Awkward email conversation w/program supervisor

[Watercolors]

Last fall I participated in a 6 week certificate program hosted by a nonprofit organization for unemployed people looking to update their skill sets. One of the program supervisor’s who co-led the 6 week course (who also had access to my employment history and financial information as per the application process), recently hit on me, asking me out, via email, after the weekly job club that I’ve attended since completing the certificate program. 

I’ve made it clear that I’m a bit of a curmudgeon in the romance department here; however, if the right man presented himself to me (not via online dating — yuck) I am open to that. 

Having got to know this man over the 6 weeks of my online participation in the program, I realized he and I couldn’t be more opposite. And in my case, I’m not attracted to him AT ALL. He’s religious - I’m an Atheist. He’s never traveled internationally - I have, and I worked and lived abroad. He’s not a fan of pop culture and doesn’t watch tv - I love pop culture and I watch tv. He’s not a fan of the arts at all and prefers his bible study groups - I’m a huge fan of the arts and would burn a bible if someone threw it at me. 

So, I was surprised when he emailed me to ask me if I would like to go out on a date with him. It was very awkward. I also felt like I wasn’t in a position of equal power, as he was my supervisor during my certification program. So, that feeling really turned me off. Like he could hold it over my head that he has a full-time job whereas I do not currently.

After the awkward email exchange of me rejecting him, he acted very strange during the next weekly online job club meeting towards me making weird comments about me. I don’t want to stop going to the online weekly job club. It’s helpful. But it’s also a more current employment reference re: a certification program. I just won’t use him as the contact reference but will use his colleague’s name instead. 

Did I overreact to all the differences and the feeling that if we did date, there would be this power imbalance between us? He’s not bad looking and he obviously has a steady job. I just can’t date someone who I feel isn’t going to treat me with respect. Or who will look down on me for being unemployed since the pandemic hit, while I try to find a full-time job again. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Watercolors

[littleblackheart]

10 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

And in my case, I’m not attracted to him AT ALL.

Then there is no dilemma.

You've only got a few weeks left, you've already rejected him by email, you don't need his name as a referee, it's all online anyway, you can ride the awkwardness out. 

 

[Keridan]

2 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

Then there is no dilemma.

You've only got a few weeks left, you've already rejected him by email, you don't need his name as a referee, it's all online anyway, you can ride the awkwardness out. 

 

I couldn't agree more. 

You did nothing wrong and I would say just do your time and move on. Honestly, the guy sounds a little creepy. 

If you aren't into him, he needs to leave you alone.

Just to mention it, he might just be hurt you didn't like him back, but that is still no reason to treat you different ly.

 

[stillafool]

26 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

He’s not a fan of pop culture and doesn’t watch tv - I love pop culture and I watch tv. He’s not a fan of the arts at all and prefers his bible study groups - I’m a huge fan of the arts and would burn a bible if someone threw it at me. 

I actually think this would be more the problem in trying to date him.  You're completely incompatible.  Just no.

[littleblackheart]

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I actually think this would be more the problem in trying to date him.  You're completely incompatible.  Just no.

Probably why she's not attracted to him. You really need a similar outlook on life and similar interests / passion to make it work at a minimum. That's what creates the attraction in the first place.

Edited January 15, 2021 by littleblackheart

[Lotsgoingon]

You can trust yourself. You're asking if you over-reacted. Well you didn't call his mother and call her names, did you? Other than that, there is no such thing as over-reacting. You're writing as if you have to justify saying "not interested" to the guy. You owe him no justification. 

You have the right to say you're not interested--even if you were similar in all the interests you mention. And you are certainly smart to not get involved with a guy who supervisors a program that is important to you. Definite power imbalance.

Just say, "I want to keep things professional." Period. 

I hope you're not really doubting yourself as much as it seems. Being uninterested in someone is almost the default position. We should leave that position only when we overwhelmingly feel the desire to do so. You don't have to justify the default. 

[littleblackheart]

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

Last fall

I just caught this, sorry! Is the 6-week programme over? If so there is no power imbalance, right? 

So it's just the weekly job club you're attending? 

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, Keridan said:

I couldn't agree more. 

You did nothing wrong and I would say just do your time and move on. Honestly, the guy sounds a little creepy. 

If you aren't into him, he needs to leave you alone.

Just to mention it, he might just be hurt you didn't like him back, but that is still no reason to treat you different ly.

 

Thanks. He did give me a creepy vibe, definitely. I think you’re correct. His weird behavior onscreen during the Zoom weekly job meeting (the two supervisors review job-related topics and then send out job leads to the people who attend the weekly sessions), was very weird because he kept referencing where I used to live when I was younger (which he got from my address history which was required on the application). 

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

I actually think this would be more the problem in trying to date him.  You're completely incompatible.  Just no.

Yep. He and I are 100% incompatible. 

1 hour ago, littleblackheart said:

Probably why she's not attracted to him. You really need a similar outlook on life and similar interests / passion to make it work at a minimum. That's what creates the attraction in the first place.

I agree. We don’t have a similar outlook on life and definitely don’t have similar interests at all. Not even in music, art, film, or anything. If we had just met randomly, I would think he’s nice looking but that’s about all. There’s no substance after that, that attracts me to him. Sure, he does good work with the nonprofit helping people find jobs. But that doesn’t mean he’s the right guy for me. I also would never ask someone out who I was helping. That is just crossing a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Ever. 

39 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You can trust yourself. You're asking if you over-reacted. Well you didn't call his mother and call her names, did you? Other than that, there is no such thing as over-reacting. You're writing as if you have to justify saying "not interested" to the guy. You owe him no justification. 

You have the right to say you're not interested--even if you were similar in all the interests you mention. And you are certainly smart to not get involved with a guy who supervisors a program that is important to you. Definite power imbalance.

Just say, "I want to keep things professional." Period. 

I hope you're not really doubting yourself as much as it seems. Being uninterested in someone is almost the default position. We should leave that position only when we overwhelmingly feel the desire to do so. You don't have to justify the default. 

I’m so conditioned to say “yes” to people I want to say no to. I guess my codependency still gets triggered and probably why I don’t like dating in general. And why I feel the need to justify the default position of “no thanks, not interested.” Which is so ridiculous because i know I have more self esteem then that. I’ve been alone a long time, and I just don’t want to be accountable for another person’s feelings or have to defend my own choices and decisions etc. to another person. 

We definitely don’t have similar interests. His personality onscreen is very patriarchal with the certification students/clients. Definite power imbalance if we had things in common and tried to date. I would definitely resent him. 

I did. I wrote “Thank you, but I would like to keep things professional between us for obvious reasons.” He replied that he understood and that he was disappointed. It just made me feel so icky and awkward. Like, a predator asking a victim out. I know that’s an exaggeration but that is the vibe I felt, which is probably some of my anxiety projecting on to the situation. 

22 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

I just caught this, sorry! Is the 6-week programme over? If so there is no power imbalance, right? 

So it's just the weekly job club you're attending? 

Yes the 6 week program ended in October but the weekly job club meets every week and people who take the certification class can attend the weekly job club until they want to stop. as luck would have it, he won’t be participating in the job club in 2021 anymore. I just got an email stating that there will be two different employees. So I am RELIEVED to say the least. Now I won’t have to deal with him anymore or worry about him contacting me. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Just remind yourself Watercolors that saying "not interested" to someone--especially someone you didn't have a flirty vibe with--doesn't much hurt. It's awkward, but doesn't hurt like a breakup hurts. You could have a bf. You could just not want to date right now. He hasn't invested anything in you. So the pain is just a sting to the ego.

And then men have this ego coping mechanism that says, "act strong and confident when you see her next." And that acting actually helps!

I get the codependent stuff. I have to remind myself that saying "not interested" is painful to the person for about an hour. Real pain requires real attachment and there is no attachment yet. So you're not much "hurting" someone by saying you're not interested---even if it feels like you are. 

[littleblackheart]

I agree with @LotsgoingonI also don't think he'll be heartbroken over this. 

My experience on this is that I had a really great flirty vibe - strong interest in a guy online recently (not in a position of power though in the sense that he was not patriarchal at all), we had the same outlook on life, same worldview, same interests, etc but it never really took off because there was never any one on one interaction. He would give me mixed signals, hence I became a bit insecure over his potential interest. It felt like too much ambivalence, so I had to bow out, not because I wanted to but felt I had no choice. I'd love to be able to catch him to settle things privately, and I've actually tried, but he's super elusive. 

Not the same experience to yours as I kind hoped he'd do as your guy did and send me a clear message of interest by email, text or any other private means of communication.

Edited January 16, 2021 by littleblackheart

[Watercolors]

41 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Just remind yourself Watercolors that saying "not interested" to someone--especially someone you didn't have a flirty vibe with--doesn't much hurt. It's awkward, but doesn't hurt like a breakup hurts. You could have a bf. You could just not want to date right now. He hasn't invested anything in you. So the pain is just a sting to the ego.

And then men have this ego coping mechanism that says, "act strong and confident when you see her next." And that acting actually helps!

I get the codependent stuff. I have to remind myself that saying "not interested" is painful to the person for about an hour. Real pain requires real attachment and there is no attachment yet. So you're not much "hurting" someone by saying you're not interested---even if it feels like you are. 

Thanks for reminding me that it’s not really going to affect his ego after about an hour. We didn’t have any flirty-vibe ever during the 6 weeks of classes or during the weekly job club meetings on Zoom. So his email shocked and surprised me. I won’t worry about it anymore. I was worried that the consequences of me saying “no” to his date invitation would mean the end of my ability to attend the weekly job club sessions, and use that nonprofit as a current job reference in the context of passing tests to get multiple skill set certificates. I think that’s at the core of my anxiety over this awkward email conversation. 

I know that I took the coward’s way out - not dating -  to avoid triggering my codependency. That was another reason I said “no” to his date invitation, even if I thought we had enough in common interest-wise. I’ve read all the Melody Beattie books, taken classes for codependency and done my time with a good CBT therapist about it. But, it’s like a nasty case of Herpes; it’s always there, easily triggered when I get stressed out. 🙄 😬

Codependency is literally the worst affliction one can have, when it comes to coping strategies. Because it’s not possible to be rid of it completely. It requires so much mental energy to overcome on a daily basis with people. Anyone who doesn’t have codependency won’t understand. It’s always there, as a maladaptive behavior. (Thanks mom and dad for screwing me up as a little kid!) My siblings are both married with children, but their codependency exerts itself in. dysfunctional ways with their own spouses and children. It’s easy to spot. 

23 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

I agree with @LotsgoingonI also don't think he'll be heartbroken over this. 

My experience on this is that I had a really great flirty vibe - strong interest in a guy online recently (not in a position of power though in the sense that he was not patriarchal at all), we had the same outlook on life, same worldview, same interests, etc but it never really took off because there was never any one on one interaction. He would give me mixed signals, hence I became a bit insecure over his potential interest. It felt like too much ambivalence, so I had to bow out, not because I wanted to but felt I had no choice. I'd love to be able to catch him to settle things privately, and I've actually tried, but he's super elusive. 

Not the same experience to yours as I kind hoped he'd do as your guy did and send me a clear message of interest by email, text or any other private means of communication.

Sorry to hear your flirty vibe fizzled out with that guy you met online. Remember the Monty Python song, “Always Look On the Bright Side of Life.”  There will be other guys. Don’t dwell on him, b/c it will eat up your energy and focus and be a colossal waste of your time. 

[Lotsgoingon]

I agree with you, Watercolors. Codependency (I typically used the phrase "weak boundaries") is fundamentally disabling. Makes it hard to say no, makes it hard to know you want to say no. Really complicates every part of life. And you're right, it stays with you, but I bet you have made lots of progress. I bet there was a time when you would have said "yes" to this guy. Really credit yourself for saying "no" even awkward though it was. And I bet there was a time when you wouldn't have come here with the confidence to share what you were going through and the confidence to open yourself to feedback.

So credit yourself. Even a little progress in boundaries can our lives a lot--and moderate progress even bigger positive changes still. You don't need to be perfect at this to really steer your own course. And frankly, one of the best steps you can take is to just hesitate giving an answer, allow yourself time to consult others and get clear, then come back and say "no." That's fine. No crime to use that strategy. Gets you 90 percent of the way towards where you wanna go. 

[Watercolors]

9 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I agree with you, Watercolors. Codependency (I typically used the phrase "weak boundaries") is fundamentally disabling. Makes it hard to say no, makes it hard to know you want to say no. Really complicates every part of life. And you're right, it stays with you, but I bet you have made lots of progress. I bet there was a time when you would have said "yes" to this guy. Really credit yourself for saying "no" even awkward though it was. And I bet there was a time when you wouldn't have come here with the confidence to share what you were going through and the confidence to open yourself to feedback.

So credit yourself. Even a little progress in boundaries can our lives a lot--and moderate progress even bigger positive changes still. You don't need to be perfect at this to really steer your own course. And frankly, one of the best steps you can take is to just hesitate giving an answer, allow yourself time to consult others and get clear, then come back and say "no." That's fine. No crime to use that strategy. Gets you 90 percent of the way towards where you wanna go. 

Thanks Lotsgoingon. I’ve made a lot of progress definitely, over the years. You’re correct too - ten years ago, I would have said “yes” to his date invitation. But now? Heck no!! Dating terrifies me now. Especially that I’m older. Really, I just want to spend the rest of my time trying to figure out who I am, and form myself 100%. I don’t want to waste my time taking care of a man’s feelings or be his potential punching bag either emotionally or physically. I just can’t be bothered anymore b/c of the risks involved. 

[Wiseman2]

It's flattering but let him down politely and easy. Use one of those "it's me not you" style explanations.

You know... Busy, stressed, getting over Covid, too much going on, etc., etc.

[littleblackheart]

10 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Sorry to hear your flirty vibe fizzled out with that guy you met online. Remember the Monty Python song, “Always Look On the Bright Side of Life.”  There will be other guys. Don’t dwell on him, b/c it will eat up your energy and focus and be a colossal waste of your time. 

Thanks. No dwelling! I've really enjoyed getting to know him either way; he seemed like a really together guy. No White Knight Syndrome for once! A bit embarrassed by how I acted (very much like an awkward teenager with a crush) but hey, you live and learn. It helped me see where I was going wrong, how I want to be treated and what I'm actually looking for in a guy. 

10 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Dating terrifies me now. Especially that I’m older. Really, I just want to spend the rest of my time trying to figure out who I am, and form myself 100%. I don’t want to waste my time taking care of a man’s feelings or be his potential punching bag either emotionally or physically. I just can’t be bothered anymore b/c of the risks involved. 

I was where you were until recently. I realised it's ok to take risks, even when they don't pay off. There are some great guys out there still, who will treat you like as an equal. I think you should reconsider whenever you feel up to it. I know I have. The timing isn't great now but when things settle, it's worth giving it a go.

Edited January 16, 2021 by littleblackheart

[Watercolors]

4 hours ago, littleblackheart said:

Thanks. No dwelling! I've really enjoyed getting to know him either way; he seemed like a really together guy. No White Knight Syndrome for once! A bit embarrassed by how I acted (very much like an awkward teenager with a crush) but hey, you live and learn. It helped me see where I was going wrong, how I want to be treated and what I'm actually looking for in a guy. 

I was where you were until recently. I realised it's ok to take risks, even when they don't pay off. There are some great guys out there still, who will treat you like as an equal. I think you should reconsider whenever you feel up to it. I know I have. The timing isn't great now but when things settle, it's worth giving it a go.

What changed your mindset to give dating another try? I've been single for ten years - that's a lot of years. I'm like that character Ouiser Boudreaux from the movie Steel Magnolias - grouch and sarcastic. I'm not willing to change who I am, to make a man like me. The games that men play are ridiculous, and they play them at all ages. The last thing I want to do, is spend my time in a relationship with a man who refuses to treat me with respect and who gaslights and minimizes my feelings. I'd be happy with a dog and a couple of cats instead.

Pets easier to get along with, and won't try to steal my money or ruin my credit, and they won't emotionally abuse me or lie to me. At their worst cats and dogs may get sick and throw up and need to be treated with medicine. I've had to take care of myself for ten years, so I don't see myself taking care of a sick boyfriend ever. I'm so "over" taking care of other people's feelings for them.

Show me a single man who is happy with himself, who is grounded, has his act together and doesn't have some scary skeleton in his closet like serial murderer or philanderer, who doesn't need a woman to validate him, then maybe...maybe I'd consider dating that type of man. I doubt that he exists though. 

I respect that you take risks, even when they don't pay off with regards to dating. Me? I'm not there right now. I'm so fed up with the bulls*** men pull on the women they date, that I have no tolerance for it anymore. I''ve become caustic to say the least and lost my sense of humor about it. 

[littleblackheart]

2 hours ago, Watercolors said:

I'm like that character Ouiser Boudreaux from the movie Steel Magnolias - grouch and sarcastic. 

Not watched it, sorry!

2 hours ago, Watercolors said:

The last thing I want to do, is spend my time in a relationship with a man who refuses to treat me with respect and who gaslights and minimizes my feelings

I think that's pretty universal, to be honest. 

Seems like your guy waited for you to finish the course before asking you out and took the rejection well from what you were saying. 

2 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Show me a single man who is happy with himself, who is grounded, has his act together and doesn't have some scary skeleton in his closet like serial murderer or philanderer, who doesn't need a woman to validate him, then maybe...maybe I'd consider dating that type of man. I doubt that he exists though. 

I don't have the stats handy, but all the men I know are perfectly fine. Obviously you weren't attracted at all to the guy in the OP, but that doesn't mean to say he's not a good guy, or that he is a serial killer or a philanderer. You can't assume anything since you don't know him that well.

2 hours ago, Watercolors said:

Me? I'm not there right now

Fair enough. Baby steps. You just got to go with the flow.

If you're happy single, then that's fine; you don't need to be in a relationship if you don't want to.

Good job you don't need to worry about any of that with the guy in your OP since he's leaving anyway, and he's not your type.

[littleblackheart]

4 hours ago, Watercolors said:

What changed your mindset to give dating another try?

Sorry I realise I didn't answer your question! That was a bit dismissive of me.

To make a long story short, nothing in particular, other than getting to know really good guys, and trying to get out of my own way. I've always been my own worst enemy, trying my hardest to change this pattern.