Shouldn't be dating if one can't afford it. a gentleman doesn't mind feeding a lady.

[peach302]

9 minutes ago, basil67 said:

So if a woman initiates the date, is the guy still supposed to pay?  

Haven't thought about that.

I very rarely initiate dates. Id say 99.9 % of the time the man has asked me out first.

[neowulf]

50 minutes ago, peach302 said:

Its called dating that's why. Not friendship. 

Do you think a woman is doing me a favor by going on a date with me?

Has she got nothing to gain by entering into a relationship?  Is her time worth more than mine?

Should I be grateful she's decided to go out with me?  

Other than tradition, explain to me why a man (who is apparently no greater than a woman) is obligated to pay?

Sorry, but all this boils seems to come down to "Because a woman's time and attention is more valuable than a man's!" and that smacks of entitlement.

To be clear, this is the world women said they wanted.  They wanted equality!  To be treated as equals.  
I've been conditioned since childhood to view women as people first, as equal. 

I find it hard to stomach that women seem to demand difference, while claiming they want equality.  It's hypocritical and deeply confusing.

[peach302]

16 minutes ago, neowulf said:

Do you think a woman is doing me a favor by going on a date with me?

Has she got nothing to gain by entering into a relationship?  Is her time worth more than mine?

Should I be grateful she's decided to go out with me?  

Other than tradition, explain to me why a man (who is apparently no greater than a woman) is obligated to pay?

Sorry, but all this boils seems to come down to "Because a woman's time and attention is more valuable than a man's!" and that smacks of entitlement.

To be clear, this is the world women said they wanted.  They wanted equality!  To be treated as equals.  
I've been conditioned since childhood to view women as people first, as equal. 

I find it hard to stomach that women seem to demand difference, while claiming they want equality.  It's hypocritical and deeply confusing.

No that's the way you're interpreting it..you should address the others on the thread who believe in the man paying. 

As i only stated for the first meet its my preference that they pay. 

 

[cleverusername]

Come on guys, you're all overthinking this. Just because you paid for a woman's meal doesn't make you a lesser man. Part of dating is entertaining, and the burden of entertainment is on the entertainer. 

If you are hosting a dinner party and invite people over, unless explicitly stated you are expected to provide food and entertainment. If you are inviting a woman out for  date, you are expected to entertain and feed her. If you can do that over $2 coffee or free or $30's worth of mini golf is irrelevant. What does matter is that you succeed and make a good impression. What isn't good is if you neither provide food or entertainment, your party is going to be a flop and your date will be a flop.

So, how confident are you in your hosting skills? But the cash value isn't what matters, its the entertainment value to the woman. 

[Mrin]

Damn.... this blew up. LOL.

Here's how it works for me. 

I pay for the first date/meet/whatever you want to call it. Hell, I'll probably insist on paying for the first few dates. Why? Because I want her to feel courted. I want her to feel wooed. I want her to feel pursued. I want her to feel like I'm making the effort because she's worth it. I don't give a rip if she makes the same as I do or much much more. I want her to be able to relax into her feminine. Because, for me, when a woman is in her feminine and I'm in my masculine, that's where the magic happens. 

Is this fair? Is this equitable? Guys... we're talking about romance here. We're talking about dating. Trying to determine if this is fair or equitable is like trying to decide what color it is or whether it has a hard or soft surface. Equitable and fair are qualities that have no meaning or practical application when it comes to romance. Do you watch a pair of tango dancers and ask "is that fair?"  Do you listen to Beethoven's 9th and ask "is that equitable?" This s*** isn't science. It isn't law. It for f***ing sure isn't accounting. This is art, man. This is beauty. Romance and passion and dating are the stuff songs are made of. And it can be f***ing awesome. 

That works for me. And it seems to work with the women I date. Give it a try. YMMV.

 

Mrin

[peach302]

45 minutes ago, Mrin said:

Damn.... this blew up. LOL.

Here's how it works for me. 

I pay for the first date/meet/whatever you want to call it. Hell, I'll probably insist on paying for the first few dates. Why? Because I want her to feel courted. I want her to feel wooed. I want her to feel pursued. I want her to feel like I'm making the effort because she's worth it. I don't give a rip if she makes the same as I do or much much more. I want her to be able to relax into her feminine. Because, for me, when a woman is in her feminine and I'm in my masculine, that's where the magic happens. 

Is this fair? Is this equitable? Guys... we're talking about romance here. We're talking about dating. Trying to determine if this is fair or equitable is like trying to decide what color it is or whether it has a hard or soft surface. Equitable and fair are qualities that have no meaning or practical application when it comes to romance. Do you watch a pair of tango dancers and ask "is that fair?"  Do you listen to Beethoven's 9th and ask "is that equitable?" This s*** isn't science. It isn't law. It for f***ing sure isn't accounting. This is art, man. This is beauty. Romance and passion and dating are the stuff songs are made of. And it can be f***ing awesome. 

That works for me. And it seems to work with the women I date. Give it a try. YMMV.

 

Mrin

You're the type of person  i would date 😂

[neowulf]

[DELETED]

Yeah, I'm out.

Edited January 28, 2021 by neowulf

[Mrin]

1 hour ago, peach302 said:

You're the type of person  i would date 😂

Well thank you very much ma'am! 😉

[Acacia98]

6 hours ago, neowulf said:

Do you think a woman is doing me a favor by going on a date with me?

Has she got nothing to gain by entering into a relationship?  Is her time worth more than mine?

Should I be grateful she's decided to go out with me?  

Other than tradition, explain to me why a man (who is apparently no greater than a woman) is obligated to pay?

Sorry, but all this boils seems to come down to "Because a woman's time and attention is more valuable than a man's!" and that smacks of entitlement.

To be clear, this is the world women said they wanted.  They wanted equality!  To be treated as equals.  
I've been conditioned since childhood to view women as people first, as equal. 

I find it hard to stomach that women seem to demand difference, while claiming they want equality.  It's hypocritical and deeply confusing.

As long as you describe women as a monolith who all say this or want that, you'll continue being confused.

Try viewing people as individuals with specific flaws, limitations, blind spots, and contradictory views and values and you'll be okay.

And, when dating, take the time to figure out which women have complementary views to your own, then focus on them. That's all you can really do.

OP: I actually find these kinds of debates tedious. People date individuals. They don't date all men or all women. So there's no obligation to please all men/women or to demand that they all please you.

[snowboy91]

7 hours ago, cleverusername said:

Come on guys, you're all overthinking this. Just because you paid for a woman's meal doesn't make you a lesser man. Part of dating is entertaining, and the burden of entertainment is on the entertainer. 

If you are hosting a dinner party and invite people over, unless explicitly stated you are expected to provide food and entertainment. If you are inviting a woman out for  date, you are expected to entertain and feed her. If you can do that over $2 coffee or free or $30's worth of mini golf is irrelevant. What does matter is that you succeed and make a good impression. What isn't good is if you neither provide food or entertainment, your party is going to be a flop and your date will be a flop.

So, how confident are you in your hosting skills? But the cash value isn't what matters, its the entertainment value to the woman. 

I'm not sure if I agree with the idea that the purpose of dating is entertaining. For me, the purpose of dating is to spend time getting to know one another, see if there is chemistry, and enjoy each other's company. The activities you decide on are secondary to that, regardless of cost. Though the chosen activity is still important and should say something about the personalities involved (for example, don't take someone to a beach if they don't like sand or swimming).

1 hour ago, Acacia98 said:

And, when dating, take the time to figure out which women have complementary views to your own, then focus on them. That's all you can really do.

Agree with this 100%. Everyone is going to have a different opinion, but we know that some women want to be paid for on the first (or even subsequent) dates, and some are happy to pay their way. So the guy gets to choose those who are compatible.

I might add one more thing: If you've been together for a year (or 10), at that point are you really going to be concerned about whether or not he paid for the first date? By that time the first date is a tiny fraction of your time together, and you'll have done so many other fun things together.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

We don't communicate well peachy I don't think it's going to work out.

You're doing it again ☺️. You guys need couples therapy to be better chat buddies .

[Wiseman2]

Agree with the first part about people should be able to afford to date. That includes everybody.

Disagree with the second part. Perhaps it's the odd wording, but "feeding someone" reminds me of a pet or a child.🐈🐕👶🍼

Edited January 28, 2021 by Wiseman2

[central]

I normally expect to pay on the first date, unless she asked me out.  I rarely do expensive first dates, unless I already know the person somewhat.  Expensive first dates are usually wasteful, and seem like a desperate attempt to impress and influence based on material things rather than what the essence of dating should be:  to establish interest and some level of compatibility to make further dates mutually desirable.

After the first (few) dates, I usually expect some reciprocity or cost sharing appropriate to their means.  It's a sign of their respect for me and their own independence and agency.  Not doing so is often a sign of unattractive entitlement.  I also mistrust women who don't make an investment in the relationship, although that could be time and attention if they do not have the means to pay (but even then, a token gesture of paying for small things is a positive sign).

[trident_2020]

12 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

@poppyfields

Are you telling me that everyone has a "first meet" before a first date?

I was a naive online dater 15 years ago when I was back out there after the demise of a long term marriage.

We'd message back and forth and then I'd invite her to dinner. More often then not I'd find myself sitting across the table from a woman who deceived me with old pictures, and that trapped feeling of knowing I'd never see this person again but I was stuck with them for an hour, AND paying the tab for a meal that was usually the better part of a hundred bucks had me rethinking my strategy. Or even if she hadn't been deceptive there simply wasn't a click or a spark.

After a few of those it came down to quick meetups. You can always extend it and make it an official date if things go well.

 

[trident_2020]

8 hours ago, peach302 said:

You're the type of person  i would date 😂

She's just trying to make me jealous.

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

She's just trying to make me jealous.

Agree. 💔. You could try zoom couples therapy or sending some flowers,🥀

Hopefully she hasn't just moved on.😕

[trident_2020]

3 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Hopefully she hasn't just moved on.😕

Doubt it, she's looking for a unicorn.

 

[Miss Spider]

Often the guy will look at you crazy if you offer to pay. Because he usually knows if you offer you’re not that into him or he probably won’t be getting it lol.
 

I’ll pay = ljbf to some guys, even when that’s not always the  case. 
 

I had a legit argument with one of my dates about it and he’s like “it’s just a drink, it’s $6. Why are you so opposed to me paying for it?” Or some ish like that and I was just like plzzzzz dude, doing this is not going to change the already decided outcome, just let me pay for my own d*** drink. 

I wish the man pays thing wasn’t an expected thing at all... I can afford my own stuff and just because a man is paying for my dinner does not mean he can “provide” for me and our offspring or whatever. That’s a pretty hamster thing to infer from someone paying for a dinner....

Edited January 28, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

11 hours ago, Mrin said:

I want her to be able to relax into her feminine. Because, for me, when a woman is in her feminine and I'm in my masculine, that's where the magic happens. 

I agree Mrin, a natural polarity, yin/yang, Mars/Venus,  masculine/feminine.

And yeah, when it all comes together, it's f*ckin amazing!😊

That said, I'm realizing that, at least for me, it doesnt take a man paying for me to relax into my feminine.  I can still be and feel feminine when I pay.

As I said earlier, we are both enjoying a nice meal together, no reason why we should both not contribute to paying for that nice meal together.  

Not by splitting the check necessary but buying dessert later or after dinner drinks. Something like that.  

Or taking turns paying if we're regularly dating.

Although like shortskirts said, many men will still want to pay even when a woman offers.  My experience too ss.

@neowulfwhy are you out?  Your POV is relevant! 

C'mon mate, spill it, how do you feel about that?  The natural polarity, masculine/feminine aspect of it? 

You went out right after Mrin's post. 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[peach302]

3 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

She's just trying to make me jealous.

Exploring my other options. No games 😁

[FMW]

59 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

a natural polarity, yin/yang, Mars/Venus,  masculine/feminine.

The guy I'm involved with is very masculine, very protective and concerned with my well-being.  He's 6'7" with the deep voice to match.  He's a very active and outdoorsy guy.  He's not cheap - he's been financially blessed and shares that with charitable causes, including paying medical bills for other musicians who haven't been as fortunate as he's been.   Although he's warm and friendly, he doesn't take crap from anyone. I don't need him to spend money on me to feel the polarity, and he isn't threatened by my desire to contribute financially.  He doesn't seem to have any problems seeing me as feminine and responding accordingly.   

I don't get what's so hard about the concept of different strokes for different folks.  We don't all attach the same meaning to things like money and what someone spending it on you means.      

[poppyfields]

20 minutes ago, FMW said:

The guy I'm involved with is very masculine, very protective and concerned with my well-being.  He's 6'7" with the deep voice to match.  He's a very active and outdoorsy guy.  He's not cheap - he's been financially blessed and shares that with charitable causes, including paying medical bills for other musicians who haven't been as fortunate as he's been.   Although he's warm and friendly, he doesn't take crap from anyone. I don't need him to spend money on me to feel the polarity, and he isn't threatened by my desire to contribute financially.  He doesn't seem to have any problems seeing me as feminine and responding accordingly.   

I agree!  Perhaps you missed this in my post but I have realized I do not need a man to pay to relax into my feminine nature or to feel the polarity. 

Or for him to pay to feel masculine.

I used to feel that way though and I think many women and men (like Mrin) still feel that way. 

Also agree different strokes and all that... 

I dislike the black and white generalizations being made that women are "entitled" for preferring a man pay, or men are "cheap" if they don't.

Dating and who pays are issues too nuanced to be making those types of generalizations imo.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by poppyfields

[Interstellar]

On 1/27/2021 at 8:16 PM, Trail Blazer said:

Of course!  That's exactly what I've been saying.  But most of the women here aren't having any of that!  They expect to be wined and dined on the first encounter.

The issue isn't about paying.  I'll pay for the coffee, or that glass or two of wine, on the first encounter.  If I like her enough to invite her for a second meet (date), I'll take her somewhere really nice.  And, I'll pay for that, too!

What I won't do, is go all-out on a first encounter because it seems pointless to do something like that with a total stranger I've never met and hav no idea if I like or will jave intentions to meet again.

That's how I roll.  It works for me.  It doesn't work for some of the women on here as the feedback coming through is that they view such an attitude as being stingy, or demonstrating a lack of funds.  Neither of which is correct, but that is their perception.

So, if that's not entitlement of the highest order then I don't know what is! 

That’s fair. The very first meet or date is really for getting to know each other. You pay for her coffee or whatever,  pull the chair for her, open her door, etc.

It also helps weed out the professional daters. And there’s a lot of them too.

Additionally,  having the mindset of going all out on someone you’ve never met before and is a complete stranger, well independent women also get turned off by that. They say things like, “why the fancy restaurant?”, “maybe he hasn’t had a date in awhile” a guy can come off as desperate or too eager to please.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Interstellar

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, Interstellar said:

That’s fair. The very first meet or date is really for getting to know each other. You pay for her coffee or whatever,  pull the chair for her, open her door, etc.

It also helps weed out the professional daters. And there’s a lot of them too.

Additionally,  having the mindset of going all out on someone you’ve never met before and is a complete stranger, well independent women also get turned off by that. They say things like, “why the fancy restaurant?”, “maybe he hasn’t had a date in awhile” a guy can come off as desperate or too eager to please.

💯 percent!

I never actually thought about it like that because I was always dating new people from swipey apps when I was single.  I'd have multiple dates per week at any rate. 

As far as I was concerned, a first date was simply a meet-up to see if I liked her enough to ask her on a second date.  I didn't feel like I had to try and impress her any more than just turning up.

I know how that comes across, but in reality, I didn't want to distort the experience with irrelevant noise.  Take me as I am, and then I'll show you what I'm about.  Not once was I ever declined a second date.

For guys who don't get a lot of attention on OLD, perhaps when they do go on a date they want to make a really good impression and in the pursuit of that, can inadvertently come off as desperate.

 

 

 

[SumGuy]

16 hours ago, Interstellar said:

....

Additionally,  having the mindset of going all out on someone you’ve never met before and is a complete stranger, well independent women also get turned off by that. They say things like, “why the fancy restaurant?”, “maybe he hasn’t had a date in awhile” a guy can come off as desperate or too eager to please.

Exactly.    It can also make her think you  expect something.   If one lives in an area with going out options, and plans well, it is easy to turn the meet for drinks into a nice dinner by walking down the block if you two are hitting it off. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by SumGuy