On Calling People Out/Confronting/Holding Accountable

[Wave Rider]

I think I've gotten better at showing empathy and validation when relating to people.  I'm not quite so good at the other side - calling people out when they misbehave, confronting them about their problematic behaviors, and holding them accountable for doing things they said they'd do.  I'm thinking of a few specific situations in my life:

1) Someone at work who repeatedly says they'll do something and then repeatedly doesn't do it

2) Message response flakes: people who say they'll respond by a certain time and then they never respond 

3) Relationship "runners" - people who suddenly disappear just when things start to get close, then give some silly excuse for why they disappeared, then when things get close again they disappear again (Avoidant attachment style) 

I guess I come from a place where I assume that people are never going to change, even though I hope that they will change.  It seems that many people do not want to be held accountable for their actions and they do not want to be called out on their bad behavior, even (and perhaps especially) when they know their behavior is bad.  When you call attention to their bad behavior they will become defensive, deny your observations, downplay the seriousness of their actions, or accuse you of wrongdoing.  They will do everything they can to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.  

What has worked for you in confronting people in your life, particularly with flaky behavior where people say they'll do something and then don't follow through?  Have you found that people are willing to be accountable, or do they become defensive and avoid responsibility for their actions?  

Edited February 24, 2021 by Wave Rider

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, Wave Rider said:

What has worked for you in confronting people in your life, particularly with flaky behavior where people say they'll do something and then don't follow through?  Have you found that people are willing to be accountable, or do they become defensive and avoid responsibility for their actions?  

Every time I have confronted someone about their flaky behavior nothing good came out of it. They are flaky because they don't care enough and confronting them will not make them care. It's a loss cause. I simply drop them if it's relationship related, I avoid them if it's a colleague, and I don't expect anything or ask for nothing if it's a family member.

[Wave Rider]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Every time I have confronted someone about their flaky behavior nothing good came out of it. They are flaky because they don't care enough and confronting them will not make them care. It's a loss cause. I simply drop them if it's relationship related, I avoid them if it's a colleague, and I don't expect anything or ask for nothing if it's a family member.

It still sounds like it's worth doing in these situations because you've learned important information about their character.  If they don't care to follow through on something they said they'd do, then that speaks badly of them, especially if it costs you something or hurt you in some way and they don't care that it did.  Or they didn't have the character to be honest with you about their relationship with you.  At least you'll have positive confirmation that this isn't someone you can count on.  

[littleblackheart]

It's been a mixed bag.

I don't have 'avoidant attachment style' (I have High Functioning Asperger's, which isn't the same thing), and find both avoidant and anxious people to be equally grating with age. I'm more patient and more secure now than I ever was, but I also have a lot more respect for people who own their stuff.

I say what I have to say and let them assess the situation in good conscience, and I don't take anything personally.

A decent person accepts accountability without having to be called out, an honest person will accept being called out on their behaviour. These are the only 2 types of people I have time for nowadays.

[Wave Rider]

10 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

... I also have a lot more respect for people who own their stuff.

I think this is more of what I'd be looking for if I were to confront someone or call them out, however gently or firmly I might do it.  I just want to see the degree to which they are willing to take responsibility for themselves.  If they aren't willing to do that then I'm doing myself a favor by letting them disappear from my life.  

[basil67]

I don't go about "holding people accountable".  I am not perfect and will not chastise others for also being less than perfect.  

@Wave Rider  with the examples you gave:

1. If this person at work reports to you, you give appropriate feedback as their manager.  If they don't work for you, but their actions cause your problems, report it to their manager.  But if they don't work for you and their actions don't really affect you, then it's not your place to hold them accountable.

2. Not answering a message in time is a really low level offence in my view.   This doesn't warrant calling them to account.   However, if you can't accept it, then just stop contacting them - there's no need to make a fuss.

3. If someone in a relationship with you disappears when things are getting close, then let them go and close that door.  Again, no need to call them to account and there's no need to label them as "avoidant".   Also consider that it could equally be that they disappeared because they had issues in the relationship and leaving was the right choice.   And if someone disappears, don't accept them back.

Save the angst for really important stuff.  

 

[Wave Rider]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

1. If this person at work reports to you, you give appropriate feedback as their manager.  If they don't work for you, but their actions cause your problems, report it to their manager.  But if they don't work for you and their actions don't really affect you, then it's not your place to hold them accountable.

So what if the person who doesn't follow through is my boss who can't be disciplined or fired because of their position, and their lack of action does affect my productivity?   

[littleblackheart]

15 minutes ago, Wave Rider said:

  I just want to see the degree to which they are willing to take responsibility for themselves.  If they aren't willing to do that then I'm doing myself a favor by letting them disappear from my life.  

I don't personally see it as a 'test' and have no expectations on someone else's behaviour.

It's not about doing yourself or anyone any favours; it's not an ego trip or a game. You don't have the power to 'let people disappear' out your life. They do it all by themselves. Lack of accountability / responsibility and cowardice are not a badge of honor.

I don't know about attachment styles and such, but ultimately the underlying reasons for detaching are irrelevant when you want to keep them to yourself.

People aren't mind readers. 

You shouldn't have to leave your job because your boss has personal issues they can't address in a professional way. Continue doing your job in peace now you know where things stand. Your productivity might improve with clarity.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by littleblackheart

[basil67]

10 minutes ago, Wave Rider said:

So what if the person who doesn't follow through is my boss who can't be disciplined or fired because of their position, and their lack of action does affect my productivity?   

As your productivity is connected, you can ask for an update.   But calling your boss to account is never going to end well

Edited February 24, 2021 by basil67

[littleblackheart]

7 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Find a new job and leave without burning bridges.   Calling your boss to account is only going to burn bridges.

I've done it a thousand times in my professional career, I've barely burnt any bridges. I actually got tenure out of it.

Calling anyone into account for their crappy behaviour should be a minimum requirement, boss or not boss. Nobody should be above being called out. That actually might be the key to help with productivity.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by littleblackheart

[Wave Rider]

30 minutes ago, basil67 said:

3. If someone in a relationship with you disappears when things are getting close, then let them go and close that door.  Again, no need to call them to account and there's no need to label them as "avoidant".   Also consider that it could equally be that they disappeared because they had issues in the relationship and leaving was the right choice.   And if someone disappears, don't accept them back.

OK, here's an idea from a few relationship therapy schools of thought, namely EFT and Imago.  You can't really hold someone accountable for failing to be emotionally available to you, but you can at least talk about how a specific behavior of theirs made you feel.  I could say something like, "I thought we were having a really great conversation, and then when I didn't hear from you for a few weeks I felt rejected."  Here I'd just be looking for the truth about how this person feels about our relationship, which isn't necessarily told by silence.  If they care about me and our relationship then I think they'll show that, and if they don't, then at least I'll have a definitive answer.  

Workplace relationships are different.  At work you can confront someone about their lack of availability, but in an intimate relationship you can't really do that because emotional availability has to be given unconditionally.  Employees are being paid for their time so you can hold them accountable for that, but personal relationships are different and the accountability is not the same.  

[Wave Rider]

19 minutes ago, littleblackheart said:

I've done it a thousand times in my professional career, I've barely burnt any bridges. I actually got tenure out of it.

Calling anyone into account for their crappy behaviour should be a minimum requirement, boss or not boss.

 

I think there's a way to do it tactfully.  Dale Carnegie can help us here. 

[littleblackheart]

10 minutes ago, Wave Rider said:

I think there's a way to do it tactfully.  Dale Carnegie can help us here. 

I also think there is a way to do it tactfully, in the same way there is a way to detach gracefully and kindly. 

I don't know how Dale Carnegie can help, though. An example would help.

Edited February 24, 2021 by littleblackheart

[basil67]

I'm all for tactful and productive communication.   I guess the term "calling to account" sounds really aggressive to me and I'm misunderstanding the approach you'd use.  

[MsJayne]

I'm all for telling people if they're out of line, but you have to think about it and decide whether it's a big enough deal that it has to be addressed. Yes, 'most' people don't respond positively to criticism, true or not, and most people don't like being being told they're wrong, so with that in mind, depending on the issue, you have to decide before confrontation whether you're prepared to lose a friend, partner, job, whatever.  I'm the only female in a construction company, and believe me, men ignore me and undermine me all the time - they forget to send me their site time sheets, they ignore my request to fill out site order forms, and I tell them that if I had a penis they wouldn't dare ignore me. They laugh it off and I think to myself, "You are an irresponsible buffoon", and life goes on. Sometimes you just have to roll your eyes at the smaller things and save your bullets for the big issues. 

[ShyViolet]

2 hours ago, Wave Rider said:

3) Relationship "runners" - people who suddenly disappear just when things start to get close, then give some silly excuse for why they disappeared, then when things get close again they disappear again (Avoidant attachment style) 

If a person does the above, then you should realize that they are not interested in a relationship with you, and you should do the smart thing and walk away.  Not waste any more of your time on the person.  "Calling them out" or "holding them accountable" just sounds aggressive, controlling and petty.  It sounds like an ego trip on your part.  You have no control over the person.  You "calling them out" will not accomplish anything.  You are overestimating your importance in that person's life.  You are not their teacher who is going to enlighten them on how they should live their life.  They will probably just become defensive and think you are a jerk, and it won't end well.  So don't do this.  It's misguided.  When a situation with a person is not working for you, walk away gracefully.

[poppyfields]

59 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

If a person does the above, then you should realize that they are not interested in a relationship with you, and you should do the smart thing and walk away.  Not waste any more of your time on the person.  "Calling them out" or "holding them accountable" just sounds aggressive, controlling and petty.  It sounds like an ego trip on your part.  You have no control over the person.  You "calling them out" will not accomplish anything.  You are overestimating your importance in that person's life.  You are not their teacher who is going to enlighten them on how they should live their life.  They will probably just become defensive and think you are a jerk, and it won't end well.  So don't do this.  It's misguided.  When a situation with a person is not working for you, walk away gracefully.

I agree with this^^.  However there are certain situations that go beyond someone simply disappearing/ghosting that might warrant saying your piece to that person.  I don't have time to go into what those situations might be, but they do exist.

Not an all out psycho rage or angry tirade, but rather assertively saying your piece, then letting it go, and blocking.  

Not to teach them any sort of lesson or shame them (they won't care) but to make yourself feel better.  I'm all for doing anything that will make yourself feel better, and not giving a crap what they think about it, do it for YOU.

But with respect to what you posted above ShyViolet, I agree with you.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by poppyfields

[littleblackheart]

27 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree with this^^.  However there are certain situations that go beyond someone simply disappearing/ghosting that might warrant saying your piece to that person.  I don't have time to go into what those situations might be, but they do exist.

Not an all out psycho rage or angry tirade, but rather assertively saying your piece, then letting it go, and blocking.  

Not to teach them any sort of lesson or shame them (they won't care) but to make yourself feel better.  I'm all for doing anything that will make yourself feel better, and not giving a crap what they think about it, do it for YOU.

But with respect to what you posted above ShyViolet, I agree with you.

 

 

Absolutely agree with this.

Often time people see aggressivity in assertiveness, because most people don't actually like being held a mirror to their activities, especially those in visible position of power like in the OP, who can't get fired and have nobody but themselves to hold them accountable. They can rewrite the rules as they see fit, as they go along.

 

 

 

 

[basil67]

Assertiveness.  This is one of the words which was absent in the OP's title.   True assertiveness is thoughtfully delivered and will not be seen as aggressive by the average person because it seeks to connect and solve.  It's not about accusations or wanting people to own their actions, it's about solving problems.   Though it is also true that a highly defensive person will get offended over even the most thoughtful delivery.

But compare assertiveness to actions of "confront" or "calling people out" or "holding accountable" (as used in the OP's title) it's all starting to feel more attacking or self righteous in delivery.   

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[d0nnivain]

You are not the accountability police.  It's not your job or your responsibility to tell  other people how to live their lives & they are under no obligation to listen to you when you speak up.  Do not think for one moment you can change most people.  You go around confronting everybody who disappoints you, you will find yourself isolated in no time.

It's fine to be assertive & to tell people close to you that a particular behavior upsets you but you must couch it in terms of how you feel.  The minute you start casting blame they will shut you off.  You can't say, "Stop being flakey"  You have to say "When you promise to call at a certain time but don't my feelings get hurt.  I look forward to talking to you & when it doesn't happen I'm disappointed.  I end up feeling like I don't matter.  What can we do to avoid this in the future?"   The reality is that you need to surround yourself with different people who are reliable. 

 

8 hours ago, Wave Rider said:

So what if the person who doesn't follow through is my boss who can't be disciplined or fired because of their position, and their lack of action does affect my productivity?   

You document the lack of action.  You send emails to the boss about your progress  & where the stall is.  For example:

Dear Boss:

You assigned me the ABC Project on Day 1.  You told me we have to deliver the final product to the client on Day 30.  Under cover of Day 17, I sent you my draft proposal for your review & comment.  It's now Day 25.  I need at least 3 days to finalize things on my end.  When do you expect to have your comments for me?  Another copy of my work is attached for your convenience.  I look forward to your feedback.  If you need anything more for me, kindly advise.

Wave Rider

Then you print & keep a hard copy of that email at your home.  If you ever get called on the carpet, you bring copies of the emails to your defense. 

[Syd8]

I went full on scorched earth on some people recently on stuff I've been holding in for years. And I don't mean several years, I'm talking a lifetime. 

[ShyViolet]

The key concept to understand with regards to this issue is that you cannot change other people.

[lana-banana]

The thing is, it's rarely your role to "hold people accountable". Unless you are someone's boss, spouse, or parent, you have limited control over someone's behavior (even in those cases your control is quite limited, it's just that your opinion and desires hold more weight). If you find someone to be unreliable or disingenuous, your best bet is to limit your interactions with them, rather than keep hoping that they'll change or become more responsible.

You can say things like "hey, you said you would do XYZ and didn't; I feel I can't rely on you for your help". You might get a defensive explanation, or maybe the person has a legitimately good reason why they aren't responsive to you. If you want to have a healthy relationship with someone, professionally or otherwise, more communication is always better. 

As far as flaky acquaintances go, they're just telling you how much they care---which is to say, not much. If someone can't be bothered to actively stay in your life, let them go. It's not worth calling out.

[Prudence V]

On 2/24/2021 at 1:49 AM, Wave Rider said:

So what if the person who doesn't follow through is my boss who can't be disciplined or fired because of their position, and their lack of action does affect my productivity?   

I work in a university, we’re lines of accountability are at best nebulous. Most people are well intentioned, and simply overloaded, so my base assumption, if someone doesn’t get back to me, is always that they haven’t had the time to engage. 99% of the time, that’s turned out to be the case. 
 

That said, in the old days (when we worked on Campus) I’d drop in on them in their office, very apologetic, but explain briefly why it’s urgent, and get some kind of response then and there to be going on with. It’s not ideal, but it’s effective. In Covid days, I’ve taken to the “soft nag” on the email, each time quoting the chain of previous mails, and when necessary resorting to everybody’s second-worst pet peeve, priority: high. I find if you do most of the work for them - set out clearly and concisely what the issue is, what response you need, and then any information they might need to make a response, it works well. They can glance over the mail and respond quickly, and if you need a more considered response or something else (information off them, or action, etc) it’s usually enough to prompt that. Few people want to be the bottleneck, and if they’re aware that they’re holding things up, they’re usually quick to shove it onto someone else’s desk. 

[LuckyM]

If this happens at your job then your boss or employee is either too busy or pronably thinks you or your request is low or no priority unimportant.  Happened to me many times. They need to get some benefit from it. Or they don't care. What's in it for the boss?  Or your friends? Calling back means very little to most people I MO. Like saying. See ya later alligator!  You could try brIngo ng some quality food or snacks for everyone every week and be friendlier and jovial.  Calling people out never helps for me. Makes them angry.  Parents can do this not well