Feel like i'm going crazy

[Lorryborry]

10 hours ago, josedelamuerte said:

Ain't that how it always goes...

I don't really see how this would be a problem if you were to untangle yourself from this man's life.

I wholeheartedly second looking for a new job. You don't have to move far away. Far enough so you won't bump into each other on the street.

This could be a great new start for you.

Positive talk good on you. Yes it can be an opportunity for sure.  It will get better. Hes not worth this. Let wife keep him. 

[Lorryborry]

5 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

Wow. Honesty is what I needed and a reality check is what I got. 

I didnt really look at what I had created as a fantasy but I see where you are all coming from.
How do you purposefully disconnect with someone whom you feel so connected to and so similar to?! 

I know the clock is ticking as you point out and I think that is in my mind that I likely do need to find someone who will love me and make a family with me before its too late.

Its hard to see how toxic something is when you are right in the middle of it.

Lately the more I am with him, the more I realise I love him but I dont like him. I used to be completely blindsided by him but more and more lately I am seeing him for what he is. 

Yes her interference has made me mad but I think its in a heartbreak kind of realisation way. I need to end it and my brain is perhaps taking over but this is a massive thing to do. He slips back into his untouched life and mine has to be completely rebuilt. Im normally pretty savvy and I cannot believe I am where I am, I think I thought this would have a very different ending for a very long time. Its very sad really.

This is classic way this ends up. He only cares for him. Hes maintained his life. You will build yours from scratch. You are well able. She will have the cheating husband so dont be too jealous. Hes no prize

[Lorryborry]

50 minutes ago, Luna66star said:

I agree with the previous comments.

I will add it's all about the man's ego too.  Problems at home, wife not giving them attention they crave.  They don't feel "wanted" anymore as a man.  This really hurts a man's ego.

They look for a bandaid solution - another woman's attention. Once they get it, men are satisfied & and go about their daily life.  They aren't interested in building a relationship with this woman.  When the other woman gets upset or makes demands, they are irritated.

Men seem to be able to compartmentalize their relationships.  Top priority being the wife.  Low priority the side piece.

Walk away now

 

 

You said it. Top priority is wife.  They just want extra attention.   This should be taught at school ha ha. Seriously it should be on curriculum dont get involved with married men the same as dont take lifts from strangers.  They are horribly using selfish ppl out there.  Pity the spouses dont kick them to kirby but they usually manage to worm back home

[DKT3]

10 minutes ago, Lorryborry said:

You said it. Top priority is wife.  They just want extra attention.   This should be taught at school ha ha. Seriously it should be on curriculum dont get involved with married men the same as dont take lifts from strangers.  They are horribly using selfish ppl out there.  Pity the spouses dont kick them to kirby but they usually manage to worm back home

Should we need someone to tell you that?

Also what do you call the women who get involved with married men? Especially those married themselves?

OP i know you feel robbed,  but stuff like this doesn't help, anything that minimizes your responsibility for you situation doesn't help you get to happy and healthy. 

[Seliana]

2 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

I think there is a lot of truth in him encouraging her, he gets to feel wanted by two women and I'm not sure that's offensive to any man. And double whammy it keeps me at arms length and keen.

I get how backwards it all sounds and I'm not proud of what I've done or am doing but I needed some help clarifying where I am and what I am feeling.

Its fine to say that the karma bus may find me but I'm not sure you've been in this position then. It already feels like karma has got me for something else and put me in this situation. I know I have put myself here but honestly I don't think any other woman expects to find herself where she does find herself. You can be completely swept away and I read so many times of the manipulation that men use to make us think this is special or that its unique and they make us feel like we really do get them, they say the don't connect with their wives, they say they don't sleep with their wives and I tell you its very hard to look at someone who is looking you directly in the eyes and believe that they are lying to you. Its not until other things come out that you realise that you're not special at all and it was all lies but sometimes you are then in very over your head.

I know I'm not unique and I have been trying to build the strength to tell him to leave me alone but when my whole life is built into his its hard to know where to start.

I realise I made it into a fantasy, something its not but I really believed it for a while. I'm heartbroken.

Look, I'm not trying to kick you while you're down but you made a series of choices that put you in this horrible position. You are quite right that I haven't been in your position, and I will never knowingly do so. Many married or otherwise committed men have come at me, and I was insulted that they could think I was so lacking of character and morals to aid and abet their adultery. It made me look at them in a completely new, unfavorable way, because I thought they were decent men before that. 

I challenge you to ask yourself why the attention of a man who can't fully commit to you was so overwhelming that it swept you away and took away your agency. Do you like the idea that you are so much better than his wife that he had to manipulate you into a secret 7 year long arrangement? I can't even call it a relationship, because it doesn't seem like you're getting anything out of this but pain. 

I think you are worthy of love, do you?

 

[mark clemson]

15 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

Any thoughts

 It's interesting because you actually probably see more of him than she does. I suspect folks above are right that the constant contact is some form of/attempt at "defending her territory" by his wife and keeping the fact that she's around at the front of both your minds.

You seem to be focused on the "jealousy"/irritation of hearing a lot from her. Perhaps in some way you are focused on the present and shunting the prospect of the ending of this off and avoiding considering it. Eventually (presumably) he and wife ride off into the sunset of retirement, while you are left alone. So by thinking about the happiness or unhappiness day by day, perhaps you are (unconsciously?) postponing dealing with the larger strategic picture (and what you'd need to do to address it)?

Perhaps some version of the sunken-costs fallacy and/or fear of being alone, and/or stubbornly trying to "get him to" ultimately choose you (as a form of validation) that you are unconsciously perhaps holding out for, and/or some form of self-sabotage. It seems like some mixture or other of those things is going on. (There is also the perhaps tricky mechanics/logistics as well as the emotional hit of detaching from him.)  The overall "weight" of all this (in whatever particular configuration it has taken for you) has kept you in the situation for this long.

It's clear from what you say he'll happily continue this but not leave his wife, and so your chance for a family with someone will eventually pass you by. It seems like that's what you should be focused on, unless it's really not that important to you.

15 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

I hear a lot of affairs where the woman didn't even know he had a wife.

I don't think those women are particularly happy about that situation if/when they eventually find out, though. Far from it.

[trident_2020]

15 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

she seems to be a permanent fixture in my life

Yeah well you're a permanent fixture in her life, whether she knows it or not.

She may have had no choice- but you certainly did.

 

[Jen_tully]

I don’t think his wife is marking her territory or warning you off. She is his wife, spouses call each other and share things. There isn’t any restrictions on when they can call each other! Also you are incorrect, she is not like the bit on the side just because she calls her husband and inquired into his day. You don’t need to be the bit on the side either and I hope one day you respect yourself not to continue on with this toxic situation.

[Lorryborry]

7 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Should we need someone to tell you that?

Also what do you call the women who get involved with married men? Especially those married themselves?

OP i know you feel robbed,  but stuff like this doesn't help, anything that minimizes your responsibility for you situation doesn't help you get to happy and healthy. 

Because believe it or not no one wants to have caught feelings for a married person.  No one set out thinking it was OK to ever cheat.  No one to blame but themselves.  However can I explain (not excuse) how it can happen (still wrong not excusing it not saying its right).  You intellectually and morally know it's wrong.  But maybe a time in life comes when no one wanted or expects it where your primary relationship has become disconnected,  or you are single and at a vulnerable point in life. Enter this person who is flooding you with warmth and support and everything feels good. Maybe for the first time in ages. It's a slippery slope. Not a right move. Not moral not right in any way. But as you have not known this world(affairs,cheating) or the traps you can fall into, it's very easy to write it off as friendship or a great connection or whatever.  That's where big mistakes and poor decisions are made.  DKT3 I'm not being argumentative or saying we are victims. We are not. We made the decisions but they poor. It's on no one else. But what I mean by on school curriculum is I honestly think this should be highlighted more,like campaigns for mental health etc. Educating people  on what to look out for. That might sound crazy. But it might stop ppl making foolish and painful choices.  

[Lorryborry]

I'm afraid , whatamidoing,  you will have to build your life up with ppl who you dont have to see in secret.  Seeing married people is really a road to pain. I've been in an EA.  Work with him. In a business.  I'm married.   I was stupid and it caused nothing but pain. Iv known them 5yrs.  2yrs ago we got close. I've always tried to write it off as close friends. But this site helped me.  You will get tough advice but I think we need to hear it. It's very painful to lose that connection but we got to grow through this pain.   The mm will always have life in tact and compartmentalised.   And their life to rejoin when the affair ends.  We just got to put bitter lesson behind and rebuild. Difficult but true.  I'm in pain I miss him very much but I'm glad I'm free.  It wont be easy whatam but neither is the other shameful life. It's a good thing they go back to wives. It's where they belong.  Sending hugs

[Snakesalive]

23 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

Can I have some help please? I know this will likely divide opinion but does anyone else feel so completely happy in their situation one day and then swing to a cant handle it moment the next. My MM is not a talker- he was when we first started this but this disappeared when we thought it was more serious- a way of dealing with guilt perhaps.

I'm having one of those weeks when I'm really struggling with what I think is jealousy but I cannot be quite sure.

 

 

You said you weren’t sure if what you are feeling is jealousy. It sounds to me like there is no question here you are definitely feeling jealousy and resentment and why wouldn’t you? You’ve been in this relationship a long time there’s a sense of entitlement because of that and  the way he behaves towards you. The fundamental difference in all this is that however long you stay in this relationship, whatever he says you are not married to him and therefore are entitled to nothing -merely the crumbs he chooses to throw your way . Harsh words I know and im Only able to say them because I’ve just come out of a very similar situation. 6 months ago your post could have been mine. 
Believe me the pain , jealousy etc will only get worse the more you stay . Be clear about what you want -do you want him to leave his wife ? I think you’ve said that won’t happen so staying knowing that will never happen is just torturing yourself. Are you thinking given time he will leave so you don’t want to give up now  just in case ? 

[Beca L]

4 hours ago, Lorryborry said:

But maybe a time in life comes when no one wanted or expects it where your primary relationship has become disconnected,  or you are single and at a vulnerable point in life. Enter this person who is flooding you with warmth and support and everything feels good. Maybe for the first time in ages. It's a slippery slope. Not a right move. Not moral not right in any way. But as you have not known this world(affairs,cheating) or the traps you can fall into, it's very easy to write it off as friendship or a great connection or whatever.  That's where big mistakes and poor decisions are made. 

This is so true and I recognise how, I, myself got involved with xmm. I had no idea about affairs and how they start etc, I agree OW/OM like myself should have had better boundaries but I'm trying not to look back anymore but forward. It is a trap that so many of us fall into and hopefully @Whatamidoing.can start to recognise what is going on and how badly this man is treating her and his wife. She needs to try and get the courage from somewhere to walk away, value yourself, you deserve better.

[Lorryborry]

10 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 It's interesting because you actually probably see more of him than she does. I suspect folks above are right that the constant contact is some form of/attempt at "defending her territory" by his wife and keeping the fact that she's around at the front of both your minds.

You seem to be focused on the "jealousy"/irritation of hearing a lot from her. Perhaps in some way you are focused on the present and shunting the prospect of the ending of this off and avoiding considering it. Eventually (presumably) he and wife ride off into the sunset of retirement, while you are left alone. So by thinking about the happiness or unhappiness day by day, perhaps you are (unconsciously?) postponing dealing with the larger strategic picture (and what you'd need to do to address it)?

Perhaps some version of the sunken-costs fallacy and/or fear of being alone, and/or stubbornly trying to "get him to" ultimately choose you (as a form of validation) that you are unconsciously perhaps holding out for, and/or some form of self-sabotage. It seems like some mixture or other of those things is going on. (There is also the perhaps tricky mechanics/logistics as well as the emotional hit of detaching from him.)  The overall "weight" of all this (in whatever particular configuration it has taken for you) has kept you in the situation for this long.

It's clear from what you say he'll happily continue this but not leave his wife, and so your chance for a family with someone will eventually pass you by. It seems like that's what you should be focused on, unless it's really not that important to you.

I don't think those women are particularly happy about that situation if/when they eventually find out, though. Far from it.

Very good advice for everyone.  I think theres  a hit to take detaching but it's better take it now than have life blow up down the line .  These ppl are not last ppl on earth and they are not that great . For me I enjoyed the validation I was attractive. And loved him wanting more off me regards physical (how absolutely sad).    Its an enormous belt to ego to see you dont really matter to them.  They really dont care.   As they have family and will retreat to it and never be alone. It's just a shyt situation to be in. I'll probably get criticized but I absolutely think it's easier for mm.   I do think the woman gets too emotionally involved.   Its really a dreadful situation to stay in really. For the sake of feeling good for a very short time. It's really disrespectful to ourselves.    The best thing is to walk away with some dignity in place. It's a really really shyt place to be for a woman.   It can eat up your life. 

[Lorryborry]

35 minutes ago, Beca L said:

This is so true and I recognise how, I, myself got involved with xmm. I had no idea about affairs and how they start etc, I agree OW/OM like myself should have had better boundaries but I'm trying not to look back anymore but forward. It is a trap that so many of us fall into and hopefully @Whatamidoing.can start to recognise what is going on and how badly this man is treating her and his wife. She needs to try and get the courage from somewhere to walk away, value yourself, you deserve better.

Thanks Beca L. That's my take on it.  You know it's wrong but you slide into it. Not being a victim here but I'm trying to explain this is how it happens. Everyone craves being found attractive and a good looking man or woman who you have loads in common with comes along and who doesnt enjoy that as you never want to cheat but one will always be more dominant and want more. For me I I absolutely did not want anything to do with affairs or cheating.  Not my world not in my zone . It really is an awful situation to get into.   And you (well for me) dont quiet know wtf is happening but by that time the woman has caught feelings. I'm sorry I keep distinguishing between men and woman but I believe this.  I learned about affairs off this website. I knew nothing about this world. Its eye opening stuff.  Whatamidoing will get out. It wont be easy it will be so sad and lonely for a while but secret is advance life in other directions as affairs eat time and energy. I'm just about picking myself up from it. Iv to see him alot as a business (some will say that's an excuse, but it's not black or white when money livelihoods and practicality come into it.).  If I was just working in some place with him i would be out the door and I'd never want to see him again. It's hard having the contact. I get bursts of anger but I control it and never show it. I'm very business like and he is same. It kind of loses its shine that way. Hes stopped initiating .  Its hard but I am much much better off. Whatamidoing will get out and life will improve 

[Beca L]

1 hour ago, Lorryborry said:

Whatamidoing will get out and life will improve 

I hope so because he really is no prize or trophy. As I keep saying should deserves better and she should want that for herself. The next few months and maybe years will be hard and she will struggle but it will be worth it to rid herself of this parasite who is using her. 

[Bittersweetie]

I think another aspect of this situation is that Whatamidoing has been in this position for seven years now. She has been hoping for something to change, she has invested a lot of herself into the waiting. It's a classic example of the sunk cost fallacy. She has been waiting for the bus to arrive for years now, but instead of looking for another way to travel, she keeps waiting for the bus, thinking it's just right around the corner. We've all been in this position in some way...and at some point we have to cut the cord and start on a different path. It's hard and it sucks but isn't moving forward in life better than continuing to wait? 

[Amethyst68]

It does the OP and any other woman who reads this any good to push the 'poor me' and 'it's all the MM's fault' arguement. 

Yes everyone can be attracted to other people, even when married. What happens after that is a conscious decision and in an affair that is a conscious decision to lie! MW are no different to MM, they took the same vows and are partaking in the same deception their spouses in who knows how many lies every day. 

Can I remind you that MW often return to their husbands without telling them of their affair!

Anyway, to blame it all on the MM is doing nothing but making victims of these women. Let's be clear, they're not victims, they made their own choices, not good ones granted but that's how people learn and grow in life. 

I'm sure the OP can get out of this if she wants, she's smart enough to be a partner in her own business after all.  

OP,  I would recommend thinking about how you can disconnect from your business. Can you buy him out or the other way round? Sounds like a good time to make a new start. 

[Amethyst68]

5 hours ago, Lorryborry said:

As they have family and will retreat to it and never be alone.

Don't you also have a husband that you profess to have always loved and who never left your thoughts, even when you were with your MM? Hypocritical argument to say the least.

[BaileyB]

In a sense, the bus has arrived though... Things are set up pretty well, they work together and carry on like a couple all week long... As someone said earlier, he may in fact spend more time with OP than he does with his wife. As affairs go, there is a lot to like about this situation. 

I could be wrong, but I don’t sense a whole lot of dissatisfaction with the set up or even that she is particularly hopeful that they would one day be together. She decided a long time ago to accept this situation. This seems to me to be mostly irritation that his wife is intruding on the time they have together. She would rather not have the wife calling so often because it reminds her that he actually belongs to another woman...

Edited February 5, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, Lorryborry said:

   Its an enormous belt to ego to see you dont really matter to them.  They really dont care.   As they have family and will retreat to it and never be alone.

Thanks for liking my post. Just one point - the "not caring" really (IMO) isn't true as a blanket statement.  I have zero doubt that there's actually a pretty wide spectrum, ranging from folks who are basically in love with their AP, or feel they are, through (I would guess) those who like them but are in it for "fun and excitement" as much as emotion, all the way through to "users" who are really only looking for sex. We certainly have had MM here post about very strong feelings for their AP.  And I suspect that same spectrum will apply to women as well.

The commonality is that actually voluntarily leaving the marriage is apparently rare for MM. So they may like/love their AP, but not enough to leave. And even that certainly isn't always true. In a way that should be no surprise, as leaving a marriage is difficult, and practical matters very often trump sentiment in life. We pretty much all wish there were no wars, too, right?

Anyhow, just thought I'd mention that.

[Lorryborry]

2 hours ago, Amethyst68 said:

It does the OP and any other woman who reads this any good to push the 'poor me' and 'it's all the MM's fault' arguement. 

Yes everyone can be attracted to other people, even when married. What happens after that is a conscious decision and in an affair that is a conscious decision to lie! MW are no different to MM, they took the same vows and are partaking in the same deception their spouses in who knows how many lies every day. 

Can I remind you that MW often return to their husbands without telling them of their affair!

Anyway, to blame it all on the MM is doing nothing but making victims of these women. Let's be clear, they're not victims, they made their own choices, not good ones granted but that's how people learn and grow in life. 

I'm sure the OP can get out of this if she wants, she's smart enough to be a partner in her own business after all.  

OP,  I would recommend thinking about how you can disconnect from your business. Can you buy him out or the other way round? Sounds like a good time to make a new start. 

This getting out of business thing is really too  black and white.  It's not the same as leaving a job.  Plus there are others involved .  Also just because someone doesn't want to blow up a load of their life doednt mean they cant wise up. That's giving the AP too much power IMO. And suggesting it's not possible to correct actions.  It would be easier yes but it's not impossible to cut free and stop interacting in a certain way.  

[pepperbird2]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

In a sense, the bus has arrived though... Things are set up pretty well, they work together and carry on like a couple all week long... As someone said earlier, he may in fact spend more time with OP than he does with his wife. As affairs go, there is a lot to like about this situation. 

I could be wrong, but I don’t sense a whole lot of dissatisfaction with the set up or even that she is particularly hopeful that they would one day be together. She decided a long time ago to accept this situation. This seems to me to be mostly irritation that his wife is intruding on the time they have together. She would rather not have the wife calling so often because it reminds her that he actually belongs to another woman...

This!
The only change I would make to this is that he "belongs" to his wife.
He doesn't belong to anyone. He doesn't go back and forth between the two because of his wife and her influence, he does it because he can and it's what he wants to do.

[Whaatamidoing]

I am in no way a victim and am here sadly because I have nowhere else to turn.

I am not in a situation where I am happy with it except for her interrupting me when I am with him, I see how that sounded but I was concentrating on something that had become the forefront of my thinking.

I want to get out, I want to have the strength to tell him to never touch me again but I am not there yet. I believe I love him, however the realisation that he won't ever leave has seemed to have dawned on me, somewhere I suppose I keep thinking he'll come to his senses and realise he can't live without me but its not true. I am younger than him and now all he is looking towards is the future with her and not with me. I think part of me came here because I couldn't believe he could do that to me, I know a cheater, look at what he/we are doing to his wife but surely he should just finish it with me, its clear he doesn't want me, its clear she takes priority in EVERYTHING and I suppose I just wanted someone to say that's a bit rubbish, he shouldn't treat you like that but what I'm faced with is why are you surprised.

I'm so heartbroken because I'm realising everything has been a complete waste of time, if I leave the business I truly have nothing to show for my life for the last 7 years. I've worked so hard.

Its making me question why he would do this to me, other than because he can I can't think of an answer why anyone would pretend for that long that they liked you and felt something towards you. Surely that's overkill just to get your end away.

I can't even look at him or reply to his messages at the moment. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Whaatamidoing said:

I suppose I just wanted someone to say that's a bit rubbish, he shouldn't treat you like that but what I'm faced with is why are you surprised.

It is rubbish, and he shouldn’t treat you like that, but...

As hard as it is to hear, he is under no obligation to do right by you. He is looking out for his own best interests, and in so doing he has no problem engaging in behavior that is hurtful to BOTH you AND his wife. The difference being of course, that you know him for the man he truly is (even if you didn’t want to believe his truth) while his wife is perhaps under the misguided notion that she has a loyal and devoted husband. THAT is truly unfair. 

1 hour ago, Whaatamidoing said:

Its making me question why he would do this to me

Respectfully, the question to ask is not “why would he do this to me...” although I appreciate that this is where you are in your process right now. He did this to you because he was selfish, and entitled, and because you allowed it. As above, the better question is why did you allow him to treat you this way? And this is where it gets hard... You did this because there was also something in it for you. You were equally selfish and entitled. But while you have created this fantasy love story with the wonderfully happy ending, he has been moving through life blissfully enjoying the attention of two women. Seven years he has been able to continue this charade... 

There is a lot to untangle here. You need to decide if you are going to stay in this affair or end it. You need to decide what you are going to do about the business. And, you need to decide how you are going to move forward and build a life of your own... These are hard things and they will take time. You are at the beginning of this journey, and you would be wise to surround yourself with support. I hope your first call is to a counsellor... 

Edited February 6, 2021 by BaileyB

[pepperbird2]

2 hours ago, Whaatamidoing said:

I am in no way a victim and am here sadly because I have nowhere else to turn.

I am not in a situation where I am happy with it except for her interrupting me when I am with him, I see how that sounded but I was concentrating on something that had become the forefront of my thinking.

I want to get out, I want to have the strength to tell him to never touch me again but I am not there yet. I believe I love him, however the realisation that he won't ever leave has seemed to have dawned on me, somewhere I suppose I keep thinking he'll come to his senses and realise he can't live without me but its not true. I am younger than him and now all he is looking towards is the future with her and not with me. I think part of me came here because I couldn't believe he could do that to me, I know a cheater, look at what he/we are doing to his wife but surely he should just finish it with me, its clear he doesn't want me, its clear she takes priority in EVERYTHING and I suppose I just wanted someone to say that's a bit rubbish, he shouldn't treat you like that but what I'm faced with is why are you surprised.

I'm so heartbroken because I'm realising everything has been a complete waste of time, if I leave the business I truly have nothing to show for my life for the last 7 years. I've worked so hard.

Its making me question why he would do this to me, other than because he can I can't think of an answer why anyone would pretend for that long that they liked you and felt something towards you. Surely that's overkill just to get your end away.

I can't even look at him or reply to his messages at the moment. 

I know you're heartbroken,right now, and that's a terrible place to be. The good thing is that this can be a time for you to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and really reflect on if what you are getting out of this relationship is worth the pain and sadness.

Just based on your own words, it doesn't sound like it. You sound like you are in a lot of pain, and to be frank, I don't think anyone deserves to feel that way. Yes, you are where you are because of a series of choices you made, but the upside of that is that if you chose to be in this relationship, you can also choose to walk away, hard as that may be. At first, it may feel like your drowning in grief, but that will fade a little bit more with each passing day. It may not feel like it now, but if you do that, a day will come when you'll look back and wonder what you were ever thinking, staying tethered to him for so long.
There's a whole wide world of guys out there who will treat you well, care for you and not leave you hurting.
What makes this guy worth your pain?