Looking for a job

[Ruby Slippers]

You should have 3 solid references and verify their contact info is correct periodically, especially before you submit those references for an important job/gig/contract. Just a quick email to say hello, verify details, and thank them in advance for providing the reference.

If you don't have good supervisor contacts, you can go with a colleague, either through paid employment or volunteering. As a last resort, go with a good friend who can give a character reference. 

[basil67]

When leaving the name of a referee, it's courtesy to contact them first and ask if it's OK.  So to leave the name of the supervisor from 12 years ago, you'd have to track them down and get their permission.   

Is the reason that there are no referees at your current job because you've been there for a decade?   If so, it's understandable that you're struggling finding a referee.   Have you had any other supervisors during your time there?  If so, you could use their name.   Or if you're in a fairly senior position, you could put a peer who's equally senior as your referee.   (this isn't going to work if you're both in the lower ranks)  

[Ruby Slippers]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Have you had any other supervisors during your time there?  If so, you could use their name.

I would never provide a reference from my current place of employment, unless it was for side work that employer had no problem with. It's a good idea to keep your job search private from a current employer.

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I would never provide a reference from my current place of employment, unless it was for side work that employer had no problem with. It's a good idea to keep your job search private from a current employer.

I was thinking of perhaps a former supervisor who had moved on.   Or a supervisor who had moved to another department and could be trusted implicitly to keep the discussion to themselves.  But you're right that the OP would need to be careful.

[Trail Blazer]

Every time I have changed jobs my references have been contacted.  I always inform my referees of my intention to apply for a new job as a way to give them a head's up that they may receive a phone call.

[Gaeta]

As an employer I often get calls from companies hiring our ex-employees and I myself will call references given by people we are interested in hiring. Not everybody has 3 references. Even among older people, if you've worked all your life at one company then no, you don't have 2-3 references. What you can give is personal references, someone that will vouch on your good character, reliability and honesty. Personally I prefer hiring people with a good formation but not too much experience, that way I can train them to exactly what I need and I won't find in them too much resistance from past jobs. The worse assistant I had was a woman with 30 years experience and tons of references. She fought me on everything and was too stuck in her own ways, I had to let her go after a year. I gave her a good reference. 

[Fletch Lives]

References means friends. 

If they want to contact your previous employers, they can look at your job history.

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

References means friends. 

No it doesn't.  References are professional business acquaintances who can speak to your job performance.   For example one of my references is a manager at another company who I have done business with for years.  We're not friends.  We know very little about each other's personal lives.  

[vjk]

20 hours ago, Gaeta said:

As an employer I often get calls from companies hiring our ex-employees and I myself will call references given by people we are interested in hiring. Not everybody has 3 references. Even among older people, if you've worked all your life at one company then no, you don't have 2-3 references. What you can give is personal references, someone that will vouch on your good character, reliability and honesty. Personally I prefer hiring people with a good formation but not too much experience, that way I can train them to exactly what I need and I won't find in them too much resistance from past jobs. The worse assistant I had was a woman with 30 years experience and tons of references. She fought me on everything and was too stuck in her own ways, I had to let her go after a year. I gave her a good reference. 

I find this post amusing about the usefulness of references.    You gave a good reference to admittedly a bad employee.  And, she had a ton of references before coming to you.

...

Staying at one place too long is a problem. I've been with my current employer for almost 20 years, almost my entire working career.  It's uncommon for people to leave by their own choice. Like finding a good employee, it's very hard to find a decent employer, especially as a software engineer in Cleveland.   Almost all my potential references could tip off my employer I'm planning to leave.

Unlike Gaeta's employee, I'm dying to do something new.  

 

 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, vjk said:

 You gave a good reference to admittedly a bad employee.  And, she had a ton of references before coming to you.

I never said she was a bad employee. She was very productive and accurate in her job but she had a hard time acknowledging my authority as I was younger than her. She would be an asset to any other employers, she did not fit well with me. 

[Eternal Sunshine]

In my experience, references are always called. My jobs would only accept direct supervisors but I found that if I gave a name of a person that worked with me and was senior without explicitly saying that they were my direct supervisor, the new bosses have accepted it.

I also call all references when hiring. It’s a very detailed conversation, at least 20 minutes long with every detail of personality and past performance checked. I live in Australia though so it may be different. Things that are asked for example: give me an example of when this person had a conflict with someone and how they have dealt with it? Give me an example of their reaction to a criticism from you? What is the most negative thing you would say about this person’s performance?

My current problem is that I have changed a few jobs in the last 5 years and have also gotten to the offer and reference check stage at few other places where I didn’t accept the offer. So my references are likely exhausted by this. They have never said anything to me but I don’t want to put them through the questioning again. 

 

[Gaeta]

4 hours ago, Eternal Sunshine said:

It’s a very detailed conversation, at least 20 minutes long with every detail of personality and past performance checked.

I remember getting a call like that. They wanted to hire an ex employee as a 'data entry' employee. I thought the call was overly detailed considering it was a minimum wage position, no probation, no benefits. She also asked me what would be the most negative thing about our ex-employee and I had nothing negative to say, we had always been very happy with her, the interviewer kept insisting as if it can't bet normal that I have nothing negative to say. 

[Wiseman2]

Interesting. Most former employers are loathe to give verbal or especially written negative reviews or references for fear of defamation lawsuits.

Mostly a very blunt plain reference indicates the stuff no one would dare say for example: Joe was hired on abc day. He showed up for work and at the end of the week he collected his paycheck. He performed his duties everyday.  On xyz day he left our company. 

So in other words "read my lips", is the best type of negative reference. Positive reviews require no editing.

[introverted1]

I'm in the US.  HR can't/won't give much info except to confirm dates of employment and title.  What is typically asked for are personal work-related references, eg., co-workers who can speak to your capabilities. These should be people with whom you had a good working relationship and who have agreed to provide a reference for you.  They don't have to still be employed at the job where you met them, but these should be people who worked with you who can answer with reasonable detail questions about your working style and strengths.  It's expected that you can provide 3 such references - unless it is your first job, not having 3 colleagues who can speak to your desirability as a candidate is a bit of a red flag.

I always let me references know ahead of time that they may get a call.  It can also help to let them know what qualities or specific details should be emphasized.

Edited February 28, 2021 by introverted1

[Marc878]

Bigger companies also check your education, professional certifications, etc.

[dramafreezone]

Nothing may have been wrong, they just may have had candidates they liked better.  Had that person not interviewed you may have made the cut.

On 2/16/2021 at 11:28 AM, Wiseman2 said:

They would never tell you why you weren't hired. Besides, who cares? . Just move forward.

I think they would if asked properly.  I'd just thank them for the opportunity and ask what can they do to become a stronger candidate should she want to apply again in the future.  I think it's of vital importance that she knows of any weak areas that she can improve upon.  Or she may decide that this field isn't for her.

I remember applying for a teaching job at my alma mater.  I'd actually been asked to apply by the department head, so was very confident on my chances.  I didn't get the job due to not enough experience, which was evident in the class I taught as part of the interview process.  He then told me later that they wanted me to get more experience, but I learned that I didn't really have a passion for teaching, certainly not enough to do it on my off time.

That said, it may have been nothing and just the circumstance of extremely strong candidates making the cut ahead of her.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Katkats7777]

4 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Nothing may have been wrong, they just may have had candidates they liked better.  Had that person not interviewed you may have made the cut.

I think they would if asked properly.  I'd just thank them for the opportunity and ask what can they do to become a stronger candidate should she want to apply again in the future.  I think it's of vital importance that she knows of any weak areas that she can improve upon.  Or she may decide that this field isn't for her.

I remember applying for a teaching job at my alma mater.  I'd actually been asked to apply by the department head, so was very confident on my chances.  I didn't get the job due to not enough experience, which was evident in the class I taught as part of the interview process.  He then told me later that they wanted me to get more experience, but I learned that I didn't really have a passion for teaching, certainly not enough to do it on my off time.

That said, it may have been nothing and just the circumstance of extremely strong candidates making the cut ahead of her.

Hmm. They were really EAGER to want to set up an interview for me, the role didn't have any education requirements. I believe it was something personal, like they didn't like me or didn't like my appearance, I mean they looked at my resume and saw where I worked and the experience that I had, why bother even talking to me. I knew something was off when the hiring manager told me "GOOD LUCK." Yeah, good luck because I'm not going to hire you and hope you find another job. 

[dramafreezone]

9 minutes ago, Katkats7777 said:

Hmm. They were really EAGER to want to set up an interview for me, the role didn't have any education requirements. I believe it was something personal, like they didn't like me or didn't like my appearance, I mean they looked at my resume and saw where I worked and the experience that I had, why bother even talking to me. I knew something was off when the hiring manager told me "GOOD LUCK." Yeah, good luck because I'm not going to hire you and hope you find another job. 

Maybe it was as simple as they didn't like you but I think it'd still be worth your while to actually ask, because now you're just assumng.  Your assumption could be correct but I'd still ask.

Even still, hiring managers don't hire people that they don't like, because they know their culture and know whether or not your personality would be a fit.  If they didn't like you then it's a valid reason to not hire you.  Maybe you said something in your interview that turned them off.  Maybe a candidate that interviewed before you blew them away and you were dead in the water.  Who knows, I'd still ask.

Edited March 1, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

51 minutes ago, Katkats7777 said:

Hmm. They were really EAGER to want to set up an interview for me, the role didn't have any education requirements. I believe it was something personal, like they didn't like me or didn't like my appearance, I mean they looked at my resume and saw where I worked and the experience that I had, why bother even talking to me. I knew something was off when the hiring manager told me "GOOD LUCK." Yeah, good luck because I'm not going to hire you and hope you find another job. 

You asked about references in another thread.   Did the interviewers ask about references?  

[Katkats7777]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:56 PM, basil67 said:

You asked about references in another thread.   Did the interviewers ask about references?  

NOPE. 

[basil67]

Oh well.   I was hoping there could be an answer to that job question in there.  But apparently not.

[Katkats7777]

I applied for this position through Indeed-its a job board in case some of you never heard of it. Anyway, I got an email about coming in for some "preliminary interview" that lasts 15-20 minutes and its IN-PERSON. What jobs even do in person interviews during a pandemic? The last 2 interviews I've had were virtual. In the email it showed the recruiters name and phone number and the company logo. I thought it was odd because why wouldn't the recruiter just call me to schedule an interview? And I check out the address and saw it on google maps, its a old brick building in downtown and its located at the bottom floor-kind of like a loft style place, not what you would call a big company , its an advertising marketing company. Should I be leery? 

Also, the number that was listed at the bottom of the email, I called earlier to see who or if a company answers the phone and the operator came on and said, "the number that you have called has been disconnected."

Edited March 4, 2021 by Katkats7777

[basil67]

Is the building in question in an area which is subject to lock down laws?   Are other businesses in in the district closed?   If not, I would imagine that either they are of the kind who aren't worried about COVID or will want you to wear a mask.  

If their attitude to COVID doesn't sit well with you, wait for another position.

[Katkats7777]

NOPE, all businesses in the area are open with mask policies/social distancing.  I'm asking if their approach is leery. They want me to come in for in person interview with a number that is disconnected when I called because I was curious to see if its legit. I'm not talking about COVID, I'm talking about if I were to go there to some loft style brick building down in the lower level if they are some thieves /human trafficker's along those lines if you catch my drift...

Edited March 4, 2021 by Katkats7777

[basil67]

Ok, your mention of the pandemic is what made me think you were worried about their COVID approach and you didn't mention the disconnected number. I would say that a lower level office isn't something which is inherently more risky.    Is the street largely business or residential?   Or is it mixed use with business and residential?  Is the street in an area which is respectable?

The disconnected number you have....was it from a website?   Perhaps it wasn't updated.  At any rate, you've got nothing to lose if you were to call the recruiter, let them know that you noticed that the number is disconnected and asking if they've dealt with the client before.

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by basil67