Ended things with AP but he wants to be friends

[ScarletA]

For the past 13 months I (MW) had an affair with my coworker who is MM. We do not work together in an office so we are only required to physically see each other a handful of times in a normal year and not at all during the pandemic, save for occasional virtual calls with several coworkers at the same time. During lockdown we didn’t see each other at all but once our work opened back up we came up with plenty of reasons to work together (we are allowed to but don’t have to). 

Based on my lurking here a lot of the details seem pretty textbook (both of us in sexless, roommate-like marriages but staying for the kids; we didn’t set out looking for something but a drunken work party happened and...). Seeing the same story and outcome over and over on this board is partially what set the wheels in motion for me to end things, which I did yesterday.

I fully know in the beginning we were in limerance. As the year went on, limerance started fading for me with the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday and not being able to talk as much or see each other and I began to grow discontent with the push-pull, intermittent reinforcement, and breadcrumbing- all things I felt happening and then reading on here a light bulb went off! 

I began voicing my discontent with the inconsistent communication and he did make a drastic improvement, but our meetups dwindled from weekly to every other week to monthly. Something felt off again and I brought it up yesterday and said I can’t stay on the hook for something that doesn’t feel reciprocated (and in any event the situation is hopeless). He said he can’t juggle everything, he’s having anxiety and not sleeping and I’m falling by the wayside. So it’s over and although I initiated it, I still feel completely heartbroken. I know we are horrible cheaters and liars who made terrible decisions but I can’t help how I feel where I’m at now. I wish we had cut it off before it got to this point.

I do believe we grew to love each other, became best friends, and are better-suited partners than the ones we are currently with, however we both can be pragmatic about it that it’s a “right person, wrong time” thing. Due to current circumstances with one of his children, there is absolutely no way he could leave right now and probably not ever.  
 

He suggested we could still have some sort of friendship- I guess occasional phone calls/texts- which is funny because he was never great with those and got better with a lot of effort over time. Obviously seeing each other would be impossible. I don’t agree that we can talk so he said he will leave me alone and the ball is in my court. 

I’m not sure what I’m looking for posting here, but I can’t really talk about this with anyone I know in real life and maybe just need some tough love/encouragement to strengthen my resolve, as it is very tempting to take him up on the friendship offer because I miss my best friend already.

[d0nnivain]

You are whining about things you want from your MM & not getting:  communication & him being your "best friend."  

Where does your "roommate" husband fit in here? What about what he wants & needs from his wife?  

Get your own house in order.  Either get a divorce or work to fix your marriage before you try to have some sort of a friendship with him.  Stop putting your energy into something you know is bad.  

[BourneWicked]

I'm in exactly the same place as you, except I'm almost 2 months no contact. 

It's really not any better... yet. Though I've heard it will be. I mostly missed the laughs I had every day. Now it's pretty quiet and lonely, and just a job (which I suppose it should be). 

Although it's an affair, I think textbook info about being friends with an ex could be applied here. Do you think of him as a friend, not experience jealousy towards him, not think about him too much outside of how you would any other friend? Then maybe  friendship could happen... but I'm guessing the answer to those is no. 

The one slightly better is not experiencing those horrible mood swings (when he leaves, when he tells me family/friend plans that will never involve me, jealousy, etc,etc,etc). But does that really outweigh confiding, smiling, laughing, a dozen inside jokes, a person who understands you, someone who motivates you and you look forward to talking to every day?

Not sure. I'll keep you posted. Take care 

 

[ScarletA]

9 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Stop putting your energy into something you know is bad

So simple but I needed the reminder. Thanks for that.

I left out the details of my marriage because there is no excuse for my infidelity. Things came to a head and I did ask for a divorce in March but then Covid rocked his business, things stalled and went back to status quo. I know I need IC and maybe MC if I try to save the marriage for the sake of our child. I want IC first to determine how much the affair played a part in me wanting to end the marriage, even though I was unhappy and we had issues for years. 

[d0nnivain]

If your marriage is over, it's over.  Getting divorced is emotionally draining.  Don't put the added stress of trying to maintain this affair on your plate.  Focus on what's important.  Once you disentangle yourself then you can assess other stuff.  

[ScarletA]

34 minutes ago, BourneWicked said:

Do you think of him as a friend, not experience jealousy towards him, not think about him too much outside of how you would any other friend? Then maybe  friendship could happen... but I'm guessing the answer to those is no. 

Exactly. The answer is no to all of those. I know NC is the only way forward.

 2 months NC is not nothing- you are doing well with your resolve. Good luck to you!

[BaileyB]

Individual counselling would be a good plan. You can’t really evaluate your marriage and make decisions related to the future of your marriage if there is another person in the picture. The affair may have occurred in part because your marriage is unfulfilling, but the two are very separate relationships. 

As to the idea that you can be friends with your former affair partner, it’s seems like an unrealistic and unfair thing to ask. Unfair to you, who is trying to move forward and decide the fate of your marriage and/or find the kind of relationship you want for your life. And, it goes without saying that it’s unfair to your spouses. How would your spouses feel if they knew you were keeping contact with your affair partner? How would you feel if it was your husband maintaining a friendship with the woman he had been sleeping with on the side?

If you maintain contact, you are at risk of moving from a physical affair to an emotional affair - one is no more appropriate than the other. And, he may well be doing this with the purpose of keeping you in the physical affair. It is a very slippery slope, as you have already discovered. If you don’t want this for your life, you need to go no contact. 

[ScarletA]

33 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

And, it goes without saying that it’s unfair to your spouses. How would your spouses feel if they knew you were keeping contact with your affair partner? How would you feel if it was your husband maintaining a friendship with the woman he had been sleeping with on the side?

You know, I’m glad you pointed this out to me. I read on another post that an affair rewires your brain, and I think that must be true. There’s been so many mental gymnastics and compartmentalization going on to keep it going and continue the selfish behavior, I need to start looking at it from this perspective. Hoping IC will help with that.

[notbroken]

In my opinion, being 'friends' with this guy is still cheating.  Cut the cord.  Go no contact with him.  If you really don't love your husband any more then do him a favor and divorce him.  You aren't helping your kids by staying.   Your AP is a liar and cheat.  Don't stay with him either.  Make a clean break from both of them or rededicate yourself to your marriage and be the best wife you can be.  One things for sure - you won't fix your marriage by cheating or staying friends with this guy. 

[mark clemson]

If you are separated by distance etc, you can be "friends" but really have little to do with each other. My guess is it's at least likely he is asking for this in part with hopes of restarting the affair, e.g. after things normalize with COVID. After all, you are apparently as much of a band aid on his marriage as he is on yours, if not more.

I agree that it would be wise to focus on what to do about your marriage without the AP as a fall-back or band aid. I think you should wait until your feelings fade and you can think clearly about what makes the most sense for you.

[Zona]

9 hours ago, ScarletA said:

I do believe we grew to love each other, became best friends, and are better-suited partners than the ones we are currently with...

It's impossible for a husband to compete with a shiny new and exciting AP. Affair relationships are based on fantasy, with real life rarely creeping in (changing diapers, paying bills, dealing with sickness, wiping toilets, etc.).

If my marriage was sexless around the time of my WW's affair, it's because she cut me off! I think she felt uncomfortable about sleeping with two men at the same time. That happens a lot and you may not be being honest with yourself about why your marriage had a dead bedroom.

Does your husband know about your affair? If he doesn't, are you planning on telling him about it?

[DKT3]

I alway find it interesting that one could label someone that they only know in a small sample as better then someone who knows just about everything about them. This is part of the fantasy of affairs.  You know only what this guy allows you to know.

I use to MW this question all the time but they never answer so I stopped. 

If you two were single and he was seeing another woman and flaking on your time together would you have stayed 13 months? We know the answer,  so how is he a better fit as a partner?

[Zona]

41 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

I alway find it interesting that one could label someone that they only know in a small sample as better then someone who knows just about everything about them. This is part of the fantasy of affairs.  You know only what this guy allows you to know.

My IC explained it this way. In an affair, the individuals involved see each other at their best and they can control what the other person knows about them. On the other hand, a spouse knows what you are like at your worst. All your faults are exposed, which can be bothersome for someone with low self-esteem. With AP you can create a persona  and feel like you are living free of judgment. They reflect an image back to you that portrays you in a (unrealistically) positive light.

[ScarletA]

2 hours ago, Zona said:

It's impossible for a husband to compete with a shiny new and exciting AP. Affair relationships are based on fantasy, with real life rarely creeping in (changing diapers, paying bills, dealing with sickness, wiping toilets, etc.).

If my marriage was sexless around the time of my WW's affair, it's because she cut me off! I think she felt uncomfortable about sleeping with two men at the same time. That happens a lot and you may not be being honest with yourself about why your marriage had a dead bedroom.

Does your husband know about your affair? If he doesn't, are you planning on telling him about it?

Completely agree with your first point and it’s something my AP and I discussed. Impossible to know because we never did and never will experience “real life” together. I think it’s more likely that my husband and I are so incompatible in many ways that were magnified immensely by having a child, that it feels like someone else would be better-suited.

The obvious next question is why did I marry him, which has a lot of complicated answers I’m realizing and working thru and realize I need to work out in IC. 

As I said a few posts back, I left out the details of my marriage because I didn’t want to make excuses for infidelity when it’s inexcusable, period. But to directly address the sex part, my husband and I had not had sex for over 2.5 years before I even noticed MM’s existence. For quite some time I wrestled with would I be alright with never having sex again for the rest of my life? There’s really quite a lot at play behind this, on both of our ends.

This morning I felt compelled to confess, but I did not. I would like to get into IC first before anything, hoping that will give me better clarity. Would I be confessing to make myself feel better or is it really the right thing to do? I genuinely don’t know the answer.

[MRSR31]

11 hours ago, ScarletA said:

it is very tempting to take him up on the friendship offer because I miss my best friend already.

Matters not why and you know that NC makes it easier. 

[ScarletA]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

 

I alway find it interesting that one could label someone that they only know in a small sample as better then someone who knows just about everything about them. This is part of the fantasy of affairs.  You know only what this guy allows you to know.

I use to MW this question all the time but they never answer so I stopped. 

If you two were single and he was seeing another woman and flaking on your time together would you have stayed 13 months? We know the answer,  so how is he a better fit as a partner?

 

I agree with all of this except for assuming my husband knows everything about me. Reflecting on how I’ve gotten to this point in my life, I’ve realized I have had a hard time opening up to people (A LOT behind this going back to childhood) and my husband isn’t really the type to ask or get “personal.” Sure we know each other on the level where you grow comfortable living with someone for so many years, having dinner together, sitting on the couch watching a movie, but in terms of having vulnerable conversations and sharing the inner workings of our minds- that’s never happened. 

[BourneWicked]

10 hours ago, ScarletA said:

I agree with all of this except for assuming my husband knows everything about me. Reflecting on how I’ve gotten to this point in my life, I’ve realized I have had a hard time opening up to people (A LOT behind this going back to childhood) and my husband isn’t really the type to ask or get “personal.” Sure we know each other on the level where you grow comfortable living with someone for so many years, having dinner together, sitting on the couch watching a movie, but in terms of having vulnerable conversations and sharing the inner workings of our minds- that’s never happened. 

Yeah. I totally get this. That was the draw, and is still the draw, of the stupid friendship idea. I identify with so much of what you say. Literally I did not know two people could connect the way I did with the MM, just the sharing of everything. 

My SO doesn't get my jokes, and doesn't really think I'm funny. I find his sense of humor funny most of the time... but my sense of humor? Well, when you have to explain the joke, it's no longer a joke. 

This is the part that is hardest to give up, that I miss the most. Connecting mentally and emotionally with someone. Constant laughter. That click. That understanding. 

Also, when I get philosophical about this stuff, I get annoyed by the hard lines drawn on this forum. Like yeah, I do think probably the only way out of the rabbithole for me is NC. But how come every show I watch on TV is about the drugs, the limerence, the attraction? Not the boring years of marriage where people grow lonely, distant, and begin to despise each other. Why does society, on the one hand, make new romance this top ideal - and on the other hand say "only monogamous relationships for eternity are allowed"? It's just dissonant and irritating. 

[BaileyB]

38 minutes ago, BourneWicked said:

how come every show I watch on TV is about the drugs, the limerence, the attraction? Not the boring years of marriage where people grow lonely, distant, and begin to despise each other. Why does society, on the one hand, make new romance this top ideal - and on the other hand say "only monogamous relationships for eternity are allowed"?

Monogamy for all eternity is not the only thing allowed. 

The reason why television is all about crime, forensics, drugs, attraction, and affairs is because in a warped way, it’s drama. We watched shows about boring family life back in the 50’s and 60’s - it’s boring... In an effort to draw and keep more viewers, producers and their audiences quickly moved on to the more salacious, fringe aspects of society. In much the same way people like to watch an accident scene or a train wreck - it’s novel and dare I say it, exciting. People like fantasy and many are attracted to drama. 

Respectfully, this argument sounds akin to a child’s tantrum - “my friends get to do it! Why can’t I do it? This is all so unfair.”

If you are able to take a step back from this kind of emotional reasoning, you will see the world in a different way...

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

 

13 hours ago, ScarletA said:

This morning I felt compelled to confess, but I did not. I would like to get into IC first before anything, hoping that will give me better clarity. Would I be confessing to make myself feel better or is it really the right thing to do? I genuinely don’t know the answer.

"Right" is very much in the eye of the beholder and something you'll have to decide for yourself. Some things you should consider (and that those who bring up these actions in online forums routinely fail to mention):

- Reactions are highly unpredictable and range the gamut from essentially shrugging it off, through acrimonious and/or instant and irrevocable decisions to divorce, all the way up to (in rare cases) suicide and murder.

- Talking to a lawyer might be wise, as in some jurisdictions proof of an affair can lead to very different spousal support outcomes.

- Additionally, in some jurisdictions APs can be sued if there is a divorce.

- Your husband might feel "compelled" to inform your AP's wife or GF. (See "being sued" immediately above if he is married, as that could then apply to you). He might also feel "compelled" to air your dirty laundry with whomever cares to hear as this sometimes happens as well.

- If your husband seeks advice in online forums similar to this one, there will be those who suggest that there must be more to it than whatever you tell him, encourage him to tell your AP's wife/GF, encourage him to inform, e.g. your parents, in-laws, and family friends about it, as well as advising other things that you might potentially find extremely distressing.

- You mention kids, so obviously they would be affected, possibly very significantly affected by any damage to your marriage, arguing, divorces, financial fallout, etc. If your husband finds a new GF or wife who you don't approve of or who feels the need to routinely "bash" you, e.g. to compensate for her own insecurities, under typical custody sharing agreements you will have little say in the degree and nature of her involvement in their lives.

In sum, many decisions such as who gets informed, how it impacts you, your marriage, your finances, your AP and his life, and of course any children involved may all be taken out of your hands if you decide to do this.

There are potential benefits to telling as well, and advice for how to approach if you do decide to do it, but I will let others speak to those points.

If you decide you want to stay together - do you want to deal with potentially all or most of the above? Your husband may simply decide to divorce and you will have no marriage to continue with. We see this happen with some regularity on these boards.

If you decide to leave him anyhow, does he need to go through the additional distress of hearing about your affair?

Overall, there is a risk/potential reward dynamic here that you would be well advised to give some very serious thought to.

Edited January 28, 2021 by mark clemson

[DKT3]

Again Mark, all the excuses you use to not confess are the very ones that should keep someone faithful,  right?

Cheaters always attempt to make confessing sound selfish,  that is ironic,  no?

[mark clemson]

41 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Again Mark

These are facts - potential outcomes, not excuses. Someone who decides to tell will have to deal with the fallout, whatever form it may take. That's true when they decide to cheat as well.

Some folks have a very set idea of "what is right". However, the potential damage done by doing (what some folks see as) "right" should be weighed carefully, just as the potential damage done by doing "wrong" should have been weighed before those actions were taken.

I have little doubt some marriages have been saved by confessions. I equally have little doubt that there are kids living in broken homes (or worse) completely unnecessarily because some guilt-ridden person followed the advice of internet "experts" who have simplistic and inflexible views of "right" and "wrong" and put the emotional needs of adults over the needs of children.

[Birdies]

Friendship with an AP is impossible.  It'll just turn into an affair again.... and is still an affair, in many ways.  Ask me how I know.  Go NC for real, or it's not over and you're still stuck.

[DKT3]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

These are facts - potential outcomes, not excuses. Someone who decides to tell will have to deal with the fallout, whatever form it may take. That's true when they decide to cheat as well.

Some folks have a very set idea of "what is right". However, the potential damage done by doing (what some folks see as) "right" should be weighed carefully, just as the potential damage done by doing "wrong" should have been weighed before those actions were taken.

I have little doubt some marriages have been saved by confessions. I equally have little doubt that there are kids living in broken homes (or worse) completely unnecessarily because some guilt-ridden person followed the advice of internet "experts" who have simplistic and inflexible views of "right" and "wrong" and put the emotional needs of adults over the needs of children.

So what you're saying is confessing breaks up marriages? If thats the case then I need to contact my attorney ASAP because just this morning my wife confessed to me that she took my car because hers needed gas and she didn't want to stop.

Come on Mark, affairs break up marriages not confessing them. Guilt is good. 

Confessing is not always the best thing. If the BS is abusive its not wise. However,  not very many "truly" abused spouses would risk cheating in the first place.

If you intend on leaving the marriage a case can be made for not. Otherwise,  its self interest not selfish. 

[mark clemson]

54 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

... affairs break up marriages not confessing them. Guilt is good.  ...its self interest not selfish.

False, particularly since you're attempting to make a blanket statement. Sure, sometimes it's true. But many times affairs DON'T break up marriages unless/until they're disclosed.

In the past I would have given this the benefit of a doubt as the view of someone who's "swallowed their own Kool Aid." However, I've reached the conclusion that for at least some "internet folks", it's simply a deliberate deception.

Seems to me that at least some on this and similar chat boards who hold this view, rather than stating it directly, often seem to be more interested in manipulating WS's into disclosure, e.g. via guilt and pile ons, rather than simply directly stating their views and recommendation. And, of course, potential negative consequences, which are QUITE substantial, almost never get mentioned. So lies both in word AND in deed, and in spirit.

Ironic for those going around touting the importance of honesty.

I do, of course, acknowledge that their CAN be benefits to telling, at least sometimes. But on balance, and given the risks involved, this should be a well-considered and very much a personal decision, not something to do based on the moral views of internet strangers who have no skin in the game at all.

Edited January 29, 2021 by mark clemson

[BaileyB]

It’s like, a teenager takes his parent’s car without permission and bangs it up. Is it the confession that makes the parents angry and results in a loss of driving privileges? Or, is it the actual decision to take the car without permission that causes the anger and mistrust? 

Let’s say the child is able to somehow fix the damage, they could have hidden the truth and allowed their parents to continue believing they were a perfectly obedient child. But, who does that really serve? The unwitting parent is driving a car that has been involved in an accident and damaged. They also have a child who believes they have really pulled one off...

OP, I’m glad to hear that you have someone with whom you can talk through this decision. It’s obviously an important decision to make. 

If I may, the question I would ask myself is not “am I confessing to make myself feel better” or “am I keeping the truth from my spouse to protect him.” I would suggest a different question to ask is “what kind of person do I want to be?” and “what kind of relationship do I want to have?” Perhaps if you find the answer to those questions, you path will be a little more clear...