Feeling terrible

[gcp]

When we were breaking up my now ex unloaded a laundry list of things about me and our relationship that I had no idea was going on.  It felt as if her view and my view of what was going on were completely different.  She told me I am negative, I talked to her in a condescending tone, I made her feel stupid when I would try to teach things (mostly my hobbies that she showed interest in), she felt I didn’t respect her because I have a career and she is currently in school (nursing program).  I wasn’t affectionate enough (we had discussed that and I was making an honest effort, she requires a lot of affection).

After it all I felt like a monster, I couldn’t  understand 1) why she didn’t communicate any of her feelings about this with me long ago and 2) why she would even want to be with me at all in the first place.  
 

Like every couple we had our conflicts but I didn’t see it nearly as bad as she did.  It was very hard to hear I made her so miserable and was so oblivious to it.  I am a pretty open person and would much rather talk about things before they turn into a fight and she never mentioned any of this.  I told her I felt sorry I had caused her to feel that way, but I honestly don’t think she is stupid, she’s incredibly intelligent, I do respect her and I honestly tried to be the best man I could be for her and our future.

I am struggling with my self esteem, she ripped me a new one and now I’m afraid I’m a monster and I just don’t realize it.  I honestly feel like I’m a narcissist and that is terrifying.  

Edited March 15, 2021 by gcp

[Alamo657]

I can relate to what you went trough.

I too got fed a stream of criticisms that came out of nowhere, that weren't on the table ever before, and came as a surprise, not really about the fact that they existed in some fashion, but that it bothered her.

Fact is, as long as they have a feeling of love for you, they'll put your faults under the rug and deal with it, because the good outweighs the bad.

But then, when events in their lives occur that make them change their feelings for you (a dispute, meeting someone else, falling ill and refocusing their priorities...), all those little faults that they found cute or non-bothering, suddenly become a dealbreaker.

But the fact is, it's not about who you were, because they were ok with you at some point. It's just that THEY changed, and this change made them unable to deal with you any longer.

Indeed, it hurts the ego a lot, and the self esteem is shattered . I can't say I'm in a good enough spot to give you any kind of advice, but I wanted to share my perspective with you.

[gcp]

She has some pretty bad insecurity issues, and I thought I was being supportive and positive.  She took it as me giving her tough love, how I just can’t understand.  She would lash out and say intentionally hurtful things to me, I never did that to her, yet I was the negative one?  
 

She also assumed or told me my emotions and feelings, which also bothered me.  She would tell me I think she’s stupid or tell me I didn’t like doing things with her family or friends.  Neither of which were true, I didn’t think she was stupid and I enjoyed meeting her family or friends.  I also feel like I wasn’t acting like a Debbie downer to make her feel this way. 
It was literally like she made me out to be this negative monster and then told me she thought I should know for the next girl so I don’t repeat it.  Very off putting stuff.  

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by gcp

[d0nnivain]

Just because she said this stuff to you in anger in the midst of a break up doesn't make any of it true.  Stop letting her characterize you as a monster.   Really unpack what she said, if you think any of it is valid, be more mindful of those aspects of yourself so as to not repeat those mistakes but otherwise assume she was just spewing hate in an effort to hurt you during the break up.   As you logically pointed out, if you had truly been that bad, why did she stick around?  

[gcp]

Yea, I did.  During our last talk I was honest with her and myself.  I took responsibility for things I felt were valid, but whenever I stood my ground and told her I did not feel that way or do that, she would say I always do this when the conversation isn’t going my way.  Like me saying for a fact what she perceived I was thinking or feeling was not what I was actually thinking or feeling was me manipulating the conversation to get the momentum back on my side.  
 

It felt she wanted me to address all of my faults and she didn’t want to address any of hers.  I finally just agreed to disagree because I didn’t want her to accuse me of gaslighting or something.

[d0nnivain]

Sounds like she may have been gaslighting you a bit.  It's ridiculous that she would say her perceptions about what you were thinking are more valid than what you were actually thinking.  If you were willing to consider what she said but she never accepted any fault who is the real "monster" here?  

[gcp]

I just chalked it up to her maturity, stress with school etc.  but I actually ended it this time.  She admitted to giving up the last few months and just hoping it would get better when she was done with school.  I told her that that isn’t fair to me and I was upset she didn’t communicate any of that to me during these last few months.  I’m not blind, I can see and feel something is off.  It was a week after we broke up she wanted to talk and seek closure.  Then all this came out, and I’m worse for wear.  Lesson learned, no need to talk once things are done.

[scooby-philly]

@gcp

Hey - I feel SO much similarity to your story man. I hope you're doing better today and that you hang in there. I was in a relationship for two years with an age gap where I had a career while my ex was still in university - funny enough - also a nursing program! d0nnivain makes lots of great points. First and foremost - people, especially damaged, unhealthy, unstable, and emotionally/psychologically immature/broken people, will and do say/do lots of things when a relationship is ending that are not grounded in truth and are meant to cover up their own issues, insecurities, problems, etc. As you said - if you were THAT terrible why did she stay? Of course, you could have been - but I'm guessing from what I see you saying and your responses in other threads that you're not a monster or a psychopath lol. NOW she could have stayed with you even if she didn't love you that much (despite what she might have said or did) or that you guys weren't right for each other because people (and I mean the majority of people out there) can and do stay in relationships because they're somewhat addictive and lots of people don't know how to be happy and productive on their own. 

Assuming you're relatively young - the world is still your oyster. It will hurt and it will take you some time to get over things....but eventually you will. Keep in mind a few things moving forward that I learned from that relationship I mentioned and my other ltr's I've had in life.

1. There's nothing that will stop people from being with you if they value you enough. I've seen couples make it work when one or both are in demanding educational programs (law school, medical school, etc.), when one or both work insane hours in a demanding field - legal, medical, culinary, etc., small age gapes (10-15 years), religious differences, etc. The question is always do THEY love you enough. Being stressed about school is no reason for a relationship to go bad. She's probably young and hasn't developed good coping techniques, may not have good time management skills, etc. and none of that is your fault.

2. People will say the craziest s*** when fighting or breaking up - and it's 95% of the time a reflection of them, not you. Perhaps you are a bit more "negative" than her. Perhaps you don't talk to her the way she would like you too, perhaps you did say or do some things that COULD BE interpreted as you not respecting her. BUT....more than likely her interpretations of what you did and said, how you acted, etc. were a complete reflection of HER feelings. She's young, probably inexperienced with dating, and unable to really own her own problems yet. I remember with my last ex she felt bad because as a student (who's parents wouldn't let her work on the side) she didn't have a lot of money and couldn't get me nearly as much or as nice as the things I got her. But that's HER feelings. I told her 10,000 f***ing times - I don't like gifts unless they're thoughtful, purposeful, and show true meaning and care and love. The best gifts I've ever gotten from people were usually relatively inexpensive - they simply showed that the person understood me and thought about me when they saw something or purposefully wanted to find something related to what I love. But HER feelings/perspective were skewed because her parents only showed her "love" by offering money when she threw a hissy fit or they got into a fight.

3. Look at the relationship between the person and their family. Are you affectionate? Then you better find someone who is or find someone who's from an affectionate family that can give/take it from you. If you're not that affectionate (and that's okay too) - then you should be careful dating someone who's a lot more affectionate than you unless you're willing to change a bit and THEY'RE mature enough to understand and work on things with you. Now that doesn't mean there's "perfect families" out there or that everyone worthy of dating and being in a healthy, mature, life-giving, balanced, and reciprocal relationship comes from a decent family - but if they don't they better have "done the work" as I like to call it to put that s*** in its place and lead their life they way they want to lead it. And speaking of affection - lots of people, especially younger ones, think they're "affectionate" when they really want attention. They're not the same things (which is obvious, but the average person in society couldn't tell the difference or really articulate it). AND sometimes "affection" is really unhealthy. Like I'm pretty affectionate....but I don't smother a partner and I do like certain amounts of space. So keep that in mind as well as you reflect back on your ex  - was she really looking for affection or attention. And to help a little in that matter but also to understand "love" a bit more - try reading a bit and taking the 5 Love Languages test if you have not.

4. Re-read what you wrote in your last post. She ADMITTED to giving up the last few months. That's a sign of immaturity and/or unhealthy behavior. No one PUTS up with a relationship (even in marriage) that is bad for MONTHs without trying or without leaving unless they're immature, inexperienced, and/or unhealthy (emotionally and/or psychologically). You are 100% RIGHT - her behavior during the relationship was 100% selfish and 100% unfair to you. Any relationship, but particularly romantic ones - can only work if people are honest and vulnerable and communicate (yes, it's a two way street). I can so totally feel your pain. With my ex she was a fake "good girl" - had developed a persona of acting like the nice girl to survive at home and was fake nice to people in public but was really judgmental, angry, bitter, insecure, and had MAJOR low self-esteem. To make a long story short, after a major fight we went 2 months and I thought we were doing great - but like your ex - she really (i learned in retrospect) had just given up on the relationship. My fault for not seeing that, and really my fault for not leaving after 7 months and sticking it out to two years. So take what your ex said to you and hold it dear to your heart and let it teach you and also help remind you that this isn't 100% your fault and that she's as equally guilty (if not more) for the failure of the relationship. And let it serve as a reminder moving forward to find someone who can express their wants, needs, challenges, issues, fears, etc. and lean on you when she needs to (remember - you're not in a relationship to fix the other person's problems) and BUILD something with you.

 

I know this sucks - but keep talking - it will get better.

[gcp]

Her family was actually a huge negative factor in the relationship.  I am pretty sure her dad is a narcissist or at least had some pretty dominant narcissistic traits.  And her mother is a functioning alcoholic.  I have never seen her dad without a glass of whiskey and her mom without a glass of red wine.  That is not an exaggeration.  If I were her mom I’d have to drink just to cope being around her dad as well.  Everytime we were there for dinner or gatherings it was toxic.  They seem to enjoy talking crap about the other siblings or close friends who aren’t around to defend themselves.  
A few times it was as if being around them she felt like she had the green light to show her resentment towards me, not necessarily with words but with body language.  She’d get drunk, ignore me, glare at me, be very dismissive of my presence. Always chalking it up to being drunk and not meaning it.  It was very uncomfortable for me.

She also had this weird thing with her older sister.  She would always complain that she can’t talk to her older sister because she talks down to her, thinks she knows everything, and just because she has more life experience thinks she knows the right ways.  Sound familiar, it was as if I took the place of her sister, the same things she said her sister did were out on me towards the end.  You could literally say anything and she would interpret it in the most negative way possible and hold that against you at a later date.

Her perspective of how the relationship went was so different from mine, if you’d heard us both talk you’d think we were in two different relationships.  To her it was ALL negative.  No recognition of the positive.

Edited March 17, 2021 by gcp

[scooby-philly]

Hey man,

 

I'm sorry to hear your pain as I said before. I'll be 100% blunt - while I'm not mitigating your pain or feelings - be 100% glad this is over!!! A normal, healthy, sane person (not saying you're perfect) deserves a better relationship that what you're describing. It sounds like, again with only your perspective taken into consideration....., this was a highly dysfunctional, very emotionally unhealthy, and very abusive family (emotionally). You're SO MUCH better off without any of this in your life. To be even more blunt....lol, sorry/notsorry, as you heal and move on the question will be - WHY DID YOU TOLERATE THIS? If you find yourself in a similar situation in the future - RUN!!! Every adult either stays in the milieu of their family environment/behavior or they go out and they keep that s*** in a box. If it's a bad milieu - then they (if you want to date them) have better put that in a box and keep it there. Not to say they can't have a relationship (unless it's TOO TOXIC or TOO UNHEALTHY)...but they either lay ground rules that the family abides by or they don't interact with them. Sounds harsh and cold, but that's what healthy, mature, emotionally and psychologically stable adults need to do if their family is toxic or unhealthy. So keep asking yourself why you let yourself settle for so much less than you deserve.

 

And I totally feel like we were dating the same person in many respects lol. My last ex (the age gap one I mentioned) - her older sister still lived at home and they would talk smack about their parents, their mom was a shame based, angry, bitter, money hungry woman and their dad was an enabler and probably had low self-esteem. They were an immigrant family and my ex had such shame and embarrassment over that, over their socioeconomic status (even though they were doing pretty good for folks who didn't go to college (her parents)) and she was as judgmental and condescending as you described your ex to be lol. And in retrospect a few friends on here helped me understand that in that relationship, she treated me like she treated her father. On several occasions she'd be totally immature and threaten to run away on me (no, we weren't living with each other) - because in reality she hated her family and wanted to run away from them but she didn't know how and she didn't know how to just push back against them and live her life. She was a hot mess emotionally/psychologically as I look back on it. So I can relate to what you said about how your ex talked about you like she talked about her sister. Some sort of transference I guess. Again - just be glad you didn't waste any more time with her and remember to keep working on your self-esteem so you don't settle again.

 

Hugs to you!

[gcp]

I am by no means a professional psychologist or attempting to diagnose but a close friend in the medical field mentioned BPD when I was venting about my relationship with said ex.  
 

I looked it up and did some reading from the most reliable sources I could find as well as watches Dr. Daniel Fox vids as he explains it very well and has an extensive background in personality disorders.  I am starting to believe my ex may hav bpd or at least many of the signs and behaviors.

The mood swings from happy and loving to harsh criticisms or blame over things I didn’t even realize I was doing or wasn’t doing intentionally to spite her.  I was most definitely the target of blame.  The constant walking on eggs shells.  My anxiety went thru the roof being with her. I didn’t know what was going to happen whenever I went home.  I was afraid to ask for alone time or time to just relax and be with my thoughts.  When she wanted to fight I had to sit and listen to a list of all the wrongs I committed, process them all right then and make amends on the spot.  
 

The lack of empathy or emotional boundaries were very apparent.  She wanted me be vulnerable and I was at first but when she thought I had wronged her or wasn’t giving her enough attention she used my vulnerabilities as a weapon to attack my self esteem and self worth.  I broke up with her but she somehow mad me feel like she dumped me and I am the worst guy in the world.  

She also saw the relationship as either all good or all bad.  There was no in between.  
 

I feel bad for her, she may just be immature and a person who is hurting.  But damn I hope she finds her peace.

Edited March 23, 2021 by gcp

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, gcp said:

The constant walking on eggs shells.

Interestingly there a book with this title: 

"Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Paul T. T. Mason MS, Randi Kreger

[trident_2020]

I'm usually the dumper in my relationships. I can tell you first-hand a lot of the negative stuff that is said is due to the need to validate the decision to end the relationship.

Sure, being dumped is devastating, there's the whole lack of control, anxiety, rejection.. but dumping isn't easy either because oftentimes you second guess the decision.