Partner still has ongoing relationship with a woman he was going to date before me.

[Yanoner]

Hello all, new to this forum.

Apologies for long post.

I have a Q I'd like advice on.
I started dating a man 1.5 years ago. When we got talking he told me he was been chatting the previous 2 weeks to a woman from another country (I live in Europe and she does too, but another country). We had been chatting a few months before but never met so when we got chatting again he mentioned he had been talking to this girl and they were planning for meet in 2 weekend's time. She seemingly wanted to come and meet him and spend a few days together.

I really wasn't bothered as obviously we'd never met and only sparked up a conversation again, so he didn't owe me anything. 
We continued to talk and decided to meet the following week as we were getting on very well on whatsapp on phonecalls etc.
I was hesitant to meet somewhat as I knew this woman was coming to meet him the following week and am not really interested in getting involoved with a man who blatantly might be off sleeping with other women a week after meeting me. But it wasn't a massive issue and I met him as I wanted to.

We ended up starting a relationship and dated for the next 1.5 years.
He told me 2 weeks later after our initial date, he had said he didn't want her to come and visit him as he had started to date me and wanted to pursue it.

Our relationship was somewhat turbulent (we both had some issues and they arose) but we clearly developed a lot of love for each other etc.
On 3 occasions during the last year, during stupid fights, he would send me this girl's photo and say things like "Well screw you, I'm going to go and meet X (insert this girls name here). I found it very hurtful. (But I feel the words were just to annoy me. However, I also found out they they kept a friendship and she often texted her on a regular basis. He knows all about her life and her kid etc. 

I don't have an issue with my partner having female friends (he has many as I do have male platonic mates) but I strongly feel this is different but I also don't know if I am just being unreasonable and irrational.

We split up at Xmas and I haven't seen him in a month, but we are discussing meeting to chat and work on things.

At one stage throughout the year on the 3rd time her photo was flung at me, I got really upset and probably after 1 too many vinos and said it was really hurting me and to tell her to stop contacting him. (Yes embarrassing I know and I felt like an idiot, but I did it and I can't change that now).

He showed me the message he sent and I felt I was really thrown under the bus. He basically said "I've been told I'm not allowed to talk to you, sorry about this".

At the end of the day if we work out our issues I know he will not stop talking to this girl and as I say I just don't know if it's a boundary which is irrational from my POV. 
I know it's going to be an ongoing issue although I would love it not to be. If I was in a similar situ - talking to a man I didn't really know, I would cease chatting to him if it bothered him as I would put more value on my partner - especially if it was a bugbear.

I'd love some thoughts. Always open to constructive criticism. 
His stance is I am 'jealous, needy and insecure and that she is a good mate' and it's entirely my issue.

Many thanks.

PS. I'll add, I was married for 14 years and I found out 1.5 years after our separation that my husband (who suddenly left me at the time) was for another woman. So this I think is a factor in this for me. 

PPS. I am in my mid 40's and he is in his early 50's.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Yanoner

[healing light]

7 minutes ago, Yanoner said:

His stance is I am 'jealous, needy and insecure and that she is a good mate' and it's entirely my issue.

He is gaslighting you. He knows his behavior is inappropriate with this woman which is why he uses her as a threat during fights in order to twist the knife in the wound.

This is a woman he had intentions of dating, not some platonic mate that he knew prior to dating you or developed some kind of friendship with while you were together. It sounds like an emotional affair, the person he keeps waiting in the wings in case s*** goes south with you--if he's not cheating already. Very emotionally abusive to rub her in your face during fights like you're replaceable. If anything, this behavior should be enough to have you toss this man out of your life. Your partner is supposed to function as your safe space, not have you walking on eggshells that you'll be out the door for hunny number 2. 

[Yanoner]

Many thanks for your reply Healing Light.

Most of this guys mates are female. Most of mine are men. It’s just the way it’s gone.
I returned to my home country 4 years ago after a long time away, and I had to make new friends. If I am honest some of those have been through Tinder dates. But the only ones I kept in contact with would the fells I dated for 4-6 months and after 6 months we would get chatting again and it’s totally platonic. And I have made this clear. I have never shown any reason to purport I fancy any of these exs.

Am I being a hypocrite?

I often relay their dating woes to my partner and I am very open and honest.

I have on the odd occasion after this woman’s photo being shown to me and given my frustration flung the odd old pic of a longterm BF ex back at him. I am fully aware this is ridiculously childish behaviour esp .for people our age but I think we both suffer similar insecurities so we know how to hurt.

However if I was asked to stop talking to someone who was an ex (even though this girl isn’t an ex) if I felt it was prudent to do it for the sake of my relationship, I would. I feel that he puts this woman's feeling above mine. 

If I am honest I really don't know if after all the crap we've gone though about her, if he still chats to her, but in my heart I think he does.

I don't care that he has mates who he's has actually dated. Their relationships didn't work out for a reason. But this blasted woman just really gets to me and his attitude about it towards me. 

He has a take that no one should be jealous of anyone in a partners life and if they do, it’s their problem. 

I do not want to re-enter this relationship again where my boundaries are walked all over. But I am not sure if I am being irrational and hypocritical. Blame it on Covid isolation! We are all going mad!! 😕

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Yanoner

[vla1120]

16 minutes ago, healing light said:

He is gaslighting you. He knows his behavior is inappropriate with this woman which is why he uses her as a threat during fights in order to twist the knife in the wound.

This is a woman he had intentions of dating, not some platonic mate that he knew prior to dating you or developed some kind of friendship with while you were together. It sounds like an emotional affair, the person he keeps waiting in the wings in case s*** goes south with you--if he's not cheating already. Very emotionally abusive to rub her in your face during fights like you're replaceable. If anything, this behavior should be enough to have you toss this man out of your life. Your partner is supposed to function as your safe space, not have you walking on eggshells that you'll be out the door for hunny number 2. 

^^^^^^This. Exactly. The relationship is doomed if he constantly throws her in your face (and then expects you not to react because she's only a "good mate.")

[Wiseman2]

40 minutes ago, Yanoner said:

Our relationship was somewhat turbulent 
On 3 occasions during the last year, during stupid fights, he would send me this girl's photo and say things like "Well screw you, I'm going to go and meet X (insert this girls name here).

Sorry this is happening. Hopefully you'll find the strength to end this abusive (not turbulent) situation. It's not about chitchat with opposite sex people. It's about his complete disrespect for you and emotional abuse.

[kendahke]

1 hour ago, Yanoner said:

If I was in a similar situ

What you would do is what you would do---you're not him and he's not you.  He's doing what he wants to do. Don't get caught up in thinking he should think exactly like you... he doesn't--that's what is. He's clearly been telling you for 1.5 years that he's not that guy.

1 hour ago, Yanoner said:

On 3 occasions during the last year, during stupid fights, he would send me this girl's photo and say things like "Well screw you, I'm going to go and meet X (insert this girls name here).

That was your notice to drop him off at the mall and keep going. Let her have him.

Quote

I don't have an issue with my partner having female friends (he has many as I do have male platonic mates) but I strongly feel this is different but I also don't know if I am just being unreasonable and irrational.

No, you have a problem with your partner having a female friend he uses as a bludgeoning tool for when you speak up for your boundaries. 

1 hour ago, Yanoner said:

At one stage throughout the year on the 3rd time her photo was flung at me, I got really upset and (told him) to tell her to stop contacting him.
He showed me the message he sent and I felt I was really thrown under the bus. He basically said "I've been told I'm not allowed to talk to you, sorry about this".

...and he's passive aggressive and manipulative.

Truthfully, he should have been the one to tell her that he was going to dial back their communication loooong before you had to unzip the lizard on him. That would not have had to come out of your mouth **IF** he was the right man for you.  You've spent 1.5 years trying to jam his square peg into your round hole and you've ended up with nothing but frustration.

Quote

When we got talking he told me he was been chatting the previous 2 weeks to a woman from another country

From the beginning, he let you know that that woman's feelings and existence had equal priority in his life to you, if not more. 

He doesn't have what it takes to prioritize you, romantically, emotionally, logistically or loyally.

Seriously? It shouldn't have to take you telling a grown ass 50 yr old man to open a can of "act right" 3 times in 18 months about the same thing. He doesn't want what you want. If you want a man who does, drop him and keep moving--find another man who will demonstrate that he's mature enough to be what you want.

Life is too short, especially after the age of 40, to be trying to force a grown man to fit into a mold of a man you need.. It's straight up BS that you don't have time for anymore.  If, after 6 months, they're showing no movement towards a deeper connection with you and only you--and their whole being demonstrates that--you need to learn to walk away and cut them adrift.

Edited January 29, 2021 by kendahke

[Yanoner]

Gosh kendahke

Thanks a lot for that incredibly considered reply. I appreciate it. x

I think I just struggle with a sense of insecurity about his relationship with women.

I am quite a tomboy and relate to men better than women. He will say he does same, as in latter.

I threw him an amazing party for his bday during Covid lockdown. I bought balloons decorated my apartment, made loads of silly kiddy/old time party food over 2 days for himself and his kid. I busted my ass. At the end of it he dropped his kid home and came back to mine and he sat at the table with all the party mess around him and started texting someone. It turned out the be his ex fiancé from 25 years ago. I asked who it was and he said “Oh that’s X, I’m telling her how great you are, you should be flattered”

Later going to bed I asked how often they spoke and he said “Weekly, she’s unwell and I feel sorry for her, she needs someone to let off steam on” Note this woman has a husband. And again I was told 'Stop being so jealous, these people are my good mates!"

I'd have no issue with him being mates with his ex fiance if I had known she was sure a big part in his life 8 months previous. But these women just seemed to keep coming out of the woodwork. So I find it very hard to trust him as I don't know how many more of them there are. 

I get a constant judgement over this too at times. Told I am irrational and jealous and needy for having any form of an issue over this.

I feel like an utter idiot writing this stuff as I know when I read it back how utterly pathetic I am coming across.

I have been no angel but these are two areas I just cant seem to get past. They have caused me a lot of hurt and I’m expected to accept them going forward if I want to make this relationship work.

If I am honest I think I feel so manipulated and gaslighted by this man that I can't see the wood for the trees anymore. 
I'm an intelligent, highly creative woman with a lot to give. I can't really get my head around how I am even writing this stuff on on a forum to be frank. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Yanoner

[kendahke]

22 minutes ago, Yanoner said:

They have caused me a lot of hurt and I’m expected to accept them going forward if I want to make this relationship work.

The thing is: you are not obligated to make something work that doesn't work for you. 

This clearly doesn't work for you--and you're not being unrealistic.  Him cajoling you, berating you or manipulating you into believing it does doesn't make it so, either.

What's clear to me from your posts is that you're wholly unhappy in this arrangement and he's doing nothing to make it better. He's expecting you to be one of a number and has no loyalty to you.  So let him have all the mates in the world he wants: doesn't mean you are obligated to stay in his life while he does it.

[Yanoner]

9 minutes ago, kendahke said:

The thing is: you are not obligated to make something work that doesn't work for you. 

This clearly doesn't work for you--and you're not being unrealistic.  Him cajoling you, berating you or manipulating you into believing it does doesn't make it so, either.

What's clear to me from your posts is that you're wholly unhappy in this arrangement and he's doing nothing to make it better. He's expecting you to be one of a number and has no loyalty to you.  So let him have all the mates in the world he wants: doesn't mean you are obligated to stay in his life while he does it.

Yes it's very disheartening that I am unhappy about this and it's something that he just won't meet me in the middle of. 
The ex fiance I really could care less about but the other woman is a massive issue for me and I just can't get past it. 
I know I shouldn't have to settle for someone who can't put me in front of a stranger and life is too short to allow people we really don't know utterly destroy a relation or friendship. It breaks my heart he couldn't have just written "Listen I'm really working on things with my partner and no offence but I need to step away from our friendship, I hope you understand" rather than making me out to be a looper.

Thanks for your very kind and informative words.  (To be honest in all my 45 years on this planet I have never been in a situation with a bloke like this)

Edited January 29, 2021 by Yanoner

[kendahke]

3 minutes ago, Yanoner said:

Thanks for your very kind and informative words.

You're very welcome---and don't forget: what you want is reasonable.

[deepthinking]

In his 50s?   Surely a man that age knows what he is doing and taunting his girl with a photo, well, he could simply say "I'm meeting whoever, bye, see you later" 

Constructive?   What would like from him?   Put yourself first.  Don't finalise until he does.  

Edited January 30, 2021 by deepthinking

[Fletch Lives]

Well they never meet so we don't even know if they would have chemistry. Plus she's in another country, so it's harder to meet. She does not sound like much of a threat.

I don't like the fights you are having.

[Gaeta]

17 hours ago, Yanoner said:

On 3 occasions during the last year, during stupid fights, he would send me this girl's photo and say things like "Well screw you, I'm going to go and meet X (insert this girls name here).

When I read that I thought this is crazy!! who in their right mind do that! Then I read he's in his 50s??? You know this is threats and manipulation right? Do you really want to be in a relationship with a 50 something with the emotional maturity of a 15 year old? 

As for the friend on text I think she needs a friend to talk to but your bf probably keeps her on the back burner for when you leave. I mean, you don't send pictures of other women to your gf and not understand that eventually she will leave. 

You've only been together 1,5 year, it's time to end it. You're only 45, you'll find a new boyfriend in no time. 

[Yanoner]

I actually got chatting to him today and we were discussing it over text. 
He 100% believes I am fully wrong and I have the problem. 
He keeps saying "I never wanted to be with her!" That's not the issue from my standpoint.
I am sure he would have jumped at the chance of meeting her if things didn't;t work out with us 2 months in.

I told him I found it incredibly hurtful to find out 6 months in that he was talking and keeping an ongoing relationship with this stranger.

It's being twisted around that she's a good friend and that's all it is. Comparing me talking to my ex-husband or ex partners of 2 years to this woman.

I understand he has grown a connection via text etc with this woman now over almost 1.5 years but the total inability to see it from my side and accept it not really fair or normal to continue to chat to Tinder connections whilst dating someone is not fair or respectful.

I asked him "So if X was to come over here and want to meet you would you do so?"
He replied "Yes totally, if it was a coffee or such"
I asked "Would I be invited?" 
He replied "Yes totally, I'd love the woman I love to meet my mates"

I actually was somewhat dumbstruck. 

[d0nnivain]

You are broken up.  I would not get back together with a grown man who used another woman as a wedge between us, then blame me for being upset by HIS behavior.  She can have him. 

[smackie9]

This guy is a narcissist. It's all about him, he can do no wrong, and if you challenge him in anyway, he does the most hurtful things to you. They will not acknowledge they are wrong, and place blame on those who are closest, and protect those who are almost complete strangers and those who fluff up his ego. There is nothing you can do to change a narcissist. Nothing....that is why he's in his 50's still with bad behavior. Stop talking to him, and keep on walkin sista.

Edited January 30, 2021 by smackie9

[elaine567]

20 hours ago, Yanoner said:

We split up at Xmas and I haven't seen him in a month, but we are discussing meeting to chat and work on things.

 DON'T just DON'T.
Listen to smackie.
Please do not put up  with this any longer.
Men who like to keep women, insecure,  unstable and forever guessing where they stand, are not good men.
They have issues and YOU cannot fix them.
He does it because he likes it and the more you squirm, the more uncomfortable you get, the more he enjoys it.
Guys like this will ruin you, literally.
Stay far away whilst you still can.

Edited January 30, 2021 by elaine567

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, Yanoner said:

I asked him "So if X was to come over here and want to meet you would you do so?"
He replied "Yes totally, if it was a coffee or such"
I asked "Would I be invited?" 
He replied "Yes totally, I'd love the woman I love to meet my mates"

I actually was somewhat dumbstruck. 

You are concentrating on the wrong issue. To me it's not a big deal to have a female friend on text if everyone knows of the friendship. The issue is how he uses that friend to hurt you when you 2 have fights. THAT'S the issue. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Gaeta

[kendahke]

6 hours ago, Yanoner said:

It's being twisted around that she's a good friend and that's all it is. Comparing me talking to my ex-husband or ex partners of 2 years to this woman.

Your ex husband and ex partners are men you've had a demonstrable history with. This chick has nothing... just 2 months on you. She didn't matter enough for him, in a 60 day time period, to get off his butt and go meet her. He just strung her along.

He has no history with someone he's barely known.  AND he's been keeping her on a leash for those times when he wants to fight with you and he threatens to turn her into more as a means to control you.

I'm beginning to think he's got some real serious psychological issues--like narcissism--because he's way too keen on twisting all of this around to make it your fault when he's the one provoking you with this woman.

However, the answer isn't to continue on with him.

Quote

I asked him "So if X was to come over here and want to meet you would you do so?"
He replied "Yes totally, if it was a coffee or such"
I asked "Would I be invited?" 
He replied "Yes totally, I'd love the woman I love to meet my mates"

That's what he's saying now because he's trying to maintain his status quo and access to sex. What you should have asked was "even if she told you that she doesn't want to meet me, you'd still go see her?"---because I'll bet dollars to donuts that's exactly what he'd do.

Let her come to town and he will go MIA.

Put him on block. He's old enough to figure it out. Let him be mad and he can go take it to Miss2 Months.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

This man is emotionally abusive to you, OP. 

Stay broken up. He is awful. Let her have him; she's not getting anything special. 

[Yanoner]

23 hours ago, kendahke said:

Your ex husband and ex partners are men you've had a demonstrable history with. This chick has nothing... just 2 months on you. She didn't matter enough for him, in a 60 day time period, to get off his butt and go meet her. He just strung her along.

He has no history with someone he's barely known.  AND he's been keeping her on a leash for those times when he wants to fight with you and he threatens to turn her into more as a means to control you.

I'm beginning to think he's got some real serious psychological issues--like narcissism--because he's way too keen on twisting all of this around to make it your fault when he's the one provoking you with this woman.

However, the answer isn't to continue on with him.

That's what he's saying now because he's trying to maintain his status quo and access to sex. What you should have asked was "even if she told you that she doesn't want to meet me, you'd still go see her?"---because I'll bet dollars to donuts that's exactly what he'd do.

Let her come to town and he will go MIA.

Put him on block. He's old enough to figure it out. Let him be mad and he can go take it to Miss2 Months.

 

He only knew her 2 weeks, not months before me. 
I’m not going back to the relationship. There are other areas which are not right either. I can’t love and care for a man who speaks and treats me the way he does. It’s appalling. 

Thanks again for all you supportive words. :) 

[Cookiesandough]

Some people just have to have that back up piece in queue... 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[kendahke]

On 1/31/2021 at 3:41 PM, Yanoner said:

He only knew her 2 weeks, not months before me. 

even worse