Isn't it a Pity? How does one get to the place where you can put your painful feelings aside and recognize how you might be hurting your partner?

[poppyfields]

8 hours ago, Dis said:

I meant it because I finally laid down my sword, and do did he. There was no chance of a retaliatory attack. The war is over. The only thing that remains is the love we started off with but wasn't enough to carry us through. 

Thanks Dis, inspiring words, inspiring actions!  To go from volatility with swords up to cuddling and ending things graciously?  Wow wow WOW. 

Something to feel proud of and look back at with great fondness and respect.  ❤️

Me?  I've never been much of a warrior, with my sword up, only my guard at certain times, and my fears, which I am only now seriously attempting to address! 

See my previous thread for more details, specifically re my relationship with my main caretaker, my mom.  My late mom.

I'm more of a runner than fighter, and I need to resolve that!  

Talking it out with others, objective observers who can be straight (like everyone here) helps so much.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

When we're in the middle of hurt our body and brain experience anxiety, stress, distress. I'd say our brain is in self preservation mode and nothing is left to switch on our empathy for the pain of the other. It's afterward with a bit of distance that we're able to acknowledge the pain we may have caused while dealing with our own pain.  While in a relationship a cooling time may allow both partners to recognize the hurt experienced and inflicted but it takes two emotionally mature person. Love is suppose to be selfless but if your partner is experiencing love from a selfish place that mutual empathy will never happen. 

Another thing is:  it's one thing to recognize your partner's pain but another thing to endure how they express that pain. I don't think if you had been more empathetic toward your ex-bf pain it would have changed how he decided to manage that pain. 

[poppyfields]

2 hours ago, Alpaca said:

I realize the relationship ended quite recently, but have you been successful in recognizing how your actions (or lack thereof) may have hurt your ex-partner?

I know it took me some time and a lot of work because I couldn't see beyond the pain. Though, after enough time passed and we had spoken briefly several years later, I was able to acknowledge certain things that I was unable to prior.

I suppose that's par for the course on the road to self-forgiveness and forgiveness of others?

Bolded, yes or getting there, which is where I'm at now and the premise of this thread.  As the song goes: 

How we break each other's hearts
And cause each other pain
How we take each other's love
Without thinking anymore
Forgetting to give back
Isn't it a pity?

I'm so torn because my typical MO would be to reach out, believing he might be happy to hear from me, that I still care, but I realize now that doing so is actually quite selfish.  I'd be reaching out for ME, because I miss him, because I want to talk to him.

In truth, I think the kindest and most loving thing to do is to leave him be so he can move on and continue healing.  Finding another woman better suited for him, someone with less "hang ups" (for lack of better words).

And continue on my own journey of self-awareness and enlightenment.

Lord, it was so much easier when I just shoved stuff down and didn't deal!  Lol

But I need to stop doing that! Hence where I'm at now, and this thread. 😂

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

When we're in the middle of hurt our body and brain experience anxiety, stress, distress. I'd say our brain is in self preservation mode and nothing is left to switch on our empathy for the pain of the other. It's afterward with a bit of distance that we're able to acknowledge the pain we may have caused while dealing with our own pain.  While in a relationship a cooling time may allow both partners to recognize the hurt experienced and inflicted but it takes two emotionally mature person. Love is suppose to be selfless but if your partner is experiencing love from a selfish place that mutual empathy will never happen. 

Another thing is:  it's one thing to recognize your partner's pain but another thing to endure how they express that pain. I don't think if you had been more empathetic toward your ex-bf pain it would have changed how he decided to manage that pain. 

Very wise words Gaeta, as per usual.  And so true, thank you!  

[elaine567]

Why are you so concerned about his hurt and pain?
I would bet my bottom dollar, he is not overly concerned about your hurt and pain.
He hurt you, you dumped him, you did the right thing as it was never going to work, he would never have made you happy...
Concentrate on YOU, forget about HIM.
Water under the bridge...

[poppyfields]

26 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Why are you so concerned about his hurt and pain?
I would bet my bottom dollar, he is not overly concerned about your hurt and pain.
He hurt you, you dumped him, you did the right thing as it was never going to work, he would never have made you happy...
Concentrate on YOU, forget about HIM.
Water under the bridge...

Thanks but there is a lot more to it.

Things that went down during our relationship, my actions that were hurtful, and I'm exploring that, not for him, but for ME! 

My anxieties, my fears that cause me to behave in certain ways that are hurtful to others - boyfriends, friends, family. 

My ex before him I did the same.  I ended that relationship too, ran away instead of addressing issues, his and mine. 

It's virtually every relationship I've ever had, and I'm at the point where I'd like to determine why, not for them or anyone, but again for ME.

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

52 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Thanks but there is a lot more to it.

Things that went down during our relationship, my actions that were hurtful, and I'm exploring that, not for him, but for ME! 

My anxieties, my fears that cause me to behave in certain ways that are hurtful to others - boyfriends, friends, family. 

My ex before him I did the same.  I ended that relationship too, ran away instead of addressing issues, his and mine. 

It's virtually every relationship I've ever had, and I'm at the point where I'd like to determine why, not for them or anyone, but again for ME.

I don’t see it as you ran away. I actually think you were way more patient and understand than most would be ( maybe because you’re cancer? Haha) If I understand correctly( sorry if I’m mistaken) he was being intentionally mean/ verbally lashing out and you WERE trying to calmly de escalate the situation. I would not take that at all. I would not be calm or nice about it. I would be like” **** out of here with that” and would feel no guilt doing so. I also think there is an error here to think that these cases are always just misunderstandings that can be worked out. 
I have verbally lashed out at boyfriends before just to be mean. ( Nothing too awful or  scarring or anything, but in sure it did hurt) I am not proud of that at all but I was annoyed by them( not deep seated hurt, just annoyed) and I just went off on them bc I was a *****. Completely unacceptable, but guess how many of them deescalated and took the blame? 
 

I think your ex boyfriend has shown some big control issues and is anger very common byproduct of that. When your bf snapped at you for turning the blender on, it stuck with me, because it reminded me when my ex bf would be nice to people I disliked I would get annoyed with him for being what I saw as “too nice”. . (I didn’t want to be in the relationship anyway so the smallest thing would provoke me* not saying this is the case for your ex though, just explaining my behavior) When actually, I had no right to act that  at all and I was so out of line. He should have dumped me right there. But he loved me.

I think he also did not want you to finish law school or was not trying to discourage you from your goals because it’s not what he wanted? You did a normal thing. You left a dysfunctional relationship before you got married to him. 

but I get it. The self-searching and the dumpers guilt and all of that is completely normal. And I agree that it is good to reflect on our own mistakes in relationships. But I guess this is just a reminder that I don’t think you made any big mistake here. Wishing you meant heals on your journey(((pop)))) it will get easier. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Alpacalia]

1 hour ago, poppyfields said:

My ex before him I did the same.  I ended that relationship too, ran away instead of addressing issues, his and mine. 

It's virtually every relationship I've ever had, and I'm at the point where I'd like to determine why, not for them or anyone, but again for ME.

If you left because of mistreatment, you did not flee; instead, you stood up for yourself and walked away from an unhealthy environment. This is something to be proud of, rather than something to feel remorse for.

[Ruby Slippers]

9 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

If you left because of mistreatment, you did not flee; instead, you stood up for yourself and walked away from an unhealthy environment. This is something to be proud of, rather than something to feel remorse for.

I agree. I already know from your previous posts that you and I had a similar relationship dynamic. Even months after I responded to any communication from him, the very first opportunity my ex had to communicate with me, the slightest opening I gave him, and the very first thing he did was try to pin all the blame for everything on me and then insult me. I know it's all his overinflated ego, but I no longer care.

I think you and I are the kind of people who tend to be too nice and take too much responsibility. Men like our exes gravitate toward that and exploit it. 

I hope eventually you'll realize that you did everything you could, and while, yes, every relationship is a two-way street, you need to let go of the guilt and move on. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ruby Slippers

[Miss Spider]

Oops sorry I meant for shutting the windows 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

 

43 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

but I get it. The self-searching and the dumpers guilt and all of that is completely normal. And I agree that it is good to reflect on our own mistakes in relationships. But I guess this is just a reminder that I don’t think you made any big mistake here. Wishing you meant heals on your journey(((pop)))) it will get easier. 

Thanks SS. It's funny (interesting funny) a good friend of mine mentioned dumpers guilt too, and as you were typing about it, I was reading about it on line.   Reddit, Psychology Today, etc.

I've concluded that what I'm feeling is exactly what it is - dumpers guilt!  

Virtually everything I've been reading points to that, and that it's quite 'normal' even when the dumper was mistreated.

However, it does take two, and I was no angel either, so still going to explore all that.  Work on what motivates me to behave in certain ways.  

But putting a name to it and reading about how others experience the same?  And that it's somewhat normal?

Brings me to a whole different place, emotionally.  A better place.  Less guilt driven and more goal driven.

Two words - dumpers guilt.  Wow.

Thank you guys!!  😂

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I agree. I already know from your previous posts that you and I had a similar relationship dynamic. Even months after I responded to any communication from him, the very first opportunity my ex had to communicate with me, the slightest opening I gave him, and the very first thing he did was try to pin all the blame for everything on me and then insult me. I know it's all his overinflated ego, but I no longer care.

I think you and I are the kind of people who tend to be too nice and take too much responsibility. Men like our exes gravitate toward that and exploit it. 

I hope eventually you'll realize that you did everything you could, and while, yes, every relationship is a two-way street, you need to let go of the guilt and move on. 

Thnx Ruby, I'm a Cancer too BTW.  👍

[Miss Spider]

Dumpers guilt is a real thing!!!’ ( and it’s the worse) 

 

It’s why so many dumpers give the relationship another try with the person.., only to break up again and again 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Lotsgoingon]

It's up to the dumped partner to work through their feelings of rejection and recover, if they need it, the love and affection they got from the dumping partner.

That's not a matter of the dumping partner reaching out. In the period after a breakup, the dumped partner is going to interpret any good words as a sign that the dumper wants to reconcile. So yes, it is best to leave the dumped partner alone--to avoid sending mixed signals during this fragile and painful period immediately after a rejection. In truth, the dumping partner doesn't intend to send mixed signals, but the dumped partner can only interpret any contact that way. 

 

 

 

[poppyfields]

23 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Oops sorry I meant for shutting the windows 

No worries, turning on the blender, shutting the windows, it doesnt matter. 

He went totally off on me that morning, somehow he felt "disrespected" for me not having his back, and being more concerned about our rude neighbors' comfort. 

And I ended up apologizing!  Ok, I can laugh about it now but that whole scene was completely f*cked. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[Ruby Slippers]

22 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Thnx Ruby, I'm a Cancer too BTW.  👍

Oh, that's cool! FWIW, we're supposedly the most dynamic and in some ways hard to read sign. We tend to be the most naturally submissive (mother of the zodiac, want to nurture everyone and make sure they're happy), but we're also a cardinal sign (leader), so don't take crap for too long.

My pattern in relationships has been that in the beginning, I'm in romantic mating mode, so I'm very sweet and accommodating, which men absolutely love. But with a background of abuse, upfront I tend to minimize my needs and wants too much in an effort to keep the peace. I try to express them, but it's in a soft, sweet way that often goes unheard. Of course, this isn't sustainable, so eventually the resentment builds up, the pincers come out, and I start snapping.

I really tried in the last relationship to set the stage properly upfront. I told him within a few dates that I'm not exactly easy to be with, because I have high standards and ideals, hold myself and others to a high standard, and can't tolerate much BS. I basically was giving him an out, saying if you want a simple, straightforward woman, I'm not that, so move on.

My dad once laughed and said to a neighbor who was trying to date me: "If you want to be with her, you're gonna have to walk the line."

I've also read that Cancer women are among the most unforgettable for men. It seems to be true. Also, we tend to navigate through life with a crab walk. We rarely take the direct route, but meander and come at things from the side. We're complex, intriguing, and cool 🦀

Edited March 6, 2021 by Ruby Slippers

[Miss Spider]

10 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

No worries, turning on the blender, shutting the windows, it doesnt matter. 

He went totally off on me that morning, somehow he felt "disrespected" for me not having his back, and being more concerned about our rude neighbors' comfort. 

And I ended up apologizing!  Ok, I can laugh about it now but that whole scene was completely f*cked. 

If he has any introspection at all he should be thinking the same thing ‘wow. I acted so ****ed. I deserved that’ & he regrets it. But not everyone has that kind of self awareness. I think many people are incapable of it xD 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Miss Spider]

Xxxxxx

Edited March 6, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

18 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Oh, that's cool! FWIW, we're supposedly we're the most dynamic and in some ways hard to read sign. We tend to be the most naturally submissive (mother of the zodiac, want to nurture everyone and make sure they're happy), but we're also a cardinal sign (leader), so don't take crap for too long.

My pattern in relationships has been that in the beginning, I'm in romantic mating mode, so I'm very sweet and accommodating, which men absolutely love. But with a background of abuse, upfront I tend to minimize my needs and wants too much in an effort to keep the peace. I try to express them, but it's in a soft, sweet way that often goes unheart. Of course, this isn't sustainable, so eventually the resentment builds up, the pincers come out, and I start snapping.

I really tried in the last relationship to set the stage properly upfront. I told him within a few dates that I'm not exactly easy to be with, because I have high standards and ideals, hold myself and others to a high standard, and can't tolerate much BS. I basically was giving him an out, saying if you want a simple, straightforward woman, I'm not that, so move on.

My dad once laughed and said to a neighbor who was trying to date me: "If you want to be with her, you're gonna have to walk the line."

I've also read that Cancer women are among the most unforgettable for men. It seems to be true. Also, we tend to navigate through life with a crab walk. We rarely take the direct route, but meander and come at things from the side. We're complex, intriguing, and cool 🦀

Yeah I've read all that too and agree! 😆

I'm also fiercely protective of those I love, which can be dangerous!  Lol

On the negative, I'm much too sensitive sometimes, towards everything and everyone, not just myself.  

I'm sometimes "too" empathetic and it can have a profound affect on me, not always positive.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Xxxxxx

????  I wish you wouldn't do that!  Lol

[Trail Blazer]

21 hours ago, poppyfields said:

I created a thread a couple of months ago asking isn't it healthy that when your partner hurts you to feel like you want to hurt them back?  Standing up for yourself?  Not taking their or anyone's BS?  

Virtually every poster who responded and everything I have read said no no no rise above your pain, your partner is hurting too, try to understand 'their' pain.  That's 'healthier.'

What?  Why should their feelings have more importance, more significance than your own feelings?  But I don't think that's the right question to be asking either.

I can't really relate to much of what you've said, other than to agree that music can be profound and it does impact people in many ways.

Other than to say that I am really happy for you that you've been able to move on so quickly, I can only really respond to this part of your post.

Anybody who suggested rising above your pain wasn't suggesting you do so because your ex-partner's pain was more important than yours.

Anyone who suggested that you try to understand the pain your ex-partner was going through would have done so only for it to help you reconcile with the reason - not to find an excuse.

I know myself that I can certainly get over a situation better if I understand the reasons for why someone behaved in a certain way.  I'm not looking to excuse them, I am just looking for closure.

Fighting fire with fire, as you so put it, may make you feel better, but it only makes you feel worse in the long run.  There's no winners in a relationship when you're merely combatants.

That's not to say that standing up for oneself isn't important, because it is.  Nobody should allow themselves to be walked on like a doormat.  I just feel that there's more constructive ways to do that, is all...

At the end of the day, reason and diplomacy is the best course of action.  There's very few benefits of waging war.  If it can be helped, walking away from a relationship is much better than the human toll left behind.

 

[lonelyplanetmoon]

Great post btw.

I think that as women we tend to think more deeply or search for deeper meaning in things and this coupled with our emotions, makes us have feelings that at times can contradict themselves because of our insecurities or issues.  Most men don’t seem to have these “mulling” thoughts.  They tend to be more simple in how they experience their emotions.

I am with a wonderful man currently and every week I still have difficulty accepting that it is a good relationship.  Why is that?  Argh I just hate this battle within.

But while I battle with myself, I have moments of clarity.  I think about these and I find my peace again.

The greatest gifts partners can give each other are patience and forgiveness.

Find a partner who is willing to put in the effort to grow a healthy relationship and who shares in giving these gifts, really is all you can ask for in life.

At the end of the day, our personal battles are ours to fight.  



 

[basil67]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:52 AM, poppyfields said:

I created a thread a couple of months ago asking isn't it healthy that when your partner hurts you to feel like you want to hurt them back?  Standing up for yourself?  Not taking their or anyone's BS?  

Virtually every poster who responded and everything I have read said no no no rise above your pain, your partner is hurting too, try to understand 'their' pain.  That's 'healthier.'

I didn't post on that thread, but I wanted to say that I don't necessarily agree with either of these responses.   Hurting someone back simply escalates the situation and causes more hurt. 

But by the same token, if a partner says something hurtful to me, I will not presume what they are feeling - they may not be hurting at all and are simply being obnoxious.  I will tell them they hurt me.   And it's then up to them to make it right.   Sure, if they apologise and share what is going on, I will forgive, listen and support.  But I'm not going to put my feelings aside and play therapist after they unapologetically lobbed a bomb in my direction.

Edited March 7, 2021 by basil67

[poppyfields]

50 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I didn't post on that thread, but I wanted to say that I don't necessarily agree with either of these responses.   Hurting someone back simply escalates the situation and causes more hurt. 

But by the same token, if a partner says something hurtful to me, I will not presume what they are feeling - they may not be hurting at all and are simply being obnoxious.  I will tell them they hurt me.   And it's then up to them to make it right.   Sure, if they apologise and share what is going on, I will forgive, listen and support.  But I'm not going to put my feelings aside and play therapist after they unapologetically lobbed a bomb in my direction.

Thnx basil.  "Hurt them back" was a poor choice of words, I don't ever want to intentionally hurt anyone, let alone my partner, even when they hurt me.  Even though, sadly, I often do. 

I liked what Ruby Slippers posted earlier with respect to her ex, I liked how she handled that.

But in an existing relationship, what you suggested was best, absolutely, no question.

Which logically I know, but when emotions are high, difficult to do sometimes.

Re the bolded, you would not believe the advice circulating out there on the internet advising to essentially do just that.  Earlier I read after our partner lashes out, it's our "moral obligation" to help them "work through their pain." 

I was like WTF, that can't be right. 😳  My partner unceremoniously lashes out at me and it's my moral obligation to help them work through their pain?

I'm gonna stop reading the internet. 

 

 

 

[basil67]

I agree with you @poppyfields    As it is, one of my absolute deal breakers is someone who lashes out to be deliberately hurtful.  That's not to say that a couple won't disagree, but it can be done in a respectful way.    So no, I'm not gonna help them through it, I'm gonna ditch them.  

And FWIW, in our 30 years, my partner and I may have had our disagreements but we've never lashed out with mean words.