How to (must I? stop wishing for a friendship in the future

[d0nnivain]

31 minutes ago, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

Being reduced to such a mess feels shameful (which is really part of the whole toxic trauma complex) and it's hard not to feel bad about having lost your way because of something so "minor" compared to the way you feel. 

It's not shameful.  If you got a huge laceration to another part of your body, maybe your 1st instinct would be to treat it at home with gauze but if it ended up getting infected you would go to the doctor.  If the doctor sent you to the ER for stitches & you caught a severe case of Covid would you feel ashamed that all that occurred over a cut?  Of course not.  Mental health is no different.  Shrug off the stigma & address your wound.  If somebody looks down on you for being pro-active about your health, get them out of your life.  They are toxic. Only the really sick twisted people don't deal with their issues.  You are better & smarter than that. 

[ShyViolet]

It's good that you seem to have the self-awareness and honesty to be able to say that you have an unhealthy obsession with her.  I think you already know the answer.  Your desire to "be friends" with her in the future is really just your brain grasping at straws, searching for some way, any way, to keep her in your life and to stay involved with her.  And it's coming from an unhealthy place.  There are 7 billion other people in the world that you can be friends with.  Of course you don't want to be "just friends" with her, you are harboring deeper feelings for her.  Closure is a gift that you GIVE YOURSELF, it's not something that anyone else can give you.  You need to give yourself the gift of closure by putting an end to this, going no-contact, and moving on.  It's not always easy to move on, of course there will be struggles, but the only way you can move on is to stick to the no-contact.

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

18 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

It's good that you seem to have the self-awareness and honesty to be able to say that you have an unhealthy obsession with her.  I think you already know the answer.  Your desire to "be friends" with her in the future is really just your brain grasping at straws, searching for some way, any way, to keep her in your life and to stay involved with her.  And it's coming from an unhealthy place.  There are 7 billion other people in the world that you can be friends with.  Of course you don't want to be "just friends" with her, you are harboring deeper feelings for her.  Closure is a gift that you GIVE YOURSELF, it's not something that anyone else can give you.  You need to give yourself the gift of closure by putting an end to this, going no-contact, and moving on.  It's not always easy to move on, of course there will be struggles, but the only way you can move on is to stick to the no-contact.

I think I am moving closer to an acceptance of that fact. No contact is working, and after I shot myself in the foot of sending her some gifts some days ago (yeah... don't tell me, I know) I am now recovering from that. Thankfully she did not react to them in any shape or form and I am taking great care to not even look at the social network she is active on. I'm also getting back to actually having some activities in limited fashion so that should help after a bit. There's a certain danger of running into her but so far it hasn't happened and I might even choose my routes more carefully in the near future to minimize the risk. I've come some way since two weeks ago already, just gotta stick it out.

[Lotsgoingon]

6 hours ago, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

The bad news is that the response of your nervous system is the response of your nervous system, and there's not much you can rationally do. When you are facing a hungry tiger, it is literally "too late" for words - your nervous system already feels what it feels.

Well, I don't know you and your nervous system, but trust me when I say I know people with trauma and serious anxiety. There ARE ways to work with the nervous system. Takes work, but there are all kinds of methods, from breathing and biofeedback techniques and CBT. These techniques can help after the fact. Yes, your trigger may be overactive, but you can learn to more quickly calm the panic. 

And then there's medication. Lots of folks benefit from a med that makes the nervous system less reactive and gives their rational mind time to get into gear and start doing the work that would calm the nervous system.

Here's something: really, knowing your nervous system, you want to have a playbook of specific steps, specific directions, for times just like this. You do not want to try to think creatively once you're in full-scale panic. You want written directions stored in multiple places written out, on your computer, as a list for Alexa or Google Assistant and so on. And one of the directions is to start doing the work, even though you don't think it's gonna work. Starting the work to calm yourself will always feel mechanical and fake for a while. But if you keep working, the nervous system engages and you can get your bearings.

Also, for moments like this, a good strategy could be to go to your therapist 2x a week. 

And yes I too have an overactive nervous system. And yes, it's been triggered by breakups. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

I'm having a really weak moment. Like every morning lately, I am/was extremely tempted to reach out to her for help. My brain tells me "she is a kind person who would understand that this is not about her or us, I am just doing very badly and need someone who knows me as intimately as she did for support", but rationally I still know it would not be fair to her and even if she decided to talk to me for help it would only help in the short term but do nothing to help in the long run. But the feeling of dying/living my life in vain/floating in emptiness is unbearable. I am just writing this down here so I don't reach out to her. This is horrid. I have friends I can reach out to sometimes, but none who (so I feel) know me as well as she did. I took Bach flowers and tried to read some self-help lit but it doesn't help in the morning hours at all. The whole day is bad but I can't seem to do anything at all with mornings. I can't get any serious medication in the short term, my appointment with a psychiatrist isn't until mid-April. All I want is for this feeling to ease up so I can get a move on, I managed to go to my studio yesterday and even record something but it's all unstructured and aimless, not at all what I am used to. Mechanical, just like @Lotsgoingon said. I wish the gym was open since I know it has reliably helped me in the past and it would also help me smoke less, which makes me hyperventilate and panic more (I have bad physical symptoms from smoking and really shouldn't).

It doesn't make it better that I believe she has many of the same problems (not identical, of course). So the weak part of my brain keeps telling me that if anyone surely she should be able to empathize. At the same time I envy her for having been able to be so collected and aimful after dumping me, so that same weak part of my brain feeds me the lie that she could help. Again, these are thoughts I refuse to act upon and I am sharing them here for comfort and help.

The only comforting hours right now are the late evening ones when my brain appears to get tired of this constant pain and fear and gives me relaxation, but of course by that time I am was too done in to do anything but lie in bed and read self-help lit. This can even feel somewhat "nice" then (well, it's nice because of the absence of fear and pain) but of course it doesn't constitute a move on so I wake up feeling horrible again.

Edited March 13, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

I really pray she doesn't reach out to me to say thank you for the gifts or ask me how I am doing, thankfully either is extremely unlikely. I am not totally sure I would have the strength and presence of mind in my current state to hide how I am doing from her.

[Lotsgoingon]

If she reaches out, you don't want to hide you're feeling. That's the point. Hiding feel bad only exacerbates feeling bad. You need all your energy to nurture yourself. Look, reaching out to her wouldn't be a crime. And maybe talking to her would help you out. You sound in a bad place right now. So I'll reverse my earlier recommendation and say call her if you must. Just doing that might feel good even if she doesn't respond at all. 

And maybe she can give you some comforting words that ease your pain. I say just don't expect a reconciliation. 

I usually don't recommend this, but look, can you just park yourself in front of the tv for a while? I mean, that's what most folks do when they're hurting after a breakup. You might be under the impression that people immediately let go and move on. No, they don't. They hurt. For weeks. And they sit in front of the tv. They find programs that are soothing, not necessarily the best shows. The tv is good because it distracts you just enough to lessen the pain ... while you let your mind think and wander. And you give yourself a rest. It's a way to "stop trying" and that surrender can give your body and brain a break ... and on its own you will gradually pull up and feel better. You don't want to watch tv for months, but for a good month after a breakup even two, absolutely go for it! I'm talking literally park yourself there. Dig out all your favorite shows. Find chilhdood favorites, find corny stuff that gives you hope or just engages the brain enough in the story lines. 

And why not call your therapist and tell them of the pain you're in? Don't grit this out? We don't win any points for that. We win points for taking care of ourselves.

Hang in there, brother.  There is pain involved in breakups ... so don't assume you're pathological here. There can be LOTS of pain. 

A task for you in the future is to build a friendship network of people you can call in situations like this one and spill. Got any friends, male or female, whose voices you'd like to hear? Call them! Tell it's urgent and important, that you're not doing well. That lessens the burden and you'll feel more supported. But if you don't have this right now, that's fine. Just set a friendship network as a goal. And park yourself in front of the tv. If you can read, pick up a book (lots of folks can't read when they're in pain). 

BTW: It's much better to be sobbing and crying right now rather than suppressing that. A good cry is much more tender to ourselves than just holding in the pain and feeling it all throughout your body. 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

1 hour ago, Lotsgoingon said:

If she reaches out, you don't want to hide you're feeling. That's the point. Hiding feel bad only exacerbates feeling bad. You need all your energy to nurture yourself. Look, reaching out to her wouldn't be a crime. And maybe talking to her would help you out. You sound in a bad place right now. So I'll reverse my earlier recommendation and say call her if you must. Just doing that might feel good even if she doesn't respond at all. 

And maybe she can give you some comforting words that ease your pain. I say just don't expect a reconciliation. 

I usually don't recommend this, but look, can you just park yourself in front of the tv for a while? I mean, that's what most folks do when they're hurting after a breakup. You might be under the impression that people immediately let go and move on. No, they don't. They hurt. For weeks. And they sit in front of the tv. They find programs that are soothing, not necessarily the best shows. The tv is good because it distracts you just enough to lessen the pain ... while you let your mind think and wander. And you give yourself a rest. It's a way to "stop trying" and that surrender can give your body and brain a break ... and on its own you will gradually pull up and feel better. You don't want to watch tv for months, but for a good month after a breakup even two, absolutely go for it! I'm talking literally park yourself there. Dig out all your favorite shows. Find chilhdood favorites, find corny stuff that gives you hope or just engages the brain enough in the story lines. 

And why not call your therapist and tell them of the pain you're in? Don't grit this out? We don't win any points for that. We win points for taking care of ourselves.

Hang in there, brother.  There is pain involved in breakups ... so don't assume you're pathological here. There can be LOTS of pain. 

A task for you in the future is to build a friendship network of people you can call in situations like this one and spill. Got any friends, male or female, whose voices you'd like to hear? Call them! Tell it's urgent and important, that you're not doing well. That lessens the burden and you'll feel more supported. But if you don't have this right now, that's fine. Just set a friendship network as a goal. And park yourself in front of the tv. If you can read, pick up a book (lots of folks can't read when they're in pain). 

BTW: It's much better to be sobbing and crying right now rather than suppressing that. A good cry is much more tender to ourselves than just holding in the pain and feeling it all throughout your body. 

 

Thanks for this. I will still not reach out; my real breakdown came after she told me (some two months after the breakup) that she had found someone new, whereupon I sent her a bunch of messages trying to detail what I thought I had done wrong during the relationship and even sent her a letter. The gifts have been delivered to her just a week ago, although she at least knew they were coming; but after she had told me, only a little over a week ago, that she would appreciate it if I stopped analyzing the past in such detail to her I promised not to reach out any longer until she would feel comfortable doing so. As you can see, then, I can hardly reach out without breaking this promise I gave such a short time ago, she did say I shouldn't feel like I couldn't if it was urgent, but I know that although she is forthcoming and wouldn't simply cut me out she would feel awkward about it. What's more is, I would afterwards certainly feel awkward about it, too. After all, even though I now understand I'm going through something traumatic, the breakup/final realization were the trigger, and there is no way around explaining that somehow. Nobody wants to hear that, and I doubt that realistically the communication would be good.

Besides, I feel that my task is to overcome this and integrate what I'm feeling into my life from now on precisely without latching onto her. It's just that the mornings are so awful, I can't even describe them. It's not sadness, or jealousy, or regret; it's really this insane fear and total helplessness. It's how I know it's the inner child. I managed to go to the space I am currently busy renovating, and do some work; I also discovered that listening to decent audio books appears to help, and I was doing that as I was mindlessly working on laying down the floor. It made me feel tolerable, which is a blessing compared to the mornings. Depression is a million times preferable to that horror.

I did manage to cry (or, rather, sob a few times, since I was out on the street and couldn't really cry freely), not for my ex but rather thinking of my entire life and especially stuff that happened in the first two decades. I think that was what ultimately turned the day around for me a bit. I was sad afterwards, thinking about the ex, that I could finally speak openly about these things with her, yet we aren't in contact, but the day having progressed to the point where I no longer felt the animal-like fear I no longer had the urge to reach out. It's just depressing to think of that fact that in all likelihood I will yo-yo right back to how I was feeling every morning lately tomorrow; I still haven't discovered a routine that would help.

[Lotsgoingon]

Yes, crying allows for sadness. And sadness is an emotion we often try to avoid ... and the result, predictably, is something much worse: depression. 

OK, you filled in more back story and yes, I agree that you don't need to call her. But it sounds like you could use some extra sessions with your therapist. 

Oh and be gentle: people do tear themselves up when they learn the ex is with someone new. Some primitive much gets stirred up .That's normal for everyone and especially difficult if you've got attachment issues and trauma. 

 

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

Thanks for your posts, brother. I'll go and do some more renovation work now, sitting still isn't doing me any good. Then I guess I'll have to brave the morning.

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

So there I was, laying the floor, and I felt an anxiety rise up in me, and then I went out into the hallway and lit a cigarette, and then I started crying.

I didn't want reconciliation, I just wanted my friend and relative whom I had gained and then lost. I felt like I just wanted to sit in a kitchen, drink beer and get drunk, smoke cigarettes, cry and talk about life. I wanted my friend's wisdom, intelligence and care. I looked at my life and felt old and so damn tired, like I couldn't do this anymore right then and now, whatever "this" even was. I think I said it aloud, "I feel old". Life is messed up and I wanted to talk about it and hear what she thought. I didn't understand how life worked but we could try to figure it out together. She always had a novel perspective, I often strongly disagreed but I wanted to hear it.

And then I started crying harder because I suddenly felt that it would never again happen, and I think the realization really hit me in that moment. I think this was the first time in my life: previously, I would do one of two things. Either I would put the past into a box and forget about it as quickly as possible. Or I would get obsessed and try everything in my power to get the person back into my life, denying the truth as hard as possible. I can't quite describe it, but now I felt that my friend was really gone, she didn't in a way exist anymore and never would again, and that was what I was crying about. We won't sit in a kitchen, cry and laugh and talk about life, the person who had somehow become my relative to me was gone. From here till death this situation wouldn't happen. This was really novel and I understood that I was grieving.

Edited March 13, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[Miss Peach]

I'm in a similar situation where I ended something recently with someone and we have a large friend group in common. I've committed for a certain time of no contact hoping time will heal some of tension as our final breakup was messy and it took him some time to realize I was serious about no contact.

 

For me had hoped whoever got to the event first would get it. We RSVP to a lot of the events online so it's easy to see if the other person already committed to going. But he is signing up anyway even if I got to it first so I've been dropping out to keep no contact. It sucks because I've have to go looking for new people and things to do during a covid environment but I think it's best for now. I miss a lot of people in the old friend group but I have also met a few cool new people. I'm hoping at some point we can go to the same events and be civil at the very least but the gatherings are small right now so I'm hesitant to test this. (In my situation he snapped and safety was an issue.) I'm hoping if we get larger groups I could potentially test his reaction when it's easier for me to avoid him, talk to others, have friends who can walk me to my car, can slip out if he's inappropriate, etc. 

 

I'm hoping in time we can at least be civil and not awkward. I've managed that with a few exes. I've only managed to become actual good friends with one post breakup. 

 

I've told a few of the friends I'm trying to stay no contact so I will drop out to anything I find out he's going to but haven't elaborated on that for most people. (Where I like people flake a lot so I didn't want to give off that impression.) I've offered to get together one on one with some of those people. Only 1-2 trusted friends that I trust to keep their mouths shut know more from my end.

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

Ohhh, I feel you. Especially the dropping out to keep no contact part sucks. It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but perhaps just a short note with a suggestion to divide the event on a first come, first serve basis would work? You sound like you two aren't on good terms at the moment though, so probably not.

What do you mean safety was an issue? I'm hoping it doesn't mean a threat of actual violence?

OK, hold on, I just reread your post and this time something else struck me - "have friends who can walk me to my car". If the situation is that bad, perhaps it's time to think of a restraining order? It really sounds like you are fearing for your personal safety.

Edited March 15, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

Gonna post here again because I'm crying and don't want to start a new thread.

I miss her awfully as a person, her artistic sensibility and her life wisdom, and a big part of me wishes our rocky and unhappy relationship would never have happened - we may well have given each other much more as friends. I know well I wouldn't be able to handle her seeing someone else right now, I'm not reaching out but I miss the person so much, I don't know what to do. I tried working today and it didn't help. Truth be told, I could only half-focus on work for a few hours before giving up.

She went from very hot to rather distant, calm and going about her life in quite a short period of time and I don't resent her one bit for it, in fact I would give a lot to have half of that myself but I can't. I don't resent her for seeing someone else, either, it's just that I couldn't handle it. I just want my friend back despite the fact I am wishing for the impossible. I've blocked her on the social network she uses so I wouldn't be tempted to look at her profile. But it doesn't even seem to help, I no longer see her name on my screen or anything but keep wishing we could go for a walk, anything really. I'm confused and lost, and in a bad place, and I wish I could talk to her a little.

Edited March 15, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

So after writing the above, last night I went googling in a search for answers once again. I found a website that looked tacky but whose content on second sight actually seemed quite good to me; for a change, it was some real breakup coaching that didn't try to sell me the idea me and my ex could reconcile. Instead, it urged me to focus on myself and discover myself.

Most of the wisdom on the site I had already read elsewhere or come to realize on my own, but there was a pretty powerful thought there that hadn't really occurred to me before: that to really move on, you need to fall out of love with your ex, as in literally stop loving them.

It struck me that it was true. I knew about acceptance, I knew about learning to love yourself, I knew about changing your life for the better, but unconsciously I was still clinging on to the idea that I could harbor some feelings for her and move on nevertheless. This wouldn't be possible. The only real way of moving on would have to entail no longer having any feelings for her whatsoever, without it I would keep poisoning myself.

In fact, I used to think that post-acceptance attachment was not only possible but desirable! Suddenly, it clicked with me that while it is possible, it would mess up anyone's life. Detachment simply MUST follow for the healing process to complete.

Now, this made me feel good for a time; in fact, I even had the experience of, for the first time, looking forward to doing things with my life without a thought back to her and worrying what she might think or feel! This was a huge relief, I even said aloud to myself, "she was never the right one for me", and I fell asleep soundly; but of course, epiphanies like these don't suddenly change everything overnight. In the night I had nightmares about her being with her new SO and not caring about me again, and since I cannot control my dreams I woke up back in the same depressing place as every morning lately, obsessing and unable to get her out of my head.

Nevertheless, I felt like I had picked up a good enough idea there. Stopping loving my ex might feel like a tragedy to me and my entire mind is resisting it with all it has, but the fact is, she already has done that long ago, so I absolutely need to do that too. I know the day will be tough again, but at least I felt last night for a short time that it was somehow possible to not care.

Edited March 16, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[hello259]

Just wondering why you are not reaching out ‘ telling her all your feelings & getting it out? Don’t you think you’d feel better than keeping it all in? 

21 hours ago, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

Gonna post here again because I'm crying and don't want to start a new thread.

I miss her awfully as a person, her artistic sensibility and her life wisdom, and a big part of me wishes our rocky and unhappy relationship would never have happened - we may well have given each other much more as friends. I know well I wouldn't be able to handle her seeing someone else right now, I'm not reaching out but I miss the person so much, I don't know what to do. I tried working today and it didn't help. Truth be told, I could only half-focus on work for a few hours before giving up.

She went from very hot to rather distant, calm and going about her life in quite a short period of time and I don't resent her one bit for it, in fact I would give a lot to have half of that myself but I can't. I don't resent her for seeing someone else, either, it's just that I couldn't handle it. I just want my friend back despite the fact I am wishing for the impossible. I've blocked her on the social network she uses so I wouldn't be tempted to look at her profile. But it doesn't even seem to help, I no longer see her name on my screen or anything but keep wishing we could go for a walk, anything really. I'm confused and lost, and in a bad place, and I wish I could talk to her a little.

 

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

26 minutes ago, hello259 said:

Just wondering why you are not reaching out ‘ telling her all your feelings & getting it out? Don’t you think you’d feel better than keeping it all in?

Many good reasons:

• It isn't useful. We both at one point expressed the wish of being friends at some point in the future; reiterating that won't add anything to the conversation. We both know we cannot be friends at this point
• Nothing that she would say would possibly make me feel better; it is very likely anything she would say would make me feel worse
• It would reset No Contact for me, undoing all the progress I've made
• It would fuel my obsessive thoughts
• She would not appreciate it, she doesn't want emotional messages from me

Etc. etc.

What I'm working on is getting her out of my head so I can move on with my life; getting in touch would get her back into my head and give me more to ruminate over.

Edited March 16, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[Miss Peach]

On 3/15/2021 at 9:18 AM, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

Ohhh, I feel you. Especially the dropping out to keep no contact part sucks. It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but perhaps just a short note with a suggestion to divide the event on a first come, first serve basis would work? You sound like you two aren't on good terms at the moment though, so probably not.

What do you mean safety was an issue? I'm hoping it doesn't mean a threat of actual violence?

OK, hold on, I just reread your post and this time something else struck me - "have friends who can walk me to my car". If the situation is that bad, perhaps it's time to think of a restraining order? It really sounds like you are fearing for your personal safety.

 

On 3/15/2021 at 9:35 AM, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

Gonna post here again because I'm crying and don't want to start a new thread.

I miss her awfully as a person, her artistic sensibility and her life wisdom, and a big part of me wishes our rocky and unhappy relationship would never have happened - we may well have given each other much more as friends. I know well I wouldn't be able to handle her seeing someone else right now, I'm not reaching out but I miss the person so much, I don't know what to do. I tried working today and it didn't help. Truth be told, I could only half-focus on work for a few hours before giving up.

She went from very hot to rather distant, calm and going about her life in quite a short period of time and I don't resent her one bit for it, in fact I would give a lot to have half of that myself but I can't. I don't resent her for seeing someone else, either, it's just that I couldn't handle it. I just want my friend back despite the fact I am wishing for the impossible. I've blocked her on the social network she uses so I wouldn't be tempted to look at her profile. But it doesn't even seem to help, I no longer see her name on my screen or anything but keep wishing we could go for a walk, anything really. I'm confused and lost, and in a bad place, and I wish I could talk to her a little.

I know this part sucks but you need to get closure yourself without her. What signs could you have missed? How could you have been a better partner? A lot of women want to believe in their relationship 'investment' so it's my guess it's something she told you about or you missed.

 

I have a male friend who asked me to read Gottman's "The Man's Guide to Women". It may be a good read about how to be a good partner. I am finding myself nodding along to a lot of it. I also highly recommend the website baggagereclaim dot co dot uk. She has a lot of great breakup and no contact posts on there. She has a book on the subject too if you want to read more but the website is very helpful on its own.

On 3/15/2021 at 9:18 AM, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

Ohhh, I feel you. Especially the dropping out to keep no contact part sucks. It's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but perhaps just a short note with a suggestion to divide the event on a first come, first serve basis would work? You sound like you two aren't on good terms at the moment though, so probably not.

What do you mean safety was an issue? I'm hoping it doesn't mean a threat of actual violence?

OK, hold on, I just reread your post and this time something else struck me - "have friends who can walk me to my car". If the situation is that bad, perhaps it's time to think of a restraining order? It really sounds like you are fearing for your personal safety.

Thanks! That's exactly what I hoped he would have the common sense or respect to do but I'm not going to break no contact for that. If I couldn't get him to respect me in the relationship I don't see it happening now. In public he likes to keep a 'good, nerdy guy' type of image. At the end he was showing up unannounced, texting 60s times per day, trying to keep me on the phone for hours because he didn't want to hear no, etc. I had to call the police on the showing up part. He definitely had some hidden controlling tendencies but I wouldn't have pictured scary or violent until whatever happened with him snapped one week when I went NC. With the way he was running all over my boundaries at the end and finally getting him to mostly leave me alone I'm not opening up the can of worms to go to a few outings. The police suggested a RO but if he leaves me alone I don't want to open up the can of worms by going through the court process, etc. He's the type to be quite bitter at his exes (yeah, I know I missed that warning sign). My closer friends know more and I'm trying to see/communicate with them outside the friend group but it's tough when you've been around these people for years and can't hang out with them in the same way as before.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Miss Peach

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

51 minutes ago, Miss Peach said:

I know this part sucks but you need to get closure yourself without her. What signs could you have missed? How could you have been a better partner? A lot of women want to believe in their relationship 'investment' so it's my guess it's something she told you about or you missed.

I have a male friend who asked me to read Gottman's "The Man's Guide to Women". It may be a good read about how to be a good partner. I am finding myself nodding along to a lot of it. I also highly recommend the website baggagereclaim dot co dot uk. She has a lot of great breakup and no contact posts on there. She has a book on the subject too if you want to read more but the website is very helpful on its own.

Thank you. I will check both out; I have also been using other resources, such as the rather excellent "Getting Past Your Breakup" by Susan Elliott, Pete Walker's "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" and the fairly tacky website I mentioned in a different post in this thread. You know, I think I have slowly been coming to a balanced view of what led to failure of the relationship. I surely could have done better in many respects, and many things still haunt me with shame (and I have ruminated over them and analyzed them at length). On the other hand, I have been coming to recognize that she, too, was often very difficult; ultimately we were two troubled people with major issues which made us incompatible in a unique way. I have also come to realize that simply deciding to do better in the future on the fronts I think I have failed at isn't enough, and I really need to address some core issues. The net takeaway from this breakup, I feel, will be very positive.

Quote

If I couldn't get him to respect me in the relationship I don't see it happening now. 

Now, this is sound reasoning, I feel. If things were that broken to begin with, then my previous suggestion is of course moot.

Quote

He's the type to be quite bitter at his exes (yeah, I know I missed that warning sign).

Ha! Now, I don't believe myself to be the type to be bitter at my exes in general, but I did have one story... oh, boy. That obsession went on for so long and created so much damage in the process that I shudder to just think of it. Incidentally I am sure it has contributed to the failure of my last relationship, too, because it damaged me so much and made me put up so many defenses that it ended up making an already complicated thing even worse.

What I'm trying to say is, I understand perfectly how the obsessive ex' mind works, because I've been there. Unfortunately, sometimes even prolonged total NC doesn't quite work, at least if he is not willing to put in the disengagement work. My ex (again, we are not talking about the latest one I spoke of above) cut contact with me repeatedly; but for months she wouldn't fully leave my head one way or another, I would still feel bitter and resentful, despite this attempt a friendship eventually, which would invariably fail and make me despair more and become more resentful simultaneously... it was a hellish rollercoaster that went on for years. (I never went so far as showing up unannounced, though, or become threatening - but I did send my share of bitter letters, messages, was needy, passive aggressive, you name it).

So yeah, stay in NC at all cost! You are in fact doing both of you a favor. Unfortunately the rest is up to him. You are in a very tricky situation with the common friend group; me and my obsession target also had one, but it ended with me being more or less pushed out of contact with them since they weren't super close friends of mine. Which is a blessing in retrospect, as common friends can be a factor to keep the obsessor attached to their target.

Ultimately, if he does manage to leave you alone, great. But it sounds like there have been some pretty red flags already. When an obsessor has the tendency to turn to violent or otherwise threatening behavior upon being faced with final rejection you need to absolutely be on your guard.

I keep recommending this book on here, but you might find Susan Forward's "Obsessive Love" illuminating.

Edited March 16, 2021 by StoryOfMyLifeYes

[UpgradeU_]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:49 PM, StoryOfMyLifeYes said:

You know what, I'll write a response to myself (which doesn't mean I don't want your responses and experiences!) to set my head straight a bit.

Dude, you're in an obsessive loop. If you weren't you wouldn't be asking yourself this question at all. Do you ask about anyone else if you can be friends? Do you find yourself pondering whether acquaintances you find to be nice people can be close friends with you? No, it either happens or it doesn't. Yet here you are, going over the same question over and over again about this person, bargaining with yourself, being like "but we're grown up people! but we were only together for a short period of time!"

For starters, now is not the time to be asking that question because no matter what the future holds you cannot be friends now. The only reason you even wrote this thread is you secretly want someone to come and tell you "sure, you can be friends, why not" so you have something to hold onto. You need to let go and focus on your own self.

Secondly, she isn't asking herself that same question. As long as you are sitting there wishing for a friendship and trying to figure this out while she isn't (and she won't be), there's no basis for one because there is no eye level.

Thirdly, what kind of friendship do you want? I know what you want to say, you want you to support each other through rough times and celebrate each other's victories, confide into each other, you're imagining you two being special to each other in some way. You don't want a friendship mate, what you're imagining is a relationship without intimacy. Of course you are, because you're not over her, which brings me back to the point: it is pointless to ask the question now. Once it won't be pointless any longer (if ever) you will probably no longer care as much as you do now.

Why are you asking yourself this instead of cleaning up your room or doing the laundry, instead of doing anything at all? Because you feel like your well-being depends on the two of you being friends or not. But your life doesn't depend in this way on any other given friend. Again, you are not spending your time pondering this question hour after hour and day after day about anyone else. Stop kidding yourself. This is a trick you're trying to play on your mind so you can keep occupying yourself with her and all things her.

Wow, this is good. I needed to see this.

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

It's one step forward, two steps back at the moment. One day I will be determined to focus on myself and move forward with my life; the next morning, more realizations regarding our interactions in the relationship come and I need a lot of willpower not to reach out and talk about them, reminding myself she doesn't want to, that she moved past me, etc. After having gone over my life in much detail in the past weeks I now have cycled back to looking at many of our problematic interactions and understanding that often, when I would feel attacked, my ex was - perhaps not always in the best way possible - expressing her needs in one way or another. The wish to somehow "get on the same page" and "understand each other better" is strong and I need to pull everything together not to try to do that somehow. While more recently it seemed to me like I was coming to some sort of understanding that these realizations are for me to apply in the future, that understanding is all but gone this morning and once again it seems like all I want is to go for a walk with her and talk about how different things look now and how much more I understand. Virtually one step forward, two steps back...

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

So I know I just  keep posting in here, but I'm kind of trying to mark different stages of where I am.

I keep reading the book on CPTSD that I started about a week or two ago. It is teaching me a lot about myself, and, equally importantly, it is giving me pointers on how to overcome certain things in time. I am adopting them slowly. I have come to understood that a lot of... inner dispositions, shall we say, that I had previously thought to be my "convictions" were really mostly just a result of traumatic reaction. And it all really came together in the relationship; I was basically constantly in some kind of traumatic response.

By now, not just the Big Events but also the smaller, seemingly insignificant ones, such as a dispute about an insignificant topic I had all but forgotten, are coming to my mind. Suddenly, I seem them in a new light: what I thought was me presenting my point of view was really not my true point of view at all. Not that I lied, no; I simply have no particular opinion on the topic, but in that moment it felt like I did.

All of this is, of course, in the context of rethinking my life and... re-telling it to myself on a much grander scale than just the relationship itself.

Which is where I come to the point which I need support with/input for. I still can't get rid of the idea of being in touch with the ex and confiding into her everything that I am now rethinking. Not in the hopes of reconciliation, more I guess in pursuit of some kind of mutual understanding. Rationally, I know that is a mad idea, but I can't help feeling like this. I feel like for a lot of the time in the relationship, I was on auto-pilot, and thus we never truly understood each other; at the same time, I feel like we would have the capacity to, and simply can't seem to get rid of the idea.

I try really hard to, but the thought just keeps creeping back in almost without me noticing. In a sense, I suppose this is natural. Of course I trust her to understand what is going on inside me, the re-thinking of values and re-evaluating of patterns; she knows me well, so she would know what I would be talking about; and furthermore, since she somehow has been the catalyst for this entire process, I turn to her in my thoughts and almost bounce ideas off of her mental image of mine! This, obviously, doesn't work, since the mental image stays silent.

But I do know this is not a good reason to reach out. Just wish I could stop having the idea!

[StoryOfMyLifeYes]

After much deliberation and soul-searching, and talking to a friend who asked me what it was I wish I could hear, it's roughly (between the lines, of course, not verbatim):

"Damn, I may not love you anymore but I know you. And what you say all makes sense. It's quite a process you've been through. And now I understand you better... It makes sense. I believe in you."

This. I wish I could feel, from a person who for all intents and purposes knows today's me best, that she believes in me. (Or not, if she doesn't!)