There's no turning back

[heart_stumble]

So I've been posting in another thread about my SO and how relationship went to the dogs.

Basically I tried to fix it, she was already out the door - during this time I suspected infidelity, she lead me on to think it was reconcilable. Tried space, now at separation, then during this distress phase I found out she's been having an affair for almost a year (got evidence).

I also found out she's been slandering my side of the family and pushing that as the main reason why we're over. I know its an excuse.

She doesn't know I know about her affair, most painful part for me is that she dragged our baby into her entanglement with new flame. I don't know to what extent. If I expose her, it could potentially mess up her job and the flames as well, I think desperate people may be willing to do anything to make sure the truth doesn't get out. All this in 1 and a half months.

Separation is ongoing, we're to decide how to split furniture et al. I'm moving out next month. As I settle down, will wait to see how she handles child sharing, already signs that it will be difficult.

If it proves too difficult I'm considering gloves off approach and confront. I'll be meeting my lawyer also for guidance on the same.

Edited February 16, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, heart_stumble said:

So I've been posting in another thread about my SO and how relationship went to the dogs. Basically I tried to fix it, she was already out the door - during this time I suspected infidelity, she lead me on to think it was reconcilable. Tried space, now at separation, then during this distress phase I found out she's been having an affair for almost a year (got evidence).

I'm sorry this was the outcome, OP. 

I remember you other thread and I immediately suspected there was someone else in the picture. Her skipping out on you and your child, random sleepovers at a friend's - it just didn't add up. 

Now that you know the truth (even if she doesn't know that yet), you can proceed from a more informed place. It hurts but it's better that you know the truth about what exactly you're dealing with. 

[heart_stumble]

9 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I'm sorry this was the outcome, OP. 

I remember you other thread and I immediately suspected there was someone else in the picture. Her skipping out on you and your child, random sleepovers at a friend's - it just didn't add up. 

Now that you know the truth (even if she doesn't know that yet), you can proceed from a more informed place. It hurts but it's better that you know the truth about what exactly you're dealing with. 

Thanks, it's very sad. I sense she might make things complicated since the flame is also married. Had a chat on phone which ended with her trying to trigger me. Just found out that he may have already engaged her, and her family knows there's something going on between them and support it coz = "happiness" I just keep wondering if its worth confronting her, but then I think then what?Whether I do or not the outcome is sealed. Maybe for my own closure, and so she can stop the slander? Been talking to people I can confide in, its helping and also giving me perspective on how to deal with the issue. I feel that I need to focus on just getting out first.

[mark clemson]

If you think you might have to pay child and/or spousal support, suggest you don't do anything in a way that would make it impact her income. "Act in haste, regret at leisure."

[heart_stumble]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If you think you might have to pay child and/or spousal support, suggest you don't do anything in a way that would make it impact her income. "Act in haste, regret at leisure."

As of now, I do not intend on doing anything that could affect her income.

Before I found out all this, I made it clear that my only regret would be that we didn't try everything to save us. I have made peace and am starting to feel some relief. I called a meet between us + her sis, my bro and very close friend to announce the separation because living under one roof just isn't working, I( didn't go into the details why) because I felt everyone's been retreating to their own corners. During the meet she laid out all her grievances - not being accepted by my family, my short comings etc got emotional and went to how she would never do anything behind my back, how strongly she believes in the marriage institution etc I didn't respond to any of this because I knew it would just turn into an argument and explode. We kept our cool and I only agreed to some of the comments she made and wished only that we could heal separately and see what the future holds.

Before the meeting we had a chat, which really surprised me - we were talking about moving out, how we'll split furniture. Anyway during which she says that I look happy and she's seen some change in me from how I'm handling the separation. Tried to prod who's advising me and went on to how she'll always be there for me in any way going forward - psychologically, financially etc and that one day I'll look back and see she did the right thing. In my mind I'm like "what's happening here?! Did you just switch sides..." I stay calm and just say that living together + space isn't working out so its only logical to move to the next step ASAP and I only want the best for our baby. I sense she may have guilt, but I'm too far gone to care much right now. I expect some relapses, but I'm glad to be able to sleep through the night in the last couple of days and mostly maintain a clear mind through the day. A few weeks ago I was in hell.

[mark clemson]

Don't think she switched sides. More like just being reasonably nice and/or trying to keep you around as "Plan B" perhaps. Overall it's too bad, but seems like you're handling it reasonably well.  Hopefully once fully single you'll be able to find a nicer new girl.  GL!

[heart_stumble]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Don't think she switched sides. More like just being reasonably nice and/or trying to keep you around as "Plan B" perhaps. Overall it's too bad, but seems like you're handling it reasonably well.  Hopefully once fully single you'll be able to find a nicer new girl.  GL!

Thanks!

The other thing on my mind besides co-parenting is how this will affect/is affecting our 2 year old daughter. Being that she's been exposed to the AP multiple times, and I don't know under what circumstances - were they alone, if so what effect on her at that age - will it manifest later. I know the flame has a younger kid, do they always hangout? I doubt though the flame's SO will allow him to go off into the night alone with the kid. 

It unsettled me yesterday after I asked her for a video call with her so I could see my daughter and she says her phone is having an issue and can't do the video call (BS IMO) .So I asked her to use someone else's phone, since she's "at her sister's place" asked her to send a photo she didn't respond, and later chats me I'll see my daughter next day and will with her all weekend 🙄.

[mark clemson]

Don't know what to tell you. There are some things you can control, some you can partly influence, and some you just can't. I'm no expert on custody sharing, but keep an eye on all the kids. No reason to be paranoid, but just in case there's anything problematic. Ultimately there are lots of kids with divorced/separated parents and while I'm sure it's not great, most seem to be able to ultimately adjust, especially if there are not significant other issues.

Separation may actually be better than in certain marriages where the parents just don't get along. That probably wouldn't have been the case with yours (except for what's now happening) but - your situation is what it is. In your case I guess you'll just have to try to make lemonade out of the lemons as much as you can. It's a shame.

[Marc878]

On 2/18/2021 at 11:56 PM, heart_stumble said:

As of now, I do not intend on doing anything that could affect her income.

Before I found out all this, I made it clear that my only regret would be that we didn't try everything to save us. I have made peace and am starting to feel some relief. I called a meet between us + her sis, my bro and very close friend to announce the separation because living under one roof just isn't working, I( didn't go into the details why) because I felt everyone's been retreating to their own corners. During the meet she laid out all her grievances - not being accepted by my family, my short comings etc got emotional and went to how she would never do anything behind my back, how strongly she believes in the marriage institution etc I didn't respond to any of this because I knew it would just turn into an argument and explode. We kept our cool and I only agreed to some of the comments she made and wished only that we could heal separately and see what the future holds.

Before the meeting we had a chat, which really surprised me - we were talking about moving out, how we'll split furniture. Anyway during which she says that I look happy and she's seen some change in me from how I'm handling the separation. Tried to prod who's advising me and went on to how she'll always be there for me in any way going forward - psychologically, financially etc and that one day I'll look back and see she did the right thing. In my mind I'm like "what's happening here?! Did you just switch sides..." I stay calm and just say that living together + space isn't working out so its only logical to move to the next step ASAP and I only want the best for our baby. I sense she may have guilt, but I'm too far gone to care much right now. I expect some relapses, but I'm glad to be able to sleep through the night in the last couple of days and mostly maintain a clear mind through the day. A few weeks ago I was in hell.

Very typical cheater. Lie, hide and deny.

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

Currently you are helping hide her affair which is great for her but what’s it getting you?

Afterwards she’ll like most want to be “friends”. This is all for her not you. It helps alleviate guilt. You get an extended stay in limbo.
 

Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy 

[Marc878]

On 2/19/2021 at 10:41 PM, heart_stumble said:

Thanks!

The other thing on my mind besides co-parenting is how this will affect/is affecting our 2 year old daughter. Being that she's been exposed to the AP multiple times, and I don't know under what circumstances - were they alone, if so what effect on her at that age - will it manifest later. I know the flame has a younger kid, do they always hangout? I doubt though the flame's SO will allow him to go off into the night alone with the kid. 

It unsettled me yesterday after I asked her for a video call with her so I could see my daughter and she says her phone is having an issue and can't do the video call (BS IMO) .So I asked her to use someone else's phone, since she's "at her sister's place" asked her to send a photo she didn't respond, and later chats me I'll see my daughter next day and will with her all weekend 🙄.

Her other man was probably there.

[Marc878]

If she gets fired for cause I doubt it’ll affect your alimony or child support from what I’ve seen but check with your attorney to be sure.

It seems like most you are living in fear. Not uncommon but it will keep you in a state of limbo longer.

read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. It’s helped many and maybe just want you need.

No contact is your best friend if you could successfully apply it.

Those that get strong quick come out of these situations best. Sitting back and taking what your given won’t get you much.

good luck to you.

[heart_stumble]

19 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Don't know what to tell you. There are some things you can control, some you can partly influence, and some you just can't. I'm no expert on custody sharing, but keep an eye on all the kids. No reason to be paranoid, but just in case there's anything problematic. Ultimately there are lots of kids with divorced/separated parents and while I'm sure it's not great, most seem to be able to ultimately adjust, especially if there are not significant other issues.

Separation may actually be better than in certain marriages where the parents just don't get along. That probably wouldn't have been the case with yours (except for what's now happening) but - your situation is what it is. In your case I guess you'll just have to try to make lemonade out of the lemons as much as you can. It's a shame.

Thanks. I'll stick to lemonades and avoid cocktails with lemonade for now. It's the only way forward.

5 hours ago, Marc878 said:

Very typical cheater. Lie, hide and deny.

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

Currently you are helping hide her affair which is great for her but what’s it getting you?

Afterwards she’ll like most want to be “friends”. This is all for her not you. It helps alleviate guilt. You get an extended stay in limbo.
 

Definition of friend = loyal, honest and trustworthy 

I'll confront her and expose all after I've moved out. Plus I'll make it clear the only reason we can be "friends" is because of our daughter. Unfortunately I still believe there's a light in her, but in my mind currently there's no way we can resolve anything.

4 hours ago, Marc878 said:

If she gets fired for cause I doubt it’ll affect your alimony or child support from what I’ve seen but check with your attorney to be sure.

It seems like most you are living in fear. Not uncommon but it will keep you in a state of limbo longer.

read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. It’s helped many and maybe just want you need.

No contact is your best friend if you could successfully apply it.

Those that get strong quick come out of these situations best. Sitting back and taking what your given won’t get you much.

good luck to you.

Full blown NC will not be possible because of our daughter. But won't stop me from living my life, and each day I feel like I'm moving closer towards fully healing and moving on.

I moved to the guest room in our house and told her that going forward if and when she wants to come home she can have the master bedroom until we're out of the house. I know she may want to have her cake and eat it, so I'm really hoping I don't fall for any of her traps/triggers to reel me in, coz man she still looks so fine 🤪

[Marc878]

 

Quote

Full blown NC will not be possible because of our daughter. But won't stop me from living my life, and each day I feel like I'm moving closer towards fully healing and moving on.

I moved to the guest room in our house and told her that going forward if and when she wants to come home she can have the master bedroom until we're out of the house. I know she may want to have her cake and eat it, so I'm really hoping I don't fall for any of her traps/triggers to reel me in, coz man she still looks so fine 🤪

I have a close friend who’s wife left him for her boss. He communicates strictly by text or email kids only. He has two girls that are in grade school. He did the same with divorce info. It can be done but a lot make excuses to stay in contact. Usually from a hopium addiction or trying to control the situation. You only have control over yourself, your phone. Use it or you will stay tied up in this.

She cheats and you give up the marital bedroom to her? Why? It just makes you look bad especially knowing what you know.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Marc878

[Marc878]

25 minutes ago, heart_stumble said:

I'll confront her and expose all after I've moved out. Plus I'll make it clear the only reason we can be "friends" is because of our daughter. Unfortunately I still believe there's a light in her, but in my mind currently there's no way we can resolve anything.

 

You don’t need to confront her. Hell man, She knows she’s cheating. I would do family, friends etc. all at once. Don’t trickle it out. You’ll probably find a lot more knew than you suspected.
 

Typically in these cases the cheating spouse rewrites the marital history making the betrayed spouse out to be the bad guy.  Don’t be surprised at what she’s told everyone. All cheaters lie a lot.

[Marc878]

39 minutes ago, heart_stumble said:

 

Plus I'll make it clear the only reason we can be "friends" is because of our daughter. Unfortunately I still believe there's a light in her, but in my mind currently there's no way we can resolve anything.

I don't fall for any of her traps/triggers to reel me in, coz man she still looks so fine 🤪

You wanna go the friends route go ahead but it’s a real bad idea.

maybe you missed it. Afterwards she’ll like most want to be “friends”. This is all for her not you. It helps alleviate guilt. You get an extended stay in limbo.
 

Some snakes are beautiful but they will bite you. You have control you’d be wise to use it.

Read “No More Mr Nice Guy”

All the advice in the world wont do you any good if you don’t apply it.

Good luck. No one is prepared for this crap. Be wise and use knowledge from those who have been through this before you.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Marc878

[heart_stumble]

8 hours ago, Marc878 said:

 

I have a close friend who’s wife left him for her boss. He communicates strictly by text or email kids only. He has two girls that are in grade school. He did the same with divorce info. It can be done but a lot make excuses to stay in contact. Usually from a hopium addiction or trying to control the situation. You only have control over yourself, your phone. Use it or you will stay tied up in this.

She cheats and you give up the marital bedroom to her? Why? It just makes you look bad especially knowing what you know.

I hear you. I know in my case it would be to try and control the situation. I gave up the marital bedroom because I won't be taking the bed, told her if i did i would just sell it because I'm moving to a smaller house. She insisted on keeping it. Couches, same story I would just sell, she insisted no, that would be at a loss insisted I keep them..?

8 hours ago, Marc878 said:

You don’t need to confront her. Hell man, She knows she’s cheating. I would do family, friends etc. all at once. Don’t trickle it out. You’ll probably find a lot more knew than you suspected.
 

Typically in these cases the cheating spouse rewrites the marital history making the betrayed spouse out to be the bad guy.  Don’t be surprised at what she’s told everyone. All cheaters lie a lot.

Far as I'm concerned her family is complicit and I know the main story, which she still sticks to now is that my family never accepted her from the beginning...😒
 

8 hours ago, Marc878 said:

You wanna go the friends route go ahead but it’s a real bad idea.

maybe you missed it. Afterwards she’ll like most want to be “friends”. This is all for her not you. It helps alleviate guilt. You get an extended stay in limbo.
 

Some snakes are beautiful but they will bite you. You have control you’d be wise to use it.

Read “No More Mr Nice Guy”

All the advice in the world wont do you any good if you don’t apply it.

Good luck. No one is prepared for this crap. Be wise and use knowledge from those who have been through this before you.

Some of my friends say exactly the same thing. Being friends will only keep me in a weird limbo and make her feel less guilty. Thanks for your advice and I'll read up on it. I'll admit, I'm a nice guy.

[Marc878]

1 hour ago, heart_stumble said:

I hear you. I know in my case it would be to try and control the situation. I gave up the marital bedroom because I won't be taking the bed, told her if i did i would just sell it because I'm moving to a smaller house. She insisted on keeping it. Couches, same story I would just sell, she insisted no, that would be at a loss insisted I keep them..?

Concentrate on you. That’s all you have control over. Your kids on your time only. Don’t do family time together or holidays. Keep everything separate. You have your time. She has hers. She’ll be introducing them to her boyfriend if she hasn’t already. You can’t stop that. 

Far as I'm concerned her family is complicit and I know the main story, which she still sticks to now is that my family never accepted her from the beginning...😒

Blame shifting. That’s all it is. Cheaters lie a lot. Very common.

Some of my friends say exactly the same thing. Being friends will only keep me in a weird limbo and make her feel less guilty. Thanks for your advice and I'll read up on it. I'll admit, I'm a nice guy.

Use this as a way to make yourself a better man, father.  Being nice doesn’t mean you allow yourself to get walked on.  Read the book. It’s free. You’ll be better off for it.

Exposure will get you some closure. It’s not your job to hide it. Plus it will be a new beginning for you. You don’t take crap from anyone. No need to confront her. I wouldn’t inform her in anyway. Let her find out like you had to find out about her affair. This is what prompted the separation. So she could spend more time with her new boyfriend and led to the divorce. Get the D papers signed first.

She’ll be very angry but affairs only operate in secret and the dark. It’s the consequences so let her deal with it. You have evidence use it so everyone will know it’s the truth. Depending on what it is. Don’t publish nude pics, etc.

You’re gonna be fine if you can do the basics. You control you and your phone. Don’t get dragged into conversations. Talking won’t get you a thing. Messages should be short and to the point. You’ll probably get some engagement but it’s ok to ignore or not respond unless it’s kid related.  Take your time in responding. Always ask yourself. Does this need a response? Often it won’t. 
 

When dropping the kids off or picking them up do not allow her into your home and stay out of hers. You can do these in 3 minutes or less. If she tries to engage just say I gotta go.  AND LEAVE.

This may sound draconian but it’s to get you detached and to a better place. The child will adjust. 

Keep posting if you need more info.  Good luck.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Marc878

[heart_stumble]

@Marc878 Thanks for your advice. I got the book audiobook and PDF, Already into chapter one, where has this been all my life.

13 hours ago, Marc878 said:

Exposure will get you some closure. It’s not your job to hide it. Plus it will be a new beginning for you. You don’t take crap from anyone. No need to confront her. I wouldn’t inform her in anyway. Let her find out like you had to find out about her affair. This is what prompted the separation. So she could spend more time with her new boyfriend and led to the divorce. Get the D papers signed first.

I'm reluctant to use file the evidence in divorce proceedings unless she makes things complicated, main reason is it will ruin her and possibly the MM's career. I need to tell her I know so she can stop taking me for a ride and know one of the main reasons why I stopped trying. I spoke to my lawyer, he advised using it if things start getting messy. Funny thing, I just recently found out from a third party about it.

 

13 hours ago, Marc878 said:

When dropping the kids off or picking them up do not allow her into your home and stay out of hers. You can do these in 3 minutes or less. If she tries to engage just say I gotta go.  AND LEAVE.

When talking about separation, she suggested me going by her place to hangout with our daughter 🤢. I asked her to just think about what she just said, given that she wanted the separation left it there. I can't wait for end of March to be physically out. I'll keep posting as days go by. Better everyday, going for a morning cycle with some close friends to start the day tomorrow.

[Marc878]

4 hours ago, heart_stumble said:

@Marc878 Thanks for your advice. I got the book audiobook and PDF, Already into chapter one, where has this been all my life.

I'm reluctant to use file the evidence in divorce proceedings unless she makes things complicated, main reason is it will ruin her and possibly the MM's career. I need to tell her I know so she can stop taking me for a ride and know one of the main reasons why I stopped trying. I spoke to my lawyer, he advised using it if things start getting messy. Funny thing, I just recently found out from a third party about it.

 Good thing to have in your back pocket for now. After you get the D signed/finalized drop the bomb. I’d bet MM’s wife is going through hell and not knowing why.

When talking about separation, she suggested me going by her place to hangout with our daughter 🤢. I asked her to just think about what she just said, given that she wanted the separation left it there. I can't wait for end of March to be physically out. I'll keep posting as days go by. Better everyday, going for a morning cycle with some close friends to start the day tomorrow.

Like I said she wants the best of both worlds. It’s called cake eating. You know what to do. 
 

Good job on reading the book. It won’t do you much good unless you apply it.

It sounds like  you get this so you should be fine.

You should realize you aren’t losing much.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Marc878

[Marc878]

As you reflect back you’ll see how everything makes sense now.
 

An affair trumps everything. Spouse, family, children, etc. Nothing else matters to a cheater. 
 

Once it’s blown up steer clear. Let her deal with it.

When will the divorce be final?

 

[heart_stumble]

I'll speak to my lawyer once I move out. Timeline really depends on both of us, how long it takes to agree on a parental agreement, child sharing et al before filing - which could be done in maybe 6 months, so long as both parties agree. I know my contributions to the failure of our relationship and everyday I take a step back I see clearly how also we were not aligned on a fundamental level. The last thing I'd expect was a full blown affair with seemingly all important people in her life complicit in.

[Marc878]

3 hours ago, heart_stumble said:

I'll speak to my lawyer once I move out. Timeline really depends on both of us, how long it takes to agree on a parental agreement, child sharing et al before filing - which could be done in maybe 6 months, so long as both parties agree. I know my contributions to the failure of our relationship and everyday I take a step back I see clearly how also we were not aligned on a fundamental level. The last thing I'd expect was a full blown affair with seemingly all important people in her life complicit in.

You both were in the same marriage. I doubt she was perfect. Did her imperfections cause you to cheat?
 

Wake up fully to who/what she is. You aren’t there yet.
 

Her blame shifting was BS.  It sounds like you have some more introspection to do.

It’s ok to improve, work on yourself. We all need to do that but she cheated because she wanted to. Bud, it’s as simple as that. It’s a flaw in her character. You didn’t cause that.

As you reflect back you’ll see things you missed or ignored. Her actions are that of a selfish person who only looks out for themself. What married mother leaves her child for periods of time to be with her boyfriend?

[Marc878]

I’ve seen many living on hopium waiting for them to “get it”. It’s usually the betrayed who doesn’t “get it”. That’s who they are. You can’t fix that.

Let’s say she comes back (normally when they get dumped, etc) looking for a comfortable place to land. Will it happen again? The capability is there. Do you really want to be looking over your shoulder?
 

Any reconciliation takes 3-5 years with no guarantees. I can’t tell you how many repeated affairs I’ve seen. Very common. These things can waste years of a persons life.

You are in control of you and your life. You deserve better than you’ve gotten.

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, heart_stumble said:

I'll speak to my lawyer once I move out. Timeline really depends on both of us, how long it takes to agree on a parental agreement, child sharing et al before filing - which could be done in maybe 6 months, so long as both parties agree.

Since you've decided to divorce (can't say I blame you) consider if there's an option to go to negotiation as quickly as possible. IMO there can be all sorts of motions and filings that don't accomplish much except put money into the lawyers' pockets. They may also suggest things that subtly piss off the other party, making them more willing to spend money to attempt "get back at them" via the legal system. Being served notice at work is one of these IMO as it embarrasses the person in front of one of their most important social groups (their co-workers).

Even good lawyers like to get paid a little bit more. IMO DO work with your lawyer/follow their advice, just be on the lookout for stuff like this and see if there are less triggering alternative approaches.

You can also get free initial consults from many family lawyers, so it may be possible to go visit a few and get some of your questions answered without paying $300+/hr for it.

[heart_stumble]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Since you've decided to divorce (can't say I blame you) consider if there's an option to go to negotiation as quickly as possible. IMO there can be all sorts of motions and filings that don't accomplish much except put money into the lawyers' pockets. They may also suggest things that subtly piss off the other party, making them more willing to spend money to attempt "get back at them" via the legal system. Being served notice at work is one of these IMO as it embarrasses the person in front of one of their most important social groups (their co-workers).

Even good lawyers like to get paid a little bit more. IMO DO work with your lawyer/follow their advice, just be on the lookout for stuff like this and see if there are less triggering alternative approaches.

You can also get free initial consults from many family lawyers, so it may be possible to go visit a few and get some of your questions answered without paying $300+/hr for it.

This is my current approach, once I move out I'd want to get to a negotiating table and have at least most of the important/critical things ironed out before formally involving legal for all the reasons you've mentioned. I'm currently seeking advice from a lawyer, (close friend to my family) we've meet regarding the issue, he's not charged me for that. Giving guidance on how to proceed amicably at the moment.

Just another thought during my introspection. My now WS, when I met her had very few friends and as we grew closer I saw her systematically kill off those friendships - only kept one or two - (who she rarely contacted, months would go by). No one from her lineup ever came to visit our baby, all my linesmen did. I noticed her only circle is her siblings and mum during the whole time we were together. I on the other hand grew my social circle, chat with neighbors where we lived, entered other social circles etc. I always tried to insist that she find people she can be friends or some activity besides work to engage with other people...but nope. Also I wouldn't want our baby growing up thinking that's how life's supposed to be, kind of anti-social. This is going forward a red flag I've got to be observant of in future relationships.