Shouldn't be dating if one can't afford it. a gentleman doesn't mind feeding a lady.

[poppyfields]

7 minutes ago, Shining One said:

Nowhere did I imply that you fell into the latter category. I brought up the difference to highlight where the line is for me.

OK fair enough.

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

I am not the one who created this thread. I made a comment in another thread, and the mods decided to make it a topic in it's own thread. The best thing to do is to keep scrolling if you're tired of a particular topic. That's what I do.

I don't agree with much of what you post, but I must say that in this instance, I think the mods have done you a great disservice.

They've created a thread based on a comment you made within another thread.  Since there's been no context provided, it's made it look like you created the thread.

This is quite sloppy and I wouldn't be happy.

EDIT: context added to original post has been observed.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[poppyfields]

6 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I don't agree with much of what you post, but I must say that in this instance, I think the mods have done you a great disservice.

They've created a thread based on a comment you made within another thread.  Since there's been no context provided, it's made it look like you created the thread.

This is quite sloppy and I wouldn't be happy.

Same thing happened to me.  I have seen it happen on other forums as well.

I don't think it's right but pretty standard when they see a discussion spinning off the original topic.

Edited January 21, 2021 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Same thing happened to me.  I have seen it happen on other forums as well.

I don't think it's right but pretty standard when they see a discussion spinning off the original topic.

I've since re-read the original post (from when I last read it 24 hours ago) and observed that the mods have edited it to add context.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Trail Blazer

[poppyfields]

18 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I've since re-read the original post (from when I last read it 24 hours ago) and observed that the mods have edited it to add context.

 

That's encouraging. 😆

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, cleverusername said:

If I'm meeting someone I am not sure about looks wise, I always have a friend call me at a preset time that way I had an emergency and have an excuse to leave.

That's probably wise. It's not just looks, either. It doesn't really apply to me, but from what I understand, modern app-based dating is not for the faint of heart.

[poppyfields]

GeorgiaPeach, if you're around, I'd still like to know the answer to a question I asked earlier.

>>When you know you're not into him and won't be seeing him again, do you still feel comfortable with him paying?

No judgment either way, just curious.  

[neowulf]

I've been watching this situation play out over the last decade in the dating world.

I think there's a generation that's become pinned between two worlds and we're feeling the friction of the transition.

 

There are a generation of young people growing up with a simple axiom;

"Men and women are 100% equals.  Anything a man can do, a woman can do"

 

The natural extension of this belief is;

"If men and women are 100% equal, women don't get special treatment for being women".

This is proving difficult for a generation who haven't accepted they aren't entitled to special treatment, simply because of their gender.

[Trail Blazer]

3 minutes ago, neowulf said:

I've been watching this situation play out over the last decade in the dating world.

I think there's a generation that's become pinned between two worlds and we're feeling the friction of the transition.

 

There are a generation of young people growing up with a simple axiom;

"Men and women are 100% equals.  Anything a man can do, a woman can do"

 

The natural extension of this belief is;

"If men and women are 100% equal, women don't get special treatment for being women".

This is proving difficult for a generation who haven't accepted they aren't entitled to special treatment, simply because of their gender.

It's this exact conundrum which has spawned the term; "equality when it suits."

[neowulf]

1 minute ago, Trail Blazer said:

It's this exact conundrum which has spawned the term; "equality when it suits."

I am not without sympathy for the those in this situation.

It's nice to get preferential treatment.  Really nice.  People pay a lot of money to be treated with difference.

But just as men had to give up the notion of "The House Wife", so too will women have to give up the idea of "The Great Provider".

Yet, once that dependence on each other has been removed, I worry... what will make people want to stay together?

What purpose does a man serve in a woman's life?  Companionship?  They have their friends.  Sex?  Easier than ever if they're open to it.

Look at the divorce rates and tell me something strange isn't happening...

I wonder sometimes if we're going to end up with a generation of very lost, lonely people in the end.

[Ellener]

On 1/20/2021 at 2:26 PM, peach302 said:

A man should be a man.

what does that mean?

7 hours ago, SumGuy said:

I'm all for living within one's means.

exactly. Wouldn't be much of a relationship with someone who doesn't!

Good lord, is it all really this complicated?!

[poppyfields]

I honestly don't view a man paying on those initial dates as preferential (i.e. entitled) by virtue of my gender.  I certainly don't feel that way.  Speaking for myself, I give back in other ways, ways that benefit him, would that be considered preferential treatment?

Actually, perhaps it is.  It's preferential in the fact that I "prefer" (i.e. desire) to date him versus all the other men that I have gone out with and I make sure he knows that through my actions and my responsiveness to him.

But yeah you're right, we could debate this until hell freezes over, nothing will ever change. 

Again, speaking only for myself, it turns me on, assuming my attraction (the energy/chemistry) is already in place.  Nothing to do with feeling entitled or that I deserve preferential or special treatment simply because I am a woman.

What really irks me about this is I have tried really hard to understand why some men have an issue with it, like Shining One said, they've been burned and are sensitive to be used by some women for their wallet.  The operative word being "some," not all women are like this.

But yet, men haven't even tried to understand a woman's POV about it, the biology behind it and why it turns many women on.  They use words like "special" and "preferential," which is a load of BS, it's simply not true for many women.

I agree that if a woman's attraction is "contingent upon" him paying, that's not a woman any man should want anything to do with.

But that's not how it is for most women.

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

5 minutes ago, neowulf said:

I am not without sympathy for the those in this situation.

It's nice to get preferential treatment.  Really nice.  People pay a lot of money to be treated with difference.

But just as men had to give up the notion of "The House Wife", so too will women have to give up the idea of "The Great Provider".

Yet, once that dependence on each other has been removed, I worry... what will make people want to stay together?

What purpose does a man serve in a woman's life?  Companionship?  They have their friends.  Sex?  Easier than ever if they're open to it.

Look at the divorce rates and tell me something strange isn't happening...

I wonder sometimes if we're going to end up with a generation of very lost, lonely people in the end.

This is a whole different topic, but one definitely worth of discussion.  It's a dynamic situation which is constantly changing. 

I don't know what the solution to best managing this will be moving forward.  I am very interested to see how things will pan out in western society in the years to come. 

Whilst I would consider myself a socially progressive person, I do feel that the erosion of valued gender norms will detract from society in many ways.

I am all for equality, when it comes to ensuring that people from not just different genders, bur from all walks of life have the same opportunities as others.

However, there's a big problem when society suggests that cutting down and undermining the opposite sex is the only way to bridge a gap of equality.

Men and women are different.  It's that simple, really.  No sex is better or worse.  We need both for balance.  Women are so much better (in general) at some things compared to men, and vice versa.

I believe that in the pursuit to not abide by rigid gender roles, we've forgotten to stop, take a step back and acknowlege that it's still very important to acknowledge the importance of gender norms without strictly adhering to them.

Women are still attracted to a strong and confident man.  However, feminists will have you believe that a strong and confident man couldn't possibly be that way if it weren't for the toxic masculinity society has instilled in him.

In the same vein, men feel are threatened by intelligent, high-achieving women, will often use language or terms to undermine either her achievements or attitude as to be something counterintuitive, or completely at odds with being feminine.

I think that for relationships to work, moving forward, we need to be able to celebrate the benefits that both sexes bring to society whilst being able to separate an individual's (of either sex) desire to achieve in life whatever it is they with to achieve in their life.

Take, for example, my girlfriend and I.  We've discussed this topic before as a point of interest.

My girlfriend is 37-years-old.  She has three college (University) degrees.  She's very gifted academically.  She earns a very decent salary.  She's fully self-sufficient.  Does she need a man in order to live a comfortable existence?  No...

However, does she want to be a man?  No, clearly.  My girlfriend is very pretty and feminine.  She likes all things that your typical, urban female likes, but she doesn't depend on a man to provide those things for her. 

Instead, what my girlfriend depends on a man for are the things that her intelligence, beauty, resourcefulness... you name it - call it her agency, if you will - cannot provide.  It's those things that men provide.  Physical and emotional affection, the feeling of being loved and protected.  The feeling of being valued.

My girlfriend has a very good grasp of the importance of men's roles in society.  She had a very healthy relationship with her father before he tragically passed before his time.  In fact, she understands the importance of the balance that both sexes provide society.

My girlfriend and I have a very mutually respectful relationship.  She would never try to undermine my masculity by attempting to fulfill both roles. 

She's smart enough to figure out how to fix things around the house, but happy enough for me to sort them out when they arise.  She can mow her own lawn, but she's more than happy for me to step into that role and get the garden looking great.

Equally, I'm quite capable of furnishing my house and vacuuming it.  However, since she and I will be co-habiting shortly, I'm more than happy to let her take ownership of areas like that where she has expressed a desire to do it.

We both love cooking and share equally the meal preparation and tidying up afterwards.

The point here is that if we all work together as a functional team, we can achieve a lot more as couples, and communities. 

If two equals can work together as a couple and acknowldge that gender roles can play an important role in society without subjugating either sexes' opportunities, an equilibrium can be reached, with everyone feeling happy and fulfilled.

It may be a pipe dream to some, but I'm living it.  

 

[Shining One]

29 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

But yet, men haven't even tried to understand a woman's POV about it, the biology behind it and why it turns many women on. 

What makes you think we haven't tried? I've spent years trying to understand what turns women on, including plenty of "field research" on this very topic.

[poppyfields]

19 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

This is a whole different topic, but one definitely worth of discussion.  It's a dynamic situation which is constantly changing. 

I don't know what the solution to best managing this will be moving forward.  I am very interested to see how things will pan out in western society in the years to come. 

Whilst I would consider myself a socially progressive person, I do feel that the erosion of valued gender norms will detract from society in many ways.

I am all for equality, when it comes to ensuring that people from not just different genders, bur from all walks of life have the same opportunities as others.

However, there's a big problem when society suggests that cutting down and undermining the opposite sex is the only way to bridge a gap of equality.

Men and women are different.  It's that simple, really.  No sex is better or worse.  We need both for balance.  Women are so much better (in general) at some things compared to men, and vice versa.

I believe that in the pursuit to not abide by rigid gender roles, we've forgotten to stop, take a step back and acknowlege that it's still very important to acknowledge the importance of gender norms without strictly adhering to them.

Women are still attracted to a strong and confident man.  However, feminists will have you believe that a strong and confident man couldn't possibly be that way if it weren't for the toxic masculinity society has instilled in him.

In the same vein, men feel are threatened by intelligent, high-achieving women, will often use language or terms to undermine either her achievements or attitude as to be something counterintuitive, or completely at odds with being feminine.

I think that for relationships to work, moving forward, we need to be able to celebrate the benefits that both sexes bring to society whilst being able to separate an individual's (of either sex) desire to achieve in life whatever it is they with to achieve in their life.

Take, for example, my girlfriend and I.  We've discussed this topic before as a point of interest.

My girlfriend is 37-years-old.  She has three college (University) degrees.  She's very gifted academically.  She earns a very decent salary.  She's fully self-sufficient.  Does she need a man in order to live a comfortable existence?  No...

However, does she want to be a man?  No, clearly.  My girlfriend is very pretty and feminine.  She likes all things that your typical, urban female likes, but she doesn't depend on a man to provide those things for her. 

Instead, what my girlfriend depends on a man for are the things that her intelligence, beauty, resourcefulness... you name it - call it her agency, if you will - cannot provide.  It's those things that men provide.  Physical and emotional affection, the feeling of being loved and protected.  The feeling of being valued.

My girlfriend has a very good grasp of the importance of men's roles in society.  She had a very healthy relationship with her father before he tragically passed before his time.  In fact, she understands the importance of the balance that both sexes provide society.

My girlfriend and I have a very mutually respectful relationship.  She would never try to undermine my masculity by attempting to fulfill both roles. 

She's smart enough to figure out how to fix things around the house, but happy enough for me to sort them out when they arise.  She can mow her own lawn, but she's more than happy for me to step into that role and get the garden looking great.

Equally, I'm quite capable of furnishing my house and vacuuming it.  However, since she and I will be co-habiting shortly, I'm more than happy to let her take ownership of areas like that where she has expressed a desire to do it.

We both love cooking and share equally the meal preparation and tidying up afterwards.

The point here is that if we all work together as a functional team, we can achieve a lot more as couples, and communities. 

If two equals can work together as a couple and acknowldge that gender roles can play an important role in society without subjugating either sexes' opportunities, an equilibrium can be reached, with everyone feeling happy and fulfilled.

It may be a pipe dream to some, but I'm living it.  

 

Amen 1000 times over my friend!   I feel the same exact way as your girlfriend, in fact I will be starting law school in NY this summer!  And excited as heck about it! 😂 😂

Even when I become an attorney, whether I make lots of $$$ or not (which is not why I want to become one), I will always need a man, just like you said, for physical and emotional affection, the feeling of being loved and protected.  The feeling of being valued.

Not sure if you read this on a different thread but my fiancé is soon to be my ex-fiancé.   I don't know how men will feel about me once I have my degree and start working, I may make more money, be more successful than him.  It should be interesting to compare to now, where the men I date and have had relationships with have earned more than I do.

It will also be interesting to see how I feel about the paying issue, given the fact I may be earning more.

We are always growing, evolving at least I am.  And I am excited to embark on this new journey.

But enough about me, I just loved your post TB, and wanted to tell you that. 👍

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by poppyfields

[peach302]

53 minutes ago, Ellener said:

what does that mean?

exactly. Wouldn't be much of a relationship with someone who doesn't!

Good lord, is it all really this complicated?!

A mans role is to provide. 

Me going on a date with  a guy first time...and me paying? Doesn't sit right with me. 

[Woggle]

I don't think a lot of women will ever understand why men have an issue with spending money on women these days but let me try to explain it. For the past few decades men have heard over and over how much women don't need us and some women have even said they are better off without us. Then we hear how expecting anything traditional from a woman means that we are misogynists who want to keep women oppressed. Men want to pay and pamper a woman when he feels romantic and tender feelings towards her but the current relationship climate and the state of gender relations do not inspire romantic feelings. Instead men just feel like suckers being used when they open up a wallet for a woman. If women really want this traditional approach to return they should start speaking up against the ones who are ruining it. Don't blame men for protecting ourselves.

[poppyfields]

7 minutes ago, Woggle said:

I don't think a lot of women will ever understand why men have an issue with spending money on women these days but let me try to explain it. For the past few decades men have heard over and over how much women don't need us and some women have even said they are better off without us. Then we hear how expecting anything traditional from a woman means that we are misogynists who want to keep women oppressed. Men want to pay and pamper a woman when he feels romantic and tender feelings towards her but the current relationship climate and the state of gender relations do not inspire romantic feelings. Instead men just feel like suckers being used when they open up a wallet for a woman. If women really want this traditional approach to return they should start speaking up against the ones who are ruining it. Don't blame men for protecting ourselves.

I understand your mindset truly.  I know of one women, well a few actually, who take issue when a man holds the door for them!  I mean they actually get pissed off, and will scream (not literally) "No need to hold the door, I am perfectly capable of opening the door," I was actually with her when she said this!

God forbid a man offers to pay.  Same.  "I am perfectly capable of paying my own way, thank you very much."  Like they get insulted by it.  On the other hand, I have had men get insulted when I offer to pay.

So yeah I get it, it's difficult for a man to know what the hell to do!  It does make it difficult for the rest of us. I wouldn't call myself a traditionalist, I have my own career, am independent and self-sufficient.

But nevertheless, it still feels nice when a man I am attracted to invites me out and pays.  

That might change though (see previous post), it will be interesting to see.

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

....

Good lord, is it all really this complicated?!

Apparently it is, or at least causes no end of angst. 

I don't see a right or wrong, just different styles and different likes; just don't make judgments and put one's expectation's on your date...certainly don't expect physical affection just because you pay.  Neither is the guy who doesn't want to pay the full tab less of a man someone or a jerk for that reason, although it's perfectly fine if that turns you off and he is not your idea of the kind of man you want.

I'd say if one has strong feelings about it either way, man or woman, why not be up front about it?  Those you will offend are not the ones you want anyway.  Saves everyone a lot of hassle, even thought this issue is perennial fodder for the LS forum.  

[peach302]

50 minutes ago, Shining One said:

What makes you think we haven't tried? I've spent years trying to understand what turns women on, including plenty of "field research" on this very topic.

A lot of men are actually clueless  though. Young and old

[Trail Blazer]

36 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Amen 1000 times over my friend!   I feel the same exact way as your girlfriend, in fact I will be starting law school in NY this summer!  And excited as heck about it! 😂 😂

Even when I become an attorney, whether I make lots of $$$ or not (which is not why I want to become one), I will always need a man, just like you said, for physical and emotional affection, the feeling of being loved and protected.  The feeling of being valued.

Not sure if you read this on a different thread but my fiancé is soon to be my ex-fiancé.   I don't know how men will feel about me once I have my degree and start working, I may make more money, be more successful than him.  It should be interesting to compare to now, where the men I date and have had relationships with have earned more than I do.

It will also be interesting to see how I feel about the paying issue, given the fact I may be earning more.

We are always growing, evolving at least I am.  And I am excited to embark on this new journey.

But enough about me, I just loved your post TB, and wanted to tell you that. 👍

 

 

Congratulations for taking up your law school opportunity and best of luck to you and your move to the otherside of the country.

I have followed some of your threads and I've seen the writing on the wall with regards to your fiancè and his attitude.  I was unaware you had officially broke it off, though.

I don't think you will change your views about guys paying for the first few dates.  I've dated educated women and always paid the first date or two and only encountered very mild resistance.

As long as a female is prepared to pay her share once two people become exclusive, I have no issue with the concept of paying initially.

As @Woggle pointed out, it's other issues relating to the modern dating sphere which cause men to have reservations about always being the ones to pay.

[Trail Blazer]

36 minutes ago, peach302 said:

A mans role is to provide. 

Me going on a date with  a guy first time...and me paying? Doesn't sit right with me. 

So, I guess it's a woman's role to be barefoot and pregnant, then?

[Woggle]

14 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I understand your mindset truly.  I know of one women, well a few actually, who take issue when a man holds the door for them!  I mean they actually get pissed off, and will scream (not literally) "No need to hold the door, I am perfectly capable of opening the door," I was actually with her when she said this!

God forbid a man offers to pay.  Same.  "I am perfectly capable of paying my own way, thank you very much."  Like they get insulted by it.  On the other hand, I have had men get insulted when I offer to pay.

So yeah I get it, it's difficult for a man to know what the hell to do!  It does make it difficult for the rest of us. I wouldn't call myself a traditionalist, I have my own career, am independent and self-sufficient.

But nevertheless, it still feels nice when a man I am attracted to invites me out and pays.  

That might change though (see previous post), it will be interesting to see.

Honestly I can at least respect the women who fully walk the walk on being independent and I think I speak for most men. It's the ones who say men are trash and find fault in everything we do while shouting how much they don't need us while at the same time acting like they are  entitled to our wallets that really are a turnoff. There are sites where they view using men for their money then dropping them as a form of female empowerment and getting one over on the patriarchy. It doesn't make a man want to be generous. 

[poppyfields]

8 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Congratulations for taking up your law school opportunity and best of luck to you and your move to the otherside of the country.

I have followed some of your threads and I've seen the writing on the wall with regards to your fiancè and his attitude.  I was unaware you had officially broke it off, though.

I don't think you will change your views about guys paying for the first few dates.  I've dated educated women and always paid the first date or two and only encountered very mild resistance.

As long as a female is prepared to pay her share once two people become exclusive, I have no issue with the concept of paying initially.

As @Woggle pointed out, it's other issues relating to the modern dating sphere which cause men to have reservations about always being the ones to pay.

Thanks TB, I have not officially broken it off, but we are living separately at the moment, I am staying with a friend.  We will talk this weekend, I am not looking forward to it, but I am looking forward to being on my own again, as odd as that might sound to some.

I am hoping he feels the same way I do, or maybe that's wishful thinking, we shall see.

He's a good man and has treated me well, I just think we've grown apart, in different directions, or maybe I have.  I plan on updating my thread when it's all said and done.  I said I would.

Anyway, apologies for the brief hijack, back to topic!

[peach302]

9 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

So, I guess it's a woman's role to be barefoot and pregnant, then?

Lets face it most of the time men don't want to pay because they're just tight or can't afford it 😂