elaine567 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Only her level or higher is what I said. But dating at her level is not hypergamy. Dating higher is hypergamy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 56 minutes ago, elaine567 said: A successful woman looking to only date men on her level can not be described as an example of hypergamy. Agreed. 57 minutes ago, elaine567 said: And of course she will limit her options but she likely doesn't want to date guys below her level, so why would she want to do that? What is the definition of "her level"? What are defining success by? Someone's education? How much they earn? 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: The success of the union will be compromised, if she dates down. It would? Only if she has that frame of mind to start with... 59 minutes ago, elaine567 said: A man may wish to marry down as he just wants an attractive cook, nanny and a housekeeper, but what advantage does a woman gain from dating down? Generally men are less bothered by what a woman earns than vice versa. Generally men are a little more inclined to choose a relationship based on looks. However, both sexes significantly overlap in this regard. Hypergamy was a thing when women didn't work, but now that most work, successful women who choose to only date up will severely limit their choice in men. The more successful she is, the narrower her dating pool becomes. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Trail Blazer said: What is the definition of "her level"? What are defining success by? Someone's education? How much they earn Yes it could be earning capacity or potential but it can also be intelligence, education, upbringing, class, status... etc. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Hypergamy still exists because as enlightened as people seem to think they are the way they act often contradicts their enlightenment. People love to think we operate on a higher level than those in the past but we really don't. Women might not like traditional masculinity outwardly but subconsciously many still respond positively to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: It would? Only if she has that frame of mind to start with... Not necessarily, some men get very resentful of successful women, especially if he has not managed to surpass her in the career and earning stakes. The natural order is the guy brings home the bacon and the woman cooks it and whilst that is an old fashioned idea, a guy who feels he is playing second fiddle to his wife is often not a happy guy. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: Not necessarily, some men get very resentful of successful women, especially if he has not managed to surpass her in the career and earning stakes. The natural order is the guy brings home the bacon and the woman cooks it and whilst that is an old fashioned idea, a guy who feels he is playing second fiddle to his wife is often not a happy guy. Honestly while there are some sexist men who need to be the provider most men are simple and just want a drama free relationship. If women were fine with dating and marrying down at large most men would be okay with it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, Woggle said: Honestly while there are some sexist men who need to be the provider most men are simple and just want a drama free relationship. If women were fine with dating and marrying down at large most men would be okay with it. Agreed. It can't be stated enough the importance of a drama-free relationship for most men. Most men only care about dating down if it bothers the woman and she becomes resentful and behaves in a manner that makes him feel emasculated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Not necessarily, some men get very resentful of successful women, especially if he has not managed to surpass her in the career and earning stakes. The natural order is the guy brings home the bacon and the woman cooks it and whilst that is an old fashioned idea, a guy who feels he is playing second fiddle to his wife is often not a happy guy. So, you're saying it's mainly the guy's issue in this context? Your post implied that it was all about the woman's issue here pertaining to her dating down. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 19 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Yes it could be earning capacity or potential but it can also be intelligence, education, upbringing, class, status... etc. So really, it's pretty arbitrary. Dating down is like looks, it's subjective and in the eye of the beholder. In that respect, saying that dating down will cause problems for a woman is as obvious as stating that a lack of physical attraction will cause problems. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: Agreed. It can't be stated enough the importance of a drama-free relationship for most men. Most men only care about dating down if it bothers the woman and she becomes resentful and behaves in a manner that makes him feel emasculated. Exactly. The contempt is clear from some women when they are dealing with men they think are beneath them and being in a relationships with a woman who has contempt for you is just a nightmare. You twist yourself into a pretzel and none of it matters because at the end of the day she still feels like she settled for you. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 29 minutes ago, elaine567 said: The natural order is the guy brings home the bacon and the woman cooks it and whilst that is an old fashioned idea, a guy who feels he is playing second fiddle to his wife is often not a happy guy. That’s not the natural order. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
FMW Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, poppyfields said: You see, HE was vetting her too. That's a good point. The guy I'm involved with is a musician, he's toured regularly (until COVID) and recorded a lot with his bands and also as a session musician. But he's not a big time artist, and my experience with my musician friends is they weren't paid that well and had to have "day jobs" to pay the bills. Although I knew he didn't have a day job, I saw him as the same, and from the beginning we always took turns paying for things. At my age I'm established in my career and making comfortable enough money, never want to get married again and have no need (or desire) for a guy to support me financially. As I've told people, and written in this forum, he's the best guy I've known after my dad. Best means he's honest, authentic, ethical, and truly cares for people and treats everyone with respect. And he is very well-respected and loved by a lot of people for that reason. THAT is really, really attractive to me and I feel really fortunate to have him in my life. Well into our relationship I found out that he's most definitely not a starving artist. He lives in a modest home and drives a new but modest vehicle and has a modest fishing boat. No one would ever guess what's in his bank accounts. When it became very clear to him I had no interest in his financial situation he felt free to be open about it with me. He also tries to pay for everything now, but nothing has changed for me so I still want to treat him at times. If I had shown myself to be someone who judged men on their possessions and apparent ability to buy me things we wouldn't have gotten past the first few weeks together. I don't have any data to back me up, but my guess is that most women who place position and money over other qualities in men are going to end up with men who value them primarily for their looks. So in those situations the men better hope they don't lose their position/money and the women better hope they don't start showing their age or gain weight. Edited March 26, 2021 by FMW 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 WRT "dating down" I think for most if not the vast majority of couples there will have to be a compromise somewhere. If it's not money, it might be looks, intelligence, personality, "quality" of the family, level of interest in shared hobbies etc, etc. There are women with little interest in dating a man too far below her "station" (career level, earnings) and there are those who'd be ok with it. We've had a few post on this site (I'll concede it hasn't been tons and tons.) Likewise there are men who prefer a woman not have a job so long as she hot and/or interested in cooking and child-rearing. And there are guys (like me) who would NOT be interested in that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 It seems to me some women love "projects" and challenges so thus will accept men who to all intents and purposes are far below her "level", as she will be determined to "fix" him, her love and care will sort him out... No hypergamy there. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
mark clemson Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: It seems to me some women love "projects" ... her love and care will sort him out... Indeed. There's more than one form of "validation" people respond to. This approach would seem to have the (putative) side benefit of keeping the competition at a dull roar as well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Miss Spider Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: It seems to me some women love "projects" and challenges so thus will accept men who to all intents and purposes are far below her "level", as she will be determined to "fix" him, her love and care will sort him out... No hypergamy there. OK, see you because I know my friend she is super hot, she has a degree in business but she bartends at this really popular bar here( She makes a lot of $) She is dating this deadbeat guy. His eyes are like always half-way shut because he’s stoned all the time and he only comes out at night and only mumbles of a few incoherent sentences. He works part time cashier at this local head shop and is studying, but whenever I see him at her house (yea he lives in her house) he’s playing video games or “sleeping”. I guess he’s kind of cute if you squint a lot. But she’s like really, really in love with him and I’m like girl why Edited March 26, 2021 by Cookiesandough 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 9 hours ago, Fletch Lives said: One of my lady friends said the other day, "I don't need diamonds - just Cheetos and chocolate"! Those Cheetos diggers are after your snacks.🐆 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Fletch Lives Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 Snack on, mang, snack on! 😄 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 4 hours ago, elaine567 said: It seems to me some women love "projects" and challenges so thus will accept men who to all intents and purposes are far below her "level", as she will be determined to "fix" him, her love and care will sort him out... No hypergamy there. I'd say these are very rare. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 (edited) When my mother remarried my dad, it was because she saw that he'd matured, and he also didn't lie about losing his wallet, when the bills were due, like the guy she was engaged to before (who also did something much worse to her, when he was insecure re: my dad visiting us for the holidays). She definitely traded up, and my dad isn't rich. He is a hard worker, and a good man. The reason she left my dad in the first place, had nothing to do with money. *edit. She was also once engaged to a man who had money, and she dumped him. Edited March 26, 2021 by Angelle 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: OK, see you because I know my friend she is super hot, she has a degree in business but she bartends at this really popular bar here( She makes a lot of $) She is dating this deadbeat guy. His eyes are like always half-way shut because he’s stoned all the time and he only comes out at night and only mumbles of a few incoherent sentences. He works part time cashier at this local head shop and is studying, but whenever I see him at her house (yea he lives in her house) he’s playing video games or “sleeping”. I guess he’s kind of cute if you squint a lot. But she’s like really, really in love with him and I’m like girl why My sister married a guy who is on social security, who is twenty-five years older than her, and makes a little extra money through writing articles for sites like Hubspace. He has nothing going for him, she had a lot going for her, and she chose him over anything else that she could have done. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: Agreed. It can't be stated enough the importance of a drama-free relationship for most men. Most men only care about dating down if it bothers the woman and she becomes resentful and behaves in a manner that makes him feel emasculated. In my own life, men have really brought the drama, but the fault was always projected onto someone else. I don't see men as any more drama-free than women I know. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dis Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 13 hours ago, basil67 said: What about those who are doing bar work while they are earning their degree? Super, super common way to keep the money flowing. That's great too! I was a companion and homemaker while I was in nursing school Whatever pays the bills while you strive for more 3 Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 8 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I'd say these are very rare. They are extremely common. There are many pages of posts here dedicated to the plight of women who chose men with all kinds of issues ranging from serious drug addiction to being a confirmed couch potato, confident that they were going to "fix" these guys. It rarely ends well. Back to the idea that 99.9% of women want to marry a cardiologist: Being married to a doctor is not great if the woman wants to be paid a lot of attention to. Doctors spend a lot of their careers NOT being home. In my house we never ate dinner with our dad except on Sundays, when he was on call he could be going to the hospital at any hour. When he was home he was tired. Mom was not a happy woman, though she did have a nice house and clothes. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Dis Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 53 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said: Back to the idea that 99.9% of women want to marry a cardiologist: Being married to a doctor is not great if the woman wants to be paid a lot of attention to. Doctors spend a lot of their careers NOT being home. In my house we never ate dinner with our dad except on Sundays, when he was on call he could be going to the hospital at any hour. When he was home he was tired. Mom was not a happy woman, though she did have a nice house and clothes. Very true depending on the field The docs at my job are on call and even if they're not called into the facility we call them around the clock They don't get a moments peace 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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