good vibes?

[basil67]

It doesn't matter if it was when I was dating, or hanging out with people I know - if I tell someone that my plans are up in the air, it's my way of dodging the engagement.  It's very rare that someone's plans are so disorganised that they can't set a date for something they really want to do.    

[tokidoki]

They may want to do it, but there may also be circumstances in their life which means that it's not a good idea to rush into it, in which case they might express interest but maintain a little distance for a while. It also allows people to seperate the men from the boys, so to speak. 

If she were truly not interested, she's had severa opportunities just to tell me it's a no go. 'I'm not ready to date right now' or 'I'm still with my boyfriend' or 'I need to focus on myself'. All those are easy to say and and finite.

People don't like to make themselves too available and I don't blame them. I'd love to go out with this girl but not gona throw a wobbly if it doesn't happen. 

[Versacehottie]

6 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

They may want to do it, but there may also be circumstances in their life which means that it's not a good idea to rush into it, in which case they might express interest but maintain a little distance for a while. It also allows people to seperate the men from the boys, so to speak. 

If she were truly not interested, she's had severa opportunities just to tell me it's a no go. 'I'm not ready to date right now' or 'I'm still with my boyfriend' or 'I need to focus on myself'. All those are easy to say and and finite.

People don't like to make themselves too available and I don't blame them. I'd love to go out with this girl but not gona throw a wobbly if it doesn't happen. 

Pretty much agreed.  For some people a lack of answer is their way of keeping the door open--they are indecisive for whatever reason, which is a good thing as far as what your goal is. (ie it's not a direct rejection so the door is left open in a way).  A lot of people just aren't direct in general.  There are a few guys in the past that were pursuing me and it just wasn't the right time for me, had nothing to do with them really as I did think of them later when I was in the mindset to date.  Though it could be a sign that interest just isn't strong enough because I didn't really track them down afterward either....well except for one guy which I actually did (had a boyfriend when he asked me out; contacted him after we broke up and it was pretty much my funniest date story ever).

So it's kind of a yes and no.  Some people aren't direct in saying they aren't interested for a ton of reasons.  And sometimes it's not about you, only about timing/other circumstances.

I agree with both you and basil.  I do know people who are so disorganized or busy (has been me for sure) that they don't set a date.  TBH, it usually factors into all the reasons why it's not good timing for the relationship overall--why they don't have the capacity, emotionally or time in their schedule overall to make it a priority. 

The thing about your girl is that she was supposedly hanging out with friends.  So I think it's a lack of emotional availability at the moment rather than being too busy genuinely to prioritize dating (she can socialize which is effectively the same thing as far as time spending goes).  Or obviously it could be disinterest and not wanting to be direct (this is a total MO for lots of girls).

Funny back to my story and the guy that I went on a date with after a boyfriend and I broke up, I was actually still emotionally unavailable so actually agreeing to the date didn't mean as much as people might attach to it either. I went on lots of dates as a way to get over the boyfriend.  I really wasn't taking any of the guys I dated immediately after seriously at all. I'm only telling this story to show that range of reasons and motivations that people can have and they can be more varied than a single note answer that you might get on the forum.  Though I do agree with general sentiment that "NOT YES" is either = NO or NOT NOW.  

Edited February 19, 2021 by Versacehottie

[tokidoki]

I've never considered any of it personal - I don't mean to sound cocky, but at the moment there's nothing to dislike about me as far as she's concerned. It will be circumstances in her life that are holding her back. She had a bf only 3 months ago, which isn't that long to get serious about dating. 

I also understand that people don't like to be direct, but I literally gave her the opportunity to be direct. I said 'we can rearrange or leave it- you can be real, I'm not the type to take it personally'. If you're not interested, you don't say 'I'm sure we can make it work in the next couple weeks', you say 'its not a great time for me right now'.

If it is disinterest, then its almost a little patronizing that someone would STILL try to spare your feelings after being told something like that. 

 

 

[tokidoki]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

It doesn't matter if it was when I was dating, or hanging out with people I know - if I tell someone that my plans are up in the air, it's my way of dodging the engagement.  It's very rare that someone's plans are so disorganised that they can't set a date for something they really want to do.    

In which case you should work on being more direct and honest with people, rather than communicating inauthentically. People are generally more respectful of that. 

[elaine567]

Women often learn not to be direct as rejected suitors can turn aggressive and nasty.
Better she fades away "nicely" and then disappears than face the wrath of some guy who takes out his disappointment on her... 
I don't think this girl is interested.
Interested people tend to act interested. Interested people WANT to go on dates and will rearrange their life to suit.
It is a coffee date not a three week vacation she has to somehow slot it...
She is just giving you excuse after excuse.
She is at the very best lukewarm about you. 

[basil67]

5 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

In which case you should work on being more direct and honest with people, rather than communicating inauthentically. People are generally more respectful of that. 

No, I'm quite happy as I am.   

[Versacehottie]

5 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

I've never considered any of it personal - I don't mean to sound cocky, but at the moment there's nothing to dislike about me as far as she's concerned. It will be circumstances in her life that are holding her back. She had a bf only 3 months ago, which isn't that long to get serious about dating. 

I also understand that people don't like to be direct, but I literally gave her the opportunity to be direct. I said 'we can rearrange or leave it- you can be real, I'm not the type to take it personally'. If you're not interested, you don't say 'I'm sure we can make it work in the next couple weeks', you say 'its not a great time for me right now'.

If it is disinterest, then its almost a little patronizing that someone would STILL try to spare your feelings after being told something like that. 

 

 

Yeah i agree that you shouldn't take it personally at all.  And I also agree that it's very possible that she is just not really ready to date yet so perhaps it's not that she doesn't like you--she just isn't in that headspace.

That said, even given the opportunity to be direct as you did, actually that usually puts a person more on the spot and they will hold to what their previously given excuse was--it's both a psychological thing and just speaking as a woman who would not be direct (often has not & know many of my friends have not), I do agree with Elaine that sometimes people are not direct, especially women.  It's exactly why the block feature is so popular in part.  I mean doesn't it sound a little crazy to block someone that has done nothing wrong to you but be interested in you??? Yet people do it every day.  It's easier than rejecting someone directly or letting them know what is going on with you directly (something not just anyone has a right to know & perhaps you want to preserve an image that is something more positive than being heartbroken, etc.  Like if you don't say what your excuse is no one can break your excuses down).  Anyway, my point is giving her an out to "tell you" means virtually nothing if a person doesn't want to be direct.

I've been in your corner all along...at the same time I think understanding that not all people function the same way/same timeframe is valuable to do and it's pointless to make arguments of what "should" be done when you are dealing with what has been done (ie her not really going on the date...yet and not taking you up on offers to let you know if she's not interested).  I think it's probably most likely exactly what hot guys (or hot people) do: they don't turn you down necessarily, they bask in the limelight a little and keep you in the back pocket.  Not necessarily a bad thing if it's just for timing that she is doing so.  You don't seem that bothered anyway so just think of it as planting seeds which is probably exactly what she is thinking of it as.

[littleblackheart]

6 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

I've never considered any of it personal - I don't mean to sound cocky, but at the moment there's nothing to dislike about me as far as she's concerned. It will be circumstances in her life that are holding her back. She had a bf only 3 months ago, which isn't that long to get serious about dating. 

I also understand that people don't like to be direct, but I literally gave her the opportunity to be direct. I said 'we can rearrange or leave it- you can be real, I'm not the type to take it personally'. If you're not interested, you don't say 'I'm sure we can make it work in the next couple weeks', you say 'its not a great time for me right now'.

If it is disinterest, then its almost a little patronizing that someone would STILL try to spare your feelings after being told something like that. 

 

 

Agreed. I think you handled it fine, fwiw, on all fronts.

Like you I try to be as direct and straightforward as I can, and while people say that's what they want, few actually respond with directness back (I'm a straight woman; it's not a gender thing).

No point in taking it personally, as you say. Could be seed planting, could be ambivalence, could be disinterest, could be timing, could be a number of other things. 

Up to you to decide whether you think this is worth seeing through, or whether it's drawing a line in the sand time.

[dramafreezone]

On 2/17/2021 at 10:16 AM, davidsonramirez said:

OK well here's an update:-

end of last week I messaged her saying 'weather looks a bit better next weekend - are you back in town for that coffee?', she said she was in town and down to meet. I gave her a time and a place and the date was set. See ya then.

Tuesday she messages me - 'I'm going back to my hometown again but I'm free tomorrow'

'OK, I'm working in the morning but should be clear in the afternoon - She says she's seeing her friend in the afternoon...I say OK what about the evening (not sure why she would tell me she's free tomorrow if she isn't (bear in mind it's lockdown, nothing to do in the evenings)), and she tells me 'she'll keep me posted'.

Next morning I told her OK look, I can see you today but if we can't make plans now let's just leave it for another time (not sitting around in a state of uncertainty)

She says again 'OK well I'm seeing her at 1....I'll let you know afterwards', and I just didn't reply. 

Later on she messages 'Sorry I'm being so long, I have to stay these sides now' (i.e. I can't meet).

 

I just said 'OK, well a rainy wednesday isn't really ideal anyway. We can find another day or just leave it. You can be real though. I'm not the type to take it personally'

She said 'OK, I'm a bit here and there atm but I'm sure we'll make it work in the next couple of weeks'.

And I said 'that's fair, just call me when you're ready and we'll see what the vibe is then'.

I'm not sure what to make of it. My gut instinct is that she is interested, but nervous. Seems like she may have had a clingy/controlling partner before and is vetting me for similar behaviour. Definitely playing hard to get,which is fine. It is unattractive when people are too available, but it's a fine line between playing hard to get and playing a game.

I've done all the chasing i can now. Not doing anymore. She can call me if she is keen.

 

 

 

Couple of things from my vantage point:

I think you would've been better off turning down the short notice date.  No one that you're dating for the first time should be able to call you and set up a date for the next day.  If she was already your GF, sure, but she's not.  Think about it, if she can just call and get a date with you the next day, how can she value your time?  She made you wait weeks, but you turn around and agree to meet her a day later?

Once she gave you the "I'll let you know" you should've withdrawn the offer and tell her to get back to you when her schedule is more certain.  Don't ever, ever accept a maybe date.  In that moment she's saying that her time is more valuable than yours.  She's going to have to respect your time eventually.  She has zero respect for your time right now.

Also, why did you say "you can be real though?"  That wasn't a great thing to say.  It presupposes that you get turned down a lot.

I think she's vascilating between minimal and no interest.   i don't think she's intentionally playing a game.  I think she saw you as highly available and interpreted your time as cheap, so she didn't value it.  In any event, once she cancels without suggesting anotther day, then it's up to her to hit the ball over the court.  I agree that your pursuit should be over. 

If she comes back around you have to make it clear that she's not going to get on your schedule any time she wants.

Edited February 21, 2021 by dramafreezone

[tokidoki]

yeah I totally agree with you - I said I would likely be about in the afternoon given that she suggested ‘tomorrow’. After that, she tried to leave it up in the air and keep me waiting but I said exactly that - ‘if you’re not sure lets leave it for now’. I didn’t really say anything inauthentic. I could have met her that afternoon, if she was willing to make a plan and stick to it. If it’s ‘I’ll let you know’ then the offer’s off the table. I was firm but also flexible.

I said ‘you can be real’ because I could tell that something was holding her back a bit. Not to be cocky, but I’ve not given her anything to dislike about me so far. It means ‘you don’t seem sure for whatever reason. Don’t feel like you need to spare my feelings, just say what’s on your mind - you’re either into it or you’re not’. It also demonstrates that I can handle and appreciate emotional honesty and maturity.

We made a date, she cancelled, and i told her to get back to me when she’s ready and we’ll see what the vibe is, i.e. you’ve missed your chance for now, I’m not chasing any more. 
 

my time is valuable which is why I set a date, and expect people to stick to it. If you bin it I’ll be flexible to a point in trying to make it work but I don’t do the wishy washy thing.

 

[dramafreezone]

4 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

yeah I totally agree with you - I said I would likely be about in the afternoon given that she suggested ‘tomorrow’. After that, she tried to leave it up in the air and keep me waiting but I said exactly that - ‘if you’re not sure lets leave it for now’. I didn’t really say anything inauthentic. I could have met her that afternoon, if she was willing to make a plan and stick to it. If it’s ‘I’ll let you know’ then the offer’s off the table. I was firm but also flexible.

I said ‘you can be real’ because I could tell that something was holding her back a bit. Not to be cocky, but I’ve not given her anything to dislike about me so far. It means ‘you don’t seem sure for whatever reason. Don’t feel like you need to spare my feelings, just say what’s on your mind - you’re either into it or you’re not’. It also demonstrates that I can handle and appreciate emotional honesty and maturity.

We made a date, she cancelled, and i told her to get back to me when she’s ready and we’ll see what the vibe is, i.e. you’ve missed your chance for now, I’m not chasing any more. 
 

my time is valuable which is why I set a date, and expect people to stick to it. If you bin it I’ll be flexible to a point in trying to make it work but I don’t do the wishy washy thing.

 

For the most part I think you handled it well.  I would bet there's another guy in the picture (probably the ex) but he's already messed up once so he'll mess up again. I think there's a good chance you'll get a "hey stranger" text in about 2-3 months, then the ball's in your court.  If that does happen I would make sure to make the date 5-7 days out.

Edited February 21, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:15 AM, elaine567 said:

I don't think this girl is interested.
Interested people tend to act interested. Interested people WANT to go on dates and will rearrange their life to suit.
It is a coffee date not a three week vacation she has to somehow slot it...
She is just giving you excuse after excuse.
She is at the very best lukewarm about you. 

Agree!  When I've been truly interested in the man, and not just something to do when nothing else going on, I have canceled other plans, rearranged my schedule, and jumped for joy (not literally lol) at the opportunity to be with him. 

Course, I don't share that with him, I simply make myself available when possible.

I know the advice is to not do that, but hell I really wanted to see him! 

That's what a woman does when truly into you, the man.

Don't settle for less than that or try to game (strategize) her into responding the way you want.

She may end up falling for your game, but not you. 

There's a difference.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Versacehottie]

5 hours ago, davidsonramirez said:

 

Not to be cocky, but I’ve not given her anything to dislike about me so far. It means ‘you don’t seem sure for whatever reason. Don’t feel like you need to spare my feelings, just say what’s on your mind - you’re either into it or you’re not’. It also demonstrates that I can handle and appreciate emotional honesty and maturity.

 

Bolded>>>>>well you've said that a couple of times so far in this thread and I think you are "wrong" there to be honest.  I agree with your assessment that you've not given her anything at least from what I can tell in your telling of your story to dislike about you and it could be an absolute fact too from her perspective.  The thing is that people can definitely do NOTHING wrong/nothing to make you dislike them and you can still not like them.  That has happened to literally every girl I know & many guys (probably all of them, I just haven't spoken to all the ones I know about it).  I'm sure if you think about it that there are girls who have liked you that didn't do anything wrong, have nothing wrong with them character-wise or are fine on paper but you just don't feel that spark for or chemistry with.  That's just life. 

So I don't think it's being cocky but it is a bit naive to presume "not giving her anything to dislike" translates into anything.  If dating someone and finding chemistry was that simple, by your own definition, you should be dating then (for not having done anything dislikable).  We all know it's more complex than that.

[poppyfields]

Versacehotti, by "not liking" is it safe to assume you mean "not feeling the right energy/chemistry"?

I've known, have dated, many men, who were from what I knew about them, great guys, I liked them, but nevertheless felt zero energy with them.

They did nothing wrong, per se, and I wished the energy/chemistry was there but it wasn't and it's not something that can be forced or disingenuously manufactured. 

I think that might be what's happening here.  

 

[Versacehottie]

Yes that is what I mean: "not liking" in my post meant no spark/no chemistry with.  Or at least not meeting the threshold where a person wants to date the other person.

I'm not even sure that is what is going on with the OP & this girl.  I think it simply could be bad timing, ie she's not over her ex yet or emotionally unavailable.  He seems like a smart guy so I hope he's not naive enough to presume that "not giving her anything to dislike" about himself does not amount to anything really.  She could think he's fine as a friend but not feel romantic or dating chemistry or not enough of it to take that step.  As you said Poppy, it's possible to feel zero energy of that type even though you know the guy is great even.  Or I would add you can feel some but not quite enough to make it worth pursuing (like it doesn't meet the threshold).  Those could be the types where the OP knows he is feeling "something" from her...and she might genuinely enjoy a bit of flirting and the attention but not enough to go forward.  

I think he's been handling it as well as possible & I would say very well IMO (and he can be cocky, lol or confident all he wants since it's a good thing to have handled something well with dating).  He just made that comment a couple of times so it made sense to say something in case he was confused on that.  He could be gorgeous, successful, charming, confident AND handling it perfectly and might not be able to move her.  It happens especially if she is still hung up on the ex.  Sadly sometimes the timing works out like that and in what I've seen often it's not like you remove being hung up on the ex and form a new opinion about the OP.  The first impression is already there and is pretty fixed, ie she might never see him as dating material for herself because she has already formed an opinion about it.

Hope that's not at all what is going on--since I have taken the OP's version that there is some chemistry.  I hope it will materialize into a date once she's over her ex.  But it helps to consider the possibility that she's just not into you in that way--cause that's a thing too (despite how perfectly one handles things or that from your perspective you feel chemistry or there's been flirting). 

[Cookiesandough]

There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with you. Perhaps you are just not her type. E.g. Some people like cockiness or arrogance and some  people don’t 

 

When you tell a girl who hardly knows you to get back to you when she is free for a date, you put the onus on her to reach out for a date. And a lot of women won’t do it, esp when there are other good options doing the planning.  Just sayan

Edited February 22, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[tokidoki]

On 2/22/2021 at 2:18 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

There doesn’t have to be anything ‘wrong’ with you.

yeah all I mean is - I don't regret anything I did or said. Left it all out there. Communicated respectfully and clearly.

I'm not going to wait in vain though. She is either in to it or she isn't. She has my info but I won't be contacting her again. I made plans, she bailed. Reading between the lines, seems like she needs more time after her breakup so chasing will only be counterproductive.

On 2/22/2021 at 3:07 AM, Versacehottie said:

He could be gorgeous, successful, charming, confident AND handling it perfectly and might not be able to move her.

I am gorgeous and successful. The rest you already know

 

 

[Versacehottie]

hahha, good answer!

[tokidoki]

Do you wana go on a date? 😛

[dramafreezone]

On 2/21/2021 at 7:07 PM, Versacehottie said:

Yes that is what I mean: "not liking" in my post meant no spark/no chemistry with.  Or at least not meeting the threshold where a person wants to date the other person.

I'm not even sure that is what is going on with the OP & this girl.  I think it simply could be bad timing,

With women that have lukewarm interest, I think it's usually timing.  If she had no interest at all then he wouldn't have gotten the number or any call/textbacks.

She may just want to keep him as a backup until she sees things through with the ex. If the ex weren't in the picture I think OP would've already been on the date.  We all know how strong those attachments are.  But they've already broken up once so I think the OP just has to bide his time.

[Versacehottie]

35 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

With women that have lukewarm interest, I think it's usually timing.  If she had no interest at all then he wouldn't have gotten the number or any call/textbacks.

She may just want to keep him as a backup until she sees things through with the ex. If the ex weren't in the picture I think OP would've already been on the date.  We all know how strong those attachments are.  But they've already broken up once so I think the OP just has to bide his time.

totally agree ^^^^  

[Cookiesandough]

When I’ve had lukewarm interest, it’s never been about “timing”. It’s always been something about the guy that I didn’t feel 100%  into., but I was keeping options open anyway 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes