Friends very slow to respond to messages, I'm noticing a general trend

[ShyViolet]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm not really complaning, I'm not a victim of anything. I'm simply trying to understand this trend and how to navigate around it.

How to navigate it is: you respect their boundaries, take the hint, and stop trying to force the friendship when the other person doesn't have the same level of interest that you do.  You leave them alone and move on.  I"m not sure what is hard to understand about that.

Friendships come and go all the time.  Just because you were friends with someone two years ago doesn't mean you are guaranteed to still be friends with them today.  Friends fade away all the time.  It's normal.  What's not normal is dwelling on it this much and being unwilling to accept it.  In life you have to be flexible and go with the flow.  You have to accept reality for what it is, and move on from situations that are no longer serving a purpose.  Move on to new things.

[basil67]

EP, she hasn’t done anything to you.   The ebbs and flows of friendship is just part of life.   

[TheEternalPessimist]

7 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Why not refocus your energy on the friends that you do have that are more responsive?

I don't have any right now that are more responsive, that's the thing, otherwise of course I would refocus my energy elsewhere..

7 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

How to navigate it is: you respect their boundaries, take the hint, and stop trying to force the friendship when the other person doesn't have the same level of interest that you do.  You leave them alone and move on.  I"m not sure what is hard to understand about that.

Friendships come and go all the time.  Just because you were friends with someone two years ago doesn't mean you are guaranteed to still be friends with them today.  Friends fade away all the time.  It's normal.  What's not normal is dwelling on it this much and being unwilling to accept it.  In life you have to be flexible and go with the flow.  You have to accept reality for what it is, and move on from situations that are no longer serving a purpose.  Move on to new things.

Well apparently it's just me but I find it to be quite a shock when in the span of just a few months or 1-2 years people go from inviting me to their Christmas party, telling me their deepest secrets to now acting basically as if I never existed, I don't find that to be quite normal, you see and I think it sends the wrong message. That kind of incoherent and sudden change in behavior and care makes me not want to associate with most people anymore because I end up being extremely disappointed later on. If you're going to suddenly fade away later then DON'T invite me to spend Christmas with your family, DON'T confide in me, DON'T go out of my way to be my friend, DON'T tell me about your problems with your boyfriend because it's convenient for you at a certain time, DON'T make promises you know you won't be able to keep. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

[Acacia98]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

The disproportionate number of flaky friends is definitely something I've had to deal with, what's weird is that a lot of them weren't necessarily flaky right away, in fact they became flaky rather suddenly. Now when someone is flaky right away, I just don't even bother anymore. My patience for that kind of BS has long ran out. 

I still fail to see what's so intense about expecting a friend not to take weeks or months to reply to text messages, expect friends to be honest about how they feel and overall expect friends to make the first step once in a while. If I wanted to be intense, I would stalk them or spam them with messages until they reply yet I've never done any of that nor have I thought about doing stuff like that. 

I think there are two things going on here:

1. Your friends' behavior

2. Your reaction to their behavior.

Their behavior may or may not be ideal (if we take it on a case-by-case basis). But you have no control over it.

Your reaction to their behavior is not ideal because it keeps you stuck in resentment mode. But you actually have the capacity to change it so that this stuff isn't weighing on your mind all the time. I'm not sure you want to do that, though. Based on the way you respond to folks here, all you seem to want is a confirmation that there's something wrong with your friends and that they should change their behavior. But I feel like that's pointless. It won't help you at the end of the day.

I think you're intense because the way you respond to this type of situation is not how most people of your age group would respond to it. You are disproportionately upset and you express that emotion time and again. I almost want to use the word "obsessive."

Look, people can be flaky. People can lose interest in friendship. And they may communicate all of this and more in subtle ways, indirect ways. Women often communicate indirectly because they are typically socialized to be non-confrontational. People of certain cultures may also be inclined to communicate that way. You may actually be missing a lot if you can't read (or refuse to read) that subtle communication.

You insist that your friends must communicate overtly and directly with you if they're uncomfortable or whatever. You've actually "confronted" some of these people. You spend a heck of a lot of time talking about them in several threads. And you don't seem to have gained much insight from those threads: you have the same emotional response to these friendships as you did the first time you posted. You're still holding on to the same view. If all of that isn't intense, I don't know what is. 

As for the "weirdness" of your friends, this may actually be a cultural thing. I lived away from my home country for many years, and I have to confess that I found it difficult to read people from certain cultures and understand who actually wanted to be close friends and who didn't. People from one culture would be super-close right at the beginning, invite you to their homes, share all sorts of private stuff with you... And then fade away. Overall, I found it easier to make friends with people from cultures in which people related to each other in a manner I was more familiar with. If that's what's going on in your case, maybe you should make a more active effort to meet people who are socialized similarly to you.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Acacia98

[TheEternalPessimist]

"I think you're intense because the way you respond to this type of situation is not how most people of your age group would respond to it. You are disproportionately upset and you express that emotion time and again. I almost want to use the word "obsessive."

Given just some of the fairly recent memories I've had with these people, I have every right to be "disproportionately upset" (whatever that means) about their sudden change in behavior and their extreme flakiness at times. 10 years ago, I didn't have those issues with friends. They responded quickly, they seemed enthusiastic about hanging out, they didn't leave me hanging for weeks or months without offering any explanations and they didn't suddenly change their behavior out of nowhere after previously going out of their way to be friendly and nice towards me. That was when I was in my mid to late teens and I have no clue what changed in the meantime. Have social media and the pandemic made things worse? The problem is how do you find GOOD friends? They must exist, after a decade or so of wondering what's wrong with me, if I'm enough of a good friend I am able to confidently state that is one of my greatest strengths; therefore other good friends must exist as well.

The main problem in all of this I would say is that the behavior of those people I'm mentioning is completely inconsistent and incoherent with them trying to hint that it's time for us to go our seperate ways and when I call them out on their hypocrisy here, I get told I'm too emotional, too intense, obsessive. There's a bare minimum that a lot of people seem totally incapable of doing and on top of that you have people left and right defending their behavior and attacking those like me who have an issue with that behavior. None of that makes any sense.

[Acacia98]

25 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

"I think you're intense because the way you respond to this type of situation is not how most people of your age group would respond to it. You are disproportionately upset and you express that emotion time and again. I almost want to use the word "obsessive."

Given just some of the fairly recent memories I've had with these people, I have every right to be "disproportionately upset" (whatever that means) about their sudden change in behavior and their extreme flakiness at times. 10 years ago, I didn't have those issues with friends. They responded quickly, they seemed enthusiastic about hanging out, they didn't leave me hanging for weeks or months without offering any explanations and they didn't suddenly change their behavior out of nowhere after previously going out of their way to be friendly and nice towards me. That was when I was in my mid to late teens and I have no clue what changed in the meantime. Have social media and the pandemic made things worse? The problem is how do you find GOOD friends? They must exist, after a decade or so of wondering what's wrong with me, if I'm enough of a good friend I am able to confidently state that is one of my greatest strengths; therefore other good friends must exist as well.

The main problem in all of this I would say is that the behavior of those people I'm mentioning is completely inconsistent and incoherent with them trying to hint that it's time for us to go our seperate ways and when I call them out on their hypocrisy here, I get told I'm too emotional, too intense, obsessive. There's a bare minimum that a lot of people seem totally incapable of doing and on top of that you have people left and right defending their behavior and attacking those like me who have an issue with that behavior. None of that makes any sense.

I don't know if these people you're complaining about now are the same friends you had as teens. If they are, then maybe they changed as they grew up. That's something completely normal, btw.

If they aren't, then why don't you reach out to the people you were friends with as teens and reconnect with them?

If you want to spend the rest of your life being upset about your friends, then go for it. You're already on the right track. If you want to be happier about your social life, you have to be willing to engage in some self-reflection and self-critique and change the way you do things.

We all have to do the latter, even when we're in situations where others hurt us and we are not to blame for their actions. Many of us are basically challenging you to do the same things we have had to do ourselves in order to learn and grow.

You already have enough sincere responses here to work with if you genuinely want things to change. I wish you the best.

[basil67]

For many of us, the time in our mid to late teens involves the same group of friends. This part of your experience is quite normal. Then your friends start college and work and find different groups of friends and often move away from the old friends. 

I notice that you’re still trying to present this as a new phenomenon - did you see my earlier posts about how it’s been no different when I was young...and right back to my grandparents in the late 1930’s.   Its not social media. It’s not new. It’s just how things are 

Edited February 27, 2021 by basil67

[TheEternalPessimist]

It's not necessarily a new phenomenon, it's just something that I feel was less present a mere 10 years ago and that has gotten significantly worse all around in part due to technology. Then again, it could be an age thing as well, I don't know. I don't feel I am any closer to understand it either way.  ^^

[TheEternalPessimist]

8 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I don't know if these people you're complaining about now are the same friends you had as teens. If they are, then maybe they changed as they grew up. That's something completely normal, btw.

If they aren't, then why don't you reach out to the people you were friends with as teens and reconnect with them?

If you want to spend the rest of your life being upset about your friends, then go for it. You're already on the right track. If you want to be happier about your social life, you have to be willing to engage in some self-reflection and self-critique and change the way you do things.

We all have to do the latter, even when we're in situations where others hurt us and we are not to blame for their actions. Many of us are basically challenging you to do the same things we have had to do ourselves in order to learn and grow.

You already have enough sincere responses here to work with if you genuinely want things to change. I wish you the best.

Because there is no point reaching out and reconnecting with them. We haven't talked or seen each other in almost 10 years, they are in North America while I'm in Europe now and I know that even if by some miracle we were to get together one day it will never be the same as it was when we were teens, understandably so to some extent but I don't want to have to endure that awkwardness.

I am willing to engage in self-reflection and self-critique, I have done so more than you can imagine but at the end of the day the problem cannot just or mostly be me as 99% of people here seem to suggest. It's interesting and quite revealing that these friends I talk about seem to get a free pass no matter what they do while I seem to get blamed for being "obsessive" and "controlling" when all I demand is fairly basic and should go without saying. 

[ShyViolet]

5 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Well apparently it's just me but I find it to be quite a shock when in the span of just a few months or 1-2 years people go from inviting me to their Christmas party, telling me their deepest secrets to now acting basically as if I never existed, I don't find that to be quite normal, you see and I think it sends the wrong message. 

Well you're the one who is incorrect.  It is a normal part of life.  You are extremely rigid in your thinking.  There is a disconnect between your expectations of friends, and the way the real world works.  That is the heart of the problem here.  You are going to have a very hard time dealing with life going forward if you can't deal with the natural ebb and flow of friendships,  read other people's cues and react appropriately to them.  

You have started several other threads on this same topic and gone through this same exact conversation over and over and over, and here you are still rehashing it and unwilling to accept the advice that many people are giving you.  You do have a very negative and rigid tone about you which I strongly suspect these friends have picked up on and has alienated them.

[TheEternalPessimist]

36 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Well you're the one who is incorrect.  It is a normal part of life.  You are extremely rigid in your thinking.  There is a disconnect between your expectations of friends, and the way the real world works.  That is the heart of the problem here.  You are going to have a very hard time dealing with life going forward if you can't deal with the natural ebb and flow of friendships,  read other people's cues and react appropriately to them.  

You have started several other threads on this same topic and gone through this same exact conversation over and over and over, and here you are still rehashing it and unwilling to accept the advice that many people are giving you.  You do have a very negative and rigid tone about you which I strongly suspect these friends have picked up on and has alienated them.

The natural ebb and flow of friendships is not to invite someone to your family for Christmas only to later behave as if that person never existed, that's total nonsense and it sends the wrong message. That's just one example among others. Also cues are lame and only make things worse in the long run. Being honest from the get-go helps avoid many problems later down the line, I wouldn't be in the situation I am in right now if those friends had been upfront and honest. Why not be upfront and just say how you truly feel? That's what I did everytime I ended a friendship myself, that's what mature grown-ups do. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by TheEternalPessimist

[basil67]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I seem to get blamed for being "obsessive" and "controlling" when all I demand is fairly basic and should go without saying. 

The terms 'obsessive' and 'controlling' are likely to come up because you demanding something which cannot be demanded.   Sure, we can want or desire to be treated a certain way, but when we demand it, that's when it becomes controlling. 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

I wouldn't really look into the world "demand", there are many meanings to it. It's not like I'm ordering anyone to behave a certain way, I think you know what I meant to say. 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I wouldn't really look into the world "demand", there are many meanings to it. It's not like I'm ordering anyone to behave a certain way, I think you know what I meant to say. 

The word Demand does not have multiple meanings when it comes to interpersonal relationships - see below.   And the way you've expressed yourself with insistence that your belief on how friendships should function as being the only correct way does match in context with the word demand.  So no, I don't know what you mean to say.    Having the belief that your way is the only right way is also something which comes across as controlling.

If you want to be better understood, it's best to use words which more readily describe how you feel.

Merriam Webster: an act of demanding or asking especially with authority

Oxford: a very strong request for something

Dictionary.com to ask for with proper authority; claim as a right

 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Well in my mother tongue, demand means to ask and I understood it in that way. I know you all think I'm controlling and yes my way of seeing it is the correct way because it's the only way that ensures minimal damage for all. Keeping secrets, being sneaky, avoiding confrontation in order to be "polite" only ensures that things will get worse overtime until it all becomes a huge problem and blows up. That has been my experience all my life about people not being upfront and honest, anyway.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Well in my mother tongue, demand means to ask and I understood it in that way. I know you all think I'm controlling and yes my way of seeing it is the correct way because it's the only way that ensures minimal damage for all. Keeping secrets, being sneaky, avoiding confrontation in order to be "polite" only ensures that things will get worse overtime until it all becomes a huge problem and blows up. That has been my experience all my life about people not being upfront and honest, anyway.

Even the word "ask" is about putting firm expectations others.   If I said to my husband "all I ask is for you to hang up your wet towel" I'm making a very clear expectation on his behaviour.   With this issue, the best you can achieve is to 'wish' or 'hope' for.

The problem you're facing is that this stuff us really only blowing up for you and that's because you're getting mad because you're not accepting the common way of doing things.   The rest of us here know how it works and we accept it for what it is.  We don't go asking for explanations because we already know the answer - things have changed, feelings have changed and they've moved on.   Nothing blows up for us because we go with the flow.

Edited February 28, 2021 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

Unless there's a time factor involved, I've never kept track of response times.

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 hours ago, basil67 said:

Even the word "ask" is about putting firm expectations others.   If I said to my husband "all I ask is for you to hang up your wet towel" I'm mak.ing a very clear expectation on his behaviour.   With this issue, the best you can achieve is to 'wish' or 'hope' for.

The problem you're facing is that this stuff us really only blowing up for you and that's because you're getting mad because you're not accepting the common way of doing things.   The rest of us here know how it works and we accept it for what it is.  We don't go asking for explanations because we already know the answer - things have changed, feelings have changed and they've moved on.   Nothing blows up for us because we go with the flow.

It's just a matter of sheer politeness, that's all. I didn't do anything to them to warrant being treated in that way. Being sneaky, dishonest just to avoid having to face a potentially uncomfortable situation is weakness and cowardice. Dishonesty and sneakiness is not the common way of doing things, eventually it tends to blow up in the face of the person doing it, sooner or later.

Edited February 28, 2021 by TheEternalPessimist

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unless there's a time factor involved, I've never kept track of response times.

That's your choice but to me it's impolite to keep people hanging, you're basically delaying having to face a certain situation for your own selfish benefit when you behave like that, in my opinion.

Edited February 28, 2021 by TheEternalPessimist

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's your choice but to me it's impolite to keep people hanging, you're basically delaying having to face a certain situation for your own selfish benefit when you behave like that, in my opinion.

Ok don't stay hanging, just go about your day and your business and other friends etc and when they reply they reply. Certainly you don't want to be a hostage to your phone or other people's use of time, no?

[elaine567]

So you are "hanging" for a month/weeks... till they get back to you or you tell them what they should be doing, maybe?

[ShyViolet]

6 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I know you all think I'm controlling and yes my way of seeing it is the correct way because it's the only way that ensures minimal damage for all. Keeping secrets, being sneaky, avoiding confrontation in order to be "polite" only ensures that things will get worse overtime until it all becomes a huge problem and blows up. 

Ok, so you wanted them to explicitly tell you they weren't interested in being friends instead of doing a "fade away."  The fact is, it doesn't matter if you don't like how these former friends of yours acted.  You don't have to like it.  You have NO control over it.  You can sit around and dwell on it for years and years, and make 50 more threads about it, if that's what you choose to do.  But you need to realize that doing that accomplishes nothing, and changes nothing.  When are you going to decide to let it go already and move on with your life?  You can't force these people to do what you want them to do.

We seem to have been going around in circles on this same conversation, in your multiple threads about it, since last year.  It's sad that you don't seem to have learned a thing or gained any insight into this pattern that keeps happening in your life.  You should go to therapy.  Have you considered that?

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Ok don't stay hanging, just go about your day and your business and other friends etc and when they reply they reply. Certainly you don't want to be a hostage to your phone or other people's use of time, no?

Where did I say I was hostage of my phone or that I was waiting forever for their replies? 

[TheEternalPessimist]

38 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Ok, so you wanted them to explicitly tell you they weren't interested in being friends instead of doing a "fade away."  The fact is, it doesn't matter if you don't like how these former friends of yours acted.  You don't have to like it.  You have NO control over it.  You can sit around and dwell on it for years and years, and make 50 more threads about it, if that's what you choose to do.  But you need to realize that doing that accomplishes nothing, and changes nothing.  When are you going to decide to let it go already and move on with your life?  You can't force these people to do what you want them to do.

We seem to have been going around in circles on this same conversation, in your multiple threads about it, since last year.  It's sad that you don't seem to have learned a thing or gained any insight into this pattern that keeps happening in your life.  You should go to therapy.  Have you considered that?

YES!

You're adorable...

[Minneloa]

Ok, so you believe that you are right about this and everyone else is wrong. Where does that leave you, exactly? You still cannot control how others handle their own lives and decisions. So what is your plan? Seethe with resentment at the uncaring ways of the world? Rage against the machine?