Update on NC - 'he went back to his wife after a year together'

[Snakesalive]

I’m saying that I didn’t fully appreciate my husband and I real Aw now I should have focussed  my energy on him and communicate d better 

[Beca L]

11 hours ago, Snakesalive said:

A fix in this case where he could have the best of both worlds ie you and his family was never going to be without some concessions  and I’m so sorry it resulted in heartbreak for you. 

I think his naivety in the beginning ultimately lead to the demise of our relationship. He thought his wife would accept the end of the marriage without a fight and they could remain friends, he thought she was so unhappy herself that she would be glad to see the back of him. He knew he sons would struggle at first but he thought that they would come around eventually and lastly he thought my kids would welcome him with open arms (he was their teacher) and that he could just move straight in with me. Of course it didn't happen like that and in the end he said there were just 'too many complications', his exact words to me so he returned to his old life. Something he knew so well, felt comfortable with and obs he'd have contact with his sons and be in there lives again. What he didn't consider was how he would feel without me in his life, thus the confusion and back and forth. He's accepted that he won't leave again so I think that is why he no longer contacts me. Sad but true. 

[elaine567]

8 minutes ago, Beca L said:

He thought his wife would accept the end of the marriage without a fight and they could remain friends, he thought she was so unhappy herself that she would be glad to see the back of him.

That seems to be quite common.
Uncared for, unloved man seeks out the arms of another woman.
Pity he never sussed out how his wife really felt about him, BEFORE he embarked on an affair and damaged so many lives in the process... 

[Snakesalive]

7 minutes ago, Beca L said:

I think his naivety in the beginning ultimately lead to the demise of our relationship. He thought his wife would accept the end of the marriage without a fight and they could remain friends, he thought she was so unhappy herself that she would be glad to see the back of him. He knew he sons would struggle at first but he thought that they would come around eventually and lastly he thought my kids would welcome him with open arms (he was their teacher) and that he could just move straight in with me. Of course it didn't happen like that and in the end he said there were just 'too many complications', his exact words to me so he returned to his old life. Something he knew so well, felt comfortable with and obs he'd have contact with his sons and be in there lives again. What he didn't consider was how he would feel without me in his life, thus the confusion and back and forth. He's accepted that he won't leave again so I think that is why he no longer contacts me. Sad but true. 

I really feel for you and can completely relate to everything you’ve said . Sadly the naivety seems a common theme my MM admitted to me they he had underestimated how difficult it would be and he just couldn’t cope with it all .  
 
there are no winners in these situations are there  and so many things go through your mind -unpicking everything, dissecting every conversation. Right now I just feel really sad and I know it’s only time and distance that will help. 

[Beca L]

33 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Pity he never sussed out how his wife really felt about him, BEFORE he embarked on an affair and damaged so many lives in the process..

Totally. I think at the time he left her their relationship had become so toxic, it was screaming and shouting and throwing things (I'm not blaming her, I realise now that his behaviour probably drove her slightly crazy). So in his defence it had gone beyond talking. Maybe a few years before he'd approached me, if he'd tried to talk about how he felt then it might have prevented things happening as they did. I sometimes believe that I've helped them, she changed because of the affair, I think it was a wake up call to her that she might lose MM. She lost weight, and seemed to get herself together. I think there's no drama any more from what I gathered when we last spoke, she was a rock for all the family whilst they coped with the death of his brother so I guess things are looking good for them. I guess I should be pleased they are still together, that their marriage was been saved but I just don't feel that way. 

[Beca L]

42 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

Right now I just feel really sad and I know it’s only time and distance that will help. 

I'm so sorry. I've been there so many times in the last few years, it's heartbreaking. NC is excruciatingly painful but the only way, time also helps. Don't be too hard on yourself, you have probably dodged a bullet and you are better off without him. Yes, we all make mistakes but love makes us blind and stupid sometimes. Take care xo

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Beca L said:

I think his naivety in the beginning ultimately lead to the demise of our relationship.

I would suggest that there is also a certain naivety for the OW. Most generally operate under the assumption that he will want to leave a relationship that is making him unhappy, because he tells you that he will. It’s dysfunctional. She has changed, she doesn’t love me anymore, we fight all the time, I am not happy... Who would ever think that he would chose to stay in a dysfunctional or unhappy relationship when he has another option... but, it happens. In much the same way that women are drawn back into dysfunctional, abusive relationships. It’s hard to leave sometimes. 

And because the MM assumes that the wife will accept the end of the marriage, I believe most OW also naively believe that the wife will just wish him well in his new relationship - completely underestimating the way some women will defend their family under threat.

Many OW seem rather naive in the way that they believe a man can move from one woman’s home to another’s - without having done the work to establish himself or grieve the loss of that relationship. As my mother used to say, a man shouldn’t move from his mother’s home to his wife’s home - the best men are those who learn how to support themselves and stand on their own. 

And many just completely underestimate the conflict, the loss, and the grief that results from divorce. The OW is waiting patiently, may have been waiting patiently for a long time, to begin her new and wonderful life with this man. She assumes he feels the same way - because he is moving away from something that was unhappy toward something new and wonderful. But, it must be so much more complicated for the MM. He has a completely different experience. Who can anticipate how difficult it will be to end a relationship with a woman with whom he has a shared history as they have shared every life experience since young adulthood? And, how difficult must it be to know that you have hurt and disappointed your children? How difficult to accept that your decision to have an affair and leave the marriage has forever changed your relationship with your children? The OW may understand that these things will be challenging, but I think many underestimate just how difficult this will be and at what cost to their own relationship, even if he does not go back. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[RebeccaR]

54 minutes ago, Beca L said:

She lost weight, and seemed to get herself together

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen an OW comment on a BS’s weight. It shows a total lack of understanding of what’s contributing to the affair. Unless there’s something grossly medically wrong, men don’t have affairs because their wives are overweight or less attractive than the AP. Nor do they reconcile because of weight loss. Granted, the BS may be under the same misconception. It makes me chuckle when an AP comments on the appearance of the BS, but it’s also slightly sad.

[Beca L]

11 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen an OW comment on a BS’s weight. It shows a total lack of understanding of what’s contributing to the affair. Unless there’s something grossly medically wrong, men don’t have affairs because their wives are overweight or less attractive than the AP. Nor do they reconcile because of weight loss. Granted, the BS may be under the same misconception. It makes me chuckle when an AP comments on the appearance of the BS, but it’s also slightly sad.

ok I get what are saying here and maybe I shouldn't have worded it that way. I agree it is sad that AP believe that, obs I don't think he went back because she had lost weight. What i was trying to make the point is that she became more attractive to him because she was happier, moving on, making changes, taking care of herself, going on holiday with their sons, moving house without telling him (more independent)etc. She was calm and together, remember she also had a boyfriend. I guess he saw more of the W he fell in love with and he was now no longer a part of his family anymore, they didn't need him, he couldn't take that.  

[Beca L]

35 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I would suggest that there is also a certain naivety for the OW.

Sorry, yes I should have said both of us. 

 

36 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I believe most OW also naively believe that the wife will just wish him well in his new relationship - completely underestimating the way some women will defend their family under threat.

I never believed that in the beginning at all, he'd told me of how she had behaved for a number of years, throwing plates, screaming shouting etc. She never struck me as someone who would just lie down and let her man be taken. I think this is the biggest red flag that I ignored. If you remember months after he left she physically attacked him with a stick, smashed up his cars, went at him with an axe etc. It's laughable now that he actually believed that things would just 'work out', she was going to do anything to defend her family. 

 

42 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Who can anticipate how difficult it will be to end a relationship with a woman with whom he has a shared history as they have shared every life experience since young adulthood? A

Very difficult indeed, that is why WS can't leave and why BS take back liars and cheats. 

[DKT3]

You do realize that statically speaking WS simply don't leave their marriages for the AP. Men leave less then women and women who do leave go back or attempt to go back to the marriage at a higher percentage then men. 

The reality is roughly 12% will actually leave, of that 12% about 65% attempt to return within 10 months. 

I think if OW would allow the slightest bit of logical analytics in they would quickly exit affairs. Unfortunately its a emotionally driven process so.....

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

You do realize that statically speaking WS simply don't leave their marriages for the AP. Men leave less then women and women who do leave go back or attempt to go back to the marriage at a higher percentage then men. 

The reality is roughly 12% will actually leave, of that 12% about 65% attempt to return within 10 months. 

I think if OW would allow the slightest bit of logical analytics in they would quickly exit affairs. Unfortunately its a emotionally driven process so.....

Most OW/OM don't set out to have an affair, I fell in love (stupidly) he left her straight away and we started a relationship. I wasn't really considering those statistics, I had no experience of affairs or there outcome. I wonder how many of the % that go back are still together in 1....,5.....10 years time. Also out of the % that go back how many of those have been married for longer than 15 years. people in long marriages find it harder to separate it seems. 

[RebeccaR]

Beca’s case is somewhat interesting because he left his wife straightaway. That’s actually what people say to do all the time here: “don’t cheat, split with your spouse first”. Seems like he was upfront that he was seeing someone, and he was separated. Aside from not waiting for an actual divorce, it’s hard to say anyone did anything wrong. That he went back to his wife could have happened even if he had been fully divorced. Seems like this wasn’t so much of an affair, rather a relationship that broke up due to him not being over his prior relationship.

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, Beca L said:

Most OW/OM don't set out to have an affair, I fell in love (stupidly) he left her straight away and we started a relationship. I wasn't really considering those statistics, I had no experience of affairs or there outcome. I wonder how many of the % that go back are still together in 1....,5.....10 years time. Also out of the % that go back how many of those have been married for longer than 15 years. people in long marriages find it harder to separate it seems. 

Going back to the spouses I believe is alot to do with the 80/20 stuff. After that 20% is devoid for years finding someone who offers it can be intoxicating,  however,  as time passes they begin to miss the 80% they had in the marriage,  couple that with the red flags from the AP which had been ignored,  becoming a factor the pull to return gets strong.

Beca, I'm a stats and facts guy, I know a ton when it comes to marriage,  divorce infidelities and so on, however I never recall one about staying together after one leaves and comes back. I would imagine they hold serve with those that end after affairs in the first place. Ultimately,  most betrayed husband's leave unfaithful wives  and slightly under half betrayed wives leave unfaithful husband's, though that number is on a steep incline. 

[Beca L]

7 hours ago, DKT3 said:

After that 20% is devoid for years finding someone who offers it can be intoxicating,  however,  as time passes they begin to miss the 80% they had in the marriage,  couple that with the red flags from the AP which had been ignored,  becoming a factor the pull to return gets strong

I can agree. I think in my case, i do genuinely believe that he loved me deeply and in some ways he probably still does but it wasn't just me, it was me and my 3 kids. My youngest was 8 at the time (now 12) and his kids had left home. I think he wanted to run off into the sunset with just me and he hadn't really factored in my family. As he said 'it was all too complicated'. My xH was also a big presence in my life as we share access to the kids. He wanted an easy life, he'd been through the teenage years and didn't really wanna do it again. He didn't want to live on his own either, I don't think he'd ever lived on his own as he'd been with W since he was 18, it wasn't really possible for him to move in with me permanently.   There were too many factors going against us, I guess some stronger individuals may have been able to see beyond that and push through it, but not him. As @RebeccaRsaid he wasn't really properly over his marriage, he hadn't really dealt with the feelings of loss etc  

[Beca L]

8 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

That he went back to his wife could have happened even if he had been fully divorced. Seems like this wasn’t so much of an affair, rather a relationship that broke up due to him not being over his prior relationship.

I agree, he could have gone back further down the line. Who really knows what happened, he left and I just have to get on with my life. I've learnt a terrible lesson and I feel like I'm still paying for it but I'm trying to look forward, I have 3 beautiful children and a supportive and loving family. Hopefully one day I will meet Mr Right !

[Prudence V]

11 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

Beca’s case is somewhat interesting because he left his wife straightaway. That’s actually what people say to do all the time here: “don’t cheat, split with your spouse first”. Seems like he was upfront that he was seeing someone, and he was separated. Aside from not waiting for an actual divorce, it’s hard to say anyone did anything wrong. That he went back to his wife could have happened even if he had been fully divorced. Seems like this wasn’t so much of an affair, rather a relationship that broke up due to him not being over his prior relationship.

I’ve always been wary of that viewpoint (bolded). To me, it’s just counterintuitive. You don’t burn your bridges and rush into a R with everyone who catches your eye when you’re single, so why would you do it if you were M? If every MP whoever had a passing fantasy for anyone else (real or imagined) left the M immediately, the divorce rate would be 100%. Rather, most people don’t act rashly; they wait it out to see if it’s fleeting or serious; whether it’s worth disrupting the home for the kids, etc. 
 

I know I’m just a single data point on here, but those OW from here that I’ve gotten to know IRL who are now, like me, M to their fAPs have certain things in common, one of which was that the MP didn’t leave the M immediately, but - on average - about 3 years into the A. They knew what they wanted, they knew the R was “real” (not “fantasy”) and they had had time to work through knowing what the consequences of leaving would be and - if possible - preparing the kids and themselves for leaving. Blending families has been a challenge for those in that position, and the larger family context of support has mattered there. Handling that kind of difficulty alone can be daunting. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Prudence V

[Beca L]

25 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

If every MP whoever had a passing fantasy for anyone else (real or imagined) left the M immediately, the divorce rate would be 100%. Rather, most people don’t act rashly;

I did know my xMM very well, we hadn't just met. I had known him for over 3 years prior to him originally approaching me and I'd worked alongside him for 2 out of those 3 years. I agree now that he did act rashly and recklessly however I had told him I wasn't happy being in an affair and that I didn't want to be in any sort of relationship with him unless he was separated so I guess that was why he left so quickly. Looking back I should have said sort your marriage out and once you are free let me know but I just don't think he would have done that. He didn't have young kids at home, his youngest was 18 and in the final year of school and i think life was unbearable at home, constant arguing etc he just wanted out asap. 

 

[Starswillshine]

Glad to hear you are doing well, Beca! You have come a long way. It will take time; it always does. I think it is even worse for these types of relationships. You have come a long way already, you will get there. 

[Beca L]

14 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

Glad to hear you are doing well, Beca! You have come a long way. It will take time; it always does. I think it is even worse for these types of relationships. You have come a long way already, you will get there. 

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the support, it's been tough but I know I'll get there eventually. xo

[Starswillshine]

17 hours ago, Beca L said:

(I'm not blaming her, I realise now that his behaviour probably drove her slightly crazy).

I think it is hard for the OW to accept that the MM might be the one making the BS angry, mad, crazy. He presents himself as this perfect, amazing man, with a crazy wife. And it is easy to. The OW doesn't see him daily, doesn't see how he treats his wife, doesn't see how HE hasn't made any effort in his marriage, romance, etc. And to the MM, he puts his effort into wooing another woman, and the woman responds. So in some MM's minds, it is indeed all his crazy, undeserving wife. 

But if everyone could take a few steps back for a moment and look at the entirety. And take the emotions out of it...

My xWH made comments after his affair about how he didn't feel like I gave a damn anymore about him. He would give examples. One was that I didn't greet him at the door any longer. Well... we had a rewind. I always greeted him at the door. And then... over time, he would come home, I would be standing there waiting to hug and kiss him, and I would just the "hold up 1 minute" finger... while he would lean against the counter dealing with his phone. Then he would gripe about something with the house (it was too hot, the kids were too loud, tv too loud, etc.). And maybe after standing there for 10 minutes, he would stop his distractions and I would then be noticed. After months of this, I slowly stopped greeting him at the door. He traveled for work a lot. It is hard to keep a connection while your spouse is gone all the time. But I tried. I planned monthly dates. I would send him sweet notes in the mornings and evenings. I would send him sexy notes, photos. And in response, I would usually get some 4AM, super slurred phone call.. when I had to wake up in a couple of hours to deal with our children and get them to school. Never would he say anything. When the affair came out, that was another thing. He said all those things were just a method to keep tabs on him..... 

Men really twist themselves to justify their behavior. And they use some pretty screwed up rationale. When I asked to Skype my husband on his trips, he thought it was because I wanted to make sure he was at his hotel and there was no woman with him. WHAT?!?!?!  But that's a cheater for you!

But anyway, to the point, his OW thought I was just an angry, bitter, jealous woman..... funny... because his actions are what put me there. 

[Prudence V]

2 hours ago, Beca L said:

I did know my xMM very well, we hadn't just met.

And, even so, he hadn’t resolved his issues. The advice often given here that the MP “leave immediately” for the AP is just bizarre, IMV. MPs need time to work through their issues around the M - unless it’s one of those “exit As” people describe on these boards where the MP is so desperate to leave, they hitch their wagon to the first passing possibility, use the AP to help them exit the M, and then dump the AP to pursue other options. Not a great outcome, either, IMV. 

IME, if MPs are going to leave the M and be with the fAP in a sustainable way, they need to work through all their stuff properly. They need to know why they’re leaving, and be sure about that, and what they’re leaving to, and be sure about that. It sounds like @Beca L’s xBF thought he had the former nailed, but had given less thought to the detail of the latter. 

[Snakesalive]

1 hour ago, Beca L said:

I agree, he could have gone back further down the line. Who really knows what happened, he left and I just have to get on with my life. I've learnt a terrible lesson and I feel like I'm still paying for it but I'm trying to look forward, I have 3 beautiful children and a supportive and loving family. Hopefully one day I will meet Mr Right !

 

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

I think it is hard for the OW to accept that the MM might be the one making the BS angry, mad, crazy. He presents himself as this perfect, amazing man, with a crazy wife. And it is easy to. The OW doesn't see him daily, doesn't see how he treats his wife, doesn't see how HE hasn't made any effort in his marriage, romance, etc. And to the MM, he puts his effort into wooing another woman, and the woman responds. So in some MM's minds, it is indeed all his crazy, undeserving wife. 

But if everyone could take a few steps back for a moment and look at the entirety. And take the emotions out of it...

My xWH made comments after his affair about how he didn't feel like I gave a damn anymore about him. He would give examples. One was that I didn't greet him at the door any longer. Well... we had a rewind. I always greeted him at the door. And then... over time, he would come home, I would be standing there waiting to hug and kiss him, and I would just the "hold up 1 minute" finger... while he would lean against the counter dealing with his phone. Then he would gripe about something with the house (it was too hot, the kids were too loud, tv too loud, etc.). And maybe after standing there for 10 minutes, he would stop his distractions and I would then be noticed. After months of this, I slowly stopped greeting him at the door. He traveled for work a lot. It is hard to keep a connection while your spouse is gone all the time. But I tried. I planned monthly dates. I would send him sweet notes in the mornings and evenings. I would send him sexy notes, photos. And in response, I would usually get some 4AM, super slurred phone call.. when I had to wake up in a couple of hours to deal with our children and get them to school. Never would he say anything. When the affair came out, that was another thing. He said all those things were just a method to keep tabs on him..... 

Men really twist themselves to justify their behavior. And they use some pretty screwed up rationale. When I asked to Skype my husband on his trips, he thought it was because I wanted to make sure he was at his hotel and there was no woman with him. WHAT?!?!?!  But that's a cheater for you!

But anyway, to the point, his OW thought I was just an angry, bitter, jealous woman..... funny... because his actions are what put me there. 

Thankyou it’s really interesting to hear this perspective. My exMM was probably guilty of some of these things too and I can see how that maybe led his wife to behave as she did. Her and i Seem to be polar opposites , she is sounds naturally very aggressive in her behaviour which I think he used to see as direct , but as time went on he saw it as being  plain aggressive. The natural trait she had probably was more pronounced because she was frustrated with him.   I’ve heard since they split up she is much calmer and supposedly so he is -whether they will get back together and maintained that new found calmness who knows 

 

[Snakesalive]

9 minutes ago, Prudence V said:

And, even so, he hadn’t resolved his issues. The advice often given here that the MP “leave immediately” for the AP is just bizarre, IMV. MPs need time to work through their issues around the M - unless it’s one of those “exit As” people describe on these boards where the MP is so desperate to leave, they hitch their wagon to the first passing possibility, use the AP to help them exit the M, and then dump the AP to pursue other options. Not a great outcome, either, IMV. 

IME, if MPs are going to leave the M and be with the fAP in a sustainable way, they need to work through all their stuff properly. They need to know why they’re leaving, and be sure about that, and what they’re leaving to, and be sure about that. It sounds like @Beca L’s xBF thought he had the former nailed, but had given less thought to the detail of the latter. 

I think you’re right it potentially can lead to a better outcome if anyone involved in an affair has time between leaving they’re husband/wife and  setting up with their new partner -unfortunately things just don’t always work out that way . Ultimately I think sometimes it’s easy to convince ourselves that the love for this person is enough to cope with all the challenges but in the real world and taking the emotion out of it this is just not how it is .  I’m so glad to have found this forum it’s helped me see things from so many different angles and accept more about my situation. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Snakesalive

[Starswillshine]

3 minutes ago, Snakesalive said:

Thankyou it’s really interesting to hear this perspective. My exMM was probably guilty of some of these things too and I can see how that maybe led his wife to behave as she did. Her and i Seem to be polar opposites , she is sounds naturally very aggressive in her behaviour which I think he used to see as direct , but as time went on he saw it as being  plain aggressive. The natural trait she had probably was more pronounced because she was frustrated with him.   I’ve heard since they split up she is much calmer and supposedly so he is -whether they will get back together and maintained that new found calmness who knows 

 

It is hard to say what came first not being part of their relationship. It is always the chicken or the egg argument. It was interesting when my ex husband laid out all his grievances to me, or like he called them, his frustrations that made him ripe to be "open to advances from other women." Every single one of them I had a completely different viewpoint. Not to say I was a perfect saint of a wife. No doubt, I had my flaws. I know many, and I'm sure I am still missing some. But I did try to keep my marriage fresh and amazing. And at the end of the day, my ex-husband still will maintain he was really happy in our marriage, and it was a great marriage. 

To another point about these men though.... my xWH was a serial cheat. I think he would do best in open polyamorous relationships. For a long time, he was "single" but dated many women. Well, now he has moved one of those girlfriends in. He told me, he missed having someone in his corner, fully in his corner. Someone to fully commit to, so they moved in together. However, he just got back from visiting his ex in another state. He still sees the OW once a year who lives in another country. He is still very much involved in many other relationships, but under the guise that he is monogamous to his girlfriend. I cannot get involved as I would only be the crazy ex wife. It is sad to watch. He is using his girlfriend because he loves that someone at home who adores him and offers him stability. But he loves the instability of many women..... I would guess there is a fragment of men out there who are a lot like my ex husband. And they are extremely deceitful.