why my affair was toxic, MW with MM

[Hulahoop]

Yes wisheswerefishes. That’s what I meant too.

I’ve left out details as I DON’T think it’s just my husbands fault and I am NOT painting him as a monster or wanting people to think he is. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed response to removed remark

[DKT3]

My assessment is based on things you've wrote that you've done, they show you impulsive,  they show you as vindictive,  they show you as shortsighted.  

Its easy to say I did wrong, but not really believing it. 

[Hulahoop]

7 hours ago, DKT3 said:

My assessment is based on things you've wrote that you've done, they show you impulsive,  they show you as vindictive,  they show you as shortsighted.  

Its easy to say I did wrong, but not really believing it. 

I may be impulsive and I was shortsighted. I admitted I was vindictive when I told APs wife but that doesn’t mean that’s me. Mistakes don’t define a person. Especially when these mistakes are during low points. I think you need to reassess your assessments. 

[IfWishesWereFishes]

12 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Almost every WW comes here proclaiming the victim, married to a monster yet they are the ones cheating.  So your mm turned you into dishonest person,  lying and manipulating and that is who you are? Makes sense 🤔 

I've been reading through other postings in this forum, have only  been here a week or so, all this is new. I think deep down WWs who proclaim they are the victim are trying to believe the only way they'd cheat is if something surely is wrong with their husband, that they were married to a monster. Maybe it's part of them trying to understand, trying to grasp how they fell down the rabbit hole since in other parts of their lives they are good people. Could be that some of their husbands are flawed in other ways and the affair showed them the things that they found not so good in their marriage and then magnified it through the lens of the affair. There is more than a bit of insanity when we are posting in an anonymous forum for support and help as we are trying to understand and heal. Most WW posting here might be at the point I'm at right now, having just recently ended things with the AP. It's a process.

I don't think one should say that people in affairs are monsters; that is unduly harsh and judgmental. Often, it's just normal people who made unfortunate, short-sighted choices at low-points in their lives. We aren't monsters. If statistics say that 70% of people cheat, and if the logic is that cheating makes you a monster, then, by gosh, the majority of people are monsters. I'm not excusing cheating nor lying, but let's face it, it seems to be quite human to cheat. Does this mean that other things someone has done in a relationship is less egregious than cheating? What about spouses that do other horrible things like addictions to gambling, shopping, etc.? Or what about just pure neglect of their spouse? Or what about spouses who control and manipulate their wives/husband? Financial cheating? Yet, an affair is held to this most morally horrible thing in the relationship. Are those other things not as terrible nor a betrayal of the marriage? This is not to justify cheating. I just mean to say that cheaters are not monsters, just flawed and very human and should, once they wake up to their bad actions, start working out the why's and the how's and the who they are. But, don't beat people up and label all people in affairs as evil-doers who intentionally harm everyone around them. 

[Hulahoop]

56 minutes ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

I've been reading through other postings in this forum, have only  been here a week or so, all this is new. I think deep down WWs who proclaim they are the victim are trying to believe the only way they'd cheat is if something surely is wrong with their husband, that they were married to a monster. Maybe it's part of them trying to understand, trying to grasp how they fell down the rabbit hole since in other parts of their lives they are good people. Could be that some of their husbands are flawed in other ways and the affair showed them the things that they found not so good in their marriage and then magnified it through the lens of the affair. There is more than a bit of insanity when we are posting in an anonymous forum for support and help as we are trying to understand and heal. Most WW posting here might be at the point I'm at right now, having just recently ended things with the AP. It's a process.

I don't think one should say that people in affairs are monsters; that is unduly harsh and judgmental. Often, it's just normal people who made unfortunate, short-sighted choices at low-points in their lives. We aren't monsters. If statistics say that 70% of people cheat, and if the logic is that cheating makes you a monster, then, by gosh, the majority of people are monsters. I'm not excusing cheating nor lying, but let's face it, it seems to be quite human to cheat. Does this mean that other things someone has done in a relationship is less egregious than cheating? What about spouses that do other horrible things like addictions to gambling, shopping, etc.? Or what about just pure neglect of their spouse? Or what about spouses who control and manipulate their wives/husband? Financial cheating? Yet, an affair is held to this most morally horrible thing in the relationship. Are those other things not as terrible nor a betrayal of the marriage? This is not to justify cheating. I just mean to say that cheaters are not monsters, just flawed and very human and should, once they wake up to their bad actions, start working out the why's and the how's and the who they are. But, don't beat people up and label all people in affairs as evil-doers who intentionally harm everyone around them. 

Thank you. Very well said xxxx 

[mark clemson]

Nice post.  I'd point out that, there are APs/WSs and then there are APs/WSs. Many really aren't that bad, but, then again, some really are.

It's kinds of like driving IMO. Just because someone got into a (their fault) accident doesn't mean they are monsters who should never be allowed to drive. Most aren't. But there are some who ARE routinely irresponsible and a few who simply have "crazy" high-risk driving styles and probably shouldn't be on the road.

[Hulahoop]

19 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Nice post.  I'd point out that, there are APs/WSs and then there are APs/WSs. Many really aren't that bad, but, then again, some really are.

It's kinds of like driving IMO. Just because someone got into a (their fault) accident doesn't mean they are monsters who should never be allowed to drive. Most aren't. But there are some who ARE routinely irresponsible and a few who simply have "crazy" high-risk driving styles and probably shouldn't be on the road.

Again, well said. 👏🏼 👏🏼 

[SS2855]

@IfWishesWereFishes thank you thank you thank you for so perfectly summarizing your story so completely as if I could have written it myself. I will need to spend more time looking at your posts but every line this far has been relatable. I feel less alone. Currently going through abandonment grief (just read about SWIRL- fascinating) and trying everyday to regain my once balanced life. In a million years I’d have never known about the impact of affair relationships. Outside of the clear moral issue and harm to others which is so very obvious, if someone told me 2 years ago the psychological toll a relationship like this would take on me I’d have never believed it. Clearly there are SO many layers and patterns to these which goes much deeper than two horrible liars deciding one day to cheat on their partners. This is not to make excuses but to look and say wow... how did I get here and what has living in “this” way done to me? Why do we choose this, what of these sends that signal to the brain that gets you hooked and helps you rationalize away the bad behavior? Rhetorical questions here, but the gravity of it is something. 

[Bittersweetie]

On 2/27/2021 at 5:56 AM, IfWishesWereFishes said:

I've been reading through other postings in this forum, have only  been here a week or so, all this is new. I think deep down WWs who proclaim they are the victim are trying to believe the only way they'd cheat is if something surely is wrong with their husband, that they were married to a monster. Maybe it's part of them trying to understand, trying to grasp how they fell down the rabbit hole since in other parts of their lives they are good people. Could be that some of their husbands are flawed in other ways and the affair showed them the things that they found not so good in their marriage and then magnified it through the lens of the affair. There is more than a bit of insanity when we are posting in an anonymous forum for support and help as we are trying to understand and heal. Most WW posting here might be at the point I'm at right now, having just recently ended things with the AP. It's a process.

I was a WW, had a d-day over ten years ago now. I think the above ties in to what I say often, the mental gymnastics a WS can do in order to justify their choices, to make what they are doing "okay." We WS change the narrative in order to not be the "bad guy" in this situation. At the time of my affair, internally I complained that my H was angry all the time, and that was partly why I looked for someone else. But really my choices were all about me, and not about him at all. And it's really, really hard to accept that, to face our weaknesses head on, and I see many WS either "playing the victim" or hyperfocusing on AP rather than their own growth and healing.. 

And what's tough is those mental gymnastics become a regular coping skill and even harder to recognize and break. So one not only has to break the habit of the affair but also how one mentally dealt with the affair. 

[Marc878]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:38 AM, Hulahoop said:

I may be impulsive and I was shortsighted. I admitted I was vindictive when I told APs wife but that doesn’t mean that’s me. Mistakes don’t define a person. Especially when these mistakes are during low points. I think you need to reassess your assessments. 

Mistakes? Sounds more like decisions or choices.

[Hulahoop]

Haven’t you ever made a decision or choice that turned out to be a mistake? 

[Bittersweetie]

1 hour ago, Hulahoop said:

Haven’t you ever made a decision or choice that turned out to be a mistake? 

Hula, I think there is some sensitivity (rightly so) to the use of the word "mistake" to describe an affair. Mistake implies something minor; like, I made a mistake when I bought whole milk instead of skim. Or I paid the power bill out of the wrong account. And, obviously, an affair isn't minor. Marc has a point: it's not like we said "oops I had an affair." Affairs are a series of choices...maybe the early choices were more minor and could be called mistakes (i.e. I'm really attracted to this person and it's no big deal if we go get a drink). But things escalate and choices are made that really aren't mistakes (Lying or stretching the truth about where one is to a spouse).

I will be the first to admit I've made some very bad, hurtful choices in regards to my affair. It was a series of bad decisions and a colossal error of judgment on my part. Calling it a "mistake" minimizes what happened, and is disrespectful to my husband and marriage, and also disrespectful to my own growth and healing. Personally I found that once I described what happened in honest terms, I could start dealing with the issues that caused my choices, which led to a healthier and more authentic existence.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Bittersweetie

[Hulahoop]

I understand what you mean. And yes it could possibly be because I haven’t dealt with it properly yet and explored the reasons why it happened. But also to me it was one huge mistake. It was a mistake thinking our fake friendship was real. It was a mistake thinking that he loved me. It was a mistake thinking that we could be friends after the physical relationship had ended. The definition of mistake is  ‘an act or judgement that is misguided or wrong.’ My whole decisions around that time were misguided and wrong. There is no doubting that. Yes they were bad choices and bad decisions but they were also huge mistakes of mine. 

[IfWishesWereFishes]

13 hours ago, SS2855 said:

@IfWishesWereFishes thank you thank you thank you for so perfectly summarizing your story so completely as if I could have written it myself. I will need to spend more time looking at your posts but every line this far has been relatable. I feel less alone. Currently going through abandonment grief (just read about SWIRL- fascinating) and trying everyday to regain my once balanced life. In a million years I’d have never known about the impact of affair relationships. Outside of the clear moral issue and harm to others which is so very obvious, if someone told me 2 years ago the psychological toll a relationship like this would take on me I’d have never believed it. Clearly there are SO many layers and patterns to these which goes much deeper than two horrible liars deciding one day to cheat on their partners. This is not to make excuses but to look and say wow... how did I get here and what has living in “this” way done to me? Why do we choose this, what of these sends that signal to the brain that gets you hooked and helps you rationalize away the bad behavior? Rhetorical questions here, but the gravity of it is something. 

@SS2855 You're welcome. I find it comforting to know I'm not alone in feeling this way. It has helped a great deal to read through people's experiences and learn. It's too bad we here couldn't have met under better circumstances. I'd like to one day come to a point where my affair will cease to define who I am and becomes one of many life experiences, as bad as it all was/is. I hope that's possible for me to see one day. 

I read the posts here and think how much understanding and compassion there is out in the world, that really it's not such a bad place. Sometimes I look at myself and think how did I end up here? I find myself feeling unworthy of compassion and understanding. There's this scene in the movie The DaVinci code where that guy flails his back with a whip. That's the way I feel right now, except it's internally.

I'm coming to really understand how I got here and it's not a pretty picture. It's like peeling back layers and layers, going back through time to my own behaviors within my marriage, the walls I erected, the people I push away, and the seeming safety of loneliness and lack of vulnerability, it's a toxin that festers and grows, the behaviors that manifest from really bad stuff and not dealing with them. And, the seeming comfort of just running away. For me, at least, the affair was a bad way for me dealing with overwhelming stress that I tried to compartmentalize; it was truly an escape from myself and life in general. It was my desire to feel loved. It's not just simply two liars. I'd even hazard to say it's not even about my marriage. For me, the affair was wanting a hard reset. That's how unhappy and resentful I had become through the years of avoiding the hard conversations and internalizing it all.

Even though I could not compartmentalize as my MM could and be happy just being together, I was able to compartmentalize somewhat. I was able to place my lies to my family in one box and justify the dishonesty and the hurt towards others. Meanwhile in the MM/affair box, I placed my honest, wholehearted self. And my ability to do that disturbs me greatly. I wonder if there is something seriously mental with my ability to do this. It's like a splitting of the mind. I don't really know. All I know is everyday I keep in NC I feel a little bit better. I feel that I'm regaining my balance slowly and not feeling like a crazed, emotional wreck of a person. 

The dynamics of the affair relationship were so bad, indescribable. I'm not sure if it's different for WH or WW. I'm only speaking from the perspective of the WW in that, for women, generally speaking, we can only really love one person. And when we believe that we find the one person in a MM, we wish with all our hearts to be with him. It is the chemicals in the brain, the push/pull trauma bonding and we become completely irrational. And crazy thing is how I have always prided myself on being the level-headed rational person. And yet here I am, driven by emotion, going through withdrawal, still wondering who I am and what have I done. So, daily, remind myself to just do the best that I can, one step at a time.

[IfWishesWereFishes]

9 hours ago, Bittersweetie said:

I was a WW, had a d-day over ten years ago now. I think the above ties in to what I say often, the mental gymnastics a WS can do in order to justify their choices, to make what they are doing "okay." We WS change the narrative in order to not be the "bad guy" in this situation. At the time of my affair, internally I complained that my H was angry all the time, and that was partly why I looked for someone else. But really my choices were all about me, and not about him at all. And it's really, really hard to accept that, to face our weaknesses head on, and I see many WS either "playing the victim" or hyperfocusing on AP rather than their own growth and healing.. 

And what's tough is those mental gymnastics become a regular coping skill and even harder to recognize and break. So one not only has to break the habit of the affair but also how one mentally dealt with the affair. 

I agree. The rationalizations, the lies we tell, the little boxes we construct are coping skills and they make us not whole. I think this applies to both men and women, but that men maybe have been conditioned to compartmentalize more than women when they are growing up. Boys are told to not feel and told that they should not have emotions and grow up thinking they are less of a man if they express their feelings. These are the boxes that people learn to build, the walls that prevent authenticity. I realized that my relationship with my MM allowed us to be more ourselves, more emotional than either of us had ever been capable or allowed to be. It was freeing. That was the positive aspect of the A. Healthier people would have had more insight and more self-awareness to know that an affair is not the solution. One really terrible thing is how an affair is a mind-f&^k and really made me hit rock bottom. For me, it seems like the A had to happen for me to wake up and get help. 

[Snakesalive]

12 hours ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

generally speaking, we can only really love one person. And when we believe that we find the one person in a MM, we wish with all our hearts to be with him.

Like pretty much all your posts I can relate to this . My relationship with xMM lasted a long time and We had a very messy split in November. I’ve had to resign from my job and had to have contactt with him through this .

jnitally he seemed very apologetic about the way he treated me at the end but as things got complicated with me leaving my job I saw the side that occasionally came out when we were together and I must admit it’s pretty ugly but I chose to ignore it when we were together-strange how we forgive them for so much but it doesn’t always seem to be reciprocated 
 

Every day is hard and I’m taking it one day at a time but through therapy I aM getting to understand how I got here. I’m also looking past his veneer and sometimes it’s so hard to think I put my life heart and soul into him . I too feel like punishing myself -for not seeing things clearly , for not being stronger . 
 

I hope we will all heal together 

[IfWishesWereFishes]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:37 AM, Snakesalive said:

jnitally he seemed very apologetic about the way he treated me at the end but as things got complicated with me leaving my job I saw the side that occasionally came out when we were together and I must admit it’s pretty ugly but I chose to ignore it when we were together-strange how we forgive them for so much but it doesn’t always seem to be reciprocated 

I'm sorry things ended so badly. Judging from all the posts I've read, it never ends well.  Looking on things, I can see how there was this side to my xMM that I kept trying to not see. In a regular relationship, I'd say generally speaking, we would be more on guard and look for red flags.  Lack of forgiveness would've been a huge red flag in a normal relationship. Likewise, people would not tolerate lies in a normal relationship, correct??? Yet... in an affair, the lies are so prominent but we excuse each and every one of them. The lies are so blatant, yet we allow the lies both for ourselves and for the other so that... we can continue the addiction, the limerence, the love. My brain didn't and couldn't recognize the difference. While in the relationship, I felt like I would do anything for love. Love made me that crazy and irrational and capable of changing and upending worlds.

[Snakesalive]

35 minutes ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

My brain didn't and couldn't recognize the difference. While in the relationship, I felt like I would do anything for love

@wisheswerefishes looking back I definitely felt this .

One of the things that’s been hard for me is realising the conversations I’ve had with him since we split  were when he was probably his most honest . By comparison this means everything  he said during the relationship wasn’t real ; so pretty much everything he told me that I built made my future on and used to base my decisions on !! 
I’ve only spoken with him twice since -I called him out on some of the things he said about adoring me , how he told my family he loved me and would  always look after me and all he could say was “well I didn’t feel like I was lying at the time I said those things “ it just makes me realise what’s actually obvious -he lied , whatever his motivations were -he lied . I want and we deserve better . 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Snakesalive
Spelling

[thewoomensay]

Dear MW,

I am intrigued by women who become mistresses. Whenever I come across one, I take the time to listen to her. 

 You were the limping gazelle in the Serengeti. Perhaps you had reached a plateau in your relationship, as most marriages do, and you were seeking attention and validation, which he provided, and in exchange he made you his Ejaculation Station. (Sorry about the imagery).

He manipulated you by using words like love, a future together, and the classic “you will never find another like me”. You should see it clearly now that you were being played like a fiddle because you were the only one who was willing to risk it all. He never planned on leaving his wife. He only wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. And you baked, cut and served it.

The second one is the state of mind. The woman is either broken and easily manipulated or not self-assured. A married man will not be able to convince a confident woman to be his mistress. He will not even bring up the topic because he knows she simply will not allow anyone to make her a secret. She will not accept to be second to anyone. She will not lower herself to accept to suck the D... someone else was spitting on the night before (again, sorry to be graphic but it is the hardcore truth)

In your letter you talk about a sense of loyalty and love, which I highly doubt you practiced. Had you done so, you would have been the first beneficiary, and your family the second. Had you felt love, and I am talking about the pure, peaceful, and light-filled emotion, you would have not allowed toxicity in your vicinity. The two cannot co-exist. We often mistake infatuation with love, but love is pure and does not harm. And if ever in doubt, consult the emotion you have for your children, and you will see.

At the end of paragraph five of your letter, you question “Breadcrumb love is not love. I started to wonder if I deserved to have a full relationship”. Here my dear is the root of all the evil. Not knowing our worth and what we deserve. Had you known, you would not have questioned it, and he would not have used you. The feeling of being off-balance was life’s way of trying to remind you your worth. You gave him more weight than yourself and tipped the scale on one side. His.

“Every time we broke up, he convinced me it was better that we be together than not. He could always convince me to get back together with him and I allowed it”. This is manipulation at its finest. When someone convinces you to override your decision and implement theirs. Regardless of how hard and late it is, I am certain you can now see he was in charge the entire time.

I am glad you did not lose your family. I am happy to see you on this side of life. No matter what happened, this will eventually become a lesson. A lesson for you to know to never allow anyone to make you second to none, again. A lesson to the undecided to guard one’s state of mind. And above everything else, to know one’s worth. You are one of a kind. There is no second place for you. Ever!

Edited March 10, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
group berating

[IfWishesWereFishes]

@thewoomensay such food for thought. where to begin. truly where to begin and how to unravel? This relationship with him has made me doubt myself, my judgement, my past, my choices preceding the affair, my state of mind for the last decade, my relationship with others, and most of all who exactly am I? I do wonder sometimes if being an affair means I'm a monster. How could one be so broken and not really understand it? And most of all, having not seen my capability to get into an affair, how to prevent going down this same path again?  I don't feel like I'm a safe partner for anyone. I have my family still currently, but I feel completely unworthy of their love. Then I remind myself that's extreme thinking as well. I've been a loving and great mom. The wife part, I'm starting to question more and more, seeing how certain actions and thoughts led to increasing distance from my husband. And he, for his part, has just not been an emotionally intimate person.  I feel my love for my husband died long ago.

I don't think my xMM intentionally manipulated me into the affair. He actually tried to get me to leave with him a few months into our relationship. He got a new job in a different city and wanted us to just go, but I would not. I love my children and could not fathom how to make it work. Things for both of us at home were not so good.

Because of this experience, I am working on ending things with my husband though we are in MC now and at least learning about communication and how our communication broke down. Communication is always beneficial. He will always be the father of my kids. I feel like I can't confess my affair even though I want to. For xMM, he is in an abusive home life. If I confess, my xMM would suffer violence at the hands of his wife if my husband decided to tell xMM's wife. I think keeping my affair, taking it to the grave is the only thing. I think that ends up hurting the fewest people. Maybe xMM was right to just want to leave. Divorce seems to be my path.

My husband has not been emotionally available in our relationship. For a long time, all it has been is just going through the motions and I'm starved for intimacy. The affair relationship dynamic itself was terrible, but xMM was not.  I think our relationship was a way to soothe ourselves instead of breaking up our families. That is at least a part of it and yet by being in an affair, surely one day divorce would end up happening anyway. Maybe subconsciously, this was what we were both trying to do. It's really hard to reconcile in my mind. Our empathy for each other made us comfort each other. He was there for me when no one else was and I was there for him when no one else was. It's why I find it really hard to think it isn't love. Love comes in many forms, sometimes at the wrong time, sometimes in the wrong form. 

[Soul-shards]

19 minutes ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

@thewoomensay such food for thought. where to begin. truly where to begin and how to unravel? This relationship with him has made me doubt myself, my judgement, my past, my choices preceding the affair, my state of mind for the last decade, my relationship with others, and most of all who exactly am I? I do wonder sometimes if being an affair means I'm a monster. How could one be so broken and not really understand it? And most of all, having not seen my capability to get into an affair, how to prevent going down this same path again?  I don't feel like I'm a safe partner for anyone. I have my family still currently, but I feel completely unworthy of their love. Then I remind myself that's extreme thinking as well. I've been a loving and great mom. The wife part, I'm starting to question more and more, seeing how certain actions and thoughts led to increasing distance from my husband. And he, for his part, has just not been an emotionally intimate person.  I feel my love for my husband died long ago.

I don't think my xMM intentionally manipulated me into the affair. He actually tried to get me to leave with him a few months into our relationship. He got a new job in a different city and wanted us to just go, but I would not. I love my children and could not fathom how to make it work. Things for both of us at home were not so good.

Because of this experience, I am working on ending things with my husband though we are in MC now and at least learning about communication and how our communication broke down. Communication is always beneficial. He will always be the father of my kids. I feel like I can't confess my affair even though I want to. For xMM, he is in an abusive home life. If I confess, my xMM would suffer violence at the hands of his wife if my husband decided to tell xMM's wife. I think keeping my affair, taking it to the grave is the only thing. I think that ends up hurting the fewest people. Maybe xMM was right to just want to leave. Divorce seems to be my path.

My husband has not been emotionally available in our relationship. For a long time, all it has been is just going through the motions and I'm starved for intimacy. The affair relationship dynamic itself was terrible, but xMM was not.  I think our relationship was a way to soothe ourselves instead of breaking up our families. That is at least a part of it and yet by being in an affair, surely one day divorce would end up happening anyway. Maybe subconsciously, this was what we were both trying to do. It's really hard to reconcile in my mind. Our empathy for each other made us comfort each other. He was there for me when no one else was and I was there for him when no one else was. It's why I find it really hard to think it isn't love. Love comes in many forms, sometimes at the wrong time, sometimes in the wrong form. 

It very much can be love wrapped in toxic, unfavorable circumstances.

[Whaatamidoing]

@Luna66star@IfWishesWereFishesSuch interesting comments you both make about the emotional manipulation and push/pull and the fact that MM would never behave like this in their 'normal' relationship. I have read a lot on how/why men have affairs, I think because I have stated in my situation my MM has a literal perfect life (to look at from the outside) so I have never understood why he was risking it all with me. Many of the articles focus on the mans need to feed his ego, his ability to compartmentalise so this is where i get fed and watered (wife) and this is where I get laid (OW). He has no problem with creating a perfect balance where all his needs are met. Its when the OW starts pushing for a duty that is normally carried out by the wife that he feels an upset in his balancing act and therefore does something to push the OW away until she conforms only to the way he has conditioned her. I was gobsmacked reading about how common it was in affairs. In my case the push and pull was always present, I would pester for something more, a hotel, a night out, drinks after work, something more than the scraps I was getting and he would pull away, I wouldn't hear from him for days.(I say pester but it would be one text question). He would ignore me. He would then show up and act as if nothing happened (he wasn't ignoring me, i was being emotional) and hope that Id forget I had asked for it.

In my trying no outside of work contact I have been writing things down and listing things out, mostly i think because he was making me feel like I had gone crazy. You don't tell someone you love them and then pull away when they ask to have a couple of drinks one night. Its so messed up but because I was so caught up with thinking about the times we had done this, in 8 years probably only happened in the first 2 years I was always hoping and holding out for me. Really what happened was I let him believe that using me for nothing more than sex was ok because I 'understood' that it was more important that he was at home having those few evening drinks likely with his wife. I feel very stupid but was def caught up in the euphoria feeling I had around him. Its made me realise that I really have some deep issues to let someone treat me like that. Even now im thinking about how he isnt trying to convince me he wants me back, it was an arrangement that he has either lined up someone else for or has traded me in for a free porn app.

Good to know that these cycles happen to others and its a form of keeping control. Hope you're coping ok.

[IfWishesWereFishes]

6 minutes ago, Whaatamidoing said:

have affairs, I think because I have stated in my situation my MM has a literal perfect life (to look at from the outside) so I have never understood why he was risking it all with me.

I've never been one to believe anyone has the perfect life. If it were indeed perfect, he would not be with you. I think men sometimes may have affairs because they are trying to cope with their unhappy lives. I think some may not like their "perfect" lives at all. They're just playing out their roles as the dutiful husbands and keeping their mouths shut. They don't like it, but they don't hate it enough to end things with their wives. Some are afraid of being alone because what if it doesn't work out. And, here is where the cowardice is; he won't change things for love because either it's not important enough for him or because he's just afraid of what others will think.  And add in kids and it's even harder to leave.

41 minutes ago, Whaatamidoing said:

Really what happened was I let him believe that using me for nothing more than sex was ok because I 'understood' that it was more important that he was at home having those few evening drinks likely with his wife. I feel very stupid but was def caught up in the euphoria feeling I had around him.

Don't worry about feeling stupid. The euphoria blinds us. The OW/MW provides something they're not getting at home. For the highly sexual, it may be more sex. For the emotion-starved, it may be intimacy. For the adrenaline junky, it's the forbidden aspect. It could be a combination of all these. And affairs are relationships that, at least initially, provide validation. There is extreme validation from both sides at the start. But... and here's the but... once the dynamic is established, it won't change. The MM knows what he can get away with from both sides. From his W, he knows he cannot get away with much. She is demanding as most wives would and are. She has expectations of his behavior.  The OW? Well. He knows she will accept less just by being in this relationship. And I think why, once you know and have seen that he isn't going to change for you, isn't going to leave his "perfect" life for you, you must leave. You must just leave even though it hurts. That should be the demand from you. That is how you get your respect back. Even if you love him, ultimately, if you stay, you love him more than you love and respect yourself. The addictive aspects keep us tethered for awhile, but realize and see it for what it is. And reading on people's experiences, I trust that going NC works. I have faith that it will break my addiction to him. Others have been through it. I will too.

I believe in love and feel love intensely, to my detriment. But, I know love also shouldn't make me cry all the time. Love shouldn't make me crazy. Love shouldn't be deceptive. And if this is what love is, I don't want it. Rational brain says there is love of many sorts. This one love here is not good for me. And til he figures out his life, I want no part of it. If he finds another OW to make things in his life better or happier, then he's a serial cheater. If he works things out with his wife and vows to never go down this path again, then he is a decent man and fulfilling his vows and obligations and I have no place in his life. If he finds other things to dull the pain, like online porn or what have you, I want no part of that. Ultimately, it's better for both parties to leave each other and figure things out in their own lives. And if you're meant to be together later when things have sorted out, then it will work out. Best not to cling to any idea of a future. Wrong timing, right person still equals wrong relationship.

 @WhatamIdoing we're here to be stronger. Keep peeling the onion. layer upon layer. Just get out first and foremost. Realize that even if it were love, it doesn't matter if the timing is bad. Daily, he chooses to be with his wife. Understand the toxicity of it. The push/pull keeps us bonded. The chemicals in the brain keep us bonded. We detox here. Then move forward. Learn never to get into this ever again. I now think of an affair is a form of self-torture. Something inside us is broken, really really broken. And spend time fixing that. Today I'm doing better. Lots of hugs and keep strong. Turn on the cold face at work. Be stony. You can do it.

[Soul-shards]

2 minutes ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

I've never been one to believe anyone has the perfect life. If it were indeed perfect, he would not be with you. I think men sometimes may have affairs because they are trying to cope with their unhappy lives. I think some may not like their "perfect" lives at all. They're just playing out their roles as the dutiful husbands and keeping their mouths shut. They don't like it, but they don't hate it enough to end things with their wives. Some are afraid of being alone because what if it doesn't work out. And, here is where the cowardice is; he won't change things for love because either it's not important enough for him or because he's just afraid of what others will think.  And add in kids and it's even harder to leave.D

Women can do it for the same reason. Human lifespan is not unlimited and pragmatics matter. You can't always just "start over" - it makes no practical sense, only downsides all around.

So whether men or women, people may feel they have no choice but to keep the practical aspects of their existence going (NOT divorce) without completely torturing their soul (affair).

Quote

And I think why, once you know and have seen that he isn't going to change for you, isn't going to leave his "perfect" life for you, you must leave. You must just leave even though it hurts. That should be the demand from you. That is how you get your respect back. Even if you love him, ultimately, if you stay, you love him more than you love and respect yourself. The addictive aspects keep us tethered for awhile, but realize and see it for what it is. And reading on people's experiences, I trust that going NC works. I have faith that it will break my addiction to him. Others have been through it. I will too.

The situation where he is a MM and the woman is single, watching him live his (now) complete life - stability from marriage, excitement from A - is absolutely doomed from the start. This is why such love makes you cry all the time. Only if both AP-s are in the same situation (married,  with unsatisfying but pragmatically binding marriages) could things work out in that unconventional way, at least for a while.

So sorry to read about all the heartache. I fully empathize.

 

[thewoomensay]

Hello again.

 

I think you need to give yourself  a chance. There are moments in life we are all tested to breaking points. I have a hunch you have been through a few. You are not a monster. You are in need of care, nurture and of therapy. There are several things that have happened in your life even before you met MM. They are the root cause of your pain.  

it is a common thing for couples to resort to silence in the most inopportune moments. Just when when we need them most, we shut down and shut them out or vice versa. Learning how to communicate our feelings is a wonderful thing. It breeds new life and gives us room for many possibilities and opportunity. Please be patient with yourself. Be present and just center on healing. You are more powerful than you ever know. Anyone can throw in the towel and leave. But warriors don't quit. Fight for your family. Picture yourself on the other side of the battle. Victorious. Healed. Loved. In love. Prospering. Joyfully in love with the family you saved. Imagine yourselves old, still walking hand in hand. We create the life we think about.

I know you are hurting. I am sure your husband is as well. If addicts can recover and lead a peaceful life, know that we can all overcome our challenges. 

 

I don't know you personally. But i am rooting with all my heart for your triumph.

 

Much love, peace and healing to you, Beautiful soul.

 

Take care 

 

 

18 hours ago, IfWishesWereFishes said:

@thewoomensay such food for thought. where to begin. truly where to begin and how to unravel? This relationship with him has made me doubt myself, my judgement, my past, my choices preceding the affair, my state of mind for the last decade, my relationship with others, and most of all who exactly am I? I do wonder sometimes if being an affair means I'm a monster. How could one be so broken and not really understand it? And most of all, having not seen my capability to get into an affair, how to prevent going down this same path again?  I don't feel like I'm a safe partner for anyone. I have my family still currently, but I feel completely unworthy of their love. Then I remind myself that's extreme thinking as well. I've been a loving and great mom. The wife part, I'm starting to question more and more, seeing how certain actions and thoughts led to increasing distance from my husband. And he, for his part, has just not been an emotionally intimate person.  I feel my love for my husband died long ago.

I don't think my xMM intentionally manipulated me into the affair. He actually tried to get me to leave with him a few months into our relationship. He got a new job in a different city and wanted us to just go, but I would not. I love my children and could not fathom how to make it work. Things for both of us at home were not so good.

Because of this experience, I am working on ending things with my husband though we are in MC now and at least learning about communication and how our communication broke down. Communication is always beneficial. He will always be the father of my kids. I feel like I can't confess my affair even though I want to. For xMM, he is in an abusive home life. If I confess, my xMM would suffer violence at the hands of his wife if my husband decided to tell xMM's wife. I think keeping my affair, taking it to the grave is the only thing. I think that ends up hurting the fewest people. Maybe xMM was right to just want to leave. Divorce seems to be my path.