Knowing you will spend years lonely and die alone

[Emilie Jolie]

I'm not always kind, but thank you. 

I think you are right about being blunt with your wife; that may actually help with the overwhelming - saying things as they are might be easier to digest for her than receiving lots of bits of news in short order. I know I'm in a constant state of confusion when I don't know exactly what's going on.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Emilie Jolie

[Keridan]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I'm not always kind, but thank you. 

I think you are right about being blunt with your wife; that may actually help with the overwhelming - saying things as they are might be easier to digest for her than receiving lots of bits of news in short order. I know I'm in a constant state of confusion when I don't know exactly what's going on.

Nobody can be kind all the time. It would drive them insane. You show more kindness than most though. 

I did try a different approach today. I wasn't ready to talk about all of it, but I warned her I had something I needed to get into and I would be talking today (sort of a trap for myself so I can't avoid it). Turns out ,she know me well enough that she had a decent idea of it and made some good guesses. I put myself in the position of confirming or lying and that's usually a simple one.

I honestly have no idea how she is reacting. We have to talk more. But it wasn't the reaction I was afraid of from the start. I will bring it back up tonight and try to get a better read on her. 

Hopefully knowing more will help her in dealing with me. I'm hopeful for at least a step forward.

[Emilie Jolie]

2 minutes ago, Keridan said:

Hopefully knowing more will help her in dealing with me. I'm hopeful for at least a step forward.

That sounds like a great plan 🙂.

[Keridan]

I dont mind repeating myself sometimes but thank for your input.

Thank you everyone has tried to help too and might be reading this.

The second conversation went badly. Like.... very badly. I can't even express myself yet. I just feel crushed and defeated.  

She wasn't mean or anything, but what she said hurt me to my core. I will try to give more info later. Reacting when emotions are this high doesn't usually end well.

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately it seems like talking at her is making matters worse.

Especially since you are asking for something she's already giving you but now asking her to give you the responses you want and act enthused in a manner you want.

You can't really control someone's sexual responses. 

[Keridan]

32 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately it seems like talking at her is making matters worse.

Especially since you are asking for something she's already giving you but now asking her to give you the responses you want and act enthused in a manner you want.

You can't really control someone's sexual responses. 

I think I'm not being clear. I'm not pushy about the sex thing. I let her know I have needs and she can accept or refuse as she chooses. When she says no, I let it go for a while, whether it's to one request or just anything in general. I've never liked the idea of being pushy about stuff like that. How can you both enjoy it if it's a chore?

Because it's a good example of a bigger problem, I brought it up and I admit I have let a bunch of this thread focus on that. It's not the big problem though.

I will try to be a bit more specific but remember I'm not good at this. Try not to assume I'm saying it right. I don't ask for help or talk about details often.

My wife is a good person and loves our children so very much. But she is also kind of negative.  Even when I was running a successful business, raising happy kids, and moved across the country to make her happy, I couldn't please her. When things get hard, it's always hopeless and the sky is falling. I have pulled us out of many bad situations over the years only to hear how it wasn't enough.

Eventually, this wears you down. It's gotten harder and harder. Knowing you can never do enough eats at you. I've kept fighting. But I'm losing strength. I'm losing patience. We have kids and a family and you don't give that up though.

Yesterday, she basically admitted she doesn't respect me (absolutely not in those same words). But she confirmed the lack of support and faith that I have suspected for years. 

I feel like I have spent years in a situation I can't improve and I'm so worried her thought process will pass on to my sons. 

There is just too much history to explain on here. 

To be honest, I haven't felt like this since being g a teen, but I almost hope the doc was right. I hate myself and I'm frustrated with her.I don't see a way to fix this. That's not who I am. I don't give up, but I want to right now.

[Wiseman2]

What exactly is her resentment about?

[Keridan]

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

What exactly is her resentment about?

I'm sorry. I never got a notification about this message.

She hasn't had the life she imagined and we have troubles that affect our children. They are the most important things in our life.

She expected me to do better and I have made many mistakes. Which I don't deny or hide

I'm not trying to put it on her, but it's hard to fix when you feel like every single thing is on you all the time. 

I have asked for help and asked input in decisions and tried to make it a team thing. But I get no help fixing issues even when I ask. Then, the blame is on me when something goes wrong.

There is no way I see everything. I'm screwing some things up and not understanding why she feels this way. 

I'm just frustrated with feeling like I have tried so hard and I can't get help but I get blame. A family has to work together to solve problems. 

There is also the fact that she is prone to depression and I admit I haven't always handled her reactions well. Over time I grew afraid of her saying things about self hurt or worse. It has made me draw back. I tried to be supportive and not hurt her.

At some point though, you have to address serious stuff. Especially when you have kids. So I have done my best to bring things up carefully and with no accusations. 

I'm not perfect. Im at least half of the problem. But I don't know how to do better and asking just ends up hurting.

 

[Tron5]

It is a clear demonstration of lack of care and respect for you and the marriage when a wife tells you to go have sex with some other woman rather than work on the sex life together.

So, this inflexibility, obstinacy, her litany of claimed resentments she has for you (be they made up, blown out of proportion or valid), anger issues, sex gatekeeper, inability to self reflect, her constant negativity, the depression, her default blame-shift everything bad onto you, never being satisfied, and you constant walking on eggshells around her is indicative of other, more serious and more systemic issues. I'd suggest that you read a bit into personality disorders because she sounds like she has one.  

And if she does, you are spinning your wheels, because there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. She would need treatment and she doesn't sound like the person who is going to go along with anything that suggests there might be something wrong with her. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Tron5

[Emilie Jolie]

3 hours ago, Keridan said:

But I don't know how to do better and asking just ends up hurting.

 I've just caught up.

How can you do better as part of a couple when only one of you is trying? That seems completely illogical, from the outside looking in.

What's your reasoning for continuing on, other than the vows made? They are already broken - there's no 'in sickness and in health' or genuine partnership, from what you're telling us here.

This is not a good environment to raise children in, and it's clearly affecting your self-esteem. 

I know you don't want to leave, but I don't understand why. I too am a super committed person but I also value my health, mental or otherwise. I think you need to start considering the fact that this might be unsolvable, unless your wife has some sort of epiphany sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry @Keridan but this state of limbo is unsustainable long term, and it's unhealthy short-term.

 

[Keridan]

2 hours ago, Tron5 said:

It is a clear demonstration of lack of care and respect for you and the marriage when a wife tells you to go have sex with some other woman rather than work on the sex life together.

So, this inflexibility, obstinacy, her litany of claimed resentments she has for you (be they made up, blown out of proportion or valid), anger issues, sex gatekeeper, inability to self reflect, her constant negativity, the depression, her default blame-shift everything bad onto you, never being satisfied, and you constant walking on eggshells around her is indicative of other, more serious and more systemic issues. I'd suggest that you read a bit into personality disorders because she sounds like she has one.  

And if she does, you are spinning your wheels, because there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. She would need treatment and she doesn't sound like the person who is going to go along with anything that suggests there might be something wrong with her. 

She definitely has some issues. I feel bad because I can't express her side even as much as I do my own. I have been trying to be fair in my description because I want honest feedback like this. And I appreciate you sharing it.

I think I've given the same advice a few times before. So I'm trying to hear it.

I guess I'm just at a loss. I have been trying for years to fix things and find answers. We have two sons that I would lose time with (and who would suffer the separation) and I do love her. 

I am not ready to give up, but I started this thread because I have spent months wondering if we were done and when she would leave me. I started grieving the loss a while ago.

I would prefer to fix it. I just don't know if I can by myself. You may well be right.

[Keridan]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

 I've just caught up.

How can you do better as part of a couple when only one of you is trying? That seems completely illogical, from the outside looking in.

What's your reasoning for continuing on, other than the vows made? They are already broken - there's no 'in sickness and in health' or genuine partnership, from what you're telling us here.

This is not a good environment to raise children in, and it's clearly affecting your self-esteem. 

I know you don't want to leave, but I don't understand why. I too am a super committed person but I also value my health, mental or otherwise. I think you need to start considering the fact that this might be unsolvable, unless your wife has some sort of epiphany sooner rather than later.

I'm sorry @Keridan but this state of limbo is unsustainable long term, and it's unhealthy short-term.

 

Thank you for your continued help! As I said above, I want to fix it for the kids and because I do love her. However, I am certainly feeling hopeless. I have missed her for a while as if she was already gone. 

I have so much love and passion that I need to share. I have had many girlfriends and most have lasted a long time. Im a ... Controlled person. I never much like being with someone for one night. It happened, but it doesn't satisfy me.

I want so badly to fix this for my boys. I was 6 months old when my parents got divorced. The only married couple I knew growing up was my wonderful dad and my step mother who abused me.

Kids can be a pain and drive you nuts, but they don't deserve the life I had. 

I have fault in all this too. I want to be clear. I checked out emotionally after the first few years when I couldn't get through. I also have issues that I have shared with her and she doesn't understand (she does try, but doesn't get it).

Over the years I have tried many times to meet her needs though. She just doesn't reciprocate. 

I wonder if she even wants to be around me or if the marriage is the same chore as sexual stuff. Something she has to do in order to get through, but she doesn't really want it.

I feel like such a whiner right now. I just don't know what to do.

[Emilie Jolie]

8 hours ago, Keridan said:

Something she has to do in order to get through, but she doesn't really want it.

She's still in the marriage of her own volition, right? Then maybe there's still a way 🙂. 

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you both don't want to leave but both blame each other for the marital breakdown.

You're at an impasse. You ask her what's wrong, she tells you, then you don't believe her and instead start citing her mental illnesses.

When both spouses position themselves as the victim of the other ones doing, you must know something is wrong.

You don't want a divorce, she doesn't want a divorce. You're not deprived of sex .  You're not bickering and arguing.

So what in fact is the real complaint here? Clearly it's not a happy marriage for either of you.

You don't have to preface it with she's a good woman, good mother, etc. Most people are even in unhappy marriages. Just state what actually bothers you so much?

[Keridan]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

She's still in the marriage of her own volition, right? Then maybe there's still a way 🙂. 

Plus and minus on this one. She admitted today that a lot of the time the marriage is an obligation. She also said it was fixable. 

Unfortunately, with the load of information she gave me in that one conversation, I locked down. Always sucks to hear how others perceive your faults. I didn't want to be attacking in reprisal for conversations I had started, so I told her I had to digest and follow up. 

I hate to admit it but I ran. I do t mind a fight, but I don't want to be hurtful.

[Keridan]

19 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you both don't want to leave but both blame each other for the marital breakdown.

You're at an impasse. You ask her what's wrong, she tells you, then you don't believe her and instead start citing her mental illnesses.

When both spouses position themselves as the victim of the other ones doing, you must know something is wrong.

You don't want a divorce, she doesn't want a divorce. You're not deprived of sex .  You're not bickering and arguing.

So what in fact is the real complaint here? Clearly it's not a happy marriage for either of you.

You don't have to preface it with she's a good woman, good mother, etc. Most people are even in unhappy marriages. Just state what actually bothers you so much?

I appreciate your blunt answer. It again points out to me that I haven't said things well. Her depression is a factor and so are years if being unsuçcessful in cheering her up, but I'm not blaming her.

So returning the bluntness, what I want is to either get help making decisions or not to be blamed if I make the wrong ones. (Either is okay). I want movent towards my side of things when I literally gave up everything to make this work. I want to not be made to feel guilty for having needs.

I want my kids to learn to face their fears and take responsibility for their part in things so they can continue to improve.

And I'm no victim. I'm just imperfect. Not as bad as I think she sees me, but I'm no innocent in this.

Overall, I want to learn to do better.

 

Edit: also in the sense of bluntness, I am deprived sexually. I get some And there is some effort, but it's rare considering our ages and being married. nd it feels like a chore. I tried to work within her limitations again tonight and was unable to peak based on how I think she feels about me. I had to fake it. I'm the guy! I barely get enough and I had to fake it. Again.

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Keridan

[Emilie Jolie]

4 minutes ago, Keridan said:

I hate to admit it but I ran. I do t mind a fight, but I don't want to be hurtful.

Understandable-ish. 

There needn't be a fight, though. You're now both on that path of trying to fix things, so you need to actually listen to each other, I would say. It'll probably be a really bumpy ride with all that history - you will need to be prepared for that if you want to see it through.

[Keridan]

Just now, Emilie Jolie said:

Understandable-ish. 

There needn't be a fight, though. You're now both on that path of trying to fix things, so you need to actually listen to each other, I would say. It'll probably be a really bumpy ride with all that history - you will need to be prepared for that if you want to see it through.

Yet again, you are right. I was prepared to not like the responses. I wasn't able to express myself clearly and calmly. I said that outright and asked for time.

In the spirit of a post above, I will be blunt. I have the ability to really make someone feel like crud. I mean crush them. I also have to control being physically intimidating. 

I didn't want her to feel as bad as I did or worse. That's not what you do to someone you love. So I told her I needed to consider the new information and we would talk again.

[Wiseman2]

How is your physical health? It would be a great idea to privately and confidentiality talk to your physician and get a complete evaluation.

Your sexual issues can't all be blamed on her.

Agree the power struggle and marital discord is a turn off probably for both of you.

Right now, your stance is you feel sexually deprived because she won't perform certain acts the way you want her to.

[Emilie Jolie]

3 minutes ago, Keridan said:

I have the ability to really make someone feel like crud. I mean crush them. I also have to control being physically intimidating. 

I see. At least that's honest. She doesn't sound imtimidated by that though after all these years of marriage, so that's something. 

 

8 minutes ago, Keridan said:

So I told her I needed to consider the new information and we would talk again.

Ok. I wouldn't leave it for too long personally if you want to keep the momentum going.

[lana-banana]

It's not clear to me why counseling is impossible. Yes, you don't like communicating, but if you made it clear that counseling was necessary to saving your marriage, she'd probably at least give it a go. And if you can't communicate, the least you could do is print out this thread and let her read it. If you really are that poor at expressing yourself it's hard to tell what she might think or what she thinks is happening. She might have told you to have sex with someone else simply because she believes she isn't good enough and can't possibly satisfy you, so she thinks that's the right thing to do. Reading between the lines here I get the sense that many of your feelings will come across as a total shock to her.

[Keridan]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How is your physical health? It would be a great idea to privately and confidentiality talk to your physician and get a complete evaluation.

Your sexual issues can't all be blamed on her.

Agree the power struggle and marital discord is a turn off probably for both of you.

Right now, your stance is you feel sexually deprived because she won't perform certain acts the way you want her to.

Again, sex is far down the list, but I use it as the simplest example. You were respectful enough to be blunt and I was trying to do the same.

It's an issue, to be sure, but not as important as working together to solve bigger problems. 

My stance isn't that I'm deprived. It doesn't meet all my needs, but even with other issues going on she is trying. It wouldn't be fair to criticize her on that right now.

I'm frustrated to be be sure, but that's on me too. 

 

[Keridan]

2 hours ago, lana-banana said:

It's not clear to me why counseling is impossible. Yes, you don't like communicating, but if you made it clear that counseling was necessary to saving your marriage, she'd probably at least give it a go. And if you can't communicate, the least you could do is print out this thread and let her read it. If you really are that poor at expressing yourself it's hard to tell what she might think or what she thinks is happening. She might have told you to have sex with someone else simply because she believes she isn't good enough and can't possibly satisfy you, so she thinks that's the right thing to do. Reading between the lines here I get the sense that many of your feelings will come across as a total shock to her.

Thank you for caring enough to give your input. Counseling is certainly not impossible and may be our best option. I was concerned about the cost and am not used to having to worry about that. Some posters gave good tips though. I am trying to see if our church offers something. Unfortunately, time is a big issue. This makes searching for something like that tougher. It's a very good idea, but not a quick one, so I am trying to move forward while I work it out.

And I think you are partially right about the reason she said to cheat. I try to avoid it, but I'm sure she feels pressure and just doesn't know what to do when it is such a low priority for her.

She isn't being mean. She is trying. I just think she should know me better. I don't step out. Either we work it out or I live without the stuff I want but get what I need and deal with it.

I am just trying to talk. I got a lot of negative feedback in the last few days and I want to deal with it appropriately. I need her to be blunt and not worry about me turning into some angry jerk or whiney moron. 

We are both trying. Maybe a counselor will help. I don't know. Maybe not, but I have to try anything that will move forward.

 

[Keridan]

6 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

I see. At least that's honest. She doesn't sound imtimidated by that though after all these years of marriage, so that's something. 

 

Ok. I wouldn't leave it for too long personally if you want to keep the momentum going.

I try to be honest. It makes things easier most of the time. And you have to accept honesty back, even when it hurts like it did yesterday. I just don't want to discourage her from telling me the blunt truth whenever possible. 

There is a difference between trying to be hurtful and trying to be honest. She was going for honest. Even if I disagree, I can't be mad at that... Well, I can because I'm human, but it's not fair.

I agree about the momentum. I told her this morning that I still want to talk, but we didn't have time. She said okay. 

I'm slightly hopeful and I'm definitely hurt, but this is a process. No way I'm going to like all of it. I guess we will see if I can fix this or not soon enough.

[Emilie Jolie]

Good luck either way.