I feel awful

[Snakesalive]

7 hours ago, HappyAgain2014 said:

Reality is the affair was a hot mess that blew up and most OWs feel discarded. 

This is so true-it’s crazy how when we’re in it we don’t see this -it’s only when out of it  and  the feeling of being discarded hits that we start to really look at ourselves and the situation we got into ans bad choices made  acceptance aka closure is part of the process and no easy to find but you’re right it won’t be found in wasting energy ruminating or seeking answers from the OP .  

[pepperbird2]

On 2/24/2021 at 6:07 PM, Hulahoop said:

To be honest I’m surprised she hasn’t and i think that’s partly why I’m angry with myself. She’s kept her dignity and been mature. Whilst I had to run and tell her everything. I hate that he must hate me now. 

If he hates you, he;d have to also hate himself. You didn't drag him into this kicking and screaming.

[pepperbird2]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:45 AM, Hulahoop said:

Hi yes that is it. 
My husband and I were over before the affair. We had decided before the affair to stay together for the kids so it’s not only because of  what happened with AP that I stayed. The plan was to stay together until they are older. 
If AP and I had stayed together then the plan with my husband would have changed. But I don’t see how telling him now would solve anything? He still wouldn’t leave but he would be upset, because of the lies I guess. We haven’t been intimate for over 3 years now. That was through his choice first, then mine and now both of ours.  
I understand that he won’t like it either way and will be hurt as we are still married but it’s not like that. I don’t mind being on my own. I have before. And in a way I would probably be happier. But my husband wants to stay even though it’s like this. So I feel although you call me selfish, and I was for having the affair, right now I (and he) are sacrificing our happiness for the children. If things had worked out with AP then I would obviously have told my husband and we would have sorted arrangements. I don’t see why now I need to put this on him when it’s over and it wouldn’t make any difference to our living situation. That may sound awful and I’ve tried to explain as best I can but my life isn’t as happy a marriage as I would have wanted. As my husband would agree. 

redacted...you answer the question I was asking, lol

Edited March 5, 2021 by pepperbird2

[pepperbird2]

OP,

in my experience, horrible situations can also be times of great personal growth. It sounds to me like you already have your foot on that path, You've begun some introspection and are learning a lot about yourself, painful as it may be. That takes courage, and not everyone can do that.
I know it may not feel at all like it now, but every day you are out of the affair and away from the situation , you'll feel a little bit better. He can't give you "closure", only you can give that to yourself. It likely won't be a firm line in the sand, it will happen gradually, little by little.
You'll get there in your own time.

[anika99]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:20 PM, mark clemson said:

As the one who first mentioned open marriage in this thread I'll note to be fair (to me) that: 

A)  This isn't just any marriage problem, this is a woman who hasn't been intimate in years, is "ONLY staying for the kids," has had an affair, and attempted to blow up another person's marriage in an effort to get them to leave their partner. So, much more a last ditch effort.

B) *I* don't go bandying about this suggestion as a response to just about any marriage problem. I DO suggest it sometimes when there is a LT lack of intimacy. I think most of us recognize that it's not for everyone.

I think open marriages are only successful when the primary couple (husband and wife) have a strong sex life between the 2 of them and lots of honest loving open communication. If the bedroom and marriage are basically dead already then opening the marriage is just a stepping stone to divorce. For sure one of the spouses is going to fall in love with someone else. Women  are prone to fall head over heels in love with the man they are having passionate sex with,  especially if they aren't getting any of their needs met by their spouse. Even the OP of this thread who insists that she has to stay for her kids, suddenly didn't care about the staying for the kids angle when she thought there was a chance that she could leave to be with the OM.  This marriage wouldn't survive being opened so they may as well go straight for divorce instead of involving multiple people in their mess of a marriage. 

[Fletch Lives]

Love is like a boat meant for two. If you put more than two people in it, it sinks.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Fletch Lives

[mark clemson]

29 minutes ago, anika99 said:

 Even the OP of this thread who insists that she has to stay for her kids, suddenly didn't care about the staying for the kids angle when she thought there was a chance that she could leave to be with the OM.  This marriage wouldn't survive being opened so they may as well go straight for divorce instead of involving multiple people in their mess of a marriage. 

I can see that POV. Here's my original mention (and the caveats) for context. These are kind of hail mary suggestions as yes, it sounds like her marriage hasn't been a good one for quite some time.

On 2/25/2021 at 8:11 AM, mark clemson said:

Their are alternatives: attempt to "work on" the marriage so it's better (for both of you). Suggest an open marriage so you don't need to cheat. Frankly neither are too likely to work from what you describe, but they are at least something to consider trying.

 

[NYAG]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:13 AM, MsJayne said:

Yes, I think they often are unaware of what the true motivation is. I will only use one example - a guy I knew who'd had numerous affairs during his marriage told me his reason was that his wife had switched off the sex years earlier and he felt justified. I knew him very well, and I concluded that the real motivation was that he, underneath his affirmations that he still loved his wife but that he had needs, was actually so angry at his wife, so filled with toxic resentment towards her, that his actions were ultimately intended to deeply wound her , (which they did when she eventually found out - a situation which I believe he engineered). I tried to discuss that with him once, and he absolutely would not have it that his behaviour was really about revenge rather than mere sexual gratification, but to me it was glaringly obvious. Of course, there's always the people who are just wired that way, they're narcissistic and have such an insatiable need for attention and admiration that one partner can't possibly fill that need, but I think the number of AP's who are actually punishing their spouse for either real or perceived inadequacies would be quite high, and a lot of them would not realise, or admit, that revenge is their base motivation. 

I once dated a married guy who was like this. He was incredibly bitter and resentful at his wife who he had cheated on multiple, multiple and multiple (!!!) times since before they were married 20 years before (and she'd caught him but took him back when he grovelled to her). It became very unsettling to hear in the end and I walked away. He behaved as if everything was her fault, but the fact was he stayed because he said he couldn't afford the divorce. Some guys. Urgh.

[sandylee1]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:38 AM, mark clemson said:

Technically it is. You are leaving for your own benefit.

I don't think anyone in their right mind (including myself) would blame them for leaving, as it's escaping harm/self-preservation.

I was responding to a claim that it's not always selfish to leave. It is almost always selfish. It is also selfish to put food in one's mouth that someone else could be eating, but we all do it all the time anyhow - AND I'm not blaming anyone for that either (unless it's at some egregious level of depriving others).

My thinking is not dangerous to anyone - you are either not seeing or disregarding the nuances of what I'm saying.  For clarity: I don't think people in an abusive should stay just because it's technically selfish to leave. Being selfish is not the same as being "bad," and that's particularly true when self-preservation is involved. That is a point I already made above.

If a person GENUINELY WANTED to stay themselves, but left because they felt their kids were in danger, THAT would not be selfish.

Technicalities are not a factor in abusive situations. It is NEVER selfish to leave an abusive relationship. Doing something for your own benefit does not constitute selfishness. 

Putting food in your mouth that is yours isn't selfish. You're tying yourself up in knots to justify your statement and I maintain that even bringing the word selfish into an abusive relationship situation and associating it with the victim leaving is dangerous. It's exactly what the perpetrators say to the victims I work with.

 

 

 

 

[SS2855]

A couple things:

1. It’s definitely never ok to stay in an abusive marriage NOR stay in a marriage where you are not loved or valued. In other words, it is not selfish to leave a marriage that is not working.

2. Make no mistake- cheating is awful, however as Esther Perel once said, people cheat on each other in a hundred different ways: indifference, emotional neglect, contempt, lack of respect, years of refusal of intimacy. Cheating doesn't begin to describe the ways that people let each other down. This doesn’t absolve the OP of cheating in the marriage, but often times we only demonize breaking that vow, but not other vows that our partners and us promised each other in the marriage. 

[dramafreezone]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:56 PM, Hulahoop said:

Hello 

About 3 years ago I started a new job and a colleague let it be known to me in various ways that he was attracted to me. I wasn’t attracted to him and we were both married so I didn’t think anymore on it. However one day I fell for him and I told him. A sexual relationship started instantly. We were together 4.5 months and planned to leave our partners and be together but because of the stresses of work and the guilt he had a breakdown and ended it. We stayed very good friends. Spoke all day every day. About everything. He knew I loved him and he said he loved me too but had to stay for his children. I hated it but accepted it. A year later we were still very close emotionally. But I was struggling. He was moving on with his life with his wife, going on holidays and buying a new house. I constantly thought about him, needed to know where he was and panicked when he didn’t reply. I couldn’t cope and I snapped. I messaged his wife anonymously. He broke off contact and basically ghosted me. I was distraught and went too far and messaged her family. and they knew it was me. She asked me for every detail which after he ghosted me I gave her. I showed her texts and told her what he had said to me.  I haven’t heard from them since. They have posted a photo together on social media. I am so upset with myself. For telling her and being that person, for losing him as my best friend, and for still caring when what we did was so awful.  I just want to get over him. I want to know he’s picked her, he’s moved on, but I can’t help but say to myself that he thinks about me (although I know realistically he probably doesn’t). I just feel so low. 

Probably need to be in therapy.  I don't say that with judgment, but there's some deep seeded insecurities that drove all of this behavior and you need to get to the bottom of them to accept them and learn to conduct your interpersonal relationships in a healthy manner.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by dramafreezone

[mark clemson]

On 4/4/2021 at 2:25 AM, sandylee1 said:

Technicalities are not a factor in abusive situations. It is NEVER selfish to leave an abusive relationship. Doing something for your own benefit does not constitute selfishness. 

Putting food in your mouth that is yours isn't selfish. You're tying yourself up in knots to justify your statement and I maintain that even bringing the word selfish into an abusive relationship situation and associating it with the victim leaving is dangerous. It's exactly what the perpetrators say to the victims I work with.

You're entitled to your views. I've made mine clear. I think the "tying up in knots" claim can go either way, since you're claiming that technicalities don't count (why not, exactly?) and ignoring the reality that people leave e.g. abusive relationships for their own benefit (which doesn't make it wrong).

I concede this is addressing an extreme situation that was ancillary to the much more general point about divorcing, made further up in the thread. As I said above, "selfish" isn't always bad and the benefits of leaving will far outweigh any "harm" done by exiting.

[Allupinnit]

People come into relationships with a box full of dreams, hopes and desires that they're just dying to give to someone else to fulfill; meanwhile, those dreams, hopes and desires can often times feel like EXPECTATIONS to our partners.  Very rarely do we seek out relationships in the hopes of fulfilling someone else's box, rather, we hope to find the best partner for our own.  This is where the selfishness begins to take root, we think we're owed something that we're not getting - and that's when people often times begin looking outward and blow up their lives because the answer wasn't found in another person all along.  How often could marriages be resurrected if only we all began looking at ourselves instead of pointing fingers and letting resentment take hold.  Happy couples know that we're not owed a thing from our spouses.  We act out of selfless love for the other.

And let's be honest - people don't divorce  in search of fulfilling ANOTHER person's hopes, dreams, and desires - we're just really looking for someone we think can BETTER fit into our own box since our initial spouse didn't measure up (or so we think).

So yeah you can look at it as "cheating" just being on this spectrum of ways we all let each other down but that's a cop out.  We don't wake up every day feeling like racing to the back of the line for our partner, but that is the one thing that would ensure the way forward in a way that puts things back together rather than blow them all apart.