This is a soap opera.

[otj287]

So, I think this is my first time here (posting) and I *think* this would be the best place to post this.  Anyway, met a girl YEARS ago.  Didn't work out for a number of reasons (mainly, she just wasn't mature, had some alcohol issues, but was fun etc.).  She moved to Orlando for work and my job didn’t allow me to relocate, so I was still in New England.  We lost touch after a while and then I got a message on Facebook about 6 months ago (we hadn't been friends, kept in touch, or anything but naturally I had thought about her from time to time.)

First it started as she wondered how I was doing ... I said I had been through some relationships since, been divorced and that was it – no real conversation – little sparks of words here and there (nothing flirtations, nothing really substantial at all).  Then, weeks later she sent some other messages.. she's married (I gathered by her profile pic) but apparently was not happy for a variety of reasons.  She also has a year old child that she said is now her life and so happy that she’s a mom.  I had known she had remarried at some point and heard a rumor she had a child, but, again, wasn’t pursuing anything on my end.  She starts to reminisce about us years and years earlier (it was fun to remember, honestly) and says how great we would've been as a couple (maybe yes, maybe no.. who knows) and some playful flirting.

Then, a few months later it got intense.  We haven't "spoken", just some texts (nothing over Christmas, New Year, etc.)... nothing "scheduled" or regular.  She asks if had still thought about moving to FL (when we first met, I had always said I’d love to move to FL (to retire) not as an “I’m moving for you” type of conversation.  But, then she asked if I wanted to be a dad (she didn’t say her baby’s dad.. just “a dad”, that she thought about having another kid at some point and if I saw a future with her etc.  Kind of spooked me out to be honest as, I'm semi-retired, I'm 46, she's 36'ish and this was volunteered info.

So… She's tells me she’s now going THROUGH the divorce (didn't divorce yet, but waiting on the judges signature as it’s been filed).  And, then she drops another bombshell - she's seeing someone else.  Mind you, it wasn't my business but in one of my conversations (texts), I told her as someone who had been through a divorce before, I wouldn’t start anything with anyone until after the divorce is final.  The emotional ups and downs, etc. etc. were just crazy… and I had an amicable divorce with no kids.  She said this other person isn't serious, someone she just met through some friends, apparently he also has a kid (not with her) and is ALSO going through a divorce (no idea where they are in the process).  But, then she said if I would be open to giving us a "real chance", she'd end things with the "side" dude and (I guess).

I didn't know how to reply, so I didn't.  I honestly was so shocked, I didn’t know what to say so I didn’t reply.   What bothered me was that during out earlier conversations, I had explained that I had an ailin parent I was taking care of and despite being “semi-retired” now, I still had a few businesses that I owned, etc.  I figured if she were so interested, she’d ask about them but no – it was as though my “circumstances” didn’t matter. 

To be honest, I'm not just confused but I'm hurt.  We've both had our chances and although it didn't work "then", I get a follow up text tonight telling me that she hasn't heard back and I guess if I'm going to give it a shot with her, she wants a commitment.  That we've done this dance of popping into each others lives and she can't do this anymore (I don't recall this, but maybe we did pop into each others live one other time maybe?  Giving the benefit of the doubt).  What I don't like is that none of my life now matters to her -- I get she has a kid now, but I also have a life, elsewhere, responsibilities, etc.  I can't just UP and MOVE because she gives a statement saying she wants a commitment.  She's always been this "intense".  Having been through a divorce myself, I know they are tough.  I know how emotional they can be, but I feel like somehow I'm the one that's getting beat up over it and don't find it fair.

I’ve asked those that are close to me that know her and they all say the same thing – Let the ship sail.  There’s a lot of baggage right now and until things are finalized, I’m going to end up hurt if I go down this route.  They also say, I shouldn’t be made to feel like an ultimatum is needed now with someone who has so much unfinished business, let alone that I just can’t “up and leave” on a whim, which means that I am crazy enough to think something is either there or ‘possibly’ that I would consider it.

She’s tied to Orlando because of the child, so for the next 18 years, she has to either live there or be within (I think?) 90 minutes as part of the agreement.  I don’t see myself there but what upsets me the most is that what I do remember with her is that is was always about her, on her timeline and I always felt like I had very little/to no, say in things.  We had a blast, but it was very much about her.

She mentions that everything now she’s doing is because of her child, which I totally understand. It has to be.  But, I also think she’s making some very poor decisions before the divorce is finalized.

I remember feeling alone, and hurt, and “lost” and I can only imagine it’s worse with a young child.  But, is it then normal to make people feel this way about considering a future with them?

My history with relationships has always been that I’m the “fixer”.  I love a good project, somehow get hurt, and then repeat and I’m trying not to do that again.  My friends that know her say this is a fixer project all over again and, if I’m serious about things, maybe the paths will cross at a later time in a better environment, but for now, stay out of it.  She’s got too many irons in the fire and knowing that the divorce isn’t final, she’s got a boyfriend (in whatever capacity), not to mention the emotionality of the divorce itself, just let it be, let alone being given an ultimatum at a time where we hadn’t spoken of getting back together at all!  Needless to say, I’m confused but more hurt at how I’m being spoken to.

I haven’t returned the text.  Don’t know if I’m going to, to be honest, I just know that I don’t need to be spoken to like this and while I feel for the circumstance, it’s coming at a mental health drain for me.

Edited February 16, 2021 by otj287
clarification

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, otj287 said:

I haven’t returned the text.  Don’t know if I’m going to, to be honest, I just know that I don’t need to be spoken to like this and while I feel for the circumstance, it’s coming at a mental health drain for me.

Good call. In fact tell her you need to cut contact then simply delete and block her and all her people from all your social media and messaging apps. You're right, who needs this drama? It sounds like she is stuck at home and bored to death chatting up every guy she can think of telling each one the same pack of lies. 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Wiseman2

[otj287]

Thanks.  I don't like confrontation but I just found myself feeling insulted at her lack of what was happening in "my" life.  Not to take away anything of what she's going through, because, I'm sure it's terrible - but it somehow made me seem like I was less of a "someone she always loved" and more of a "Plan A didn't work, not sure what is going on.. I'm all over the place and I'm reaching for anything "stable" because I'm not dealing well with this now". 

I haven't a clue as to what it's like dealing with a divorce so quickly after a child, but it just seemed all too much too fast and I don't think it was appropriate to have "stipulations" when we haven't even had a real phone call! 

My spidey signal usually doesn't go off, but I just didn't see this particular issue working out with so many moving parts where nothing is resolved and for once, I'm proud of myself for not putting up with feeling like I'm being spoken down to or being forced to make decisions quickly.

Thx for your reply!

[Calendula]

Listen to your friends and run far and fast from this one. Seems to me that this person doesn't want to be a part of your life as much as she wants to use you as part of hers.

It is like she's built up this fictional impression of you based on knowing you in the past and hasn't bothered to inquire as to how you really are now. It seems she thinks she can just drop into your life and is entitled to expect certain things of you because of her fictional image of who you are.

She's using messaging with you as an emotional outlet for all her problems but not really giving you any kind of emotional support or feedback in turn. She isn't being rational or in any way fair or considerate of you as an individual with your own life. It is absolutely ridiculous that she would ask for any kind of "commitment" based on the way you describe the level of your current interactions. There is no real connection here and I think you see that instinctively.

If there was a connection then she would have asked you more personal questions about yourself and actually shown some kind of care or consideration for the things you're currently dealing with. Being the kind of person who is a "fixer" isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does mean that you have to be more cautious about the kind of people who take and take and use others without any consideration for what you need in return. And this woman absolutely sounds like a "taker." 

Edited February 17, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
paragraphs

[Calendula]

6 hours ago, otj287 said:

I think this is my first time here (posting)

Also, welcome to LS! This is where I direct my friends when they need to work through relationship stuff and I hope you can find what you need here, either through your posts and direct feedback or through browsing the extensive archives of posts of others. 

[otj287]

Thanks @Calendula.. Yeah, it's a shame because I think if things were different, there actually "might" be a future (heck, who knows?).  But it seems like there are just WAAAAY too many complications right now to even begin to entertain.  Plus, as a friend told me the other day "How many other irons in the fire" does she have?  Fact is, we haven't seen each other for countless years.  If she were younger, I would've totally understood the texting -- that's a generational thing.  But, now to have such a serious conversation given we did have a history and aren't "teens" anymore is just odd.  I'm a little older and definitely don't consider myself old fashioned at all, but come on.  Since we had spoken before this latest "pop-in", it just upset me that there was such an urgency for me to "feel" (maybe it wasn't her intention, I don't know) .. but the way I felt was that I had to make this decision "now" without even a word about how "my" life was going to be affected through a text.  I don't have the texts now - I deleted them after my initial post here so I wasn't harping on what they meant, or looking too deep into meanings etc.

I had dinner with a friend the other day and told him about the issue and he reminded me that even when I spoke of her from years ago, it was always about what "she" wanted and how things were with her and didn't know where I fit in.  So, I guess things haven't changed after all this time after all.

It hurts because I wasn't expecting the original reach-out after so long so it brought up a lot of old feelings that I guess never were "closed".  Not that I want to hear that someone is divorcing (Lord knows how many friends of mine are now since this pandemic started), but, then your head starts to wonder where their head is at.  But, again, as you said, to keep dropping in when things aren't going well and have me be the mechanic to fix it (or whatever the motive was) is just unfair.  At one point, I even said that I thought the way she was speaking to me was unfair given the circumstances, and again, it was like it fell on deaf ears.  It was all about her and what she's going through and never a real "give a damn" about me.

When she mentioned that she's seeing someone else, who is also divorcing and has a kid (not with her) but that they weren't serious and would leave him if I gave a commitment, that's when I said, OK, something is off.  She's obviously in a crisis, not thinking clearly, and either directly or indirectly using me as her lifeline to a "normal" life of what she remembered us as having when we did date.  It's just a lot and I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with that right now.

I remember going through my divorce and everyone said don't jump into anything when the divorce is final -- and of course, I did, and I went from one "marriage" to another immediate long term relationship where, again, she was toxic (Man, I see a pattern... LOL) and when it ended, it was almost worse than the divorce.  There should be a another LoveShack room for people like me, if there isn't one... LOL.

So, when this one reached out, I tried to be a good friend with this one.  As I said, it was nice to hear from her after so long. I remember telling her to take her time, don't be in a rush to date (I even remember her asking me at some point what app she should use to meet people and I said NONE.  Focus on your divorce!).  So then finding out that she was now "dating" in whatever capacity that was was another "slap" because I felt like - why did you even ask me what app to meet people with if you're already dating someone? 

But, at the end of the day, it's draining.  Too draining.  Maybe right person, wrong time, but wrong time goes a long way and if I am not even a factor in how my life would fit in, then I would only see myself getting hurt in the long run.

Appreciate the help and clarification and thanks for the welcome!  

[Calendula]

Seems to me like your instincts are leading you well in this case. But sometimes it can be nice to have external confirmation, from both friends who know you and complete strangers.

From what you say, and even from how you say it, it appears that you've taken the time and effort to learn from your previous relationship experiences, both your divorce and your rebound relationship (and probably others). It seems that you've been able to incorporate those lessons into your life and perspectives and make better choices accordingly (such as deleting her texts, recognizing when something seemed off, knowing when you've reached your coping limits, and asking friends for input and then really listening to it). She may not be at a point yet where she can process or appreciate the kind of advice you have to offer. Unfortunately, it is impossible to help someone who doesn't actually want help, no matter how well-intended your assistance may be. She may not even recognize that there is something inappropriate or hurtful about her behavior. She certainly doesn't seem to be at the same emotional maturity level as you are. Granted, I have only your descriptions of her words and actions to work from, but it seems pretty obvious that you are actively thinking about how what you do makes others feel and she certainly is not. The evidence for this conclusion is the very fact that you currently feel the way you do because of things she's said and done. Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't even seem to try to consider how their words might affect you? 

Whatever potential there once might have been between the two of you, I think you've grown and matured past that point of potential compatibility. Perhaps in some alternate timeline there might have been a chance for you both together had things gone differently back then, but that wasn't how life turned out and that time and opportunity has now passed. She, in turn, seems to have persisted with similar behaviors as when you knew her before, even though such behaviors may well have contributed to her current situation and would sabotage any chance between you both at this point. I think some of the hurt you feel comes from expecting her to have grown and matured as much as you have over the years and then being disappointed when she behaved towards you in the same way (or worse) as before. 

6 hours ago, otj287 said:

it's a shame because I think if things were different, there actually "might" be a future (heck, who knows?)

 

6 hours ago, otj287 said:

It hurts because I wasn't expecting the original reach-out after so long so it brought up a lot of old feelings that I guess never were "closed".

 

6 hours ago, otj287 said:

I went from one "marriage" to another immediate long term relationship where, again, she was toxic (Man, I see a pattern... LOL)

Sometimes the hardest thing about leaving an ex behind is letting go of that idealized sense of unrealized potential, the "what ifs," the "if only..." and the thought that "maybe it could work..." Perhaps this episode of her popping back into your life is an opportunity for you to contemplate the nature of the relationship you had with her (both then and now) and learn a few more lessons that you could apply to your next relationship with someone new. Maybe she was the beginning of the pattern you observe yourself having concerning "toxic women." Maybe revisiting how she might have played a role in that pattern could help you break it even further and better move forward towards more healthy relationships. If you can see this experience as a chance to grow, to learn, and to obtain closure, then you, at least, end up better off because of it. 

[otj287]

Thanks @Calendula.  I haven't mastered the art of quoting nicely like you did, so I'll do the best w/ my copy/paste skills!

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Unfortunately, it is impossible to help someone who doesn't actually want help, no matter how well-intended your assistance may be. She may not even recognize that there is something inappropriate or hurtful about her behavior.

This is 100% true.  And, when we had first met, it was probably the deal breaker.  When we had spoken last, everything was about her son (as it should be), but when there's no talk of how I fit in, I get the impression that I'm a warm body, who represents a good person from her past.

 

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Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't even seem to try to consider how their words might affect you? 

I have often wondered this myself.  I guess this is the "fixer" part of me when I am more concerned about getting them all fixed and then ultimately get hurt, and repeat the cycle.    But, again, I agree with you 100%  ... not a healthy environment for me to be in. 

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Sometimes the hardest thing about leaving an ex behind is letting go of that idealized sense of unrealized potential, the "what ifs," the "if only..." and the thought that "maybe it could work..

You are right.  I don't have a large social circle and this "reach out" threw me for a loop.  I wasn't expecting the feelings (both the good memories, the "hmmmm.. what if's" or ultimately the ultimatum.  That's definitely something for the books as I've never had that happen - let alone over a text message from a still married woman, who's dating someone else and questioning MY intentions. 

In one of her conversations with me she mentioned that she had been to marriage counseling and individual counseling, and hopefully she'll bring up (if she sees fit, or even sees anything wrong with her behavior) what happened.  My mother would say when she was alive that a room full of people could applaud me for a well done speech, but I'd focus on the one person that wasn't clapping.  So, to some degree, I think this is it.  I guess since I don't know what caused the outburst (and, being through a divorce, I totally get the emotional rollercoaster and I didn't have a child to factor in), so I'm chalking it up as one of those moments.

We never know what the future will bring for sure, so this threw me for a loop but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to read it and give me some VERY solid advice and guidance!

 

[Calendula]

You're very welcome. I'm glad I could help. I sometimes think occasionally participating in threads on LS helps me satisfy my own "fixer" tendencies. I find that responding to other people's situations sometimes helps me deal with my own situations by reminding me of things I know but don't typically think about. People aren't always ready or willing to learn from and build on advice or perspectives offered, and sometimes the advice or feedback given isn't even relevant or helpful, but there's a certain comfort in knowing that some stranger out in the world cares enough to at least try to help. I hope you manage to find someone who really appreciates and respects your "giver" tendencies and who can give back to you in turn in a meaningful and lasting way.