards me. It hurts. It hurts so bad and I do miss him. I really do. 

have you guys heard that song “ what sarah said”  by death cab for cutie? Omg it’s hitting so close to home right now it’s scary. 

[DKT3]

13 minutes ago, Lorryborry said:

By the way I'm not saying the women has no choice its equal but woman end up being the sad losers while the mm skulks back home.

How are married women different? Isn't that what you're doing?skulking back home.

@Savannah2at what point do you put yourself above this guy? 

[Lorryborry]

25 minutes ago, Savannah2 said:

I think what I’m struggling the most with right now is the fact that the writing has been on the wall the entire time it just took him on the brink of death for me to see his truth towards me. It hurts. It hurts so bad and I do miss him. I really do. 

have you guys heard that song “ what sarah said”  by death cab for cutie? Omg it’s hitting so close to home right now it’s scary. 

It says all about him the manner he has behaved toward you. Think about it. What would u tell a friend?  As my therapist says to me it can only result in pain.  That's why I'm simply not going to partake in it.  It's  the stuff if shyt shows.  It's just no good.   Dont get me wrong iv not got my head together and I should not be giving advice.but I know how u feel

[Wiseman2]

 

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

There's so much help available. Anyone stuck in a love triangle is hurting a bunch of people, most of all, themselves.

 

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

You won't have much luck telling a cocaine addict to "just stop".

 

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, Savannah2 said:

the complicated nature of our relationship makes healing from this even more difficult .

But, it’s not actually all that complicated Savannah. 

You have romanticized this such that you think he would turn to you for support and comfort when he’s ill. No doubt, he is with his wife and family now. He has clearly told you that he wants no contact. His primary concern as it related to you was that you were not discovered because he doesn’t want to be known as a cheater (which is laughable, because the guy has been having sex at work for 10 long years!). 

I understand, this is hard for you because you are very invested in this relationship... but, you seriously need to find some clarity in this life changing moment because if his response to this illness doesn’t tell you where you stand with this man, nothing will.

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by BaileyB

[Lorryborry]

34 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

But, it’s not actually all that complicated Savannah. 

You have romanticized this such that you think he would turn to you for support and comfort when he’s ill. No doubt, he is with his wife and family now. He has clearly told you that he wants no contact. His primary concern as it related to you was that you were not discovered because he doesn’t want to be known as a cheater (which is laughable, because the guy has been having sex at work for 10 long years!). 

I understand, this is hard for you because you are very invested in this relationship... but, you seriously need to find some clarity in this life changing moment because if his response to this illness doesn’t tell you where you stand with this man, nothing will.

 

Hi Bailey thanks for your help to me yesterday.  I 100% agree with this. But if it's any comfort to Savannah I'm in similar position.  My "friend" is I'll with covid. I'm worried about him. No reply to my txt asking how he Is.  Its coz hes with his family.  This clearly tells me where I come in his life. Total fantasy. We in similar situations.  I'm moving away from this big time.  It's just destructive.  This site is informative.  I was nervous yesterday but feel more trust in it today. Bailey your response is always good.   We all need to stop investing in these losers

[Savannah2]

Lorry.. I can’t believe both our “friends” are ill with Covid at the same time and dealing with the same situation as far as no communication from them...
they really are all the same.. 

and yes I agree that baileys responses are always great 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Savannah2

[Lorryborry]

7 minutes ago, Savannah2 said:

Lorry.. I can’t believe both our “friends” are ill with Covid at the same time and dealing with the same situation as far as no communication from them...
they really are all the same.. 

and yes I agree that baileys responses are always great 

I think its probably a trend with these "friends". I'd say we are not the only ones.  All mm are same. Want home security and outside fun. Wife has all the financial rights though.   It's a losers game.  I really like my friend but I'm not going to ruin my life over him. F..k him.   Theres better things ahead for you and me. My therapist recommends filling life with good stuff so no room for this AH.  R u single?  Then dont waste time on him. Meet someone single. They are out there. Hes not last man on planet. We are just living fantasy. 

[Amethyst68]

You know I wasn't going to post but the last few posts really annoyed me and not even the cheating, it's the tone of them.

I can't stand the whole rhetoric of the big bad MM taking advantage of the poor naive woman, especially in cases like this. Maybe in the case of a much older man and a teenager or really early twenties I'd give it some credence but both S and L are mature women, both work, in fact one owns a business with her MM, they have families. One other thing despite S now being single they were both MW when their affairs began, L still is.  They were in the exact same position as their MM - deceiving and lying to their spouse. 

If the MM has any power over them it's because they gave it to them. 

[Savannah2]

Amethyst I never claimed that he took advantage of me. I did give my power over to him. I do feel responsible for the position I put myself in. I wish I had been stronger to not get involved with him 10 years ago. I really do wish I had chosen a different path for myself. 

[DKT3]

24 minutes ago, Amethyst68 said:

You know I wasn't going to post but the last few posts really annoyed me and not even the cheating, it's the tone of them.

I can't stand the whole rhetoric of the big bad MM taking advantage of the poor naive woman, especially in cases like this. Maybe in the case of a much older man and a teenager or really early twenties I'd give it some credence but both S and L are mature women, both work, in fact one owns a business with her MM, they have families. One other thing despite S now being single they were both MW when their affairs began, L still is.  They were in the exact same position as their MM - deceiving and lying to their spouse. 

If the MM has any power over them it's because they gave it to them. 

They don't see it that way because they make these mm their priorities above family.  They are angry that he hasn't done the same. Of course they will deny this but actions above words.

[Savannah2]

I’m not angry that he is with his family. I’m sad and I miss him a lot right now. I just want to know that he is ok. It has nothing to do with feeling like I’m entitled to be there with him or think he needs to make me a priority.  

[BaileyB]

32 minutes ago, Savannah2 said:

I’m sad and I miss him a lot right now.

Why? He hasn’t given you a second thought except to tell you to delete all evidence of your presence in his life... And here you are, moaning about how much you miss him and listening to sad songs. Good gracious girl! 

Sure - you wish you hadn’t got involved 10 years ago but you still make the decisions EVERY SINGLE DAY to be involved with this man - even when he treats you badly and pushes you away. It’s not that you have no control here and it’s not that you can’t go back in time and make things different - you chose this for yourself every single day! 

Quote

I really do wish I had chosen a different path for myself. 

Here’s the good news!! You can chose a different path for yourself today. You can block him and stop pining over the man. But, I don’t get the sense that you are ready to do that. I would bet money that when he recovers from covid and comes back to work, if he asks you for sex you would do it - despite the fact that he has told you by his words and actions that it’s nothing more than sex at work. There is no doubt in my mind...

Edited January 19, 2021 by BaileyB

[Savannah2]

Bailey I wish you weren’t correct but I know you are.. I just love him. I wish I didn’t but I don’t know how to stop 

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

There's so much help available. Anyone stuck in a love triangle is hurting a bunch of people, most of all, themselves.

That's true, they can get a therapist or similar to help them process their situation if/when they start to feel they are "in too deep".

[Beentheretoooften]

18 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I think many cheaters believe the BS knows , of course she must know, some even believe she is complicit but that is looking at it from a cheater's perspective.
Very many get a huge shock when they realise on D Day that their spouse had NO IDEA.
I do not think the wife here necessarily suspects as the affair is solely about messing around at work. There are no secret trysts or weekends away or nights in hotels, no sneaking around, no billets-doux, no suspicious activity whatsoever.
There is no love for Savannah on his part, so he is not mooching around like a love sick teenager either, and he loves his wife, he always has done. Savannah provides a service, this affair is not a love story, never has been. 
He goes to work, he comes home, why would his wife be suspicious?
 

Elaine, I’m surprised at you. If he’s getting blowjobs or sex  4-5 times a week, I bet that when his W asks for sex, he more than likely turns her down more often than not.  Meaning, he would have to basically shower every day after he got home from work.  You don’t think the W NOTICED ANY DIFFERENCE OR CHANGE???

[Lorryborry]

58 minutes ago, S2B said:

Well, you can choose a different path FOR YOURSELF now. Yep, it’s up to YOU to take your power back and change this.

Anything less is just excuses at this point that feed your delusions. 
 

if not now... when? there’s no better time.

find a new job. Maybe move far away to somewhere you’ve wanted to experience.

take advantage of a fresh start - that way you can find someone to love you... truly love you by making you his top priority.
 

 

Yes that's it. New day. Put past behind us.  This is not going to lead to happiness. Let's distance ourselves and leave them to their family.  They will look after them.  They will be fine 

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

That's true, they can get a therapist or similar to help them process their situation if/when they start to feel they are "in too deep".

They're "in too deep" the moment they decide to carry on with someone who is in another relationship. Yes. It's that simple.

It's not like a cocaine addiction. That's an excuse to hurt a lot of people, especially kids.

Every time mom/dad is having a roll in the hay with their lover, they are betraying all involved.

No we're not puppets. Every single time there's secret chats and clandestine trysts it's a conscious willful choice.

Just like getting behind the wheel drunk. Conscious choice. Not a believer in running over innocent people for others selfish behavior.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Wiseman2

[elaine567]

6 hours ago, Beentheretoooften said:

Elaine, I’m surprised at you. If he’s getting blowjobs or sex  4-5 times a week, I bet that when his W asks for sex, he more than likely turns her down more often than not.  Meaning, he would have to basically shower every day after he got home from work.  You don’t think the W NOTICED ANY DIFFERENCE OR CHANGE???

He may be highly sexed so any "extra" he takes in his stride and he may shower at work before he goes home or he does shower after work, many do that anyway, or he just doesn't bother showering much... 
Many married women are not pent up and all desperate for sex, many will have sex when their husband initiates.
Some would be happy if the sex tailed off. Not happy he is screwing someone else but happy his sex drive has decreased. 
If he has a routine, sex on the week end for example, then why would she be suspicious?

Many long term women rely on blind trust, "He would never do that".

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Savannah2 said:

.. I just love him. I wish I didn’t but I don’t know how to stop 

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it seems like the choices are being made for you.

Now that real life and serious issues are occurring for him, it's just hitting you hard how much in the periphery you've always been.

You can stop loving him. It starts with reflection on the shabby treatment all this while vis-a-vis what you would really like out of life.

[Lorryborry]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it seems like the choices are being made for you.

Now that real life and serious issues are occurring for him, it's just hitting you hard how much in the periphery you've always been.

You can stop loving him. It starts with reflection on the shabby treatment all this while vis-a-vis what you would really like out of life.

Good advice Wiseman.   He is not all that great.  Hes protecting his home life.  That is not a reflection of Savannah s worth.  Hes just looking after himself. Typical selfish behaviour.   She can move on. It's all possible. X

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately it seems like the choices are being made for you.

Yup. Unfortunately, there is nothing she can do. She made her choice 10 years ago. She loves the guy. 

It is a form of self harm, in my humble opinion.

But, if she doesn’t think that she has the ability to make a different decision, it will never change. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by BaileyB