He needs substance.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, lisaden said:

Hopes and dreams ARE the real substance.

Um, no...
Usually it is best to use the true meaning of a word rather than make your own definition

[d0nnivain]

57 minutes ago, Firstlady07 said:

We have met a few times. We have things in common but I'm an introvert.  I'm very reserved and I'm slow to start talking and opening up. I'll talk a little or throw in a few opinions but let him do most of the talking.  He is more of an extrovert in that way. He's definitely a talker and not just surface level.. He's always asking what am I thinking or to share my thoughts.  He shares a lot. 

Are you truly an introvert or are you just shy & reserved?  Those words are not synonymous. 

If he's asking about your thoughts & now he's saying he wants more substance, he's telling  you that in his opinion you are not contributing enough to the conversation.  He is hoping to get to know you better -- your likes, your hopes & dreams, your opinions.  Basically he's asking you to talk more about anything & everything. The subject doesn't matter. He is worried that you are too quiet because you don't want to talk to him.  

[dramafreezone]

Well, what's your conversation like?  Is he offering more than you are?  What do you talk about?

If you're reserved and don't contribute to conversation as much as he does then he's trying to push you out of your comfort zone.   Sometimes people come along that challenge us in a good way, and it sounds like you need to be pushed.

If you really like the guy, make an effort, even if it's tough.  Asking to share more is a very reasonable request.  Look at it from his point of view, what are you offering if you're just sitting there like a bump on a log?

Edited February 8, 2021 by dramafreezone

[amygirl908]

42 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Trouble is, he has already tired of waiting, hence his comments about opening up and "substance" to the OP

He expressed that he wanted to get to know her better and he communicated with OP. Which IMO is mature and healthy behavior. If he wasn't interested and he didn't like her he would have just ghosted. Now OP has to determine if she's ready to open up, she's her own woman.

I don't jump just because some guy wants something from me. I consider if it's something I want too.

I get the impression that this kind of vulnerability might be hard for the OP. Being pushed into a corner isn't going to get either of them the results that they want. I'm not suggesting she wait another 2 months to open up but if this is something that's important to her she shouldn't just do it without considering her feelings.

Edited February 8, 2021 by amygirl908

[Firstlady07]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

@Firstlady07: As he been trying to make you talk about what you like about sex? It's the first thing that crossed my mind when I read your story cause I've seen it all. That's not substance. 

No, he hasn't.  We haven't had sex and don't talk about sex that much.

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, amygirl908 said:

Which IMO is mature and healthy behavior. 

.....well, I don't know how old OP and her guy are but after 2 months talking daily, the mature thing to do for this man would be to recognize they are not compatible. Even if he takes on the big job of taking her out of her shell, she is who she is, she may try, but she will not go from an introvert to an extrovert, she will not go from not being opinionated to being it. We tell women all the time to not pick up a man that will end up a project. It doesn't work. She is who she is and some man out there will think she's amazing just the way she is.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Gaeta

[dramafreezone]

12 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

.....well, I don't know how old OP and her guy are but after 2 months talking daily, the mature thing to do for this man would be to recognize they are not compatible. Even if he takes on the big job of taking her out of her shell, she is who she is, she may try, but she will not go from an introvert to an extrovert, she will not go from not being opinionated to being it. We tall women all the time to not pick up a man that will end up a project. It doesn't work. She is who she is and some man out there will think she's amazing just the way she is.

I see this idea on here all the time, well just go and find someone that likes you for what you are.

Yeah, ok sure, that is a healthy attitude to have, but to an extent.  It can be overdone if taken to the to the point to where you don't think you have to improve on weaknesses.  This is one area where she can improve.  Maybe she'll never be a very talkative person but if she learns to be a better conversationalist she'll make her self more attactive to more quality men.

Maybe she needs someone that will help to push her out of her comfort zone.  That's what a great partner does, they compliment you and help you to be stronger where you're weak.  When someone is trying to get you to change in a positive way, then that's a good thing.

Edited February 8, 2021 by dramafreezone

[amygirl908]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

.....well, I don't know how old OP and her guy are but after 2 months talking daily, the mature thing to do for this man would be to recognize they are not compatible. Even if he takes on the big job of taking her out of her shell, she is who she is, she may try, but she will not go from an introvert to an extrovert, she will not go from not being opinionated to being it. We tell women all the time to not pick up a man that will end up a project. It doesn't work. She is who she is and some man out there will think she's amazing just the way she is.

I don't necessarily agree. Good things take time and 2 months is not a long time, a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. We're so ready to cut people off and move on because of one small thing. Everyone OLD is working off a checklist and going about this the wrong way.

He's noticed that there is something he wants to see in the relationship and instead of expecting her to be a mind reader he expressed his needs.

I don't have a problem with this now, but I really used to have difficulty with vulnerability. We all move at different paces and just because we're not at the exact same place in the exact some moment every second of everyday doesn't mean there is something wrong.

Perhaps they aren't compatible but we can't make that determination from this one issue we have too little information.

[Gaeta]

I believe we can change certain things, be better organizer, working on being punctual, remembering birthdays, learning to be more physically active but I don't think we can change people  who they are at the core and being an introvert or extrovert is ingrained deep in you and your brain, it's who you are. You can make efforts but your true nature will always come back, so in a way OP will have to spend a life time of being in *effort* mode. I find that unfair for her. 

I am not into dismissing people for nothing, but I am also for recognizing early when you're not compatible. 

[dramafreezone]

7 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I believe we can change certain things, be better organizer, working on being punctual, remembering birthdays, learning to be more physically active but I don't think we can change people  who they are at the core and being an introvert or extrovert is ingrained deep in you and your brain, it's who you are. You can make efforts but your true nature will always come back, so in a way OP will have to spend a life time of being in *effort* mode. I find that unfair for her. 

I am not into dismissing people for nothing, but I am also for recognizing early when you're not compatible. 

I'm reserved like the OP, and I typically end up with women who talk a ton.  What I've learned to do is ask a lot of questions from one subject to the other.  Take one jumping off point and then link it to the next conversation.  I do think she needs to open up more, but also if he's naturally talkative then she can do things to facilitate that.  His request seems to indicate to me that she's just letting conversation die out.    Asking a lot of questions doesn't take a lot of effort for anyone, even introverts.  If he likes to talk, help him talk more while still showing him that you have a lot of interest.

I just think she could put forth more effort and not shy away from someone that's challenging her in a good way.

[amygirl908]

26 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You can make efforts but your true nature will always come back, so in a way OP will have to spend a life time of being in *effort* mode. I find that unfair for her. 

I don't think being an introvert means that you're incapable of opening up.

Introverts and extroverts can have healthy happy relationships. Opening up and talking more doesn't have to be a lifelong commitment, but it is a part of the getting to know each other stage. It wouldn't be reasonable or healthy for the guy to expect OP to completely change who she is and I don't think that's what he's asked for here. He's communicated his needs, expressed interest in wanting to know her better.. I don't think there's anything wrong going on here.

Now that I'm thinking about it I had an ex who said the same thing to me. When we first started dating all we talked about was work. Our conversations were really surface level. I agreed with him and worked on being mindful of what I was talking about and if I was heavy on work stuff we would talk about other things. We dated for 2 years and almost got married. Never would have happened if he didn't tell me he was bothered about talking about work all the time.

Edited February 8, 2021 by amygirl908

[Cookiesandough]

Uh, I think that means boring...or maybe lacking depth...Anyway, kind of  rude way to tell someone you just started dating to open up. I would say bye Philicia 👋

Edited February 8, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, FMW said:

Maybe he hasn't inspired her to share anything "deeper".  I agree with @Gaeta, I would be offended at the wording of his comment.  

Communication should come naturally, and if it doesn't it's likely they just aren't a good match.  One person's deep might be another's self-indulgent twaddle. 

Unless @Firstlady07 gets similar feedback from other guys, I would lean more to it being a lack of compatibility rather than something she needs to change for him.  

I agree and by the way, if you want someone to open up, asking them to open up rarely, if ever, works, it's best to be open yourself, begin sharing first and ask pertinent questions and see if they follow in kind.   When it's right, it's not something you should even have to think about, it comes naturally, and effortlessly.

Someone asking me to open up only adds a certain unwelcome pressure and may cause me to actually close down.  It's like telling an introverted person to be more extroverted.  Not gonna work.

Agree with FMW, you sound incompatible.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

 

19 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree and by the way, if you want someone to open up, asking them to open up rarely, if ever, works, it's best to be open yourself, begin sharing first and ask pertinent questions and see if they follow in kind.   When it's right, it's not something you should even have to think about, it comes naturally, and effortlessly.

Someone asking me to open up only adds a certain unwelcome pressure and may cause me to actually close down.  It's like telling an introverted person to be more extroverted.  Not gonna work.

Agree with FMW, you sound incompatible.

 

 

If she's been more open with other men in the past and this particular man is a challenge to connect with, then it's probably a compatability issue.

If this is a strong pattern though with guy after guy or it's preventing her from even dating as many men as she'd like, it's probably something she needs to work on.  Sure there's a guy for her out there but you increase your chances of finding that guy by being the very best version of yourself.

[poppyfields]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

If he's asking about your thoughts & now he's saying he wants more substance, he's telling  you that in his opinion you are not contributing enough to the conversation.  He is hoping to get to know you better -- your likes, your hopes & dreams, your opinions.  Basically he's asking you to talk more about anything & everything. The subject doesn't matter. He is worried that you are too quiet because you don't want to talk to him.  

Okay, but asking/requiring her to just start opening up is not the way to get her or anyone to start opening up.

If he wants her to open up, then HE should open up first, sharing his likes, hopes, opinions etc. and ask leading questions making it easier for her to open up in kind.  No one is going to start opening up, just cause someone asked them to.  It doesn't work that way.

He sounds like a boob imo.   Demanding she be more open, or that she's too quiet or whatever.  Again, if that's what he needs he should be leading her into that, OR simply find someone else who meets his requirements for "substance" whatever they may be.

Edited February 8, 2021 by poppyfields

[d0nnivain]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay, but asking/requiring her to just start opening up is not the way to get her or anyone to start opening up.

Agreed.  I said he wants her to open up.  I didn't say he went about it in the best way.  🙃

[dramafreezone]

7 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay, but asking/requiring her to just start opening up is not the way to get her or anyone to start opening up.

If he wants her to open up, then HE should open up first, sharing his likes, hopes, opinions etc. and ask leading questions making it easier for her to open up in kind.  No one is going to start opening up, just cause someone asked them to.  It doesn't work that way.

He sounds like a boob imo.   Demanding she be more open, or that she's too quiet or whatever.  Again, if that's what he needs he should be leading her into that, OR simply find someone else who meets his requirements for "substance" whatever they may be.

She's admitted that he shares a lot.   I think it's fair to assume he's doing all of that.

Maybe she should move on, but she came on here asking for advice which indicates to me that she really likes the guy.  So her making more of an effort seems to be appropriate.  All of the effort appears to be coming from him.

[Gaeta]

39 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I'm reserved like the OP,

You fooled me lol 😉

You're not reserved on here. You're definitely not afraid of speaking your  mind and replying to other members. Now, look at OP participation in her own thread. She always answers with 1 sentence, 2 sentences at the most. I think she is really reserved. 

[poppyfields]

8 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

She's admitted that he shares a lot.   I think it's fair to assume he's doing all of that.

Maybe she should move on, but she came on here asking for advice which indicates to me that she really likes the guy.  So her making more of an effort seems to be appropriate.  All of the effort appears to be coming from him.

Okay fair enough.  I'm trying to do a zillion things at once, so apologies if I missed that.

If he's sharing and being open and she's not, well I'm not quite sure what to say or how to advise.  

Ideally, yes she should respond in kind, and it should come naturally and effortlessly.  But something is preventing her from doing so, so while she may like the guy a lot, they really do sound like a mismatch.   

Or perhaps he should simply accept her quiet introverted nature, and stop pressuring her to be someone she's not?

I mean turn it around.  How would he feel if she asked or required him to NOT be so open, stop sharing so much, to tone himself down?  That it makes her uncomfortable.

Would that be fair?

I don't think so.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You fooled me lol 😉

You're not reserved on here. You're definitely not afraid of speaking your  mind and replying to other members. Now, look at OP participation in her own thread. She always answers with 1 sentence, 2 sentences at the most. I think she is really reserved. 

Yes, I'm very expressive through writing.  In person though, I'm much more inclined to listen, especially when speaking with women.  I guess writing is how I balance everything out.

And yes I noticed that the OP has been reserved even in her writing, not sharing a lot of details.  Maybe she needs someone that's just extremely patient.  I think the guy really likes her and is a little frustrated, don't think he meant to criticize in a hurtful manner.

[Fox Sake]

Hmm.. slightly different take on this.
I think when you feel comfortable enough you’ll open up. This can be fixed. 

You said you’re an introvert- the fact he talks all the time could be to “fill in” the gaps in conversation that would happen if he didn’t. For example; he tells you something deep and meaningful and you have no reply of any substance. Subject change.  

If he didn’t like you,  he wouldn’t be bothering or telling you what he was finding a problem. 

I suspect he’s looking for some signs as to where this is going. I get the feeling that you don’t feel comfortable sharing your deepest thoughts and feelings with him. I think he wants a more emotional attachment with you, and you’re playing your cards close to your chest and protecting yourself. 

You can hide that behind being an introvert, but really it all comes down to making yourself vulnerable and open with your communication.  Without it coming equally from both sides , the scales tip in balance. Communication is where the bond is born... 

Things are unbalanced , he’s probably given you a lot about himself and his thoughts. I think he just wants to feel the same back.

So tldr , If you like the guy, then just tell him that you find it harder to open up than he does, and you’re not meaning to come across as “lacking in substance “ and you can come up with rest ...even that move in itself is the start of making yourself open to communicate properly on a deeper level than just superficial chit chat 

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, Firstlady07 said:

  He is more of an extrovert in that way. He's definitely a talker and not just surface level.. He's always asking what am I thinking or to share my thoughts.  He shares a lot. 

Can you tell us what are the things he likes to talk about?

[dramafreezone]

29 minutes ago, Fox Sake said:

 

So tldr , If you like the guy, then just tell him that you find it harder to open up than he does, and you’re not meaning to come across as “lacking in substance “ and you can come up with rest ...even that move in itself is the start of making yourself open to communicate properly on a deeper level than just superficial chit chat 

I think even this would help.  She obviously can't just turn herself into an open book but being vulnerable by sharing one of her largest insecurities would be huge IMO.  This may be what the guy needs to be more patient.  He can't read her mind so he could just take her reserved nature as a lack of interest.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Firstlady07 said:

What does it mean when a man tells you he needs substance?  I've been talking to this man for about two months and he tells me he wants me to open up more he needs substance. 

What does he mean by "open up more"? You never met so it's best to  keep things simple rather than divulge too much to a stranger. Do you think he's setting the table for sexting? 

[Gaeta]

I'm bothered by his choice of words. I think it says a lot about him. It's not something I would ever say to someone, anyone.