Money, money and unemployment

[bananatree]

Long story and anyway my husband now live as roommates in an open marriage.  I don't think this is a bad thing, but it is a state of limbo that is a little bit frustrating.

I'm 42 and he's 61.  Big age gap.  We've been married for 18 years, two teenagers together.

When we married, he was a CEO of a non-profit making somewhere in the ballpark of $300K a year.  We didn't live like gazillionaires, but we did have a nice, comfy life.  House in the city.  Ski cabin.  Two cars.  Private schools for the kids. 

I was a SAHM for a few years when the babies were little, but then became a public school teacher making $50K.  I loved working with kids and the money from my job was going to be for "extras." For any of you teachers out there, you know how all-encompassing this job is, and HARD! Long commute, long hours on your feet, lesson planning in the morning and grading at night. It's alot, but also great.  

About a year into my teaching career, my husband told me a major grant he applied to fund his non-profit was going to be late and would affect payroll, so he wouldn't get a paycheck for a few months.  OK, nbd. We'll manage.

That was 6 years ago and he never really got paid again.  His non-profit company died.  And he was unemployed.  Totally.

He's been trying to revive it and has been awarded a few grants.  $4k here.  Another $3K many months later.  But nothing sustainable and nothing we could count on.  Throughout all of this, he's been dangling a carrot in front of my face, "I'm about to turn a corner." He shows me grant awards and says he'll get paid "next week." But next week never comes.  Or he'll get a small check and then nothing for 6 months, a year. 

Mind you, we built a life dependent on his $300k salary.  Mortgage.  Car payments.  School tuitions.  We were able to fund our daughter's school through money we socked away in her 529 plan.  Our son goes to public school. We now have one car. Over the past few years, our financial lives have been in chaos.  Almost got the house foreclosed.  Got the car repossessed several times (got it back).  Phones shut off, etc.  We are drowning in debt and have only survived by siphoning money from my retirement, which I don't want to do. 

And I'm effing pissed about it!  It would be one thing if he were like, "let's downsize and move in with your mother." That would be fine with me. But he's always like "I'm getting paid next week!"  And sometimes he does, and I start thinking we'll get our life back, so we don't need to make major decisions like sell the house. But then nothing, no more income.

Currently, he said he would get paid last Friday so we could manage some bills.  But it's already Wednesday, and I'm like, what a fool I am to believe him.  He's lying. He's not getting paid, and maybe won't for months.  Or ever. 

I need to get control of my life.  I need to make decisions that he refuses to make with me (like sell the house, move in with my mother, live on my sole, tiny income.)  I don't need a lot of money.  I don't care about fancy things.  I care about peace though.  I care about ending this chaos. But he's living in denial and keeping me in a state of denial.

I feel like I can only move forward if I leave him and become sole head of household for myself and my kids. If I file for divorce, I can force-sell the house. I can move in with my mom and create my own budget and live within my means.  But, he's destitute at this moment.  He's totally dependent on me and has been for years.  It would be one thing if he would just admit that he's "retired" now and we need to make choices to allow for that.  But he won't admit that. He's always "turning a corner." 

How many more lies about paychecks should I allow?  All my friends and family say I'm enabling him.  He's not supporting his family.  He could find something to bring in some income (even like drive for Uber or something) , but he's so obsessed with rebuilding his non-profit that he won't consider anything else.  I'm at the end of my rope.

Edited to add:  I found a higher paying job and now make $95K. But it's in the city where my mother lives. I took that job with the understanding that I was going to make that choice. Distance work has made it OK for now, but my office is set to reopen in the summer and I'll either have to make the choice to sell the house and move or find a new job which is not easy

Edited March 10, 2021 by bananatree

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, bananatree said:

How many more lies about paychecks should I allow? 

After six years of this, I would be ready to file for divorce. 
You need to ensure that you and your children have some kind of financial security. By your admission, he will bankrupt you and ruin your credit if you allow it - if he hasn’t already done that.
If he can’t be part of the solution, I would file and begin the work to get my finances back in order...
“And by “be a part of the solution” I don’t mean another empty promise...you’ve had so many of those, his words are meaningless at this point. He needs to be prepared to get a job or sell the house and if he is not, I would do it alone. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by BaileyB

[d0nnivain]

You are right you have to get a hold of this financial boondoggle.  I'm sure his ego is in tatters but now is the time for him to put on his big boy pants & help you solve this mess. 

This is not a good economy for a non-profit but it's a great time to sell a large home. 

Good luck.  

[Ruby Slippers]

In your place, I'd insist upon marriage and financial counseling as a condition of staying married. Dave Ramsey has a great program called Financial Peace University that you can do online or through a church or other community organization.

If he won't agree to this, I'd initiate divorce. You don't want to end up destitute in old age because of him, so you need to either get on the same page and clean up the mess, or divide your lives and get yourself back in good shape.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Ruby Slippers

[notbroken]

Have you told him he needs to get a job or you are thinking of leaving?   Isn't that the fair thing or are you past that point?

 

[bananatree]

17 minutes ago, notbroken said:

Have you told him he needs to get a job or you are thinking of leaving?   Isn't that the fair thing or are you past that point?

 

I told him I was leaving early last year. But I haven't left. He's a great person, but it's this issue and many others.  He always says he's "trying."  I get that.  I do see that he's trying.  But it's not working.  Nothing is working.  It's a high gaslight situation where he tells me, "next week," but there is no next week.  And we are all drowning.  My kids are suffering.  We are all suffering. It's awful.  He is not the kind of person to just get a job.  He won't. And anyway, no one would hire him.  He's a big-picture kind of ideas guy, and in the past, this has worked for him.  But not anymore. I hate judging him for this because I do know that he's trying. I really do feel so much compassion for what he's experiencing.  

He has no family to fall back on either.  So, if I leave him, I'm leaving him to the wolves. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by bananatree

[notbroken]

That's sad.  I do feel for the guy, but he needs to face reality - especially with the pandemic.   He is not likely to get back to a big charity role any time soon.   Desperate people do desperate things.  He needs to get a job asap.   Period.  Tell him that.  It is 'do it or lose it time'.    Give him a reasonable time period (6 months?) and then act accordingly if things don't change. 

[Ruby Slippers]

2 hours ago, bananatree said:

So, if I leave him, I'm leaving him to the wolves. 

You can address this in counseling.

It's completely beyond me to understand how a grown man with children can be so irresponsible and out of touch with reality around finances. I've managed to support myself 100% since age 17, working full time and beyond the entire time. I certainly wouldn't let that slip if I had children depending on me. In that case, I'd work 80+ hours a week in a service job if I had to. Doing even that over the course of an adult working lifetime would make it possible to retire with at least a $1 million nest egg - provided one were frugal and responsible with finances.

My philosophy is that absolutely no one but myself is responsible for my financial security. It'll be nice if I get the Social Security that I've paid in for - but I'm currently saving and investing so I can be fully self-sufficient and financially comfortable in retirement by around age 60. I've worked very hard, scrimped, saved, and sacrificed to make this happen. I wouldn't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone who'd come up short due to their own laziness or wastefulness.

[bananatree]

43 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

You can address this in counseling.

It's completely beyond me to understand how a grown man with children can be so irresponsible and out of touch with reality around finances. I've managed to support myself 100% since age 17, working full time and beyond the entire time. I certainly wouldn't let that slip if I had children depending on me. In that case, I'd work 80+ hours a week in a service job if I had to. Doing even that over the course of an adult working lifetime would make it possible to retire with at least a $1 million nest egg - provided one were frugal and responsible with finances.

My philosophy is that absolutely no one but myself is responsible for my financial security. It'll be nice if I get the Social Security that I've paid in for - but I'm currently saving and investing so I can be fully self-sufficient and financially comfortable in retirement by around age 60. I've worked very hard, scrimped, saved, and sacrificed to make this happen. I wouldn't have a whole lot of sympathy for anyone who'd come up short due to their own laziness or wastefulness.

Yeah.  I agree with this.  I felt like it was OK to give him a little leeway to regain footing and try to rebuild.  But 6 years is now beyond my breaking point. We simply can't afford it. Sure, I'd love it if I were supported 100% to follow my dreams of being a rock star, but it's not responsible. I get up and go to work every day, carry the health insurance, pay whatever bills I can from my salary.  I'm tired.

[Ruby Slippers]

Some of the most depressing posts I read on this forum are from people like you pulling along a spouse/partner who's dead weight financially. It's a really strong warning to never get involved with anyone who's not financially strong, stable, and responsible. I never will - I'd be much happier single forever! I hope you can find the right solution.

[d0nnivain]

3 hours ago, bananatree said:

  It's a high gaslight situation where he tells me, "next week," but there is no next week. 

To me, gaslighting is intentionally trying to make somebody else believe something you know is not true.  It's a mean-spirited manipulation.  

Here, I think your DH is desperately trying to believe that he will turn a corner & return to his gravy days.  It's heartbreaking.  But love & compassion don't pay the bills.  

Edited March 10, 2021 by d0nnivain

[bananatree]

6 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

To me, gaslighting is intentionally trying to make somebody else believe something you know is not true.  It's a mean-spirited manipulation.  

Here, I think your DH is desperately trying to believe that he will turn a corner & return to his gravy days.  It's heartbreaking.  But love & compassion don't pay the bills.  

You're right.  I don't think it's intentionally mean-spirited.  But it's so dishonest.  I wish he would ground himself in reality and say, "honestly, I don't know when the next check will come in.  I'm trying to do the best I can with this, and in the mean-time we need to figure out our finances." But we are stuck making no decision because he keeps insisting it's "next week." But how does next week turn into years? And at what point do I give up?

[basil67]

I wonder what the net financial result will be when you've divorced, sold all your assets and split the proceeds.  Perhaps there will be money left for him to live on until he gets himself sorted out.   

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet?

Edited March 10, 2021 by basil67

[Ruby Slippers]

16 minutes ago, bananatree said:

And at what point do I give up?

You need to make radical, meaningful change NOW. The real leverage in retirement money growing is TIME.

Neither of you has been financially smart up to now. Like a lot of people with high incomes, you lived beyond your means and didn't plan well for the future. Not giving you a hard time about this, just trying to give you a wakeup call.

The sad fact is that if you'd both been frugal 10-15 years ago, you would have saved and invested a lot more than you did and you wouldn't be in this mess. Back in his high-earning days, you could have easily invested $150,000 a year over 3 years. $450,000 invested in a decent mutual fund and just sitting there earning 12% annual interest on average would have grown to $2.7 million in just 15 years. With that, you could have already retired and be living off an ample six-figure retirement income for the rest of your lives.

You have a good income now, and you're relatively young, so it's not too late for you. He's in worse shape, given his age. I'm just a little older than you and on track to retire very comfortably by age 60. But I'm in that position because I'm very frugal, living in a house much more modest than I can currently afford, driving an older but reliable Honda with a few dings, saving and investing at least 15% of my income every single month, NOT splashing out on clothes, trips, and other non-essentials like most of my friends are. It's very likely I'm going to be in much better shape financially than some of them in the future - because I'm sacrificing short-term pleasure for long-term security and stability. 

If you want to retire with dignity and not be a burden on your children, you need to get radical, aggressive, and determined NOW.

[Lotsgoingon]

Omg, terrible story ... Guy got stuck.

Get to a divorce attorney. Many give free consultations. You're right: you have to take your life back. What he is doing is like a form of sickness.

Consult with a divorce attorney and start moving forward. Even if money came in at this point, you won't trust him, he has damaged your trust with six years of lying and six years of disconnect from reality.

So sorry of hear of this: absolutely a nightmare. 

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

I wonder what the net financial result will be when you've divorced, sold all your assets and split the proceeds.  Perhaps there will be money left for him to live on until he gets himself sorted out.   

Hopefully it will be the wake up call he needs...

[elaine567]

He's 61, who is going to give him a job?
No-one.
He is too old and vastly overqualified. It is the trap many find themselves in.
His only hope was to make his own job, which he did quite successfully until it proved impossible. 
Now he is flung back on a job's market that doesn't want him.
He spent his 40s and 50's not building a nest egg for retirement but instead spent the cash on lifestyle, kids and fripperies.
This is often the problem with older fathers, their earnings are on a downward curve and kids are so very expensive.
Your husband did his bit, more than his bit actually, but life happens and as the younger and fitter member of the partnership it is now up to you to try and get you all through it.
 

Edited March 11, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed reference to deleted content

[d0nnivain]

I don't know that 'I'd run to a divorce attorney but I would call a realtor.  You have to get the ball rolling & drag him along at the very least.  On some level tale the pressure off him because he's clearly crumbling under the weight.  

[Caauug]

14 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

You need to make radical, meaningful change NOW. The real leverage in retirement money growing is TIME.

@Ruby Slippers, I love your train of thought....

It's not for everyone, I hate to say.... Yes, you are correct TIME one of the keys to a secure financial plan. Time can be offset by risk if one finds themselves short on time. Risk can be minimalized with knowledge. As you know time and knowledge leads to a secure financial plan. Mutual Funds are not me.... Not everyone is the same. I'm more share trading long to medium, I have been short term but never shorted. 12% is good, but my goal is double that. A hard lesson was only trade in what you know (knowledge), this minimizes risk. 

I wish this stuff was a subject in school (but who would teach it?)..... Not everyone knows how a credit card works or a mortgage... Balance a checkbook? Who uses checks any more??? The pros and cons of using cash, when not to use your CC??? Even the use of points, like flybuy…. (You may have another name for about the same....) 

I remember a few years ago I went into my local bank, I think it was to get a new card.... The new teller, nice young fella decided to teach me to do it on line, we went to the public kiosk, I logged in and I saw shock on his face as he looked at my accounts..... He didn't have a clue what he was looking at, he only looked at the bottom line, my monetary value at that time. He didn't know what my mortgage debt level was, he didn't know what a share trading account was and how it would effect my net worth from day to day... I'm thinking he should be promoting this as it contributes to bank profits, but he was trying to learn from me, a customer.... I should of offered a few hours of educational empowerment for a block of beer (30 can box)….

I believe it is in most government's best interests to keep the maximum amount of the population in debt. I don't know why, control??? There are many ways to manage or un-manage your money, to bury your head in the sand and say that was my partner's job is pure irresponsibility.... Everyone owes themselves a future, start paying yourself that debt and manage your own future.

Thanks for your point of view.

[Wiseman2]

20 hours ago, bananatree said:

I feel like I can only move forward if I leave him and become sole head of household for myself and my kids.

Talk to your accountant and financial advisors. You both need some serious financial and legal advice. Not a power struggle. Stop arguing about your way/his way, who's right/who's wrong, etc. You're both wasting a lot of time on that.

You Do Not need his consent or agreement to contact an accountant, attorney, etc. to figure out this mess and all the missteps so far (paying off phones by borrowing from retirement plans!?) some very serious mistakes with some serious tax and financial consequences.

Stop suggesting living with your mother. That in itself is a nightmare, not to mention not a solution to the overall problem of money mismanagement.

[d0nnivain]

@bananatree  Accept the role reversal for what it is -- it's time for you to step up & take control because he continues to live in fantasy land.  Use his own methods against him & tell him that as soon as that gravy train comes back to the station you will of course resume your old lifestyle but for now you are making changes: 

1.  See the house 

2.  move in with mom

3.  renegotiate tuition

4. smaller cell phone plans

etc.  

You said this humbling experience made him nicer & more engaged with the kids.  Those are blessings.  Maybe moving in with your mom will give him the impetus to change careers or find that elusive grant that gets you back on top.   See the move as a motivator.  

[Ruby Slippers]

8 hours ago, Caauug said:

Start new, you are still young enough to find someone to supply you with the life you are entitled to.

I was with you up till this point. No one is entitled to anything. I think the last thing she should do at this point is try to find another guy to rely on financially. It's high time to take charge of her own life and financial future.

[bananatree]

Just now, Ruby Slippers said:

I was with you up till this point. No one is entitled to anything. I think the last thing she should do at this point is try to find another guy to rely on financially. It's high time to take charge of her own life and financial future.

I think that comment was meant to be sarcastic.  There is no way in hell I'd ever get remarried, much less become dependent on someone.

[Ruby Slippers]

The fact is that at this point, you could carry the entire family into a decent or even comfortable retirement yourself. It's a shame the two of you didn't save and invest more, but that's on both of you. By refusing to get any kind of job and contribute any kind of income, he's essentially made his own decision to take early retirement.

Now, you have to take charge of the situation. The only two workable options are that you align on your financial plan, or split and you take charge of your own. If you downgrade your lifestyle, pay off all debt, get frugal and minimize spending, save and invest aggressively, you can clean up this mess.

But you definitely need some kind of marriage and/or financial counseling. If you can't get on the same page as a couple, it's never going to work and you'll just keep spinning your wheels. 

[bananatree]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Talk to your accountant and financial advisors. You both need some serious financial and legal advice. Not a power struggle. Stop arguing about your way/his way, who's right/who's wrong, etc. You're both wasting a lot of time on that.

You Do Not need his consent or agreement to contact an accountant, attorney, etc. to figure out this mess and all the missteps so far (paying off phones by borrowing from retirement plans!?) some very serious mistakes with some serious tax and financial consequences.

Stop suggesting living with your mother. That in itself is a nightmare, not to mention not a solution to the overall problem of money mismanagement.

The thing with my mom is another story. She is 80 and has reached the point where she can't live alone anymore.  She is having a difficult time driving and needs assistance with everyday tasks.  I currently live 6 hours away from her.  She was going to move in with us and did for a short time, but she was so unhappy leaving her friends and her regular activities. She was so overwhelmed with all the unfamiliarity in my city, found it difficult to even get herself to the store or have any independence. 

On the other hand, in her city I have all my childhood and college friends, my job, and a vast support network. I would LOVE to move back there permanently and I believe multi-generational households are mutually beneficial for a lot of reasons. 

The only person who would hate it is my daughter who really wants to finish high school at her school with her friends.  This is a big consideration.  Also my husband's "job" is here and he won't give that up. My son is super happy to move.

It's all such a tangled mess.