Thinking of Cheating

[DKT3]

16 hours ago, elaine567 said:

It doesn't work like that.

She is right, cheating changes relationships.  Many people who have been cheated on consider cheating. Most of them never would have without their partner having cheated.  

Most couples don't actually reconcile their marriage,  they simply stay together.  Thats clearly what happened here.

[Anon883388]

usa1ah,

 

AGAIN, I never blamed husband for his affair being the reason I feel the way I do. Please go back and check the original post and replies because I’m not quite sure where you’re getting this idea that I’m blaming husband and seeking revenge. I have never once said that. I’m genuinely confused and think it’s possible that you may have missed the idea. 
 

But since we are in the topic, husband cheated a couple of years ago. It indeed left me feeling as if he didn’t love me and valued the other woman over me. That he chose her in a sense. I went to individual therapy and was able to work through these emotions a bit. 
 

I never sought revenge on husband for his affair because I honestly still love him and was optimistic. Maybe a bit naive that it was a thing of the past and that he would never do it again. It did however leave me feeling a bit insecure (with his feelings towards me). Something I could not have predicted would happened before reconciliation. But even through these emotions I never wanted anyone else. 
 

Maybe it’s possible that my new insecurities has me over analyzing his every interaction with me, or lack of. But whatever the case, I have no motivation to cheat solely because he did. It has been years, if that were true I could have cheated immediately after or even while separated. There has been some time between his affair and now. Friend and I have been friends since before it all and there was never a desire. 

I simply feel unloved, unnoticed, and unappreciated. Imagine lying beside someone each night while they sleep with their backs towards you after being isolated in the garage for most of the day. Or them walking in a room and excitedly greeting our child but I get a “hi”. Days after days. Or putting on your best outfit to run errands with someone and they barely even notice. That’s why I feel the way I do, not because he cheated. Maybe the two are connected, I don’t know, but I can assure you I am not seeking revenge. 

If you would go back and quote/highlight where I blamed husband it would be great because I’m not sure where you made that assumption.
 

Like many people have said, cheating is never okay. I am planning to try counseling to work through some of these feelings and hopefully address some things I’ve expressed here. I really love my husband but if counseling doesn’t work, I’m prepared to walk away without cheating and not to be with friend either. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Anon883388

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Anon883388 said:

 I simply feel unloved, unnoticed, and unappreciated. Imagine lying beside someone each night while they sleep with their backs towards you after being isolated in the garage for most of the day.

Unfortunately you posted this in the infidelity forum, so that's what people are addressing and jumping on.

It seems more like your husband is completely checked out. That seems to be the real issue, no?

Is he a problem or heavy drinker? Why else would someone camp out away from you in a garage all the time?

[Indigo Night]

There comes a time when you have to let go, and it sounds like you are there OP. You can love your husband, but if he doesn't reciprocate the emotion there isn't much you can do to change things. He seems to have checked out of your marriage, and is just going through the motions of being married.

Staying together for your daughter may seem like the right thing to do, but if your marriage is only a facade, you are not doing her any favors. She will not grow up seeing a healthy and loving relationship, and it is likely to impact her romantic relationships in the future. My parents stayed tougher for their children, and I truly wish they hadn't. I grew up with parents who tolerated one another. It wasn't a good thing, in any way.

If your husband doesn't want to actively participate in your marriage, it is time to seriously think about whether or not this is how you want to live. Either end your marriage so that you can find someone who will love, and appreciate you, or accept that you are married to a man who shows you little to no affection. Don't cheat. It will only make an already difficult situation worse.

Of course the other man is treating you like a queen. He wants something he can't have. If he is making himself seem like a better option than your husband, he really isn't respecting you, your marriage, or your family. Tread lightly; chances are he really isn't as nice as you think he is.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Indigo Night

[usa1ah]

3 hours ago, Anon883388 said:

usa1ah,

 

AGAIN, I never blamed husband for his affair being the reason I feel the way I do. Please go back and check the original post and replies because I’m not quite sure where you’re getting this idea that I’m blaming husband and seeking revenge. I have never once said that. I’m genuinely confused and think it’s possible that you may have missed the idea. 
 

But since we are in the topic, husband cheated a couple of years ago. It indeed left me feeling as if he didn’t love me and valued the other woman over me. That he chose her in a sense. I went to individual therapy and was able to work through these emotions a bit. 
 

I never sought revenge on husband for his affair because I honestly still love him and was optimistic. Maybe a bit naive that it was a thing of the past and that he would never do it again. It did however leave me feeling a bit insecure (with his feelings towards me). Something I could not have predicted would happened before reconciliation. But even through these emotions I never wanted anyone else. 
 

Maybe it’s possible that my new insecurities has me over analyzing his every interaction with me, or lack of. But whatever the case, I have no motivation to cheat solely because he did. It has been years, if that were true I could have cheated immediately after or even while separated. There has been some time between his affair and now. Friend and I have been friends since before it all and there was never a desire. 

I simply feel unloved, unnoticed, and unappreciated. Imagine lying beside someone each night while they sleep with their backs towards you after being isolated in the garage for most of the day. Or them walking in a room and excitedly greeting our child but I get a “hi”. Days after days. Or putting on your best outfit to run errands with someone and they barely even notice. That’s why I feel the way I do, not because he cheated. Maybe the two are connected, I don’t know, but I can assure you I am not seeking revenge. 

If you would go back and quote/highlight where I blamed husband it would be great because I’m not sure where you made that assumption.
 

Like many people have said, cheating is never okay. I am planning to try counseling to work through some of these feelings and hopefully address some things I’ve expressed here. I really love my husband but if counseling doesn’t work, I’m prepared to walk away without cheating and not to be with friend either. 

I reply last night wasn’t aimed at you. I believed you the first time you replied to that statement earlier. 
 

I do understand what you are feeling, taken for granted, unwanted, not in the top ten priority of partner. Been there for awhile now. The only thing that woke my wife up was telling her she could have a divorce any time she wanted it. I was finished being the only one trying to make it work. 

[colingrant]

I won't even get into the moral of your consideration as others will do so and I think you already know your contemplating a violation of epic proportions. That aside, your concerns prohibiting you from the other option (divorce or separation) won't be avoided necessarily. The affair aftermath is typically very costly and can't be avoided. Everyone responds differently, however if your husband finds out and he considers infidelity a deal breaker, your reasons for avoiding are already blown out of the water and then some.

Both of you would possibly be less well of financially, and expenses earmarked for private school and other perks are now going to lawyers and covering court costs. Not to mention separate living conditions means less money intended to pay for two separate residences. In other words you've already contemplated the benefits of an affair. Now you may want to tally up the costs so that you can make a cost/benefit analysis before you embark on the affair.

It would be smart to include costs related to post affair counseling for your daughter minimally, as she prepares to see her beloved dad 50% of the time. With where you are, you also would need to see a therapist. Of course, should your daughter become aware of your betrayal to her beloved dad, I'm not sure any cost could match the pain of a daughter seeing her mom betray the dad she loves. This cost is not monetary but an emotional one carried lifelong by your daughter and shaping how she sees relationships. If anything, at least consider her before giving your love to someone else at the expense of your family. 

The expense is financial, emotional and at times physically costly. Just add it up and match it up against a few hugs, sex and feels. Compare the two and see where you come out.  

[vla1120]

@Anon883388 Two things stuck out at me while reading this thread.

#1 - your daughter has separation anxiety when your husband goes to the store. It sounds like your daughter is in tune to what's going on in your marriage? 

#2 - I am assuming you know your husband's schedule? If so, make the appointment with the marriage counselor when you know he can attend with you. 

I don't know about you, but when I reconciled with my husband after he cheated, I was resentful and distant. In turn, he became distant. We spent another 18 years together after he cheated, before I finally left and filed for divorce. I thought staying was what was best for my daughters. In reality, we showed them what an unhealthy relationship looks like. 

I'm not saying your marriage is beyond help, but you definitely cannot work on your marriage while you are having these thoughts about your friend. You have to make a decision. If you do love your husband and want to stay in the marriage, you need to get to the bottom of why he has withdrawn his affection. If he won't take the initiative and make an appointment, then you need to do that and tell him when it's time for the appointment. If he is still distant and non-cooperative, then that might be your answer, but at least you will know you gave it your all.

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, vla1120 said:

@Anon883388 Two things stuck out at me while reading this thread.

#1 - your daughter has separation anxiety when your husband goes to the store. It sounds like your daughter is in tune to what's going on in your marriage? 

#2 - I am assuming you know your husband's schedule? If so, make the appointment with the marriage counselor when you know he can attend with you. 

I don't know about you, but when I reconciled with my husband after he cheated, I was resentful and distant. In turn, he became distant. We spent another 18 years together after he cheated, before I finally left and filed for divorce. I thought staying was what was best for my daughters. In reality, we showed them what an unhealthy relationship looks like. 

I'm not saying your marriage is beyond help, but you definitely cannot work on your marriage while you are having these thoughts about your friend. You have to make a decision. If you do love your husband and want to stay in the marriage, you need to get to the bottom of why he has withdrawn his affection. If he won't take the initiative and make an appointment, then you need to do that and tell him when it's time for the appointment. If he is still distant and non-cooperative, then that might be your answer, but at least you will know you gave it your all.

Likely the same reason you did. 

I believe that once you've been cheated on you retract and look for the WS to give you what you need to be comfortable staying.  Many WS see this as you not wanting it so they also retreat.  Nothing gets done as time passes.  Both waiting for the other to make a move. 

 

[Mrin]

Tangent: I'd just like to go on record that OP's feeling ignored and unappreciated story is a text book example of how a good, full body hug and a few minutes of looking each other with "you matter to me" eyes and attention each day can head off a whole universe of pain and suffering. It wouldn't solve it for sure, but it would "unsieze" the relationship and they'd be light years away from where they are now. 

[Pottering About]

Hi. Very sorry if I have missed this in a previous post but have you actually asked your husband if he wants to remain in this marriage? If he says he does, this gives you the ideal opportunity to lay out the behaviours he displays that make you think he may have checked out. Again, apologies if you have already explained this.

You said in your last post you were prepared to walk away from your marriage and not be with your friend at all. I thought this was a positive thing to say because, heaven forbid you do get divorced, you are showing you will not use the friend as a crutch and that any future relationship you may have together will be because that is what you want, not a knee jerk doomed to failure bonding. 
 

I really do feel for you because your preferred outcome of a happy marriage appears to be in the hands of your husband which, in some ways, leaves you quite powerless as he has to be the one who wants to change.

[SRCSRC]

I believe you indicated in your last post that the two of you will seek counseling and that if that doesn't work you will end the marriage without cheating on your husband.  That is exactly what you should do.  Whatever happens, you can hold your head up high and not be branded by anyone as a cheater.  That will gain you points in subsequent relationships after you divorce.  Maintain your dignity and focus on your marriage.  If it doesn't sufficiently improve, leave.  Do not muck up everything by getting involved with another man.  As someone pointed out, it would most likely end your marriage somewhere down the line.   

[Anon883388]

Yes, I’ve asked him if he wants to remain married. He always says yes. I asked if he still loves me because I cannot feel the love. He had a one word response “yes.” I’ve initiated hugs, smiles, friendly conversation, kisses, etc. He is responsive to all of these things but it doesn’t mean as much to me when I am the one doing it every time. I am not saying that I stopped because I am matching his energy but because when you’re the one always initiating the lovey gestures, it starts to tear away at you a bit. 
 

This morning I woke up before he did as I am the one who gets daughter dressed for school and he will wake up shortly after and drops her off. I was already on my conference call as he came down from showering. He normally speaks even if it’s just a dry hi. I asked if he was ok because he was also sighing and slamming doors. He said he was fine but I know he’s not. He seems upset with me but we were fine last night. We laughed (on separate couches) over a Netflix series. This morning he’s so disconnected from me. 
 

Also to note, I didn’t wash the dishes after making daughter’s breakfast because I was in a bit of a rush to get online for work. He angrily washed the dishes while grunting. I asked if he was okay and he said yes. 
 

I don’t know why this hit me so much this morning. I began to cry on the call. With my camera off of course. I just don’t understand why he is so annoyed and distant with me when I haven’t down anything to him, not intentionally. And if I have done anything without knowing, it hurts that he won’t communicate when I extend to open the communication. 
 

i dried my tears and pushed through. Wondering why I’m still in this situation. I only kept thinking that I want to call the friend. Not to discuss the issue but just as a pick me up. 
 

Then husband returned from dropping off daughter with my favorite coffee and pastry. Still not saying anything to me. It’s weird. It’s exhausting and at this point I just want out. 
 

 

[vla1120]

8 minutes ago, Anon883388 said:

It’s exhausting and at this point I just want out.

I can understand that feeling. When you are trying to meet your partner half way and are met with grunts and sighs, it makes it hard to want to continue to put in the effort. I would say, at the very least, you start IC to help you navigate this situation. I still think you should make an appointment for MC and if he refuses to attend with you, then there is not much more you can do. I believe you need to tell your friend to give you some time and space to determine where your marriage is going to go from here. It's very hard to concentrate on fixing a marital issue when you have a carrot dangling off to the side.

[Wiseman2]

26 minutes ago, Anon883388 said:

he was also sighing and slamming doors.

He angrily washed the dishes while grunting.

Don't play into passive-aggressive behavior. Ignore him. Stop begging for crumbs. Ignore him. You need to pull way back. Go to individual therapy and confidentially contact an attorney. He's abusive and you Know this.

[SRCSRC]

The two of you desperately need to start counseling.  Your male friend is compounding your problems.  You are comparing your husband to your friend all the time, it seems.  Sorry, that just simply not fair.  It is not good.  What does your husband think of your relationship with your friend.  Maybe he thinks there is something going on.  Maybe he doesn't care.  Who knows. All of this needs to be fleshed out immediately in counseling.  He doesn't communicate or initiate any physical contact.  This needs to be explored.  His one word grunts are not sufficient.  There is so much to delve into.  You need a very good MC.  Someplace in your threat you stated that you are still madly in love with your husband.  That statement was kind of shocking in light of the fact that you are contemplating going to bed with another man.  That just doesn't jive.  Go see a MC NOW.  

[notbroken]

You wrote that you wanted to save your marriage.  I promise you that an affair won't do that.   Fix it or break it.   Either get counselling and fix your marriage or divorce.  An affair is NEVER the answer. 

[Thunder27]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:02 AM, Anon883388 said:

I’ve initiated hugs, smiles, friendly conversation, kisses, etc. He is responsive to all of these things but it doesn’t mean as much to me when I am the one doing it every time. I am not saying that I stopped because I am matching his energy but because when you’re the one always initiating the lovey gestures, it starts to tear away at you a bit

I haven't followed any of this thread but I will say I understand how shitty this feels and I'm sorry you're experiencing this. This happened to me recently; I was also incredibly In love, and there's nothing more lonely than it not being reciprocated. It burns you out emotionally. However, I agree with the others: don't cheat. It won't fix anything. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Thunder27

[JRabbit]

Who looks after the daughter while hubby sits in the garage all night? Where is the seperation anxiety then?

I can tell you from experience, staying together in a loveless miserable marriage is worse for the kids than separating and being happy.

[MsJayne]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:24 PM, Anon883388 said:

Correction, husband just came to bed and asked if I needed anything to drink but rolled over with his back towards me to go to sleep. I’m here wanting to be held. Maybe I’ve gained to much weight or something. Really feeling unwanted right now. 

Not to be rude, but has your appearance changed much since you got married? I know a lot of women put on weight when they have a baby and many have trouble getting rid of it, and in turn a lot of men resent it but don't say anything because they're afraid it'll hurt their partners feelings, (which it does).  The other thing that it sounds like, a dropping off of interest and meaningful interaction, is it possible that he has depression?  You don't really sound like you want to have an affair, more like you're being pushed in that direction because you're not getting the benefits of a partner that marriage is supposed to provide.  Given that your husband had an affair a few years ago I think if you do the same it will probably eventuate in divorce. Then again it may give you back the feeling of being attractive that's so necessary to our self esteem, just depends on whether you can handle the guilt and the sneaking around.  Have you considered just outright asking your husband if he wants to separate because that's what his lack of interest suggests? 

[NYAG]

My immediate response is talk to your husband. Without open communication your marriage will not last. Find out what's going on. You cannot build a relationship on silence.

[merrmeade]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:02 AM, Anon883388 said:

Yes, I’ve asked him if he wants to remain married. He always says yes. I asked if he still loves me because I cannot feel the love. He had a one word response “yes.” I’ve initiated hugs, smiles, friendly conversation, kisses, etc. He is responsive to all of these things but it doesn’t mean as much to me when I am the one doing it every time. I am not saying that I stopped because I am matching his energy but because when you’re the one always initiating the lovey gestures, it starts to tear away at you a bit. 
 

This morning I woke up before he did as I am the one who gets daughter dressed for school and he will wake up shortly after and drops her off. I was already on my conference call as he came down from showering. He normally speaks even if it’s just a dry hi. I asked if he was ok because he was also sighing and slamming doors. He said he was fine but I know he’s not. He seems upset with me but we were fine last night. We laughed (on separate couches) over a Netflix series. This morning he’s so disconnected from me. 
 

Also to note, I didn’t wash the dishes after making daughter’s breakfast because I was in a bit of a rush to get online for work. He angrily washed the dishes while grunting. I asked if he was okay and he said yes. 
 

I don’t know why this hit me so much this morning. I began to cry on the call. With my camera off of course. I just don’t understand why he is so annoyed and distant with me when I haven’t down anything to him, not intentionally. And if I have done anything without knowing, it hurts that he won’t communicate when I extend to open the communication. 
 

i dried my tears and pushed through. Wondering why I’m still in this situation. I only kept thinking that I want to call the friend. Not to discuss the issue but just as a pick me up. 
 

Then husband returned from dropping off daughter with my favorite coffee and pastry. Still not saying anything to me. It’s weird. It’s exhausting and at this point I just want out. 

The way you are handling his passive aggressive non-communication makes me feel so frustrated for you. It's got to be worse for you. 

After my husband had an affair and I discovered so much about him and myself, one of the discoveries was how I'd been driven by his moods and reactions for years. I could never have turned things around on my own, but through therapy I changed and then we started changing. It's a work in progress, but the first thing to go was the passive-aggressive bullsh-t. Now - if I realize what's going on - I call it immediately and do something to get him into the present and talking to me. Sometimes it's enough just to say please tell me what you're feeling instead of disappearing on me. Other times, if it's been a few hours and I realize - he's doing it again! - I get more excited. But I never make it a fight unless he's really hurting me and even that is not a fight, but I let him see and tell him how it makes me feel. And it's not a repeat situation because I do try to say genuinely how it's affecting and what it means. I feel discouraged and demeaned that he doesn't give me the credit that I'll try to understand. Sometimes I talk about how destructive it is to our intimacy and trust and we can't afford to allow that again. It's always different but truthful. 

Why aren't you letting him see? It's not easy, I know. It's very difficult to match the words with what you need to say and he needs to hear. You have to appeal to many levels. You have to try to get him to empathize with how it's affecting you. He has to feel that you really want to understand what's bothering him as well. 

One thing I got out of therapy was the importance of first describing what's happened. Usually I don't have to go much further because he takes it from there and gets out of his system whatever was bothering him. If not, I say how it's made me feel; then, why it's not good and finally, what I'm going to do about it if we can't handle things another way. I don't usually get that far. He's a lot better and understands what's at stake now.

This may not be what works for you, but I really recommend you find a good therapist to talk to who can give you feedback about what s/he is hearing and what - based on training and experience - this can mean for you. It will help you and by extension your marriage.

I

Edited March 18, 2021 by merrmeade
emphasis on therapy

[TedMosbySexArchitekt]

On 2/5/2021 at 7:07 AM, Anon883388 said:

Hi. I’ve been with husband 10 years total, married 7. We are both in late 30s. We have 6 yr old daughter. I loved my husband dearly. Really loved him but he had an affair a few years ago. We separated for a year and it was ugly. 
 

We got back together and things were great. He’s always been attentive and nice in the way he speaks of me. 
 

Recently (a year), he’s been showing less affection. I can’t remember the last time we kissed. We are intimate once a month, mostly him coming on to me. He doesn’t touch me or hug me much. I don’t think he’s cheating because he doesn’t really go anywhere and leaves his unlocked phone around

 

However, I’ve been feeling undesired by his lack of affection lately. I have a guy friend that I have know for years. He has always shown interest in me but I never paid him any attention because I loved hubby. Friend is very respectful and not aggressive with me in the times we’ve hung out in the past (public mutual friends events) but he’s very clear that he wants something with me and not just sex. I helped him through his father’s passing so friend always tells me how thankful he is for that.  He says I’m the perfect woman.

Recently, I’ve been more interested in guy friend. Simply because if I tried a new lip color, husband doesn’t notice but friend does. Husband doesn’t compliment my hair after I’ve been at the salon for hours. Friend does. I’ve tried more fitting clothes and friend is “wowed” husband doesn’t notice. It doesn’t feel like husband notices me anymore. Like he isn’t attracted to me anymore. Friend makes me feel wanted and that’s all I want from husband. Friend makes me feel sexy. 
 

ive mentioned going to counseling to husband and he agrees but never brings it back up when asked what day works. I’ve blatantly let husband know that I’m unhappy and not feeling loved and would like more attention. I’ve pointed out that it’s getting to the point where I may leave him if it doesn’t change. Things change for a few days but husband is back to being distant. 
 

I don’t want to leave husband because my daughter is sad if husband just goes to the store without her. She’s also in private school and money is tight. I can afford to live on my own but would have zero extra money left after bills. 
 

Friend wants me to come by and I’m tempted to go. Simply to feel desired again. What should I do?  I want to feel wanted and go to friend’s house. It may lead to sex I’m sure. But for me it’s for emotional and not physical reasons for wanting to cheat. What do I do?

Difficult situation.

1. Be aware that most relationships end this way, and whoever else you feel drawn to will also lose attraction at some point.
Try to spice things up, try to make your marriage more of a best friend situation. Try everything in your power to make this marriage not only work, but as good as possible. But also keep on mind that this eternal passion from movies is not normal. Desire doesnt work that way.

Regarding that friend, consider the probability and severity of the consequences. Maybe it is the right decision to feel some fire again, maybe it will end up having catastrophic consequences. Hard for me to assess. Will you be rational about it or will you feel guilty for eternity? Will you be able to enjoy a stable yet boring life afterwards? Will you spiral into promiscuity and short term fun and end up lonely and depressed? 
If you dont know yourself that well, the traditional way might be the safest and best.

[merrmeade]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:02 AM, Anon883388 said:

Yes, I’ve asked him if he wants to remain married. He always says yes. I asked if he still loves me because I cannot feel the love. He had a one word response “yes.” I’ve initiated hugs, smiles, friendly conversation, kisses, etc. He is responsive to all of these things but it doesn’t mean as much to me when I am the one doing it every time. I am not saying that I stopped because I am matching his energy but because when you’re the one always initiating the lovey gestures, it starts to tear away at you a bit. 
 

This morning I woke up before he did as I am the one who gets daughter dressed for school and he will wake up shortly after and drops her off. I was already on my conference call as he came down from showering. He normally speaks even if it’s just a dry hi. I asked if he was ok because he was also sighing and slamming doors. He said he was fine but I know he’s not. He seems upset with me but we were fine last night. We laughed (on separate couches) over a Netflix series. This morning he’s so disconnected from me. 
 

Also to note, I didn’t wash the dishes after making daughter’s breakfast because I was in a bit of a rush to get online for work. He angrily washed the dishes while grunting. I asked if he was okay and he said yes. 
 

I don’t know why this hit me so much this morning. I began to cry on the call. With my camera off of course. I just don’t understand why he is so annoyed and distant with me when I haven’t down anything to him, not intentionally. And if I have done anything without knowing, it hurts that he won’t communicate when I extend to open the communication. 
 

i dried my tears and pushed through. Wondering why I’m still in this situation. I only kept thinking that I want to call the friend. Not to discuss the issue but just as a pick me up. 
 

Then husband returned from dropping off daughter with my favorite coffee and pastry. Still not saying anything to me. It’s weird. It’s exhausting and at this point I just want out. 

The thing you’re not doing is really talking. You’re not describing his behavior to him, then describing how that makes you feel and why and THEN demanding an answer. I don’t mean “demand” but not giving up until you get him to talk to you, until you are sure he understands how you feel AND what you are considering doing about it. In my opinion, you don’t get to “just want out” until you are sure that you have done everything you can to make him understand. You ask him if he wants to remain married, and he always says yes. You asked if he still loves you because you “cannot feel the love” and he says yes. And that seems to be the end of it. If you went to a marriage counselor, what do you think s/he would say at this point? She’d say how does that make you feel? And what does that look like? What is he doing? And then he’d have to answer when she asks him the same things.

But the thing is the rules of engagement don’t even begin until you make sure that you each understand the other. Forgive my bluntness, but you guys don’t seem to have a clue that you should do that, much less know how. Your rules of engagement seem to be that if one of you shuts down, then that’s it. Game’s over. The other one has to stop as well. You don’t get another turn to say anything because he decided it’s over. That’s another thing that a marriage counselor helps you both with. They make you say to each other in so many words that working it out matters to you and you’re committed to try. 

The problem is that you are not having that conversation or any other it seems, for that matter. You HAVE to get through to him that you are so sad, desperate, frustrated and lonely that you OFTEN think you “just want out.” You are actually doing the same thing he is doing by not communicating how far you’ve gone and what you’ve considered doing about it. Doesn’t he have a right to know what you’re planning?  He is actually as clueless about how you feel as you are about how he feels. You have timidly asked him if he loves you but you haven’t told him that you lie awake sobbing with longing for him and hiding your pain. (By the way, why DO you hide your pain?) Have you told him that you are so desperate for someone to touch you that you’ve thought about having an affair, but you really are just craving that closeness with him? If he loves you as he says he does, if he’s not totally focused on himself then some sort of exchange should begin.

You really could start anywhere, Anon, and tell him any part of any of the posts you’ve written here, but the first place you start is describing his behavior to him. Yes. Do not think that he realizes how he comes across because obviously he doesn’t know since you don’t understand it and he just keeps doing it. Then, you realize, of course, that the same thing is true for you? What have you really shown him? You turn your back and cry. You ask if he loves you because you cannot “feel the love.” Keep going! Tell him what you tell us. THAT is what you see, and he needs to know what you see before he can change. He needs to know that he’s communicating something maybe he doesn’t actually intend.

Frankly I would tell him all of it. You seem so timid and polite about REALLY letting him know your feelings. You say you don’t feel the love and leave it there, but there are so many more things you can say to get him to SEE what you see and hear how desperate you are. So many more ways you could ask if he cares. So many ways you could convey to him the sorrow you feel, the loneliness, the longing for him. There are many ways that people open up their hearts, but the one way we all share is words. It is the only way you’ll get him to go to marriage counseling with you is if he realizes what he has to lose and that he’s about to lose it. But until you let him know that, you simply have not done your part. I think it’s really unfair to come here and tell us that you’re ready to leave him because he doesn’t seem to want you and you haven’t even told him. That’s not right. 

What happens with a marriage counselor is that they get you both to, first, describe what you see the other spouse doing. You see, right now you assume that he knows because of the little things you’ve said. And what passive/aggressive people who slam doors and bang things and then answer in mono-syllabic denials that anything is wrong - what they usually think is that, of course, you know what you’ve done to cause them to pout and fume instead of telling you. Believe me, that is what he thinks. In fact, it’s what you both think. 

So the first way you break that pattern is you tell him exactly what you saw him do and what you understood and what you didn’t. You get him to agree that this behavior is not communication, first of all. It’s him expressing frustration for something, and it makes you tense and worried. You really think it might help him to talk about it as well, but whatever it is, you say - and this is the second part after describing it - you say how it makes you feel - whatever it is at the time. You feel shut out, like he must be mad at you, but whatever it is, he’s certainly not engaging with you and it leaves you feeling irrelevant, etc. (your words). Then, you say that you need to know if that matters to him because you are dying inside and you cannot go on like this.

[HappilyMarried]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:29 PM, Anon883388 said:

I agree. I personally do not do or say anything to friend that I wouldn’t do in front of husband. I don’t flirt or make sexual gestures. Friend does sometimes however (very rare). I normally laugh and ignore. 

He has outright told me that he would sleep with me because he’s attracted when I asked him while vulnerable and separated. I know friend would jump at the chance of being intimate because most men would with someone they’re attracted to. Friend has just seemed to value our friendship more than his urges to sleep with me. Simply because I’ve helped him through break ups and father passing. 

 

I definitely talk to friend more  but that’s also because friend reaches out to me more than husband 

 

 

On 2/5/2021 at 7:56 PM, HappilyMarried said:

 

It just looks like you talk to your friend a lot when you are not with your husband. Do you ever talk to him when you and your husband are sitting around in the family room or when you are in bed at night. Maybe your husband don't show any concern about your friendship because he doesn't realize how much time you all spend talking or being together. Maybe you could start to connect more with your husband if you spent more time talking and doing things with him. However it sounds like you are going to have to make the decision of who you want to devote your time in the not to distant future.

Hey @Anon883388I wanted to follow up since you had not provided any updates in a couple of months to see how things were going and if there had been improvements in your marriage. I quoted the above past post and highlighted a few things after going back and rereading the thread I thought I might make another suggestion. The original one above was in relation to your time spent talking or visiting your friend and doing so while not in the presence of your husband. However maybe if some of your more just basic friend conversations took place in front of your husband maybe if he saw someone else showing interest in you and you responding to it that could light a fire under him and let him see that he needs to show you the love and affection you desire. He may actually feel these things but just fell into the mundane life some married couples drop into and might just need to be reminded that hey I need to step up my game and give her the love and attention she deserves or see may start looking somewhere else.

One other thing I wanted to bring up in response to your response the following statement you made in your reply to my comment "He has outright told me that he would sleep with me because he’s attracted" in this quote was this said in person or in a email or text because you had said that your friend had said anything that you would not care for your husband to see. I think this text or statement might be something he might not think to good about.

Best of luck! Look forward to hearing a update.

[Indigo Night]

From personal experience, talking to a husband who doesn't think he is doing anything wrong, or that there are any problems in the marriage, is almost impossible. They think you are being dramatic, or won't let things go, or worse. So, talking to the husband might not resolve any issues, and potentially cause more.

I hope the OP has found something that works for her in their marriage. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Indigo Night