[UPDATE] Fight Fire With Fire? or Gentle Douse of Water?

[poppyfields]

Hey guys, general question I'd like opinions on.

When your partner does something intentionally hurtful, maybe because they felt hurt by something you did (unintentionally), but instead of discussing like a rational mature adult, they punish you by angrily lashing out or acting out, do you believe in standing up for yourself and expressing anger back? 

Essentially fighting fire with fire? 

OR wouid a calm cool approach (gentle douse a water) be better to change the angry dynamic and extinguish the fire? 

I'm torn on what the correct approach is. 

Thanks guys. 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Added [UPDATE] to title

[trident_2020]

You''ll gain nothing but aggravation by escalating the situation.

If you talk it out and try to get her to understand why she's being hurtful you just might have a shot at improving the situation rather than watching your relationship deteriorate into the smoking pit of constant conflict and eventual demise.

Remember the purpose of a relationship is mutual support, love and affection, not being the one to grip the top of the bat.

At least, mine is.

[poppyfields]

1 minute ago, trident_2020 said:

You''ll gain nothing but aggravation by escalating the situation.

If you talk it out and try to get her to understand why she's being hurtful you just might have a shot at improving the situation rather than watching your relationship deteriorate into the smoking pit of constant conflict and eventual demise.

Remember the purpose of a relationship is mutual support, love and affection, not being the one to grip the top of the bat.

At least, mine is.

I know but realistically isn't that easier said than done?

I mean, your partner angrily lashes out and we're then supposed to calmly make them understand why they're lashing out?  What am I, their therapist? 

Or respond in a calm cool manner when their behaviour was incredibly hurtful?  

What about our own feelings?  And standing up for ourselves when verbally attacked?

I'm so sick of "making nice" (gently dousing the flame) every time my partner acts like a shyt. 

I did that the last time he got angry and I was reading back on all my threads about him, about us, on another forum I was a member of during our first coupe of years together, and I did same.

Essentially acquiescing to gently douse the flame.  Which it did and everything was good, until the next time.  

I'm so tired of doing that; I need to change this dynamic and maybe having a good row about it is the better approach, it's certainly what I feel like doing!  

But then I get what you're saying too and feel like it would make it worse.

I mean someone hurts you, you stand up for yourself otherwise would not that make you some sort of a doormat?

 

 

[trident_2020]

I'm not really in your situation so I don't know. My significant other doesn't say hurtful things to me, and when others say something that angers me I go right back at them with 110% more than they gave me because I don't take sh%t from anyone.

I'd like to think that "if" my SO said something to me that was hurtful I'd talk to them about it and make it clear that I wouldn't tolerate being spoken to that way and if it happened again, I'd do "something" to punish them but probably not screaming and yelling. Maybe just to the passive aggressive thing and ignore them for a few days.

 

[poppyfields]

No screaming and yelling to get point across.  Just healthy assertive anger. 

Because I'm sick of it and I'm pissed!  

But to him, anything other than acquiescing to his frame is deemed "disrespectful."   Or "shaming." 

I hope others chime in, I'm curious how they handle conflicts like this with their SO's.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by poppyfields

[SumGuy]

22 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I know but realistically isn't that easier said than done?

I mean, your partner angrily lashes out and we're then supposed to calmly make them understand why they're lashing out?  What am I, their therapist? 

Or respond in a calm cool manner when their behaviour was incredibly hurtful?  

What about our own feelings?  And standing up for ourselves when verbally attacked?

I'm so sick of "making nice" (gently dousing the flame) every time my partner acts like a shyt. 

...

Much easier said than done as it can be a natural tendency to defend.

It is a matter of degree and frequency, some people do not want to build a bond, it is their way or the highway.  They may for a time change, say they are sorry, but that is just to keep things going.  Like a rubber band, they will snap back to the abusive behavior.  

Quote

Essentially acquiescing to gently douse the flame.  Which it did and everything was good, until the next time.

  This is the abuse cycle, especially if there was excuses, promises to change, apologies but the abusive behavior doesn't stop.

Quote

 

I'm so tired of doing that; I need to change this dynamic and maybe having a good row about it is the better approach, it's certainly what I feel like doing!  

But then I get what you're saying too and feel like it would make it worse.

I mean someone hurts you, you stand up for yourself otherwise would not that make you some sort of a doormat?

 

One would think standing up to such people would make then change for the better, but it really doesn't.  The smart ones just change tactics, most just make more excuses or even escalate.  It does feel good though, just make sure it is safe.

Sadly, you can try to work with the person to change the dynamic, give them a chance or two, but at some point there needs to be accountability, consequences.  For many such abusive people having a row with them is reinforcement, they thrive on such drama and it gives them a ready excuse to blame you for their behavior (they love to reverse cause and effect).

In my opinion how you stop being a doormat is to leave the relationship.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by SumGuy

[Alpacalia]

37 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Hey guys, general question I'd like opinions on.

When your partner does something intentionally hurtful, maybe because they felt hurt by something you did (unintentionally), but instead of discussing like a rational mature adult, they punish you by angrily lashing out or acting out, do you believe in standing up for yourself and expressing anger back? 

Essentially fighting fire with fire? 

OR wouid a calm cool approach (gentle douse a water) be better to change the angry dynamic and extinguish the fire? 

I'm torn on what the correct approach is. 

Thanks guys. 

 

I think what you're referring to is passive aggressive behavior, in which case, returning passive aggressive behavior with passive aggressive behavior will have you both perpetuate a cycle of going in circles, hurting each other's feelings and resentment.

It is important to speak about feelings freely instead of implicitly voicing negative feelings.

 

 

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Much easier said than done as it can be a natural tendency to defend.

It is a matter of degree and frequency, some people do not want to build a bond, it is their way or the highway.  They may for a time change, say they are sorry, but that is just to keep things going.  Like a rubber band, they will snap back to the abusive behavior.  

  This is the abuse cycle, especially if there was excuses, promises to change, apologies but the abusive behavior doesn't stop.

One would think standing up to such people would make then change for the better, but it really doesn't.  The smart ones just change tactics, most just make more excuses or even escalate.  It does feel good though, just make sure it is safe.

Sadly, you can try to work with the person to change the dynamic, give them a chance or two, but at some point there needs to be accountability, consequences.  For many such abusive people having a row with them is reinforcement, they thrive on such drama and it gives them a ready excuse to blame you for their behavior (they love to reverse cause and effect).

In my opinion how you stop being a doormat is to leave the relationship.

 

Thank you so much for this^ SG. 

[Ruby Slippers]

39 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I'm so sick of "making nice" (gently dousing the flame) every time my partner acts like a shyt. 

I don't think it ever helps to respond with anger and inflamed emotions. But you need to address this, or the resentment is just going to build up and eventually explode.

I heard a tip from a counselor... when a person treats you or talks to you in a way that isn't acceptable, you calmly reply something like, "I don't allow anyone to treat me/speak to me that way." Then walk away and take whatever time you need to cool off, and don't engage again until he sincerely apologizes for the bad behavior. 

The idea here is that you know exactly where your boundaries are and are fully prepared to walk away If he keeps violating them.  

People who have difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries (too nice) tend to attract people who have a way of pushing and stepping on boundaries. It's like their ego gets a little win every time they successfully steamroll you. You accept the aggression, and your resentment just keeps building up. So you have to be firm and consistent in maintaining your boundaries.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Ruby Slippers

[dramafreezone]

Maybe this guy has anger issues.

I don't know if people will be offended by what I'm about to say, but there are some qualities inherent to genders.  I believe men are supposed to be calm, cool and collected as a rule.  We're supposed to be the rock.

Women test all the time.  You all just do, unconciously (but sometimes intentionally) you test a man's strength.  If he has an insecurity, you'll unconsciously (or intentionally) poke at it.  Evolutionarily, this is for good reason, you want to make sure that this man's apparent strong behavior is not an act but it's true strength.  If he can't keep his cool with you saying something to him, how will he keep his cool in a real crisis?  You want someone that will be an asset when real crisis hits, not someone that will lose his mind.

If this guy is getting angry, then he's failing your tests.  What anger is is a re-empowering emotion.  It's a response to something that we feel has disempowered or made us to feel inferior in some way.  He wants that current situation to be what he wants, and at that moment he is powerless to make it that, so he lashes out.  If he were calm, cool and collected, or in other words in true control, he could diffuse the situation and get it back to what he wants it to be.  I'm not saying that you aren't in any way to blame because you didn't really provide any details, but the reality is that shouldn't matter.  This guy is failing to control his emotions, why I think is just not congruent with being a strong man.  He needs to work on that.

Since he can't do this right now, you have to be the rock, the calm cool and collected one.  You can't feed into it or fight fire with fire.  From what you said, being the calm one is not in your natural essesce because right now you have the strong urge to go back at him with more emotion.  Maybe the only way that you two will make it work is that you permanently assume the role of the rock.

Edited January 17, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

22 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't think it ever helps to respond with anger and inflamed emotions. But you need to address this, or the resentment is just going to build up and eventually explode.

I heard a tip from a counselor... when a person treats you or talks to you in a way that isn't acceptable, you calmly reply something like, "I don't allow anyone to treat me/speak to me that way." Then walk away and take whatever time you need to cool off, and don't engage again until he sincerely apologizes for the bad behavior. 

The idea here is that you know exactly where your boundaries are and are fully prepared to walk away If he keeps violating them.  

People who have difficulty establishing and maintaining boundaries (too nice) tend to attract people who have a way of pushing and stepping on boundaries. It's like their ego gets a little win every time they successfully steamroll you. You accept the aggression, and your resentment just keeps building up. So you have to be firm and consistent in maintaining your boundaries.

Thanks Ruby, maybe later I will share what happened, but that's what I did.  I told him how he spoke to me  (speaks to me sometimes) is not acceptable to me, that I was angry and for now leaving to visit P (my brother) which is where I am now.  

I am so hurt, angry, PISSED, right now, I think it's been a been a build up and me shoving things down (my typical MO) so that's on me for sure.  

But him too, he can be very sensitive and reads into things I do that aren't there.

For example, did you read my thread about me closing the windows at 5:00 a.m. to not wake our rude neighbors who are never as courteous to us, and he got super angry at me feeling that by doing that, I was disrespecting HIM because they were rude to him.

He said some unkind things to me, but as per usual, I tried to understand his side, made nice, doused the flame. 

What did that teach him?  That his behaviour was ok, that he calls the shots, and I'm a doormat! 😳

Edited January 17, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Maybe this guy has anger issues.

I don't know if people will be offended by what I'm about to say, but there are some qualities inherent to genders.  I believe men are supposed to be calm, cool and collected as a rule.  We're supposed to be the rock.

Women test all the time.  You all just do, unconciously (but sometimes intentionally) you test a man's strength.  If he has an insecurity, you'll unconsciously (or intentionally) poke at it.  Evolutionarily, this is for good reason, you want to make sure that this man's apparent strong behavior is not an act but it's true strength.  If he can't keep his cool with you saying something to him, how will he keep his cool in a real crisis?  You want someone that will be an asset when real crisis hits, not someone that will lose his mind.

If this guy is getting angry, then he's failing your tests.  What anger is is a re-empowering emotion.  It's a response to something that we feel has disempowered or made us to feel inferior in some way.  He wants that current situation to be what he wants, and at that moment he is powerless to make it that, so he lashes out.  If he were calm, cool and collected, or in other words in true control, he could diffuse the situation and get it back to what he wants it to be.  I'm not saying that you aren't in any way to blame because you didn't really provide any details, but the reality is that shouldn't matter.  This guy is failing to control his emotions, why I think is just not congruent with being a strong man.  He needs to work on that.

Since he can't do this right now, you have to be the rock, the calm cool and collected one.  You can't feed into it or fight fire with fire.  From what you said, being the calm one is not in your natural essesce because right now you have the strong urge to go back at him with more emotion.  Maybe the only way that you two will make it work is that you permanently assume the role of the rock.

I will have to think about this, testing his strength. If I do, it's not intentional, or is it?  Unconsciously like you said. 

Might be something to it.

Thanks.  

[Ruby Slippers]

Yes, I just looked at your other thread. I remember that. 

Your relationship dynamic sounds very similar to the one in my last relationship. I was too nice all along. After our first big argument, I told him it was getting exhausting to have to constantly state and repeat and actively reinforce boundaries that he kept trying to push and steamroll over, and could he be more sensitive to and considerate of my wants and needs so I could relax a little? He tried, and he got a little better, but fundamentally the dynamic never changed. 

I think at the core he's simply not a sensitive, considerate, thoughtful person and never will be. He's more like a brute - rigid, firm, unbending. Your guy may be the same.

Personally, this combined with other issues drained all the romance out of it for me. Hopefully yours isn't so far gone and you can figure out ways to handle it. But don't put up with any steamrolling. It's not going to do you any good and you don't deserve it.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

I will have to think about this, testing his strength. If I do, it's not intentional, or is it?  Unconsciously like you said. 

Might be something to it.

Thanks.  

Just think of a "test" something you say or do, and his resultant behavior either raises or lowers your attraction to him.  Men have their own "tests."

If during this encounter, he was calm, cool and collected, would you have found that to have been attractive and a positive reaction?  You'd probably say I like the way he handled that.  Obviously you found him lashing out to be unacceptable.

[poppyfields]

51 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Just think of a "test" something you say or do, and his resultant behavior either raises or lowers your attraction to him.  Men have their own "tests."

If during this encounter, he was calm, cool and collected, would you have found that to have been attractive and a positive reaction?  You'd probably say I like the way he handled that.  Obviously you found him lashing out to be unacceptable.

Tbh and knowing myself, if he were always calm, cool, collected, in a relationship, I might find that boring and unchallenging.  Too fatherly (like my own father was).  

When he gets angry and emotionally expresses, it does cause me to respect him in a way, that he's not acquiescing to me, catering to my moods and being a doormat.

But on the other hand, it causes quite a lot of anguish for me because I'm a good, loyal girlfriend and I always try to have his back.  Which he sometimes misinterprets and then gets angry.  

This is probably one for the shrinks but growing up my dad was always calm cool, patient, while my mom was over-reactive, emotional, and often felt I was being disrespectful.

For example, when I was 8, I was reading a book she disapproved of (Rosemary's Baby), I couldn't stop reading and she took it away and tossed it in the garbage.  Told me in an angry way she did not want me reading it. Period.  

I fetched it from the garbage anyway, and continued reading.  She discovered from our neighbor I did that, and omg, she punished me so bad for that, telling me to NEVER disrespect her like that again!

Whereas my dad would have calmly sat me down and explained why I was too young to be reading it.  

Just one example, there were many many others. 

Needless to say, I walked on eggshells with my mom forever striving to gain her approval.  

So now as an adult I bring those two dichotomies to my relationships and torn between wanting a man to be calm and patient like my dad BUT feeling attraction to emotional, reactive men like my mom.

I'm f*cked. 

Thanks for your help though, it's causing me to have a good think about things. 

I may be better off alone, don't know.  

I applied to and got accepted to Brooklyn Law School last year, but put it off to focus on our relationship and then covid happened.

May have a rethink about that as well. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

Well, every relationship needs balance.  No guy is going to be perfectly balanced with just the right amount of everything you want from him so it's just a matter of finding the one that's the most balanced (in your eyes). 

I think we talked about this in another thread, but control can be mistaken for strength, where in reality it's born out of insecurity.   This man of yours wants you to see things his way, and obviously sometimes that's not going to be the case.  I think the person that's strong says, "I respect that you have an opinion.  I disagree, this is what I believe and we can agree to disagree on this one."  The guy with control issues is going to get angry.  I think even if you like it now, it probably gets old after 10, 20, 30 years of it, to the point to where you have to walk on eggshells around this person because they can't control their temper.

To use an extreme example, those that physically abuse other people are not acquiesing to the abused party.  Does that mean the way they show dissent is to be respected? There's healthy ways to handle disagreement and still stand your ground.

Hope you get something out of this thread.  Good luck.

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

Tbh and knowing myself, if he were always calm, cool, collected, in a relationship, I might find that boring and unchallenging.  Too fatherly (like my own father was).  

When he gets angry and emotionally expresses, it does cause me to respect him in a way, that he's not acquiescing to me, catering to my moods and being a doormat.

But on the other hand, it causes quite a lot of anguish for me because I'm a good, loyal girlfriend and I always try to have his back.  Which he sometimes misinterprets and then gets angry.  

This is probably one for the shrinks but growing up my dad was always calm cool, patient, while my mom was over-reactive, emotional, and often felt I was being disrespectful.

For example, when I was 8, I was reading a book she disapproved of (Rosemary's Baby), I couldn't stop reading and she took it away and tossed it in the garbage.  Told me in an angry way she did not want me reading it. Period.  

I fetched it from the garbage anyway, and continued reading.  She discovered from our neighbor I did that, and omg, she punished me so bad for that, telling me to NEVER disrespect her like that again!

Whereas my dad would have calmly sat me down and explained why I was too young to be reading it.  

Just one example, there were many many others. 

Needless to say, I walked on eggshells with my mom forever striving to gain her approval.  

So now as an adult I bring those two dichotomies to my relationships and torn between wanting a man to be calm and patient like my dad BUT feeling attraction to emotional, reactive men like my mom.

I'm f*cked. 

Thanks for your help though, it's causing me to have a good think about things. 

I may be better off alone, don't know.  

I applied to and got accepted to Brooklyn Law School last year, but put it off to focus on our relationship and then covid happened.

May have a rethink about that as well. 

 

 

Speaking of literature, your situation reminds me of that married couple in Hemingway's short story, "A Cat in the Rain." She wants a baby. Her husband doesn't. They're at a hotel in Spain and it's raining. She notices a cat underneath a green iron table, trying to shield itself from the rain. She decides she's going to rescue the cat so she tells her husband where she's going, and he's dismissive of her b/c he could care less. He's reading his newspaper what does he care.

She goes down to the hotel lobby and their room maid puts an umbrella over her head while she walks outside in the rain to search for the wet cat. Only, the cat has disappeared from the table she saw it hiding under. She goes back inside and tells her husband that she wants a cat, she wants to stop their transient travel vacations and stay at home, have a baby and a cat. They argue about their different reasons for getting married and what each of them wanted when they married each other: he wanted a wife who would follow him on his worldly vacations due to his line of work. She wanted to make a home in one place and raise a family. 

The cat is a metaphor for the baby the wife wants, but out of her reach b/c her husband refuses to participate in making a baby together. The hotel setting is transient, symbolic of their relationship. They're in between stability and instability. Will they stop traveling? Will they settle down and raise a family? The reader is left to ponder this. 

Your thread made me think of that short story b/c it sounds to me, like you and your fiance have different agendas for being in your relationship, which is being expressed through these petty arguments you have with each other; he wants you to get up early to close the windows. You want him to respect your feelings when you two are in the midst of a conflict, but his passive aggressive "my way or the highway approach" to your "douse a fire with some water" approach clashes. 

I think you need to examine this relationship and whether or not you're wiling to marry a guy who isn't going to change for you (or anyone). He is who he is. He wants to be the passive aggressive dominate person in this relationship. Your feelings don't matter to him in the way that you deserve them to. 

You are, in essence, re-enacting your parents' own marriage dynamic here: you are like your father (calm and patient cool headed one) and your fiance is like your mother (over-reactive, cruel, domineering). Do you really want to marry your mother, so to speak? Because that's who you are in a relationship with right now. Your boyfriend's personality traits reflect your mother's. It's what you grew up with. So, it's pretty natural, that you would be drawn to a romantic partner who reflects the relationship dynamics you were raised with between your mother and father. We tend to repeat our parents' marriage dynamic. Basic psychology. 

He's being an ass right now. Time to put your foot down and give him some boundaries. When he chooses to act the way he does with you when conflict arises, you will leave and not come back until you're ready. 

In your story, law school is your "cat." It's unreachable because your fiance came into the picture and you chose to ignore your path to pursue him. And, maybe he won't let you pursue law school while you're with him. 

Maybe time to rethink your path. 

Frankly, I'd choose law school and would dump the ass. But that's just me. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Watercolors

[Lotsgoingon]

This one is slightly tricky because you're tempted to either yell back or skip to "explain why you're angry."

Instead of yelling in attack mode, as in lashing back at her, what you want to do is yell out "No!" No, as in lashing out at me this way is not acceptable. I won't listen to this. You have to firmly (even loudly and angrily) insist that she stop without attacking her. Let the anguish on your face show--you do need to show her that you're upset, even angry. But don't go in attack mode beyond saying "No"

You can even say, you will walk out of the house when she does this. There is no obligation to listen to her lashing out. But you have to set the boundary. 

Then later, you can say something along the lines of what you positively expect. If you've got a problem with something I do, I expect you to point out the problem reasonably close to when it occurs and to do so with some respect. And if you bring it up later, I still expect you to talk to me without name calling or whatever it is she does. I don't lash out at you when I'm angry. I won't allow you to lash out at me.

Resist trying to solve her problem beyond setting your expectations. She needs to figure out what's going on and take action to drop this destructive pattern. 

Let yourself show your pain, your sadness, your sense of betrayal, even anger. But don't go on the attack. When you express what's acceptable, you want to say that calmly as you can.

So her method of getting angry is destructive. It's as destructive as the problem that allegedly made her angry. In fact, this lashing out is probably more destructive, because it undermines the basic framework of trust and safety and problem solving you need to develop as a couple. She's also using anger to get the courage to confront you. That's on her. You don't want to be with someone who lacks the basic courage to speak about what's bothering them.

Notice, you don't justify your behavior in this. You're saying "No, in this relationship, here's how I expect us to express our pain and disagreements." 

Only respond to the substance of her lashing out (the specific stuff she's complaining about) when she calms down and speaks to you with respect. Do not address that before she backs down.  

 

 

[lana-banana]

"Angrily lashing out or acting out" is not something you want to see in a committed relationship partner. It's one thing to be occasionally passive-aggressive and snitty, but it's not okay to lash out in an attempt to hurt someone, and it is never okay to be unkind. That's destructive. It does dramatic long-term damage to your relationship.

When you are really mad---really, really, really mad, so mad you can't think straight---you tell your partner you're leaving for a bit and go for a walk around the block. Maybe you get a cup of tea or a beer somewhere (well, pre-COVID anyway). You settle your thoughts and come back, hold hands, say "I'm sorry" and "When you X, I Y." You talk things out and even if you're still mad, you realize you didn't need to be that mad. We have only had about 3 such arguments that were this intense, and every time when we came back to talk I discovered things weren't as terrible or clear-cut as I thought. And we eventually muddled to a solution together.

Everybody gets angry sometimes, but you can't ever turn that anger on your partner. The mature thing to do is remove yourself for a brief period to clear your head. I would not be able to stay in a relationship with a partner who deliberately tried to hurt me.

[elaine567]

Go to law school and forget about dousing the fires this guy keeps starting.
Before you know it, you will be walking on eggshells, desperately trying to not upset him, trying to predict what will set him off, so you can avoid the fall out.
Continually dousing the flames is frustrating and upsetting and ultimately futile.
He explodes, you pick up the pieces and pander to him.. What's not to like FOR HIM?
He gets his own way, punishes you at the same time and you absorb it all as if it never happened - no consequences.
Fantastic
He lets rip at you, he feels so much better and you are left with a sour taste in your mouth.
Yes you can fight fire with fire but as that is not in your nature then you will still be unhappy. 
Peace ,may be "boring", but at least you can sleep at night and you can lose that knot in your stomach...
You are already trying to excuse him and blaming yourself, like most abused women do.
Stop it.

Listen to @Watercolors, she is right.

Edited January 17, 2021 by elaine567

[elaine567]

14 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

So her method of getting angry is destructive.

poppyfields is a woman and her "angry" SO is a man.

Edited January 17, 2021 by elaine567

[poppyfields]

53 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Speaking of literature, your situation reminds me of that married couple in Hemingway's short story, "A Cat in the Rain." She wants a baby. Her husband doesn't. They're at a hotel in Spain and it's raining. She notices a cat underneath a green iron table, trying to shield itself from the rain. She decides she's going to rescue the cat so she tells her husband where she's going, and he's dismissive of her b/c he could care less. He's reading his newspaper what does he care.

She goes down to the hotel lobby and their room maid puts an umbrella over her head while she walks outside in the rain to search for the wet cat. Only, the cat has disappeared from the table she saw it hiding under. She goes back inside and tells her husband that she wants a cat, she wants to stop their transient travel vacations and stay at home, have a baby and a cat. They argue about their different reasons for getting married and what each of them wanted when they married each other: he wanted a wife who would follow him on his worldly vacations due to his line of work. She wanted to make a home in one place and raise a family. 

The cat is a metaphor for the baby the wife wants, but out of her reach b/c her husband refuses to participate in making a baby together. The hotel setting is transient, symbolic of their relationship. They're in between stability and instability. Will they stop traveling? Will they settle down and raise a family? The reader is left to ponder this. 

Your thread made me think of that short story b/c it sounds to me, like you and your fiance have different agendas for being in your relationship, which is being expressed through these petty arguments you have with each other; he wants you to get up early to close the windows. You want him to respect your feelings when you two are in the midst of a conflict, but his passive aggressive "my way or the highway approach" to your "douse a fire with some water" approach clashes. 

I think you need to examine this relationship and whether or not you're wiling to marry a guy who isn't going to change for you (or anyone). He is who he is. He wants to be the passive aggressive dominate person in this relationship. Your feelings don't matter to him in the way that you deserve them to. 

You are, in essence, re-enacting your parents' own marriage dynamic here: you are like your father (calm and patient cool headed one) and your fiance is like your mother (over-reactive, cruel, domineering). Do you really want to marry your mother, so to speak? Because that's who you are in a relationship with right now. Your boyfriend's personality traits reflect your mother's. It's what you grew up with. So, it's pretty natural, that you would be drawn to a romantic partner who reflects the relationship dynamics you were raised with between your mother and father. We tend to repeat our parents' marriage dynamic. Basic psychology. 

He's being an ass right now. Time to put your foot down and give him some boundaries. When he chooses to act the way he does with you when conflict arises, you will leave and not come back until you're ready. 

In your story, law school is your "cat." It's unreachable because your fiance came into the picture and you chose to ignore your path to pursue him. And, maybe he won't let you pursue law school while you're with him. 

Maybe time to rethink your path. 

Frankly, I'd choose law school and would dump the ass. But that's just me. 

Omg, thank you!!!   We've had our moments but you sure do come though when it counts - big virtual hug WC. Wow. 

I'm gonna read Hemingway's story too, it sounds familiar, I may have already.

Other than him wanting me to wake early to close windows (he was actually angry AF that I closed the windows lol) everything you wrote was spot on.

My therapist once asked me the same, do you want to marry your mother?  That I am trying to fix the relationship I never had with her, through him.

My last previous boyfriend (long term ex) was the same!  

Thanks again, lots to think about. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by poppyfields

[Lotsgoingon]

Apologies for the brain fart @poppyfields. I screwed up the genders, but the same point still applies. Sorry about that. 

 

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

"Angrily lashing out or acting out" is not something you want to see in a committed relationship partner. It's one thing to be occasionally passive-aggressive and snitty, but it's not okay to lash out in an attempt to hurt someone, and it is never okay to be unkind. That's destructive. It does dramatic long-term damage to your relationship.

When you are really mad---really, really, really mad, so mad you can't think straight---you tell your partner you're leaving for a bit and go for a walk around the block. Maybe you get a cup of tea or a beer somewhere (well, pre-COVID anyway). You settle your thoughts and come back, hold hands, say "I'm sorry" and "When you X, I Y." You talk things out and even if you're still mad, you realize you didn't need to be that mad. We have only had about 3 such arguments that were this intense, and every time when we came back to talk I discovered things weren't as terrible or clear-cut as I thought. And we eventually muddled to a solution together.

Everybody gets angry sometimes, but you can't ever turn that anger on your partner. The mature thing to do is remove yourself for a brief period to clear your head. I would not be able to stay in a relationship with a partner who deliberately tried to hurt me.

That's precisely what I did, yay for me?  (See previous post).

I told him the way he was speaking to me was unacceptable, and that I was leaving, and took a taxi to my brother's.  I don't have a car.  It was a peaceful ride.

[Watercolors]

2 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

My therapist once asked me the same, do you want to marry your mother?  That I am trying to fix the relationship I never had with her, through him.

Give your therapist a raise! She's spot on! You are trying to fix your broken relationship with your mother, through your romantic relationships. 

Question: is your mother still alive? If she is, are you two estranged? Have you ever considered trying to repair that relationship? Or, is it so toxic, that staying estranged is better for you both? If it's better to stay away from your mother if she is alive, you will have to find a way to repair the emotional trauma yourself, so that you can stop repeating this dysfunctional pattern with men like your fiance. It's the only way to end this trauma. You have to confront it yourself, with your therapist, and find a way to get closure and heal so that you can be with a healthier man (like your father) who you won't have to walk on eggshells around. Easier said then done, but awareness is the first step. 

Dump your fiance. Just my two cents. Law school is SO MUCH better for your path then being with a toxic male who is going to snuff out your internal flame with his toxicity. Do NOT be like the wife in Hemingway's short story. Be your own advocate. There are better men out there. And a law degree and career waiting for you. Go get it!

Yes, you and I have had our moments here for sure, but we always get over it, right? LOL