hotpotato Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/20/2021 at 8:43 AM, GeorgiaPeach1 said: Trailblazer, it has nothing to do with gold-digging. It's called having manners. Are you equally bothered by men who expect to get laid on the first date? I understand where you are coming from. I've had guys who bought me a frappuccino and were still expecting sex. I thought going on cheap coffee dates would stop men from expecting sex so quickly. I was quite wrong. Imo in the beginning it's fine for both parties to have few expectations. I'm fine with low investment dates esp in the beginning. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
snowboy91 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 30 minutes ago, neowulf said: I shake my head at people who throw crazy amounts of money and expectation into their first meeting. You are strangers. Treat it more like a job interview or a networking event than something romantic. If there's chemistry there, give it the room to breath. Agree - but I would make it sound less business like than that. The aim is to have a fun time and get to know the person without pressure, and see if attraction naturally evolves. I'm just surprised at how heavily said attraction hinges on whether or not the man pays for whatever goods and services are obtained during the first date. These days it just seems somewhat arbitrary and one sided. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
cleverusername Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 hours ago, SumGuy said: Know not directed at me but have the same view, the first time you meet in person from OLD is really a meet, not so much a date. Personally I do no care about the cost, as in anything I propose (or she has proposed in those few instances) has been well within my means. I've been on dozens of first meets from OLD, all before COVID though so factor that in. I always suggest meeting for drinks, though have agreed to the coffee meet or walk. In all the cases of the last two types, just never got the impression she was all that interested in me...stand offish. Which I guess is fine, some people still agree to meet but go in thinking it is unlikely or to put you through a job interview...whatever. As to meeting for drinks, it provides great flexibility, if one chooses a place with food and drink; where I live many brew pubs, wine bars, some restaurants have such a set up. If it doesn't go well after a drink either person can make a face saving excuse and leave graciously. If paying for her one drink breaks your budget can't really help someone with that. If it goes well you can have another drink and order some food. Personally I often ended up ordering food anyway as just hungry, and if she offers to share something with you that's a good sign. I generally will not propose a restaurant until the third date, but maybe on the second if she blew my mind the first date. So the first date is more a meet to see if what attracted you to each other on-line carries over in-person, the second date is to make sure it is not a fluke or if it was so-so the first date to give it a chance. For me the third date only happens if we can't seem to get enough of getting to know each other, and at that point on will only exclusively date her to give it a chance. None of this is about money, but more pacing the depth of commitment to the outing. Not so much for me as I can suffer through a lot, but for her. A meet for drinks allows an easy out especially when you are basically strangers. This was interesting take, thanks. I’m finding myself in a similar situation for the first time so it’s good to hear ideas like this. Thanks friend. Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 17 hours ago, hotpotato said: I understand where you are coming from. I've had guys who bought me a frappuccino and were still expecting sex. .... It must have been the number of adjectives in your order I think this is the international standard... frappuccino = hug at end of date skim frappuccino = kiss at end of date extra ice skim frappuccino = make out in car at end of date extra ice skim frappuccino with hazelnut shot = go back to her place for sex extra ice skim frappuccino with hazelnut shot and protein powder = go back to her place for sex with kink thrown in double espresso extra ice skim frappuccino with hazelnut shot and protein powder = sexathon weekend It is really very obvious (..P.S. I'm just joking just in case that is not obvious) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 9:09 AM, poppyfields said: How about it's a meet, and if you click, can turn into a date? Happened to me. This! I've only ever twice proposed a dinner date for a first date. One was a success (turned into a one-year relationship) and the other, a total bust, as she never even turned up! Hopefully I'll never be in the dating game again, but if I am, it'll only ever be a meet-up for a first date. Nobody deserves the royal treatment if you're otherwise two strangers who've just connected online. After I was stood up, I vowed to not go all out again. If I remember correctly, my next date after that was with my now girlfriend. It was a meet up, not a date. Our second date (one month later) was lunch at a winery! She was worth it! 🥰 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 9:30 AM, hotpotato said: I understand where you are coming from. I've had guys who bought me a frappuccino and were still expecting sex. I thought going on cheap coffee dates would stop men from expecting sex so quickly. I was quite wrong. Imo in the beginning it's fine for both parties to have few expectations. I'm fine with low investment dates esp in the beginning. That's a false equivalence. If you have sex, you do it because you both enjoy it. Women also go on first dates/meetings expecting sex as well. Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said: That's a false equivalence. If you have sex, you do it because you both enjoy it. Women also go on first dates/meetings expecting sex as well. I am having trouble with the notion men (or women) expect sex. How do they convey this? That they actually expect it. Wanting it, hoping to have it? That I can understand. But to expect it? That's quite arrogant. I have never encountered it myself. But yeah wanting it, hoping for it? Yes I have encountered that, and I simply say no too soon and we carry on. Or if he's rude or crude or I otherwise wasn't "feelin it", then I don't go out with him again (which were the majority of men I went out with). Only one man did I have sex with on the first meet; we met IRL and it wasn't even a date, it was literally the first time meeting. I thought it would be ONS but it turned into a 6 year relationship. But even HE didn't "expect" it. Edited January 26, 2021 by poppyfields Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 42 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I am having trouble with the notion men (or women) expect sex. How do they convey this? That they actually expect it. Wanting it, hoping to have it? That I can understand. But to expect it? That's quite arrogant. I have never encountered it myself. But yeah wanting it, hoping for it? Yes I have encountered that, and I simply say no too soon and we carry on. Or if he's rude or crude or I otherwise wasn't "feelin it", then I don't go out with him again (which were the majority of men I went out with). Only one man did I have sex with on the first meet; we met IRL and it wasn't even a date, it was literally the first time meeting. I thought it would be ONS but it turned into a 6 year relationship. But even HE didn't "expect" it. I can only assume that (decent-looking women) who want sex would expect sex to be fait accompli, so long as they make it clear that's what they want, as not too many men turn down sex on a first date. Sure, my comment was based on an assumption. I've encountered this in the past, where I was invited over to a woman's house after talking for a day or so on PoF (Plenty of Fish). Now, she didn't explicitly say, "I want sex and it is my expectation that you comply." However, she made implied she wanted sex based on the manner in which she invited me over to her place. I'm not going to go into detail about what was exchanged (although I've written about this encounter on here in my own thread back when this happened), but given that I agreed to go over, I think it was more than just assumed, but rather expected on her part. I can say that I certainly expected sex. However, the expectation on my part was based on logic. She behaved in a way which gave me little doubt as to her intentions. Men who expect that a mere transaction of a coffee will result in sex are idiots. Sure, it might happen, but the chances are very slim if the girl's intention to have sex on the first date wasn't there initially. Link to post Share on other sites
hotpotato Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: That's a false equivalence. If you have sex, you do it because you both enjoy it. Women also go on first dates/meetings expecting sex as well. People have sex for many different reasons. I dont need it nearly as much as men do, nor do I feel a need to have sex with a man because he exists. Men have a lot more to gain, and women have a lot more to lose by having sex. I've never gone on a date expecting sex. I'm fine with things being light and casual in the beginning. I guess I can see where you're coming from being a man, but as a woman that stuff got old. Men expect a lot for doing almost nothing. "I just spent $5 on your drink, ready to have sex now?" gets old. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 21 minutes ago, hotpotato said: People have sex for many different reasons. I dont need it nearly as much as men do, nor do I feel a need to have sex with a man because he exists. Men have a lot more to gain, and women have a lot more to lose by having sex. I've never gone on a date expecting sex. I'm fine with things being light and casual in the beginning. I guess I can see where you're coming from being a man, but as a woman that stuff got old. Men expect a lot for doing almost nothing. "I just spent $5 on your drink, ready to have sex now?" gets old. If a contingent of men weren't socially inept, they'd pick up the cues which would tell them if a woman wanted sex on a first date. The problem is, there's many more men wanting sex than there is women ready to doll out sex on a first date. It's only natural that some men are going to try it on. For mine, it's the clowns who expect sex on a first date after spending five dollars at Starbucks (which, I might add, is terrible coffee), who give us all a bad name. Equally, it's the women who expect to be treated like a princess on a first date and think guys who want the first date (meet-up) to be a low-cost affair are tight or poor, who give you all a bad name. At the end of the day, each sex blames the other when in fact it's a contingent of selfish people from both sexes who ruin in for everyone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 15 hours ago, hotpotato said: .... I guess I can see where you're coming from being a man, but as a woman that stuff got old. Men expect a lot for doing almost nothing. "I just spent $5 on your drink, ready to have sex now?" gets old. The stories I have heard when a man expects sex is not mere wanting or desire, but a full blown pressure campaign and more than just being disappointed. He expects it as his "right," and that kind of thinking is dangerous as it leads to the behavior that there is little he can do that is wrong to get what he deserves, just what he thinks he can get away with. From what I have heard women feel "lucky" at times to just be called names, agreed that no one should have to put up with that. I cannot think of a story where have heard a man ever feel he may come to physical harm if he turns down the expectation of sex from a woman, perhaps she may disparage his manhood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 17 hours ago, hotpotato said: I guess I can see where you're coming from being a man, but as a woman that stuff got old. Men expect a lot for doing almost nothing. "I just spent $5 on your drink, ready to have sex now?" gets old. That would be completely understandable. Men who would anticipate (NOT expect) sex on a first date or similar SHOULD do so because "you both hit it off" and/or the woman seems interested. This I bought you a coffee, a drink, or even an $80 dinner stuff so "of course" we're going to screw is indeed arrogant and lazy and probably reflects men simply attempting to get what they want without having to build an appropriate rapport. The converse is of course true as well, and if the guy feels he's being "used" for free dinners and so forth without the relationship advancing within a reasonable amount of time, he's always free to look elsewhere. Different people (both men and women) can have very different "styles" and patience levels WRT this sort of thing, which is something we hear a lot about around here. Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) This topic cracks me up. Any guy who expects sex because he bought me dinner...lol. I bet even prostitutes charge more than that. And don't freely give people things if you are expecting something in return. The whole topic is pretty gross. I'm glad most people I have dated it hasn't been an issue. (Also, at least where I am,I usually find coffee dates unpleasant and a drag. I dread them. At least if they are in the coffee shop. There are all these tiny little tables all crammed together so you can hear what everyone around you says, you can barely spread your legs out, there's a good chance the table isn't level, the espresso machine is terribly loud, and it gives everyone bad breath.) And I'm not saying since I don't like coffee dates, it has to be an expensive dinner (just saying that because I know there are people here who will have that knee jerk reaction.) I'd prefer a walk or a trip to one of the many free sites in town. A go-cart track would be a blast. Mini-golfing. I should stop reading this website. Reading people's viewpoints here often just grosses me out as to how shallow, selfish, and materialistic people are. edit: bowling-another cheap date frisbee golf there are so many things you can do. Edited January 26, 2021 by Veronica73 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 If I were single I would never expect sex ever but the thought that she would be using for my money and even laughing about with her friends afterward would bother me. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Veronica73 said: This topic cracks me up. Any guy who expects sex because he bought me dinner...lol. I bet even prostitutes charge more than that. And don't freely give people things if you are expecting something in return. The whole topic is pretty gross. I'm glad most people I have dated it hasn't been an issue. (Also, at least where I am,I usually find coffee dates unpleasant and a drag. I dread them. At least if they are in the coffee shop. There are all these tiny little tables all crammed together so you can hear what everyone around you says, you can barely spread your legs out, there's a good chance the table isn't level, the espresso machine is terribly loud, and it gives everyone bad breath.) And I'm not saying since I don't like coffee dates, it has to be an expensive dinner (just saying that because I know there are people here who will have that knee jerk reaction.) I'd prefer a walk or a trip to one of the many free sites in town. A go-cart track would be a blast. Mini-golfing. I should stop reading this website. Reading people's viewpoints here often just grosses me out as to how shallow, selfish, and materialistic people are. edit: bowling-another cheap date frisbee golf there are so many things you can do. I hardly think that a date which consits of go-kart racing is appropriate for a first date. Not to mention, it's usually not the cheapest thing to do. Just for some perspective, are you in the camp of "guys should always pay first?" 🤔 I don't completely disagree with you about your issues with coffee shops. Some aren't the best, I know. But if I'm suggesting one, I make sure I suggest a good one! Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 13 minutes ago, Woggle said: If I were single I would never expect sex ever but the thought that she would be using for my money and even laughing about with her friends afterward would bother me. Seriously. I must be so out of the loop. I have never even heard of people acting that way. But I guess I tend to hang out with decent people who have ethics and morals. Whatever. I'm not going to modify my behavior based on the lowest common denominator I come into contact with. I have better standards than that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Veronica73 said: Seriously. I must be so out of the loop. I have never even heard of people acting that way. But I guess I tend to hang out with decent people who have ethics and morals. Whatever. I'm not going to modify my behavior based on the lowest common denominator I come into contact with. I have better standards than that. There are boards where women somehow think they are getting one over on men in general by using them. Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Trail Blazer said: I hardly think that a date which consits of go-kart racing is appropriate for a first date. Not to mention, it's usually not the cheapest thing to do. Just for some perspective, are you in the camp of "guys should always pay first?" 🤔 I don't completely disagree with you about your issues with coffee shops. Some aren't the best, I know. But if I'm suggesting one, I make sure I suggest a good one! In general, I think whoever asks should pay. But on a first date I wouldn't insist on that. Mostly because I unfortunately know what most guys think of that. But if I wasn't interested in going out with the guy again, I would absolutely insist on paying my share. There would be no question. So that there is no confusion. I can afford to feed myself. I don't need some guy who is looking for sex to feed me. Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Also, at least where I am, a couple of rides on a go-kart track are cheap. But I guess I met this guy at a motorcycle meet-up, because I ride a motorcycle, so this date idea might not be applicable to everyone. But I still think it seems super fun and something you could laugh about. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 28 minutes ago, Veronica73 said: Also, at least where I am, a couple of rides on a go-kart track are cheap. But I guess I met this guy at a motorcycle meet-up, because I ride a motorcycle, so this date idea might not be applicable to everyone. But I still think it seems super fun and something you could laugh about. Well, where I am I wouldn't consider "a couple of rides" on a go-kart a prohibitive expense, either. My local indoor go-kart facility charges about $25 per person, per session. However, if you quadruple that, for say two sessions, for two people, you are looking at about $100. That's way too much for a first date, especislly if she expects him to pay it all! Go-karts, mini-golf, bowling... they're all fantastic dating ideas for when you're a few dates in, when you're exclusive or close to being exclusive. On a first date, the objective is to get a feel for the person. To get an insight into who they are, what makes them tick. It's not really supposed to be super-fun, in my opinion. Perhaps women like yourself would say I'm stingy, poor or boring/unimaginative? I say that first dates are a vetting process and any woman who laments my lack of imagination for choosing a coffee shop has just been screened out. Ergo, my process is working just as it was inteded to do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 8 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: Well, where I am I wouldn't consider "a couple of rides" on a go-kart a prohibitive expense, either. My local indoor go-kart facility charges about $25 per person, per session. However, if you quadruple that, for say two sessions, for two people, you are looking at about $100. That's way too much for a first date, especislly if she expects him to pay it all! Go-karts, mini-golf, bowling... they're all fantastic dating ideas for when you're a few dates in, when you're exclusive or close to being exclusive. On a first date, the objective is to get a feel for the person. To get an insight into who they are, what makes them tick. It's not really supposed to be super-fun, in my opinion. Perhaps women like yourself would say I'm stingy, poor or boring/unimaginative? I say that first dates are a vetting process and any woman who laments my lack of imagination for choosing a coffee shop has just been screened out. Ergo, my process is working just as it was inteded to do. I’m sure you’re right. On the screening thing. But a go cart date isn’t anything close to that expensive where I am. This is what high school kids do on a regular basis. It is very cheap and each loop is only a couple of minutes. It’s like ice skating or going roller skating. So we may be thinking of very different things. But at the same time....I own my own home. I own two cars. I have a 401K and an IRA. And am looking at buying a vacation home. Any guy who thinks I owe him sex because he bought me dinner is, as far as I’m concerned....not someone I would want to ever sleep with or even spend time with again. Maybe I’m delusional, but I don’t think this is how most men I know think. And I am in no way someone who expects the guy to pay for everything. I have always paid at least my share, if not more. Over the course of the whole relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Veronica73 said: . But my dislike of coffee shop dates wasn’t a personal insult towards you. I go on them because that’s what people do. But I tend to dread them. But I of course don’t rule anybody out because of that choice of first “meeting” or “date” or whatever. Otherwise I would choose to never go on them at all. But they really do usually suck. Edit: Also...and this may be relevant....I don’t do online dating. So our first meeting most likely already occurred and so we already got a feel for each other. But this is starting to get personal and straying from the original topic. Edited January 27, 2021 by Veronica73 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Veronica73 said: But my dislike of coffee shop dates wasn’t a personal insult towards you. I go on them because that’s what people do. But I tend to dread them. But I of course don’t rule anybody out because of that choice of first “meeting” or “date” or whatever. Otherwise I would choose to never go on them at all. But they really do usually suck. ... Same and I love coffee and know several ones that are perfect for conversation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Veronica73 Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, SumGuy said: Same and I love coffee and know several ones that are perfect for conversation. Yeah, I know there are good ones. But there are a lot of bad ones that....make a first meeting/date much worse than it should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Veronica73 said: I’m sure you’re right. On the screening thing. But a go cart date isn’t anything close to that expensive where I am. This is what high school kids do on a regular basis. It is very cheap and each loop is only a couple of minutes. It’s like ice skating or going roller skating. So we may be thinking of very different things. But at the same time....I own my own home. I own two cars. I have a 401K and an IRA. And am looking at buying a vacation home. Any guy who thinks I owe him sex because he bought me dinner is, as far as I’m concerned....not someone I would want to ever sleep with or even spend time with again. Maybe I’m delusional, but I don’t think this is how most men I know think. And I am in no way someone who expects the guy to pay for everything. I have always paid at least my share, if not more. Over the course of the whole relationship. Most guys on dating apps apparently do. However, that's according to women on here. Whether it's true or not, if that is the way women end up feeling from the majority their OLD encounters, I guess there's a reason why many feel jaded. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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