Is this a normal marriage?

[Cherry05]

My husband and I have been together 13 years, married 10 this year. We have 4 beautiful kids together. However, more and more, I am finding myself unhappy and unsatisfied in this marriage. It seems that whenever I bring my concerns up, they get switched around. He's a good provider and dad, but I feel he is lacking as a husband. We have sex maybe twice a month - we're in our early 30s. 😑 And this has been going in for years. When we do, they're pretty much quickies. No foreplay. No kissing. He's never gone down on me and doubt he ever will. And here's something crazy, I never seen him without his shirt on. Yes. After 13 years. He says it'll feel weird to have our naked bodies on each other. 🤔 So yeah, no showers or baths together or anything like that. There's also no intimacy. He never tries to hold me, hug me, kiss me just because. And if I do anything like that, he looks at me crazy or pulls away. Is this what marriage looks like after you're together for so long? It makes me feel like he's uninterested and definitely doesn't help with my confidence.  😕

[d0nnivain]

Well clearly you are having some sex.  It's odd that you have never seen him without a shirt on & perhaps you need to get to the bottom of that.  Your communication could also use some help. 

A short course of MC should fix what ails you.

[Fletch Lives]

No affection and virtually no sex is bad. Eventually, you could fall out of love with him.... and we all know where that takes us.

It sounds like he's falling out of love with you. Maybe look into a makeover, and try to do the romantic and other things you did in the early days, when he loved you madly. It's possible to bring a person's love level back up if there is something still there to work with.

[Cherry05]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Well clearly you are having some sex.  It's odd that you have never seen him without a shirt on & perhaps you need to get to the bottom of that.  Your communication could also use some help. 

A short course of MC should fix what ails you.

If you're referring to my many kids, my youngest child is 6. Lol. The past few years, it's just not often at all. I've communicated this stuff a couple of times and have never really gotten a straight answer. I've suggested marriage counseling and he refuses. He doesn't need someone telling him what he needs to do, so yea. Idk. 😕

[Cherry05]

2 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

No affection and virtually no sex is bad. Eventually, you could fall out of love with him.... and we all know where that takes us.

It sounds like he's falling out of love with you. Maybe look into a makeover, and try to do the romantic and other things you did in the early days, when he loved you madly. It's possible to bring a person's love level back up if there is something still there to work with.

I haven't let my self go or anything. I make sure I look decent and keep my appearance up. I put on a few pounds having 4 kids, but nothing extreme - not overweight or anything. Just not a stick like I used to be. I feel like I'm putting in a lot and it's just not being acknowledged by him.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

 this has been going in for years.

He's never gone down on me and doubt he ever will.

I never seen him without his shirt on. 

Sorry this is happening. Surely you know it has nothing to do with you, and more to do with his lack of openness, prudishness, etc. Therefore marriage therapy would never help this type of situation.  

Have you ever been on vacation? Is he hung up on his body? 

[mark clemson]

I'm not sure there's truly such a thing as a "normal" marriage at the detail level, since each couple will have unique circumstances and their own styles of relating, "chemistry", life changes as they grow/mature together, etc. High interaction, high intensity couples who argue a lot but stick together LT are certainly out there as well as "low emotion" couples, etc.

That said, it's clear there are intimacy (and probably other) issues and it's clear they are bothering you. All of that is reasonable and having "issues" of one kind or another is certainly not outside the norm. As they say marriages often "take work" as there is essentially a whole industry devoted to marriage counseling.

And I think taking advantage of this industry is probably something you should do, before these issues escalate even further and you decide to separate/divorce, have an affair, or make similar potentially marriage-ending decisions.

I will say that people can have different "attachment styles" and "love languages" and there may be some misalignment in the two of yours. That isn't in and of itself a reason to end things, but it may be part of the underlying causes for the issues you're having. Note that these things can sometimes change over time as well, so people can become e.g. more or less affectionate, etc as years pass.

Overall I think marriage counseling would probably be a good idea, so you can face some of these issues head on (i.e., communicate directly about them) and have a "referee" to help keep those communications on track in a relatively positive way. Suggest you look for a very experienced one who genuinely specializes in relationship issues and watch out for the (rare, but out there) weirdos who make up a small % of them.

Edited January 23, 2021 by mark clemson

[d0nnivain]

6 hours ago, Cherry05 said:

 I've suggested marriage counseling and he refuses. He doesn't need someone telling him what he needs to do, so yea. Idk. 😕

Make it an ultimatum:  MC or divorce -- his choice. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I suggest you try individual counseling. I wouldn't be happy in a marriage like you describe. Individual counseling will help you sort through your must haves, would like to haves, and help you make a plan to achieve getting your needs met. 

I feel you are mostly posting here for validation of your feelings. You are not wrong. Counseling will help you explore this. 

[Blind-Sided]

Normal is a bad label, since everyone is different.  But... to not want to be intimate with their partner is not good. For a guy to not want to feel the warmth of the skin of their partner on their own skin is strange. To me... this would be signs that he is either gay, or has someone else he is being close with.

Unfortunately, it's simple.  You want to be closer to your husband, and you will be unhappy unless you get what you need.  If he doesn't have the desire to make you happy... then you need to move on. 

Sorry, but it's the way I see it. 

[deepthinking]

is there a tattoo under that shirt?   

Edited January 24, 2021 by deepthinking

[Cherry05]

21 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. Surely you know it has nothing to do with you, and more to do with his lack of openness, prudishness, etc. Therefore marriage therapy would never help this type of situation.  

Have you ever been on vacation? Is he hung up on his body? 

Yes, we go on vacation often. He doesn't like any water parks. If we go, he still has his shirt on. 😑

[Cherry05]

2 hours ago, deepthinking said:

is there a tattoo under that shirt?   

I've gotten a couple of glances over the years. No tattoos 🤷🏽‍♀️.

[pepperbird2]

Was he like this before you got married?

[Weezy1973]

Everybody has their idiosyncrasies, and not wanting to go without a shirt is one of his. The other things aren’t problematic in themselves, but what is problematic is that he isn’t listening to your concerns. Marriage counseling is a good step as it will help you both communicate. If he’s always been like this, it’s unlikely to change. Which is fine. You’ll then have to decide how big a problem it is really. Remember that it’s not personal. He’s not having sex with you often or spending the amount of time you’d prefer because of his stuff; nothing to do with you.

[vla1120]

If he has always been non-affectionate, I guess that's probably not going to change. Do you guys do date nights or spend time together just the two of you? If there is no chance of him changing, you might have to change your expectations. It sounds like he is a bit conservative in the bedroom. You could try to enlist him into some exploration in the bedroom. Ask him if he has any unfulfilled fantasies (and hope they're not weird 😂) and see if you can draw him out of his shell. I always remember what one MC said to me. "It's not always about trying to get your partner to change. Sometimes, it's about you needing to accept him as he is." Of course, you do not want to live in a loveless, sexless marriage. I hope you are able to put some of the spark back in there.

[ExpatInItaly]

I don't mean to sound insensitive or leap to conclusions, but a couple things crossed my mind here:

Is there a chance he has some sexual abuse in his background? 

Or is not that sexually attracted to women in general?

It seems intimacy has always been lacking and he appears to very uncomfortable with the idea of you getting any closer to him. Thinking it will be weird to have your own wife's naked body on yours (when you have been inside hers) is a serious indicator that there is something more going on there, in my opinion. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by ExpatInItaly

[trident_2020]

On 1/23/2021 at 7:53 PM, d0nnivain said:

Make it an ultimatum:  MC or divorce -- his choice. 

Ultimatums don't work in relationships.

 

 

[basil67]

15 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Ultimatums don't work in relationships.

They don't work if one isn't prepared to carry out the threat.  But if you're at the 'make or break' point, you've got nothing to lose by making an ultimatum which you're fully prepared to carry out.   

[trident_2020]

Do a search on "Why Ultimatums Don't Work".

You can start here.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-ultimatums-are-actually-destructive-to-your-relationship#1

[basil67]

@trident_2020 I was careful to write that it's helpful when the relationship is at make or break point.  When all the the gentle listening and discussing as per your link has come to naught.   Of course, upping and leaving without an ultimatum is also an option, and perhaps that's what you'd advise...and it's what I did when leaving my ex-h.  But a lot of people (my ex included) get a bit upset they find themselves in front of a divorce court without a final warning that without change, the end is really, truly imminent.

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by basil67

[Cherry05]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:25 AM, pepperbird2 said:

Was he like this before you got married?

Some of it, yes.

[giotto]

Why did you marry a person you've never seen completely naked? This is rather odd. That said, maybe he's stressed out or depressed? 4 kids require a lot of work. At least you are having some sex, but it's not an ideal situation. His behaviour is not completely normal. There's something weird going on.

[World Peace Guy]

Love is something that you make, not something that comes on its own. There is a chemical attraction that comes on its own, but that does not last. To create love, is very simple. When you put effort into a relationship, that is creating love. Unfortunately, if you put in all the effort, than you are making yourself love him more, making your own feelings grow stronger and stronger, while having no effect on his feelings. He needs to make some kind of an effort, so that his love will grow

I've had a similar problem with my wife, of 20 years. Sex around 12 times total in 20 years, and absolutely without anything at all from her. One time, I talked her into trying to think about sex all day, to get her interested and wanting sex, so that she would enjoy it. That same day, she took me to a bar we've never went to, and we got mugged. I've always suspected that the reason was her subconscious mind was trying to block out any enjoyment of sex or something. That something happened in her past, that was causing it.

Recently, I told her that her unwillingness to do a simple task for me, shows that she doesn't love me. About an hour later, she said I'm right, she doesn't love me, and wants a divorce. So, that is what happens if you wait to long. That was in an otherwise happy marriage. 

As for what you can do, that is really hard. Maybe ask him how much he values the marriage, and if he'd be willing to do some kind of task to keep the marriage, and keep telling himself this is for the marriage. Or maybe if you think hard, you can think of something he does do for the marriage, and see if you can get him to increase that activity. Ideally a person should be thinking something like "this is something I do because I love you" sort of thing. This is one of the main things that makes love grow.

But, I wasn't able to get my wife to do anything, so... I hope you have much better luck.

[Lotsgoingon]

One of your husband's habits reminds me of acquaintance of mine. 

Question: was your husband ever really emotionally close, open, comfortable with affection, tender, attentive to you and so on?

I'm asking because I'm going to guess that the answer is no. He probably was 5 percent more open before you got married and you assumed he would open up more. BTW: it is so hard to really notice how people are--really are--before we get married. Really hard. So no blame here.

I'll just share this with you. This may not have anything to do with your husband's behavior of hiding his chest from you. Well ... my acquaintance has a high chest sensitivity--as he doesn't want to be touched on his chest. His wife kinda freaked out at his discomfort with touch to the chest. She only noticed this out AFTER they got married even though they had dated a good three to four years.  Well the wife is forceful and she basically ordered her husband to investigate to figure out what was going on with not wanting to be touched in the chest. Surprise surprise ... he got a diagnosis of Asperger's. 

I would not have guessed Asperger's in a hundred years except my acquaintance really has trouble expressing himself clearly and really gets tied in total notes in describing feelings. And he is, for someone really warm, distant from people in an odd way. 

Again I have no idea if this story has relevance to your husband's actions, but wanted to throw it out there. 

I will say this: you do want to assume that there IS a reason for his hiding his chest and the reason isn't something simple that he can just push aside. Sounds almost like trauma behavior to me, the behavior of someone abused in the chest while growing up. Not saying he suffered trauma--just saying this to make clear that this behavior is HIGHLY unusual and reminds me of the protective habits people develop after severe trauma. 

So back to the blunt question: was your husband ever really attentive, open, emotionally close, sexually consistent and on and on? My bet: no. Here's another question that gets at serious psychological issues. Does he have some close friends? I'm betting this guy is pretty socially isolated and sticks to himself. 

I think your next move is to really open up your mind (not meant as an insult) and to be super curious about your husband and his behavior. Think back to the entire time you've been with him. You probably will see a different man than the man you thought you were marrying. Again, this is NOT unusual. It's nearly impossible for people to see their future spouse as they really are. But start with curiosity.