I think I know the answer but don't want to admit it.

[foolmetwice88]

So, my wife and I have been married for almost five years, and have been friends since high school. I always had a crush on her in high school, but we never dated. She moved away after high school and got married, which ended in a divorce after not very long. Our friendship rekindled when she moved back and we began dating, and eventually got married. Shortly after getting married, we moved for my job and for her to be closer to her family, it was a win-win situation. When we moved, it was clear to us that it wasn't a permanent move, as my job would most likely take us elsewhere eventually. After four years, that time came and we moved to a new city and were there for about a year. For me, it was awful - bigger city, smaller living arrangement, all for about the same income. We were presented an opportunity to move back to our previous city and took it. I had left to begin work, and my wife was following a few weeks later. During that time, she started up an affair with a client of hers and this continued for almost 8 months. Finally, it was over just as covid began and we went into 'lockdown'. We noted how that probably saved our marriage and things had been great until recently. I found out she had a second affair beginning in mid-December through mid-January with a different guy. We had seemed to be making significant progress, but the second affair leaves me wondering where we go. Am I a fool to stay after two affairs in the timespan of a year? 

[Lorryborry]

Sounds to me like she was lonely with all the moving. Not an excuse. An explanation.   This doesn't mean she doesn't love you.  I'm sure ye can work this out with a good therapist.  Hope you get ok advice. Be careful where you seek advice as this Is an important matter for you and your wife. In my opinion you are better off with therapist as if you dont know the source  ppl may start really criticising your wife and really railing against her, not considering your best interests.  What she done was not a good decision but shes still the same person. I hope ye can work together to fix this. In my opinion you should discount any moralistic advice you get suggesting your wife cant be trusted.   That's for you to work out.  Therapy I recommend.   Really hope you guys fix it. 

[foolmetwice88]

1 hour ago, Lorryborry said:

Sounds to me like she was lonely with all the moving. Not an excuse. An explanation.   This doesn't mean she doesn't love you.  I'm sure ye can work this out with a good therapist.  Hope you get ok advice. Be careful where you seek advice as this Is an important matter for you and your wife. In my opinion you are better off with therapist as if you dont know the source  ppl may start really criticising your wife and really railing against her, not considering your best interests.  What she done was not a good decision but shes still the same person. I hope ye can work together to fix this. In my opinion you should discount any moralistic advice you get suggesting your wife cant be trusted.   That's for you to work out.  Therapy I recommend.   Really hope you guys fix it. 

Thank you. As I just found out about this yesterday, I'm probably more of a pessimist rather than an optimist at this point, but I do see the validity in the moving point you made. Her career was better in city #2 rather than city #1, which could definitely play a role in it. 

She has been seeing a therapist for a while now, and I recently have started seeing one again (needed to find the right fit). Marriage counseling is probably too far off at this point and we both need to work on ourselves/our needs. 

[Amethyst68]

It's too soon for MC, the reason is that very few are trained to deal with infidelity and will skip that and try to deal with 'marriage' problems, indeed you may find yourself being blamed. 

Ideally you both need individual therapy but minimal your wife needs IC to figure out her ways and not just the surface ones. You also need to take the time to consider your options, decide what information you need from her and also consult a lawyer to get a realistic view of what a divorce would look like. 

If your wife is looking to reconcile she'll give you the information you need but you don't need to commit to anything right now. 

[TooLateNow]

I am sorry to hear about what has happended to you and the terrible pain you must be suffering.

Whether or not you can work this out with your wife is up to you two, but both of you must put in a lot of effort.  You will need full disclosure.  Do not allow her to ignore this or try to sweep it under the rug or blame you in any way. If you allow her to get away with two affairs in one year without any accountability or consequences, you can bet for sure she will do it again.

Is she remorseful, as in truly sorry for what she did to you and empathetic about the pain she caused you? Or does she just regret that she got caught and caught again?  What, if anything, has she done to try to make amends?

How do you know that either or both of the affairs are truly over?

I also am curious why her first marriage ended so quickly.  Did she cheat on her first husband as well?  That surely would be a sign that she is unable to be faithful to anyone.

It may be true that she loves you, but it is doubtful.  She certainly does not respect you or treat you with respect.  Can you live with that?

Your wife does deserve criticism.  Her actions were awful.  There is nothing moralistic about saying that.  It is a clear lack of good morals on her part. What she has done is not what a good moral person would do.

She may well be "the same person," whatever that means, but she is certainly not the person you thought she was. 

Maybe she can change.  However, she should do a lot of work and put in a lot of effort and show you in very real and tangible ways that she has changed before you believe it.  Do not go by her word alone.  Obviously, her word is not worth much.  But it is not hopeless.  People can change, but they have to want to change and try extremely hard to do so.

I agree that you should seek help from a qualified therapist.  I do not think you should go to marriage counseling at this point.  Many marriage counselors are not particularly qualified or competent.  More importantly, they will often try to focus on what each of you has supposedly done wrong and try to tell you what you need to do to make the marriage better.  In other words, they will want to reward your wife for her cheating by trying to make you a "better" husband.  The problem here is not you; it is your wife.  She needs to fix herself first and you need to heal before you even consider marriage counseling.

There are also cheaters on this site who will be apologists for other cheaters.  Take their advice with a grain of salt, if you even give it that much attention. 

I also suggest that you not make any hasty or rash decisions.  Find out the truth, as best you can, get some therapy, and watch what your wife does VERY carefully and do not just listen to and rely on her words. And try to take care of yourself.

Best of luck to you.  

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by TooLateNow
typos

[trident_2020]

My vote is yes.

 

[foolmetwice88]

1 hour ago, Amethyst68 said:

It's too soon for MC, the reason is that very few are trained to deal with infidelity and will skip that and try to deal with 'marriage' problems, indeed you may find yourself being blamed. 

Ideally you both need individual therapy but minimal your wife needs IC to figure out her ways and not just the surface ones. You also need to take the time to consider your options, decide what information you need from her and also consult a lawyer to get a realistic view of what a divorce would look like. 

If your wife is looking to reconcile she'll give you the information you need but you don't need to commit to anything right now. 

Very good points. After the first affair we went straight to MC and it was not productive as the affair was on-going (unknown at the time to myself and our counselor). 

[foolmetwice88]

1 hour ago, TooLateNow said:

I am sorry to hear about what has happended to you and the terrible pain you must be suffering.

Whether or not you can work this out with your wife is up to you two, but both of you must put in a lot of effort.  You will need full disclosure.  Do not allow her to ignore this or try to sweep it under the rug or blame you in any way. If you allow her to get away with two affairs in one year without any accountability or consequences, you can bet for sure she will do it again.

Is she remorseful, as in truly sorry for what she did to you and empathetic about the pain she caused you? Or does she just regret that she got caught and caught again?  What, if anything, has she done to try to make amends?

How do you know that either or both of the affairs are truly over?

I also am curious why her first marriage ended so quickly.  Did she cheat on her first husband as well?  That surely would be a sign that she is unable to be faithful to anyone.

It may be true that she loves you, but it is doubtful.  She certainly does not respect you or treat you with respect.  Can you live with that?

Your wife does deserve criticism.  Her actions were awful.  There is nothing moralistic about saying that.  It is a clear lack of good morals on her part. What she has done is not what a good moral person would do.

She may well be "the same person," whatever that means, but she is certainly not the person you thought she was. 

Maybe she can change.  However, she should do a lot of work and put in a lot of effort and show you in very real and tangible ways that she has changed before you believe it.  Do not go by her word alone.  Obviously, her word is not worth much.  But it is not hopeless.  People can change, but they have to want to change and try extremely hard to do so.

I agree that you should seek help from a qualified therapist.  I do not think you should go to marriage counseling at this point.  Many marriage counselors are not particularly qualified or competent.  More importantly, they will often try to focus on what each of you has supposedly done wrong and try to tell you what you need to do to make the marriage better.  In other words, they will want to reward your wife for her cheating by trying to make you a "better" husband.  The problem here is not you; it is your wife.  She needs to fix herself first and you need to heal before you even consider marriage counseling.

There are also cheaters on this site who will be apologists for other cheaters.  Take their advice with a grain of salt, if you even give it that much attention. 

I also suggest that you not make any hasty or rash decisions.  Find out the truth, as best you can, get some therapy, and watch what your wife does VERY carefully and do not just listen to and rely on her words. And try to take care of yourself.

Best of luck to you.  

 

Thank you.

I think the part I'm struggling with the most, is whether or not the trust can be rebuilt where when she gives me 'full disclosure', that I truly believe her and don't wonder if she's hiding something. It frustrates me how badly she has messed with my emotional state by choosing the actions that she did. As far as I know, those relationships are over - and I actually do believe that, but who's to say she won't jump right into another one. I also wonder if she's just 'done' at this point, I'm not sure she would commit to the work to fix it. 

[Buffer]

She is done with this marriage sorry to say. 
 

[mark clemson]

4 hours ago, foolmetwice88 said:

We had seemed to be making significant progress, but the second affair leaves me wondering where we go.

I don't think you need to be wondering.

Any clues as to why her first marriage ended?

I think you feel in love with the wrong woman. Happens.

I would suggest not having any kids with her, as that will complicate matters. People can reform, but I doubt she wants to. Not yet anyhow. Affairs are "exciting".

If it was me, I'd walk away...

[DKT3]

Mark nailed it...what was the deal in her first marriage.  If it were me I would be out. If you are even considering a third go I would definitely contact her ex husband.  If she cheated there, its likely what you will deal with the entire relationship,  as long as it lasts. Also, I would imagine you've only caught her twice.

At this point, if we are being honest,  either your wife doesn't really care about you (forget that lonely stuff, since her first affair happened with her family close) or she sees you are weak, someone that will put up with whatever she does.

Also forget about what's best for her...start thinking in terms of what's best for you...its clearly how she operates. 

[DKT3]

32 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I don't think you need to be wondering.

Any clues as to why her first marriage ended?

I think you feel in love with the wrong woman. Happens.

I would suggest not having any kids with her, as that will complicate matters. People can reform, but I doubt she wants to. Not yet anyhow. Affairs are "exciting".

If it was me, I'd walk away...

Yeah, she is his high school fantasy girl. That image is hard to let go of. 

Funny side note about that. In high school I had an amazingly hot teacher in her early 30's. I was absolutely crushing on her. Some 20 years later, I ran into her with a couple of my friends and she still looked as amazing as ever. My friends were like "come on man, what are you seeing her with? 16 year old horny eyes"  hard to let go of fantasy 

[BaileyB]

Yeah, I’m sorry to say that a woman who has multiple affairs with multiple men is not committed to the marriage. 

You will really need to plan accordingly. Still, it’s hard to let go of the fantasy, that became reality, if only for a while...

[Lotsgoingon]

What does your wife say about the cause of her behavior?

To answer your question, yes you are being naive to think the marriage can be saved. But that doesn't mean you're wrong.

But what I'm not getting from you--and actually I think this is essential--is healthy rage. 

Why would you WANT to say in the marriage at this point? I'm really between the lines here, but were you this understated in your reaction to her affairs? Rage was appropriate. Not name calling and no violence, but shouting sure, ultimatums sure. 

Did you rage at her? My guess is that the earlier poster was right: you might need individual therapy. 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, foolmetwice88 said:

After the first affair we went straight to MC and it was not productive as the affair was on-going (unknown at the time to myself and our counselor). 

Again, this is not the behavior of a woman who values her marriage and her husband. 

For reconciliation to work, it takes two committed partners...

Edited February 4, 2021 by BaileyB

[usa1ah]

6 hours ago, foolmetwice88 said:

So, my wife and I have been married for almost five years, and have been friends since high school. I always had a crush on her in high school, but we never dated. She moved away after high school and got married, which ended in a divorce after not very long. Our friendship rekindled when she moved back and we began dating, and eventually got married. Shortly after getting married, we moved for my job and for her to be closer to her family, it was a win-win situation. When we moved, it was clear to us that it wasn't a permanent move, as my job would most likely take us elsewhere eventually. After four years, that time came and we moved to a new city and were there for about a year. For me, it was awful - bigger city, smaller living arrangement, all for about the same income. We were presented an opportunity to move back to our previous city and took it. I had left to begin work, and my wife was following a few weeks later. During that time, she started up an affair with a client of hers and this continued for almost 8 months. Finally, it was over just as covid began and we went into 'lockdown'. We noted how that probably saved our marriage and things had been great until recently. I found out she had a second affair beginning in mid-December through mid-January with a different guy. We had seemed to be making significant progress, but the second affair leaves me wondering where we go. Am I a fool to stay after two affairs in the timespan of a year? 

Yes..

 

Unless you like your wife f’in other guys. She has proven that she is a once a cheater always a cheater. 
 

What made you stay after the first affair?

 

What did she do to prove she would be faithful after the first?

 

I guess she lied her azz off about never doing it again. 
 

The thing to do is to expose the affair to everyone in your family and hers. Tell your close friends as well. Read up on and do the 180. This will help you to focus on healing. 
 

Then file for divorce, your marriage is over. 

[usa1ah]

5 hours ago, Lorryborry said:

Sounds to me like she was lonely with all the moving. Not an excuse. An explanation.   This doesn't mean she doesn't love you.  I'm sure ye can work this out with a good therapist.  Hope you get ok advice. Be careful where you seek advice as this Is an important matter for you and your wife. In my opinion you are better off with therapist as if you dont know the source  ppl may start really criticising your wife and really railing against her, not considering your best interests.  What she done was not a good decision but shes still the same person. I hope ye can work together to fix this. In my opinion you should discount any moralistic advice you get suggesting your wife cant be trusted.   That's for you to work out.  Therapy I recommend.   Really hope you guys fix it. 

This is so not true. When I was in the service my wife and I were separated for a year, neither of us cheated. Cheaters cheat because they have a lack of morals. They don’t care enough for their spouse to stay faithful to them. 

[usa1ah]

Foolmetwice88 do not use a therapist that puts ANY of your wife’s actions on you. You have nothing to do with her cheating. 
 

I am guessing you were just as lonely as your wife when the two of you were apart. Did you cheat? Why not? Your answer to why you wouldn’t is what your wife is lacking in regards to you. She doesn’t feel the same about you, she cheated twice to prove it. 

[usa1ah]

3 hours ago, foolmetwice88 said:

Thank you.

I think the part I'm struggling with the most, is whether or not the trust can be rebuilt where when she gives me 'full disclosure', that I truly believe her and don't wonder if she's hiding something. It frustrates me how badly she has messed with my emotional state by choosing the actions that she did. As far as I know, those relationships are over - and I actually do believe that, but who's to say she won't jump right into another one. I also wonder if she's just 'done' at this point, I'm not sure she would commit to the work to fix it. 

You are the one responsible for your emotional state not your wife. Just as she is responsible for her actions, you are responsible for staying with a cheater knowing what she is capable of. Your hurting and emotional state is completely on you now. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me as the saying goes. 
 

If you stay with your known cheater after this second time, you deserve what ever comes you way.

[usa1ah]

I will agree with others thinking she cheated on her first husband also. 

[Pottering About]

Hi, the title of your post says it all.  You know she is going to do this again, that you will NEVER be able to trust her and I don’t think she actually cares.

Divorce is never going to be pleasant, no matter how amicable it may be. However, it is going to be significantly less damaging or traumatic than living with a serial cheating wife who is just using you.

Good luck, be brave, stand firm.

[World Peace Guy]

Our society has totally messed up ideas on what love actually is. People think love is something that just happens, and you have no control over it. Yet, in the Bible, God commands us to love God, which means that love is something that we choose to do or choose not to do. What love is, in reality, is our priorities. What we choose to make the most important in our lives.

I don't know your situation, is you have anything you can't give her sexually or emotionally or something, but I don't really believe that is the case. I think she's just messed up in her thinking and her priorities and mentally, and she'll continue to cheat on you over and over again.

You need to decide if you'll be more happy without her than with her, knowing she'll hurt you over and over again. You are not her priority. She loves herself. She is her own priority.

[TooLateNow]

4 hours ago, foolmetwice88 said:

Thank you.

I think the part I'm struggling with the most, is whether or not the trust can be rebuilt where when she gives me 'full disclosure', that I truly believe her and don't wonder if she's hiding something. It frustrates me how badly she has messed with my emotional state by choosing the actions that she did. As far as I know, those relationships are over - and I actually do believe that, but who's to say she won't jump right into another one. I also wonder if she's just 'done' at this point, I'm not sure she would commit to the work to fix it. 

It is possible to rebuild trust to a possibly tolerable level but probably not completely. And in addition to full disclosure there would need to be full transparency and the ability to monitor. 

Honestly, the chances of reconciling look grim. If she is not willing to be fully committed to fixing herself and fully committed to the marriage, there is no hope.

But it is not impossible. My wife had three affairs with three different men. She hid the first two form me for decades. I caught her in the third but she did not at the time tell me everything. Then she insisted we sweep it under the rug. She also treated me like crap for many years thereafter. However, about two years ago I suggested we call it quits. Then she got it and changed completely. I was pretty skeptical for a long time but she has been totally consistent ever since. So it can happen.

However, a lot of damage was done. I have scars for sure and still struggle at times. But overall I am very happy and we are very happy.

My wife got help to fix her defects. She set up monitoring systems without me asking. That included home security cameras and phone and vehicle tracking. She has set boundaries for herself. She is there to talk when I need to talk and leaves me alone when I need her to give me space. She checks with me on how I am doing. She puts me first and my needs and desires before her own. She does everything I could possibly want from her whether I ask or not. I do the same for her. If your wife is not willing to do these things you cannot save the marriage because you cannot do it yourself.

A big part of the reason it all took so long was because I put up with her abuse. I did not stand up for myself. When I got therapy and finally stood up for myself, we were able to truly reconcile.

Don’t be me and take it lying down. Stand up for yourself. Insist on real and positive and immediate actions from and changes in your wife. Otherwise, I guarantee you will regret it. 

[foolmetwice88]

8 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

What does your wife say about the cause of her behavior?

To answer your question, yes you are being naive to think the marriage can be saved. But that doesn't mean you're wrong.

But what I'm not getting from you--and actually I think this is essential--is healthy rage. 

Why would you WANT to say in the marriage at this point? I'm really between the lines here, but were you this understated in your reaction to her affairs? Rage was appropriate. Not name calling and no violence, but shouting sure, ultimatums sure. 

Did you rage at her? My guess is that the earlier poster was right: you might need individual therapy. 

 

I have never got a solid answer as to the cause of the behavior, and receive a lot of 'I don't know' type answers, which led to my push for therapy for her. 

After the first affair, I did rage, but it was probably not enough. After the most recent, it was definitely escalated and now we are still living in the same house and avoiding small talk while the direction we go is determined. I don't believe I want to stay in this marriage, as I believe I deserve better than what I'm getting.. it's just a hard reality to accept and furthermore go through with in admitting that your marriage is over and to begin divorce preceding's.  

[foolmetwice88]

8 hours ago, usa1ah said:

Foolmetwice88 do not use a therapist that puts ANY of your wife’s actions on you. You have nothing to do with her cheating. 
 

I am guessing you were just as lonely as your wife when the two of you were apart. Did you cheat? Why not? Your answer to why you wouldn’t is what your wife is lacking in regards to you. She doesn’t feel the same about you, she cheated twice to prove it. 

Thank you. 

Yeah that makes sense, I didn't cheat when we were apart as it was only for two weeks and I respect the boundaries of our marriage and am a committed person.. she quickly moved as soon as I left. 

I agree, just a hard pill to swallow.