Is this a normal marriage?

[Lotsgoingon]

Oh, to answer your question directly, No this is not a normal marriage. Or let me drop the word normal. This is not a marriage that is likely to lead to closeness and intimacy and warmth and satisfaction. All marriages have weak spots and struggles. Yours facing a big big challenge in that your husband lacks some basic social skills, and intimacy skills, comfort with intimacy, warmth and so on.

You mentioned that you are in your early 30s and you've been together with your husband for 13 years, married for ten. By my calculation you got involved with him in your early 20s. It is REALLY HARD for people in their 20s to be able to notice and face up to the behaviors your husband is displaying. Really hard. If he was your first love, it's even harder. It's so easy to take our first love and see it as a template ... and to assume that what we are going through is "normal" or "typical." Or more precise, to assume that it's "OK." 

A relative of mine got married at age 23. She is one of the most mature people I know. Had been independent since teenage years as she didn't have a father around, and she was the kind of person who always took initiative, got jobs to get her through school, was well organized. She did NOT have a naive view of romance at all. Well when she got to her mid 30s, she commented on her marriage at 23. "Of course, I was too young to get married," she said. The statement startled me, because I thought of her as someone who was more mature than her age. But she admitted she was so naive about and blind to issues with her husband, who had ongoing problems with depression and lots of mood swings.

So don't be hard on yourself. The good news is that you are now growing up and facing the reality, the reality that marriage requires high-level social and interpersonal skills and mutual nurturing for both parties to be satisfied. Few couples are perfectly equally matched in all their skills or in say their sex drives. But you are reporting a huge huge gap. 

Do you have friends. A good first step is to start opening up about your marriage with friends. You'll feel relieved and you're likely to get some good ideas and perspectives. 

[basil67]

@Cherry05 Have you ever had a look back at the posts you've made about your marriage?  It can be very enlightening to look back at how you were feeling years ago.  In your case, you've been miserable for such a long time.  And you're still so young, with your whole life in front of you.

What is it that keeps you married to him?

[Cherry05]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:03 AM, giotto said:

Why did you marry a person you've never seen completely naked? This is rather odd. That said, maybe he's stressed out or depressed? 4 kids require a lot of work. At least you are having some sex, but it's not an ideal situation. His behaviour is not completely normal. There's something weird going on.

I guess I never thought much about it. We were pretty young and I assume I figured I'd see him eventually. Yes, 4 kids is a lot of work, but I work full-time, in grad school, and take care house cleaning/chores pretty much on my own. I'm the one who should be stressed. 😫 So, February is almost over and it's been 3 times we had sex this year so far. Sigh.

[giotto]

12 minutes ago, Cherry05 said:

I guess I never thought much about it. We were pretty young and I assume I figured I'd see him eventually. Yes, 4 kids is a lot of work, but I work full-time, in grad school, and take care house cleaning/chores pretty much on my own. I'm the one who should be stressed. 😫 So, February is almost over and it's been 3 times we had sex this year so far. Sigh.

Difficult situation... time for "the talk" with him?

[Cherry05]

20 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

So back to the blunt question: was your husband ever really attentive, open, emotionally close, sexually consistent and on and on? My bet: no. Here's another question that gets at serious psychological issues. Does he have some close friends? I'm betting this guy is pretty socially isolated and sticks to himself. 

I think your next move is to really open up your mind (not meant as an insult) and to be super curious about your husband and his behavior. Think back to the entire time you've been with him. You probably will see a different man than the man you thought you were marrying. Again, this is NOT unusual. It's nearly impossible for people to see their future spouse as they really are. But start with curiosity. 

 

Sexually consistent- He was until we had our first child, so 11 years ago. Actually, every pregnancy he wouldn't have sex with me after I would be about 3 months in. So, we'd go 7 months with no sex for each child.

Emotionally close/open - Not really. He would tell all his problems to his mom. Not me. He still says it is because he doesn't want to worry me, which makes no sense if I'm the one asking.

Close friends - He does have one, but he doesn't live close by or anything. He also was close with his cousin, but seems like that is fading. I, personally, have no close friends. Having 4 kids kinda does that to you. 😔

[Cherry05]

17 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You mentioned that you are in your early 30s and you've been together with your husband for 13 years, married for ten. By my calculation you got involved with him in your early 20s. It is REALLY HARD for people in their 20s to be able to notice and face up to the behaviors your husband is displaying. Really hard. If he was your first love, it's even harder. It's so easy to take our first love and see it as a template ... and to assume that what we are going through is "normal" or "typical." Or more precise, to assume that it's "OK." 

....But she admitted she was so naive about and blind to issues with her husband, who had ongoing problems with depression and lots of mood swings.

So don't be hard on yourself. The good news is that you are now growing up and facing the reality, the reality that marriage requires high-level social and interpersonal skills and mutual nurturing for both parties to be satisfied. Few couples are perfectly equally matched in all their skills or in say their sex drives. But you are reporting a huge huge gap. 

Do you have friends. A good first step is to start opening up about your marriage with friends. You'll feel relieved and you're likely to get some good ideas and perspectives. 

Yes, we've been together since we were 18 & 19. Married when we were 21 & 22. 

My husband does have mood swings too. They are terrible. I'll ask him what's wrong and he will look at me crazy and won't say. Then days later, he will say that I suck at comforting him. This is a never ending cycle. I'm super positive and bubbly. His moods bring me down. He says if he is down, as a wife, I should feel him and be down too. Umm, not if I don't know what we are down for.

I don't really have friends to talk to, unfortunately.

[Cherry05]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

@Cherry05 Have you ever had a look back at the posts you've made about your marriage?  It can be very enlightening to look back at how you were feeling years ago.  In your case, you've been miserable for such a long time.  And you're still so young, with your whole life in front of you.

What is it that keeps you married to him?

I never thought about that. You made me look back at my posts and I was complaining about sex 4 times a month 5 years ago. Here we are now, down to 2 times - with older kids who now have their own rooms on the other side of the house. Just getting worse.

I guess what keeps me married is a lot of things. The time we put in. Our kids. A divorce would be rough on them. It'd be rough on all of us. The fear of change and failing. 

 

[Lotsgoingon]

 

You gotta burn up the phones and make friends. You have to call up old friends. I don't care if you have 15 children. You're not going to have friends where you hang out regularly (pre-covid). But you need some people you check in with once a month or once every two months. A phone call is fine.

You're partly in this mess and paralyzed and stuck because without friends in our lives, we're basically living in a cult. You're not getting the perspectives of other people. Other people's perspectives--a range of perspectives--helps us stay sane. 

Trying to get all your life from this guy, with his terrible nurturing skills ... my Lord, were you raised in a neglectful family. You got to stop settling for misery. 

Get going to the attorney. Stop all the worrying and get yourself in gear.

[SaraSays]

Was he ever a good partner? Did he ever contribute to the family's housework without you having to ask? Did he ever willingly undertake work to help the family in the home? Did he ever spontaneously start cleaning, cooking or going to the supermarket, because he realised the family needed those things to be done?

[amberp]

Hello! It's bad enough that you feel that way. But "normal" is a very individual concept. If you are not satisfied, talk to your husband. You can always renew the relationship. Do something you both ejoy. What we need from a person is emotions. Give those emotions that makes you both happy. 

[Clockwork]

On 1/23/2021 at 10:42 AM, Cherry05 said:

My husband and I have been together 13 years, married 10 this year. We have 4 beautiful kids together. However, more and more, I am finding myself unhappy and unsatisfied in this marriage. It seems that whenever I bring my concerns up, they get switched around. He's a good provider and dad, but I feel he is lacking as a husband. We have sex maybe twice a month - we're in our early 30s. 😑 And this has been going in for years. When we do, they're pretty much quickies. No foreplay. No kissing. He's never gone down on me and doubt he ever will. And here's something crazy, I never seen him without his shirt on. Yes. After 13 years. He says it'll feel weird to have our naked bodies on each other. 🤔 So yeah, no showers or baths together or anything like that. There's also no intimacy. He never tries to hold me, hug me, kiss me just because. And if I do anything like that, he looks at me crazy or pulls away. Is this what marriage looks like after you're together for so long? It makes me feel like he's uninterested and definitely doesn't help with my confidence.  😕

I am just trying to get around how that is possible to never see him without his shirt off. So I guess no swimming at the beach or a pool either? You guys have four kids and you've never been to a beach together? Yeah, that sounds strange. My guess is this, could there be a birthmark or something he has been insecure about? Because after 13 years with your wife you should be long able to be somewhat vulnerable around her, if only her, over something like this. It could be something more too. Maybe it has to do with being abused. I just know that there is some discomfort and PTSD that comes from people who have been abused by taking their shirt off. Maybe it is something an uncle did to them or whatever and it triggers that emotion back again. Because that is beyond strange. One of the best things about having sex with your wife is the skin on skin thing. My guess is that is purely psychological and it could be for a sinister reason. 

[Cherry05]

On 2/26/2021 at 1:58 PM, SaraSays said:

Was he ever a good partner? Did he ever contribute to the family's housework without you having to ask? Did he ever willingly undertake work to help the family in the home? Did he ever spontaneously start cleaning, cooking or going to the supermarket, because he realised the family needed those things to be done?

Yes, every now and then, he does. Not often and when he does, it's like he wants a prize for it. 😒

[Cherry05]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:47 AM, amberp said:

Hello! It's bad enough that you feel that way. But "normal" is a very individual concept. If you are not satisfied, talk to your husband. You can always renew the relationship. Do something you both ejoy. What we need from a person is emotions. Give those emotions that makes you both happy. 

I've told him a number of times. We actually had a long talk about it about a month ago. Nothing has really changed though.

[Cherry05]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:50 AM, Clockwork said:

I am just trying to get around how that is possible to never see him without his shirt off. So I guess no swimming at the beach or a pool either? You guys have four kids and you've never been to a beach together? Yeah, that sounds strange. My guess is this, could there be a birthmark or something he has been insecure about? Because after 13 years with your wife you should be long able to be somewhat vulnerable around her, if only her, over something like this. It could be something more too. Maybe it has to do with being abused. I just know that there is some discomfort and PTSD that comes from people who have been abused by taking their shirt off. Maybe it is something an uncle did to them or whatever and it triggers that emotion back again. Because that is beyond strange. One of the best things about having sex with your wife is the skin on skin thing. My guess is that is purely psychological and it could be for a sinister reason. 

Yes, we have been to the beach and waterpark a couple of times, although he tries to avoid it. When we do go, he wears like an underarmour top, so still no shirt off. The conversation came up years ago after he said something about me being insecure and I said I haven't even seen him with his shirt off, how am I insecure? He really just brushed if off and got defensive, saying it "feels gay". Makes zero sense.

[Clockwork]

On 3/22/2021 at 4:26 PM, Cherry05 said:

Yes, we have been to the beach and waterpark a couple of times, although he tries to avoid it. When we do go, he wears like an underarmour top, so still no shirt off. The conversation came up years ago after he said something about me being insecure and I said I haven't even seen him with his shirt off, how am I insecure? He really just brushed if off and got defensive, saying it "feels gay". Makes zero sense.

 

That does make no sense. One thing that even the manliest of men could attest to is that in front of your wife in private you are allowed to have at least SOME vulnerability. If anyone should see it, its her. 

[thewoomensay]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:58 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

Surprise surprise ... he got a diagnosis of Asperger's. 

I was thinking something along these lines. Maybe a mild case of Autism, too. There are tests you can kindly ask him to take. Don't be disappointed if he refuses. This is a sensitive subject and you have to be ready for how both of you would respond if something like this was in the cards. 

We cannot be everything. The fact that he provides and is a good father is a positive. With diligent work, professional help and patience a lot can be done. 

There will always be something lacking, if we focus on that. Try to see the best things in him. 

[usnvfa103]

On 1/23/2021 at 1:53 PM, Cherry05 said:

I haven't let my self go or anything. I make sure I look decent and keep my appearance up. I put on a few pounds having 4 kids, but nothing extreme - not overweight or anything. Just not a stick like I used to be. I feel like I'm putting in a lot and it's just not being acknowledged by him.

I wish my wife had your drive and want even with 4 kids.   He is definitely losing out.  I don't get how he could be turning you down.   I would jump at the chance if mine does what you do.