Should I call my father 1 week after our friction, or what?

[Fleiss]

Hi..I (38 yo single male) am looking for some advice. Sorry in advance if this long. I haven’t talked to my father on the phone , nor seen him (and mother) since last Saturday  forenoon.

Some background, first. My mother (74), who was affected by Alzheimer’s disease almost 5 years ago, lives with my 77 yo father. They live in the same building as my two older married brothers, but separate floors. I live a 40-min walk far from them.

 I spend 1 to 2 days with them - usually during the weekend - doing all the cooking, dishes, handling all the stuff  in the washing machine, cleaning the house, and cleaning mother in the bathroom. When I am not there, father  does the basic cooking (for mother and himself) and washes the dishes. The brothers (and their wives) are away less committed than me to share the chores, and it seems that they and father expect me to do almost everything.  My father, who always just lets things be, has never gotten us together to discuss the best solution for mom.

So, last Saturday, in the morning, I was putting stuff  in the washing machine, and asked  my father to go upstairs and talk to the middle brother about something related to mom. But, being the least cooperative person on Earth when it comes to solving something, he refused. Feeling frustrated, I insisted, raising the voice, as well. He said – as usual – he wished he were dead, and that I disturbed his blood pressure. I retorted adding that I didn’t really care, and that he wasn’t a priority, but mom was.  He went out on the balcony bearing a grudge, and in a few minutes  there comes my middle brother, to whom father complained about me in a childish way. At first, I thought he had been talking to him about the earlier problem!  I felt so betrayed!!

 My middle brother stated that I couldn’t help making waves from time to time. I replied saying that if I have brought up such issues, it was always in our parents’ interest, not mine. And that there was  no point of talking to him and father because they’re the same. We left it at that, and he went away.

I rushed inside and hurriedly took my stuff, and dashed away telling my father it was so wrong of him complaining to the brother and that if it hadn’t been for my mother, I wouldn’t have been so much around him. And that his problem wasn’t his blood pressure, but  his intrigues. (I should add here that while growing up I was never really close to my parents. But with them getting older, I felt like I should help them more, especially when this disease affected mom.)

Father ‘s tendency to be  both a snitcher/intriguer and extremely uncooperative sometimes really pisses me off.  He is someone who never admits to being wrong or making mistakes.

I know I overreacted to the father, but I have been feeling so frustrated about mom’s condition, and the proper care she needs. After this incident, I came to realize that maybe I care a bit too much. And that I should let father manage their situation exactly the way he wants to.

So, 1 week – no visit nor phone call. Until a couple of hours ago I didn’t really regret having behaved like that with him because I thought he deserved it.  Now I feel ashamed of myself. What should I do? Should I call him or wait a couple of weeks more and visit them in person? Thanks.

 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, Fleiss said:

So, 1 week – no visit nor phone call. Until a couple of hours ago I didn’t really regret having behaved like that with him because I thought he deserved it.  Now I feel ashamed of myself. What should I do? Should I call him or wait a couple of weeks more and visit them in person? Thanks.

 

Call him now. He's an elderly person. He's not exactly in his prime physically or mentally. He must be struggling at some level. It cannot be easy watching your wife's condition deteriorating. And who knows? He may have health issues that he and y'all have not noticed because you're all focused on your mom.

Your father is what he is. You can't change him. So it's kind of pointless to have these arguments with him. It was also tremendously unkind for you to tell him those cruel words. 

If it is possible, try to find out if there's someone you can talk to professionally about your mum's condition and getting her the kind of help she needs. Maybe that person can help you figure out how to talk to your father and brothers about this difficult subject. 

[Wiseman2]

Let things cool off. Are you from a collectivist culture where the children take care of the elders? It seems recommending some help for your father especially a personal aide for your mother to bathe etc. is not acceptable?

Your father may have neurocognitive issues as well which can manifest as combativeness. Consider as well the level of dementia caretaker burnout he has. 

Do not get into longstanding sibling rivalries or longstanding resentments when dealing with someone who most likely has some health issues. 

If possible try to get help for your mother and father that involves personal care, meal delivery, a cleaning service and especially visiting nurses.

[Fleiss]

8 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Call him now. He's an elderly person. He's not exactly in his prime physically or mentally. He must be struggling at some level. It cannot be easy watching your wife's condition deteriorating. And who knows? He may have health issues that he and y'all have not noticed because you're all focused on your mom.

Your father is what he is. You can't change him. So it's kind of pointless to have these arguments with him. It was also tremendously unkind for you to tell him those cruel words. 

If it is possible, try to find out if there's someone you can talk to professionally about your mum's condition and getting her the kind of help she needs. Maybe that person can help you figure out how to talk to your father and brothers about this difficult subject. 

Thanks for the feedback. I should stress first that, while I have never gotten physical with my father, the last argument was the worst one I have had with him. My mother's condition and his total lack of cooperation led to that incident, in the first place.  So, he really deserved  "those cruel words"  from me.  I don't regret that.  What I regret is wasting my breath with someone who won't listen to you. And, above all, I regret not leaving right away.  But, again, it was about my mother, and due to her I couldn't help my frustration either.   

On a separate note, I should add that my father isn't staying with mom because he feels close to her, or that he loves her  - he never did. He is just stuck with her. Their marriage was really dysfunctional, and they stayed together out of inertia. They were cold, and even disrespectful  to each other. Father was emotionally unavailable to all of us, except for the middle brother. The latter and the oldest brother play the negligence card with  both of them now.  Still, my siblings and I should be thankful to him for the fact we haven't had to quit our jobs to stay with mom. 

The problem  is that I was always available for my father, even at short notice, in order for him to have a break and  go somewhere he wanted to or meet somebody he liked to. His requests always had my affirmative answer. Whereas, my brothers - especially his favorite middle son -  never offered this to him, nor did my father asked them.  I was around so much because I knew father was depressed, but from now on I will be less and less available for him. 

It's funny how writing all  this took away my desire to call or see him! 

 

[ShyViolet]

Call him if you truly want to.  Or if you feel that you need a break from him for your own mental health, then absolutely, you are entitled to do that.

My father is the same age as yours.  He lives alone, not too far from me.  He has always been a very difficult person and was abusive my entire life.  I do have a relationship with him and I keep in touch with him, but I put up very strong boundaries and sometimes I have to take breaks from him and not speak to him for a while.  Don't let anyone tell you that you are obligated to do anything just because someone is family.  It's your decision what kind of relationship you have with your family members, and how large of boundaries to put up.  But we ALL need boundaries.

Your brothers live in the same building as your parents, for goodness sake.  Your parents are never alone.  If you need to take a break for your own well-being, let THEM help your parents for a while.  It sounds like you have done more than your share.

[Fleiss]

9 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Let things cool off. Are you from a collectivist culture where the children take care of the elders? It seems recommending some help for your father especially a personal aide for your mother to bathe etc. is not acceptable?

Your father may have neurocognitive issues as well which can manifest as combativeness. Consider as well the level of dementia caretaker burnout he has. 

Do not get into longstanding sibling rivalries or longstanding resentments when dealing with someone who most likely has some health issues. 

If possible try to get help for your mother and father that involves personal care, meal delivery, a cleaning service and especially visiting nurses.

Thanks for the considerate input. Yes, I come from such a collectivist culture.  I don't know what kind of medical issues he has but he's always been the worst model to us with his stubborn unwillingness to cooperate, even though this is essential now with mother's condition. And yes, I know he's burned out. But this push him to try and find solutions with his 3 sons, not the opposite!  WTF! (Anyway, I learned a big lesson out of this - I should maintain my distance for the sake of my sanity.)

Yes, I will also start looking for outside paid help, which is not easy to find in the village where they live, due to the people's pride issues. 

 

[Fleiss]

33 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Call him if you truly want to.  Or if you feel that you need a break from him for your own mental health, then absolutely, you are entitled to do that.

My father is the same age as yours.  He lives alone, not too far from me.  He has always been a very difficult person and was abusive my entire life.  I do have a relationship with him and I keep in touch with him, but I put up very strong boundaries and sometimes I have to take breaks from him and not speak to him for a while.  Don't let anyone tell you that you are obligated to do anything just because someone is family.  It's your decision what kind of relationship you have with your family members, and how large of boundaries to put up.  But we ALL need boundaries.

Your brothers live in the same building as your parents, for goodness sake.  Your parents are never alone.  If you need to take a break for your own well-being, let THEM help your parents for a while.  It sounds like you have done more than your share.

Thanks a lot for the thoughtful response. Your words opened my eyes and mind to the huge importance of putting up such boundaries. Maybe it was hard for me to do that before because father can be really manipulative when/if he wants to.  

And I am sorry to hear you were abused by your father.  I wish you a lovely Sunday.

[d0nnivain]

You don't have that much time left with your parents.  Be kinder in your assessments of them.  They are struggling, especially your father. He's depressed & scared.  Don't push his buttons & realize when he pushes yours that it's out of fear. 

Call him & just act like last weekend never happened. Go take care of your mom.  Put food in the 'fridge. Perhaps talk to your brothers about looking in on your parents more.  

[Fleiss]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

You don't have that much time left with your parents.  Be kinder in your assessments of them.  They are struggling, especially your father. He's depressed & scared.  Don't push his buttons & realize when he pushes yours that it's out of fear. 

Call him & just act like last weekend never happened. Go take care of your mom.  Put food in the 'fridge. Perhaps talk to your brothers about looking in on your parents more.  

Thanks for your wise words. I will try to pretend it never happened. And yes, you’re right, we did press each other’s buttons. I feel scared, too, but why won’t  father open up to my brothers and me?  I often find his attitude so baffling..He likes watching TV almost around the clock.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Fleiss

[d0nnivain]

He's not going to open up to you or your brothers because he's your father.  He will never lean on his children.  He could never book that level of weakness in himself.  He's too old school for that.  Don't press. 

I lost my mom to Alzheimer's 10 years ago.  My MIL has it now.  It's hard.  The person affected has no idea what is going on.  It's terrifying for them because the world stopped making sense.   Their SO is heartbroken, helpless & frustrated.  They got a raw deal.  Well meaning children like us push their buttons when even with the best intentions born of love we treat them like children & try to do things out way.   I had to find safe ways to let them make decisions.  So ask do you want to eat chicken or beef?  Not what do you want for dinner.  Ask do you want to wear the blue pants or the black ones, not what do you want to wear today.  Empower them unless it's not safe.  I had a huge fight with my dad when I insisted they get a home health aide to do the things he & I couldn't like bathe mom or assist with her toileting.   My mon outweighed me by about 75 pounds & dad was too frail to help too.  It would have been a disaster to let them live without help.   

[Alpacalia]

It is extremely difficult when adult children are unexpectedly faced with taking care of their parent(s) physically and emotionally, particularly when you have other siblings who choose not to share the workload fairly and under unpleasant circumstances. I don't think it's easy for elderly parents to feel like they're being cared for and managed by their much younger children, either. They have a hard time giving up control over their lives.

Whatever you do, try not to delay coping with your own social, mental or physical needs in the process, because it often results in your decisions and reactions being motivated by feelings of frustration.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Alpaca

[LivingWaterPlease]

21 hours ago, Fleiss said:

 

So, last Saturday, in the morning, I was putting stuff  in the washing machine, and asked  my father to go upstairs and talk to the middle brother about something related to mom. But, being the least cooperative person on Earth when it comes to solving something, he refused. Feeling frustrated, I insisted, raising the voice, as well. He said – as usual – he wished he were dead, and that I disturbed his blood pressure. I retorted adding that I didn’t really care, and that he wasn’t a priority, but mom was.  He went out on the balcony bearing a grudge, and in a few minutes  there comes my middle brother, to whom father complained about me in a childish way. At first, I thought he had been talking to him about the earlier problem!  I felt so betrayed!!

 

 

Whereas you were trying to help in this situation (and good for you in all you're doing for them) to your dad you may have seemed bossy or controlling; taking charge, a role he has always filled in the family, never mind that your view of his relationship with your mom was not good. He stayed and he was the one in charge.

Do all you can to not appear to be trying to be in charge of the way things are done. Frankly, that's irritating to anyone in any situation unless it's a paid boss who is instructing one. Even then a good leader finds ways to be in charge while helping subordinates feel they have power in the situation.

Just go help them, without asking or telling anyone what to do. Instead, ask your dad what he would like from you the day you go help. If you can't fulfill what he wants you to do, tell him you'll put it on the list, or however you want to deal with that issue. But, don't go there and act as if you're the one in charge.

Also, although your married brothers, particularly the middle one, seem not to be doing much yet getting favor from your dad, it's probable that their (the middle one especially) personalities are in some way an emotional respite for your dad. Let it be, because that's a responsibility you don't have to shoulder. Be thankful for your dad's R with him.

One more thing. Reread D0nnivain's posts. Much wisdom there.

 

 

[Fleiss]

15 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

He's not going to open up to you or your brothers because he's your father.  He will never lean on his children.  He could never book that level of weakness in himself.  He's too old school for that.  Don't press. 

I lost my mom to Alzheimer's 10 years ago.  My MIL has it now.  It's hard.  The person affected has no idea what is going on.  It's terrifying for them because the world stopped making sense.   Their SO is heartbroken, helpless & frustrated.  They got a raw deal.  Well meaning children like us push their buttons when even with the best intentions born of love we treat them like children & try to do things out way.   I had to find safe ways to let them make decisions.  So ask do you want to eat chicken or beef?  Not what do you want for dinner.  Ask do you want to wear the blue pants or the black ones, not what do you want to wear today.  Empower them unless it's not safe.  I had a huge fight with my dad when I insisted they get a home health aide to do the things he & I couldn't like bathe mom or assist with her toileting.   My mon outweighed me by about 75 pounds & dad was too frail to help too.  It would have been a disaster to let them live without help.   

I am sorry to hear about your mother. I know by pushing my father’s buttons,  I stirred the pot, but I just wanted to get the father out of his comfort zone, in order to find some resolution for mom. 

Well, it seems then that my brothers were wiser than me in seeking no solution about mom,  since father, as head of family, was not initiating anything in this regard. Despite having had good intentions, l feel like l have wasted my energy in vain :((

[Wiseman2]

21 hours ago, Fleiss said:

My mother (74), who was affected by Alzheimer’s disease almost 5 years ago, lives with my 77 yo father.

Unfortunately it seems like  are having great difficulty accepting their aging and limitations, both mentally and physically. Step way back and reflect. Perhaps do some research on dementia and the difficulties is causes for everyone involved. Find some appropriate respite care for your father. 

[Fleiss]

When l made that request to him to meet with the middle brother, it had no commanding tone. But when he refused, l insisted, and raised the voice, l admit - as stated in the original post. 

The thing is that l don’t know what to do there, really. For example, he keeps criticizing the way l cook, even though l am told l am pretty good at it. So, l say to him: “Ok, you cook then. I will eat what you prepare no problem.” But makes nothing. 

Overall, he shows little to no appreciation of what l do there. On the other hand,  l cannot just stay idle while there, when l notice that other family members have done few  to no chores, and have asked my father to ask them to cooperate, as well.

 However,  in hindsight,  l understand l shouldn’t cared much either. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Fleiss

[d0nnivain]

You haven't wasted your energy in vain.  You showed your whole family how much you love your mother.  Keep advocating for her but be sensitive  to your family's needs as a whole.  They may never be able to verbalize their appreciation.  The criticism is a deflection because your father is upset about his situation.  Try not to take it personally.  Instead of telling your father to cook, ask him what he would like to eat & then make that.  

[Alpacalia]

The persistent lack of respect and cooperation on his part can eventually lead to a burnout, so I think it's good for you to try to find helpful coping mechanisms. You'll have to see which one works best for your situation.

Sometimes efforts fall on deaf ears at which point you have no other choice but to learn how to detach, which is not easy because we love our parents. 

[Fleiss]

42 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately it seems like  are having great difficulty accepting their aging and limitations, both mentally and physically. Step way back and reflect. Perhaps do some research on dementia and the difficulties is causes for everyone involved. Find some appropriate respite care for your father. 

I was always available for him, even at short notice, if he wanted to be somewhere or meet someone. For example,  I have spent my annual leave - entire August- with them in my hometown, with me taking care of everything. 

The problem is that he only expects of me in this regard. Just a quick comparison with my middle brother, who had 10 days off during the first half of February. My father was invited by my brother-in- law, who lives in my hometown. Father loved the idea and asked BIL to ask my middle brother for permission. My sister - and l’m sure, her husband, too - was against this roundabout solution, so father didn’t go there because he wasn’t able to even ask his son for such a favor. WTF!! I am trying to help someone who doesn’t want to help himself, nor try to come up with a proper solution for his wife. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Fleiss

[Fleiss]

16 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You haven't wasted your energy in vain.  You showed your whole family how much you love your mother.  Keep advocating for her but be sensitive  to your family's needs as a whole.  They may never be able to verbalize their appreciation.  The criticism is a deflection because your father is upset about his situation.  Try not to take it personally.  Instead of telling your father to cook, ask him what he would like to eat & then make that.  

His likes things cooked only his way, and in a really old manner. No matter how well l try, he seems to be never satisfied. Ok, l often, say to him: “Please, show some appreciation of my effort, at least.”

[LivingWaterPlease]

From reading your continued postings, it seems to me you are a real go getter type person. This may cause your dad to feel inferior if he's not that type of person, thereby harboring resentment, idk. Keep venting! This is the place to do it. Sounds as if no matter what you do you may not be appreciated! But, I'll bet you are greatly appreciated at other venues such as your work environment! You gave your vacation? The entire month of August? That's exemplary! Good will come back to you in other ways even if your dad seems not to appreciate you.

 

[Fleiss]

13 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

The persistent lack of respect and cooperation on his part can eventually lead to a burnout, so I think it's good for you to try to find helpful coping mechanisms. You'll have to see which one works best for your situation.

Sometimes efforts fall on deaf ears at which point you have no other choice but to learn how to detach, which is not easy because we love our parents. 

You hit the mark with your words!  I feel caught between a rock and a hard place. So, I really need a break from them, or just going there to spend some quality hours with mom, and let the rest manage the rest..

[Fleiss]

9 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

From reading your continued postings, it seems to me you are a real go getter type person. This may cause your dad to feel inferior if he's not that type of person, thereby harboring resentment, idk. Keep venting! This is the place to do it. Sounds as if no matter what you do you may not be appreciated! But, I'll bet you are greatly appreciated at other venues such as your work environment! You gave your vacation? The entire month of August? That's exemplary! Good will come back to you in other ways even if your dad seems not to appreciate you.

 

Yes, my entire month of August for several years! This is the real challenge: To what extent can you manage someone like my father, who keeps being unappreciative or critical, while totally passive to  matters seeking proper solutions? 

(At work, l am doing really well and l feel fulfilled, professionally speaking.)

[Miss Spider]

I think you should apologize to him because you felt you were out of line. Apologize for what you think you did wrong if only to quell your conscience. No one is perfect. Even parents. They have the tendency of irritating us sometimes. But I think you should employ a little bit of empathy in the case of your father. He is elderly and living with your mother who is also elderly with dementia. He says he wants to die. This is a very stressful situation and people don’t act their best when they’re stressed. 

[Fleiss]

19 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

I think you should apologize to him because you felt you were out of line. Apologize for what you think you did wrong if only to quell your conscience. No one is perfect. Even parents. They have the tendency of irritating us sometimes. But I think you should employ a little bit of empathy in the case of your father. He is elderly and living with your mother who is also elderly with dementia. He says he wants to die. This is a very stressful situation and people don’t act their best when they’re stressed. 

I have tried to be close him, and have always been available for him when he needed a break, as l have stated above. The real problem, l think, is that our personalities do not click - maybe never did - no matter how hard l try/tried. He never liked my openness, and solution-oriented nature.

Plus, what l have always disliked about him is his being passive aggressive in badmouthing against you behind your back. 

He would almost always be demanding on my sister and me, us who always cared most for them. And very tolerant of the brothers, who mostly play the ‘negligence card’, as l stated in the original post. So, it seems that the scapegoat is supposed to end up as the caregiver,  what the heck!!

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Fleiss

[Watercolors]

23 minutes ago, Fleiss said:

He would almost always be demanding on my sister and me, us who always cared most for them. And very tolerant of the brothers, who mostly play the ‘negligence card’, as l stated in the original post. So, it seems that the scapegoat is supposed to end up as the caregiver,  what the heck!!

The family scapegoat is the only family member who is truthful and as a result, the easy target for their dysfunctional family members' to shame and blame. You have a good heart and advocate for your mom's well being. Your siblings neglect your parents' welfare because they know you'll be the responsible one to handle everything. But it's wearing you down emotionally.

I don't think that you owe your dad an apology just because he's a senior citizen. 

23 hours ago, Fleiss said:

Father ‘s tendency to be  both a snitcher/intriguer and extremely uncooperative sometimes really pisses me off.  He is someone who never admits to being wrong or making mistakes.

I know I overreacted to the father, but I have been feeling so frustrated about mom’s condition, and the proper care she needs. After this incident, I came to realize that maybe I care a bit too much. And that I should let father manage their situation exactly the way he wants to.

So, 1 week – no visit nor phone call. Until a couple of hours ago I didn’t really regret having behaved like that with him because I thought he deserved it.  Now I feel ashamed of myself. What should I do? Should I call him or wait a couple of weeks more and visit them in person? Thanks.

 

Your father is very passive aggressive -- so it should piss you off. The fact that he never admits when he's wrong, shows him to be a very stubborn, prideful man. 

You didn't overreact to your dad. You were emotionally gaslighted by your dad and your response was one of exasperation. That's totally normal in my view. I don't think you care too much about your mom's wellbeing. I think you want to ensure that your mom is taken care of. If you know that your dad isn't capable, and you know that you can't rely on your siblings, then does your country have nursing homes? I know those are terrible places, but at least there your mom would receive her meals on a regular basis, and she'd have a geriatric nurse to tend to her medical needs. Make yourself the power of attorney for your mom, so that you can handle her medical care and make all of the decisions for her.

Don't feel ashamed of yourself. You can always call your dad up and tell him point blank that his behavior hurt your feelings (that's your right to assert your boundary with him and tell him how his behavior made you feel -- everyone has that right by the way). Then, tell him that you are willing to compromise on certain things but not willing to compromise on others, where your mom's care, is concerned. Your father will try to get you to back down by gaslighting you again, since that is what he sounds like he does with you and your siblings. But recognize that his gaslighting is his way of trying to weasel out of taking care of your mom properly. 

If a nursing home is not an option, then after you become the power of attorney, you can hire an out-patient nurse service to come to your parents' home to do housekeeping, bathing, feeding, and medication when you're not there and your dad will have to accept it, and agree to it. And if he doesn't, he can leave.