[UPDATE] Fight Fire With Fire? or Gentle Douse of Water?

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

  As punishment she cut off my long blonde hair which at the time was down to my waste (she cut it to my chin), and locking me in a very small closet for like three hours. 

I lost my breath when reading this! I am so sorry. 

Is your fiancé regularly giving you the silent treatment?

 

[poppyfields]

31 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I lost my breath when reading this! I am so sorry. 

Is your fiancé regularly giving you the silent treatment?

No he never has before because this is the first time I have stuck up for myself and NOT acquiesced to him.  Typically, when he snapped at me (no nasty name calling or anything like that but it still made me feel bad), I let it roll off, it was normal to me as dysfunctional as that sounds.  I suppose because my mom was always getting mad at me for one thing or another so it was familiar, normal.  I actually respected him for it, as crazy as THAT sounds!  I associated it with strength.  Versus other men who would let me walk over them.

The very first time he snapped was about a year into our relationship (if I am remembering it correctly), I opened the door to his dark room while he was in there developing prints and he angrily snapped at me.   I am so embarrassed now for even telling y'all this but that evening, I went into the kitchen where he was cooking dinner, and I said "are we friends again"?  And he smiled, gave me a kiss and all was well.  

That was our typical dynamic.

I posted this incident on another forum, and virtually all the posters told me I did the right thing!!   By essentially "making nice."  But you know what?  Even back then, I knew it didn't feel right, that your partner is not supposed to speak to you that way.  That's why I started the thread (on the other forum) because I knew what he did wasn't right  But the other posters all had me convinced I did the right thing, to pick my battles blah blah.

Anyway, this was the first time I didn't do that.   I left the house to stay with my brother. Not sure what came over me but I guess I sort of woke up and realized that no, this is NOT right.  This is not how it's supposed to be!  

It was like a lightbulb suddenly went off in my head and I was like NO, not tolerating that BS anymore.  

You know we recently got engaged and I wonder if it was my late dad watching over me, silently sending me some sort of message from wherever he is saying "this is wrong, do NOT marry this man."  I actually believe in all that as hokey as it sounds.

Anyway, I am kind of done.   And it really is THIS sudden.  I think he knows it too which is why he doesn't want to talk.  My guess is he thinks the longer he stays away, I will begin to miss him and want to "make nice" again.

NOT gonna happen.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

@poppyfields

From reading your last post, it would appear as though you put up with too much from your fiancè initially, to keep the peace.  You didn't speak up when you should have, which enabled his poor treatment of you. 

We teach people how we want to be treated by the behavior which we're willing to accept.  Unfortunately some people take time to make sense of a situation and be certain of how they wish to proceed.

So, please, correct me if I'm wrong with what I'm about to say, because I may have missed something along the way... 

It seems like you have never corrected his behavior in the past.  It appears as though you put up with it and let it quietly stew until such time that you could no longer put up with it and you simply left, without saying a word.

We all handle confrontation differently.  Some people just cannot handle confronting situations.  Perhaps you felt as though it was pointless confronting your fiancè about anything because he was too rigid and inflexible to change?

I'm not passing judgement, just trying to make sense of what's happened here.  Nor am I justifying anything your fiancè has done, but is there a chance that he genuinely has no idea why you're upset/angry at him, but he's too arrogant/stubborn to concede and offer up an olive branch?

I'm not suggesting that leaving him isn't the right thing to do, as it sounds like you guys are incompatible.  However, I'm suggesting, right or wrong, that your fiancè may not realize how much he's hurt you over such a period of time, and if you leave him for good he could be completely blind-sided by it?

The importance of good communication in a relationship can never be underestimated.

[Ruby Slippers]

I totally relate to this dynamic. I was "too nice" to my ex in part because I thought nobody's perfect, I should compromise, he has good qualities, too. Like you, I had an abusive parent (dad), and though I've come a long way in developing my self-worth and backbone, I think it's typical that people with abuse in their background have a hard time drawing lines around behavior that is and is not OK.

I did gradually start setting boundaries and getting more expressive about my feelings... but it's not easy to change a relationship dynamic once established. A couple of relatively minor incidents toward the end just pushed me over the edge. I just couldn't take it anymore. 

[Watercolors]

23 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I'm not passing judgement, just trying to make sense of what's happened here.  Nor am I justifying anything your fiancè has done, but is there a chance that he genuinely has no idea why you're upset/angry at him, but he's too arrogant/stubborn to concede and offer up an olive branch?

Trail Blazer, there's a conversational rule that applies: when someone starts a sentence with a contradiction, it's to reverse psychology the recipient. If you weren't passing judgment and you weren't justifying anything,  you would not need to state that you weren't. The word I'm thinking of is...facetious. 

When I read your post, I do think you mean to pass judgement on poppyfields, and I do think you do mean to justify poppy's fiance's actions. Otherwise, why the announcement that you aren't doing either? 

23 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

We teach people how we want to be treated by the behavior which we're willing to accept.  Unfortunately some people take time to make sense of a situation and be certain of how they wish to proceed.

This is where you pass judgement on poppyfields. But you said you wouldn't do that. 

23 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I'm suggesting, right or wrong, that your fiancè may not realize how much he's hurt you over such a period of time, and if you leave him for good he could be completely blind-sided by it?

And here is where you justify poppyfield's fiance's actions. But you said you wouldn't do that. 

Poppyfields, I hope that you are back with your brother, where you can be in a safe emotional space during this stressful time with your fiance. Please keep us updated on what you decided to do. And congratulations again, on enrolling in summer pre-law courses. 

[Trail Blazer]

6 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Trail Blazer, there's a conversational rule that applies: when someone starts a sentence with a contradiction, it's to reverse psychology the recipient. If you weren't passing judgment and you weren't justifying anything,  you would not need to state that you weren't. The word I'm thinking of is...facetious. 

When I read your post, I do think you mean to pass judgement on poppyfields, and I do think you do mean to justify poppy's fiance's actions. Otherwise, why the announcement that you aren't doing either? 

With all due respect, you're way off the mark here.  I've made certain observations from the limited amount of information poppy has disclosed. 

I'm fully aware that I don't have all the facts, which is why I've stated what have currently managed to ascertain, in the hope that poppy will clarify and/or elaborate further.

I can tell you now that it's impossible for me to pass judgement when I don't have all the facts.  I've made a preliminary observation, but wanted to make it clear that I was not judging.

Judgement comes with quite negative connotations.  I do not believe that I have judged for the reasons stated above.  I do, howeve, feel that you are projecting in this instance.

17 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

 This is where you pass judgement on poppyfields. But you said you wouldn't do that. 

I wasn't judging, I was stating a fact.  I don't know for certain that poppy hasn't ever corrected her fiancès' actions in the past, but it appears as though that has been the case from what I've been able to gather.

My comment was food for thought.  Unfortunately many people learn the hard way that without corrective action, things that go unchecked rarely ever change on their own.

Poppy has said herself many times that she lets things go to keep the peace.  My observation is that her fiancè behaves the way he does because poppy hasn't corrected this behavior. 

I'm not judging her, nor am I justifying his behavior.  I'm simply stating how I see the situation as having played out.  And, if I am indeed correct, there's absolutely no justification for poppy's fiancè having taken advantage of her good nature/difficulty dealing with confrontation!

24 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

 And here is where you justify poppyfield's fiance's actions. But you said you wouldn't do that. 

How have I justified anything he's done.  I'm simply stating my opinion, that the guy probably doesn't even know half of what he's done wrong!  Ignorance is not an excuse, but it's a reason! 

If one is conducting a route-cause analysis to determine all of the factors which have contributed to the outcome of a situation, generally you report all the factors that contributed towards the outcome, not just the ones that suit you.

All I'm trying to do is help poppy make sense of her situation.  I'm honestly pretty bewildered by how you've managed to twist my post around so much to fit some narrative that doesn't exist.

 

[LivingWaterPlease]

Poppyfields, it seems to me one way to get respect from the get go is to hold off on having sex  until you've been with you SO long enough to learn whether not he or she is going to treat you with respect long term.

When either a man or woman takes things slowly, not being gamey, but genuinely assessing the other person as to if it's someone they want to give their heart and/or body to, I believe it demands respect. Sure, some will drop you fast if you don't give it up. No loss, IMO.

I know there are many who don't subscribe to this way of thinking/behaving but it's another perspective and worth some thought.

[Fletch Lives]

Fighting usually leads to worse stuff. Always better to try talking things out first.

Edited January 29, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed inappropriate comment.

[Gaeta]

10 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Poppyfields, it seems to me one way to get respect from the get go is to hold off on having sex  until you've been with you SO long enough to learn whether not he or she is going to treat you with respect long term.

Yes and no. 

There are people out there capable of maintaining a facade for a very long time, sometimes as long as 5  years. 

I think the very first time someone lacks respect toward you it needs to be nipped in the butt right away. A simple 'I will not be talked to on that tone, if this is who you are then we are over'. Usually these people show their true color early in the relationship, first time he used an agressive tone with poppy I am sure it was early on before they moved in together. 

[Miss Spider]

11 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Poppyfields, it seems to me one way to get respect from the get go is to hold off on having sex  until you've been with you SO long enough to learn whether not he or she is going to treat you with respect long term.

When either a man or woman takes things slowly, not being gamey, but genuinely assessing the other person as to if it's someone they want to give their heart and/or body to, I believe it demands respect. Sure, some will drop you fast if you don't give it up. No loss, IMO.

I know there are many who don't subscribe to this way of thinking/behaving but it's another perspective and worth some thought.

 I don’t see how sex has anything to do with this at all. there are people married to people for decades and find out this stuff. I think it’s less a case of not being able to garner respect from a particular person and more a case of not being able to see clear signs of disrespect early on and know where hard lines should probably be drawn. It’s easy enough for us as outsiders on message boards to see dysfunction, but it’s a lot harder for the person in the relationship. Not everyone is 100% bad or and disrespectful. These are only pieces. So it’s very difficult to know sometimes, (especially if you have had a dysfunctional upbringing, but certainly not limited to that) what ought to be tolerated and accepted and what shouldn’t be.. No one can tell someone this. The person really has to come to the conclusion themselves that they want to do better and that they can do better and that they don’t want that anymore. Hopefully sooner rather than later

Edited January 27, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

Thank you shortskirts, this is exactly right, I thought it was normal!  

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but our dynamic even turned me on in a way, like a dom/sub type of thing.  I associated his behaviour with strength.  

I never considered it abuse per se, he never used derogatory language and if he had, I definitely would NOT have stayed.  That was my boundary. 

So to answer your question TB, no I never "corrected" him because in my mind, there was nothing to correct, again to me it was normal.  

I suppose in analyzing it now, my childhood was so full of chaos, mental and emotional chaos, it was familiar and I was drawn to those types of men and relationships.  

I also wonder too, going back to what dramafreeze posted about me testing his stength, his boundaries.  There might have been a little of that going on too if I'm honest.  

BUT I was torn because there was another part of me that knew it was wrong, not how things were supposed to be! 

In short, I became attracted to him and fell in love with him because he possessed qualities like my mom, but in the end rejected him for NOT being like my dad!  

Or will be.  He messaged me last night, he is out of town until Friday so we will meet and talk Friday night and I'm going to end it.  

I am not blaming him, I don't feel he did anything "wrong," this was our dynamic, a dynamic we created together.  I understand that now. 

But I've changed, or changing, and I need to be on my own for awhile and sort myself out cause I cannot keep getting into long term relationships like this.

Quickly rejecting men who are kind, cerebral, and low key (like my dad) and attracted to men who are emotional and volatile (like my mum). 

I am recalling a thread many years ago on a different forum wherein posters were discussing emojis and men using emojis.  

We were discussing favorites and I'm remembering now saying that my favorite was the "angry" emoji.  I said it in a jokey way, but I was actually being quite serious, as screwed up as that sounds! 

Anyway, I don't want this for myself anymore, I need something different.  

Thank you all so much for helping me sort through and not judging me. 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LivingWaterPlease]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:16 AM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

 I don’t see how sex has anything to do with this at all. there are people married to people for decades and find out this stuff. I think it’s less a case of not being able to garner respect from a particular person and more a case of not being able to see clear signs of disrespect early on and know where hard lines should probably be drawn. It’s easy enough for us as outsiders on message boards to see dysfunction, but it’s a lot harder for the person in the relationship. Not everyone is 100% bad or and disrespectful. These are only pieces. So it’s very difficult to know sometimes, (especially if you have had a dysfunctional upbringing, but certainly not limited to that) what ought to be tolerated and accepted and what shouldn’t be.. No one can tell someone this. The person really has to come to the conclusion themselves that they want to do better and that they can do better and that they don’t want that anymore. Hopefully sooner rather than later

Understandable why you and many wouldn't see why sex has anything to do with it.

However, there are bonding hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin released while having sex.  Women are more sensitive to these hormones than men are, not that they don't affect men.

These same hormones are released during childbirth and breast feeding to promote a bond between mother and baby. They are very effective.

Seems to me it's wise to wait to have sex (IOW to bond) with someone until you have a track record of time spent together in order to know if you're going to be treated with respect or not.  That way you won't have bonded through sex emotionally. Although many people are alert to disrespect early on, some may need more time to sense their bf is treating them poorly.

Once you bond with a person it's not as easy to break off the relationship. Even if you have no problem doing so, to break that bond established with these hormones is going to cause a person more pain than had they not bonded.

Someone, I believe Gaeta, pointed out that many in long term relationships find someone they thought respected them has disrespected them because the person masked their behavior. I agree with this. However, it seems to me it still makes sense to wait to bond until after one's SO has demonstrated a pattern of respect over a long term.

Although you can't guarantee you'll never be disrespected, there are things you can do to lessen the chance of it happening. Seems to me one of those ways is to wait to have sex with someone.

I knew when I posted about it most probably wouldn't agree. But, if it matters to anyone at all and saves anyone pain, it's worth considering, IMO.

Edited January 29, 2021 by LivingWaterPlease

[LivingWaterPlease]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:54 AM, Gaeta said:

Yes and no. 

There are people out there capable of maintaining a facade for a very long time, sometimes as long as 5  years. 

I think the very first time someone lacks respect toward you it needs to be nipped in the butt right away. A simple 'I will not be talked to on that tone, if this is who you are then we are over'. Usually these people show their true color early in the relationship, first time he used an agressive tone with poppy I am sure it was early on before they moved in together. 

I agree with you on this, Gaeta. However, I do also believe that people often miss signs of disrespect early on that had they waited they could have avoided bonding (through hormones oxytocin and vasopressin released during sex that cause bonding) with someone through sex, thereby decreasing the pain of a break up. I know you were in a R with a man you believed was treating you wonderfully and my heart goes out to you on that. It does happen sometimes that folks who seem respectful are maintaining a facade. We've all seen it, for sure, and I know finding oneself betrayed can happen to anyone, unfortunately!

Here's something else to consider, though, that doesn't change what you posted. I do believe as you grow and heal from childhood wounds or even later inflicted wounds, you become more sensitive to recognizing small signs of disrespect you wouldn't have noticed before you healed from your own wounds.
 

[LivingWaterPlease]

17 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Although you can't guarantee you'll never be disrespected, there are things you can do to lessen the chance of it happening. Seems to me one of those ways is to wait to have sex with someone.

I knew when I posted about it most probably wouldn't agree. But, if it matters to anyone at all and saves anyone pain, it's worth considering, IMO.

It was too late to edit my post. The bolded above is not the thought I meant to convey. What I meant was, "Although you can't guarantee you'll never be disrespected, there are things you can do to lessen the chance of bonding before being betrayed." 

 

 

[poppyfields]

LivingWater, thanks for chiming in.  My ex or soon to be and I didn't have sex for approx 2 months (8-9 dates in).  Not that I didn't want to, I did, HE wanted to wait, to build the emotional connection first (which we did).   I've posted about this before. 

I never felt there was a lack of respect, well perhaps a few times, as did he. 

But in general no.  If I did, I would not have stayed.  I have boundaries.

He has a temper, he would become annoyed about trivial things, (not just towards me), occasionally he would harshly snap at me.  This last time was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. 

I had simply had enough.  I had shoved a lot of shyt down and last time he snapped, like I said, a lightbulb went off in my head and I was done.   That quick.

It was NOT just him, it was both of us, the dynamic that we created together. 

I may start a different thread because a few men here have asked, how could my girlfriend seem to be in love with me on Sunday, but Monday tell me it's over?  They're blindsided by it.

Well, it can happen "just like that."  That fast.

It took me two years to get over my long time ex, but now?  It's over.   I'm ready for something different.

School, new career, moving back to my home state where a few of my good friends live, something I've thought about for a long time. 

We will talk tonight.  I am hoping he feels the same.  I am preparing myself either way.  

Thanks again for your thoughts. 😄

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by poppyfields

[elaine567]

33 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

a few men here have asked, how could my girlfriend seem to be in love with me on Sunday, but Monday tell me it's over?  They're blindsided by it.

Well, it can happen "just like that."  That fast.

I agree it can happen that fast but it is usually due to a deal breaker or a last straw.
I guess few stable people are thinking "I love him sooo much" in the morning to have it all disappear by lunchtime for no reason, but a deal breaker or a last straw can extinguish love in an instant.
i also think that some women tend to go into "fake it till you make it" mode at the end, so she gives the impression she is all loved up when really she is almost out the door. She is hoping her loving act will turn into real feelings, but it usually doesn't. 

[poppyfields]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I agree it can happen that fast but it is usually due to a deal breaker or a last straw.

Agree, which is precisely what happened.  Last straw, lightbulb went off.  Done.  It took me by surprise too!  That my feelings seemed to change virtually overnight.

But I think what happened was I had shoved stuff down.  I felt pushed into marriage, and this may sound odd but realizing now I'm not cut out for LTRs, I'm too detached and independent for most men to deal.

Long story there due to my parents' extremely dysfunctional marriage and my experiences with my mom posted earlier. 

So time to focus on ME.  On my own, by myself.  I'm looking forward to it actually! 😂

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by poppyfields

[LivingWaterPlease]

3 hours ago, poppyfields said:

LivingWater, thanks for chiming in.  My ex or soon to be and I didn't have sex for approx 2 months (8-9 dates in).  Not that I didn't want to, I did, HE wanted to wait, to build the emotional connection first (which we did).   I've posted about this before. 

I never felt there was a lack of respect, well perhaps a few times, as did he. 

But in general no.  If I did, I would not have stayed.  I have boundaries.

He has a temper, he would become annoyed about trivial things, (not just towards me), occasionally he would harshly snap at me.  This last time was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. 

I had simply had enough.  I had shoved a lot of shyt down and last time he snapped, like I said, a lightbulb went off in my head and I was done.   That quick.

It was NOT just him, it was both of us, the dynamic that we created together. 

I may start a different thread because a few men here have asked, how could my girlfriend seem to be in love with me on Sunday, but Monday tell me it's over?  They're blindsided by it.

Well, it can happen "just like that."  That fast.

It took me two years to get over my long time ex, but now?  It's over.   I'm ready for something different.

School, new career, moving back to my home state where a few of my good friends live, something I've thought about for a long time. 

We will talk tonight.  I am hoping he feels the same.  I am preparing myself either way.  

Thanks again for your thoughts. 😄

 

You have really "been through it," Poppy! I'm so sorry.  I think a lot of us have shoved negative stuff down in relationships and then it seems to someone else that suddenly we're done when we can't take it anymore. Was just talking about that very thing with someone irl here. A friend group they're a part of has some weird stuff going on they've put up but the weird stuff has mushroomed and they're bailing from the group. It has taken the friend group by surprise. They can't understand it bc my friend had never voiced discomfort with the small things and had just put up with it.

As I told this young person, when you're seeing lots of little things (red flags) you're uncomfortable with is the time to deal with it or bail because it's only going to get worse. It's preferable to stand up for yourself unemotionally early on. Key is just stating facts when you first notice it instead of waiting until it's built up. But, I and many others have had to learn that. Some people are reared in an environment where they grow up that way so it's natural to deal with stuff early on. Lucky for them!

Good idea to start the thread!

Also, although I'm sorry you're going through this it seems great to me you've come to terms with it and are dealing with it.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Just now, LivingWaterPlease said:

You have really "been through it," Poppy! I'm so sorry.  I think a lot of us have shoved negative stuff down in relationships and then it seems to someone else that suddenly we're done when we can't take it anymore. Was just talking about that very thing with someone irl here. A friend group they're a part of has some weird stuff going on they've put up but the weird stuff has mushroomed and they're bailing from the group. It has taken the friend group by surprise. They can't understand it bc my friend had never voiced discomfort with the small things and had just put up with it.

As I told this young person, when you're seeing lots of little things (red flags) you're uncomfortable with is the time to deal with it or bail because it's only going to get worse. It's preferable to stand up for yourself unemotionally early on. Key is just stating facts (boundaries) when you first notice it instead of waiting until it's built up. In this instance here the person had found a place where they felt comforted and accepted emotionally while they realized their beliefs and practices were very different. I told them, "Don't sacrifice/deny your conscience (or beliefs)  in order to placate your emotions."

But, I and many others have had to learn that. Some people are reared in an environment where they grow up that way so it's natural to deal with stuff early on. Lucky for them!

Good idea to start the thread!

Also, although I'm sorry you're going through this it seems great to me you've come to terms with it and are dealing with it.

 

[poppyfields]

3 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

You have really "been through it," Poppy! I'm so sorry. 

Thank you LivingWater, but I'm good!  I promise you!   😂

Yes I have been through a lot of crap (who hasn't) but I have learned so much, become stronger for it.  
I was blessed with tons of resilience which gets me through, I have zero regrets about anything I have done or what others have done to me.

I mean that!  

About tonight, I am nervous as hell, I didn't sleep well last night and unable to eat, I am literally sitting here at my desk shaking!  I know it's going to be a difficult conversation.  Like I said, I hope he feels same way I do about ending it being for the best. 

I don't think he's been happy either.  Neither of us are easy people to be in relationships with, for different reasons.  We do the best we can, it's all a journey.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who chimed in!

Edited January 29, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

16 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Understandable why you and many wouldn't see why sex has anything to do with it.

However, there are bonding hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin released while having sex.  Women are more sensitive to these hormones than men are, not that they don't affect men.

These same hormones are released during childbirth and breast feeding to promote a bond between mother and baby. They are very effective.

Seems to me it's wise to wait to have sex (IOW to bond) with someone until you have a track record of time spent together in order to know if you're going to be treated with respect or not.  That way you won't have bonded through sex emotionally. Although many people are alert to disrespect early on, some may need more time to sense their bf is treating them poorly.

Once you bond with a person it's not as easy to break off the relationship. Even if you have no problem doing so, to break that bond established with these hormones is going to cause a person more pain than had they not bonded.

Someone, I believe Gaeta, pointed out that many in long term relationships find someone they thought respected them has disrespected them because the person masked their behavior. I agree with this. However, it seems to me it still makes sense to wait to bond until after one's SO has demonstrated a pattern of respect over a long term.

Although you can't guarantee you'll never be disrespected, there are things you can do to lessen the chance of it happening. Seems to me one of those ways is to wait to have sex with someone.

I knew when I posted about it most probably wouldn't agree. But, if it matters to anyone at all and saves anyone pain, it's worth considering, IMO.

Well sex may have something to do with bonding, there are clearly many other factors that go into bonding besides sex. It is quite curious you would pinpoint that in particular. Cuddling causes oxytocin. Looking into someone’s eyes. Just the thought of them. That is why you see people becoming super attached to people that they not only have not had sex with, but they barely even know at all.... So I don’t think that just because she held back on sex for three years, if she spent all that time with him it would be easy for her to walk away.... 
 

But that aside, again, my point is that I do not think this has anything to do with when the disrespect is noted (before sex, after sex, after marriage) it’s that the disrespect is not noted at all or it is noted and just ignored. It is seen as acceptable. I remember months back when poppy made a thread about this guy going off because of a blender being turned on or some thing. And it was just things like that that were not even seen as red flags. And that has nothing to do with sex at all. If a person cannot see disrespect or feels that it is OK or in some way tolerable, it really doesn’t matter when that happens, they’ll stay 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Miss Spider]

30 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Thank you LivingWater, but I'm good!  I promise you!   😂

Yes I have been through a lot of crap (who hasn't) but I have learned so much, become stronger for it.  
I was blessed with tons of resilience which gets me through, I have zero regrets about anything I have done or what others have done to me.

I mean that!  

About tonight, I am nervous as hell, I didn't sleep well last night and unable to eat, I am literally sitting here at my desk shaking!  I know it's going to be a difficult conversation.  Like I said, I hope he feels same way I do about ending it being for the best. 

I don't think he's been happy either.  Neither of us are easy people to be in relationships with, for different reasons.  We do the best we can, it's all a journey.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who chimed in!

Good luck, poppy.  Whatever happens, you’ll be all right🙏

[poppyfields]

17 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Well sex may have something to do with bonding, there are clearly many other factors that go into bonding besides sex. It is quite curious you would pinpoint that in particular. Cuddling causes oxytocin. Looking into someone’s eyes. Just the thought of them. That is why you see people becoming super attached to people that they not only have not had sex with, but they barely even know at all. So I don’t think that just because she held back on sex, if she spent three years with this man it would be easy for her to away.

But that aside, again, my point is that I do not think this has anything to do with when the disrespect is noted (before sex, after sex, after marriage) it’s that the disrespect is not noted at all or it is noted and just ignored. It is seen as acceptable. I remember months back when poppy made a thread about this guy going off because of a blender being turned on or some thing. And it was just things like that that were not even seen as red flags. And that has nothing to do with sex at all. If a person cannot see disrespect or feels that it is OK in someway and can be ignored, it really doesn’t matter when that happens. 

Once again, you are spot on shortskirts, EXCEPT to clarify he didn't go off at me about the blender being too loud, he went off on me because I shut the windows out of politeness to our neighbors (to not wake them while running the blender) and by doing that he felt I disrespected him because these neighbors were incredibly rude and obnoxious toward him, toward us.

Not that it matters now, just thought I'd clarify, he's not a total lunatic.

I know it's a cliche to say "it's me, not you" but in this case, I think a big part of it IS just me.  Ever since listening to the song by Judy Garland "On My Own," I have been thinking about it.  I've have been listening to it over and over ever since.  I quoted the lyrics earlier and it so defines where I'm at right now.

So when he snapped at me for encouraging him to speak to his terminally ill dad with whom he's been estranged for many years, that was it for me.  Just like that, DONE.  

Anyway, thanks, you've been a great support on this and all my threads, and I truly appreciate it!

Edited January 29, 2021 by poppyfields

[Ruby Slippers]

50 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Neither of us are easy people to be in relationships with, for different reasons.  We do the best we can, it's all a journey.

I relate to this, too. I even told my last boyfriend upfront that I have high standards in most things, can't put up with much BS, hence know I'm not the easiest person to be with. He said he didn't mind and could relate to a degree, as he's not interested in settling for something lukewarm, but also determined to go for the best.

It meant our relationship, while volatile, was very passionate, fun, just full of adventure and dazzling memories. 

Good luck with your talk. 

[LivingWaterPlease]

52 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Well sex may have something to do with bonding, there are clearly many other factors that go into bonding besides sex. It is quite curious you would pinpoint that in particular. Cuddling causes oxytocin. Looking into someone’s eyes. Just the thought of them. That is why you see people becoming super attached to people that they not only have not had sex with, but they barely even know at all.... So I don’t think that just because she held back on sex for three years, if she spent all that time with him it would be easy for her to walk away.... 
 

But that aside, again, my point is that I do not think this has anything to do with when the disrespect is noted (before sex, after sex, after marriage) it’s that the disrespect is not noted at all or it is noted and just ignored. It is seen as acceptable. I remember months back when poppy made a thread about this guy going off because of a blender being turned on or some thing. And it was just things like that that were not even seen as red flags. And that has nothing to do with sex at all. If a person cannot see disrespect or feels that it is OK or in some way tolerable, it really doesn’t matter when that happens, they’ll stay 

 

 

Good point about cuddling also being something that causes oxytocin to be released, though I'd done reading on release of it during intercourse, but not during cuddling.

This further leads one who is interested in guarding their heart to consider maybe not cuddling iF they are interested in guarding their hearts until they feel it's safe for their emotions.

I realize many are not concerned with guarding their hearts so this advice is not for them. If the shoe fits wear it kind of thing...if not, scroll on by!

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by LivingWaterPlease