Hypergamy. why 'good'men get left behind?

[Dis]

14 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

 

What is the definition of "her level"?  What are defining success by?  Someone's education?  How much they earn?

 

I think it's an issue of compatibility though

 

I know some want to think a male bartender is going to be perfectly suitable for a female doctor but that's not the world we live in. Yes it can work for some but if we're just being honest here, like attracts like 

 

I don't think I'd have much in common with a bartender (no not one of these rare bartenders who makes a boat load), or a retail worker. Not because I'm some stuffy RN but because we wouldn't share the same ambition, a similar lifestyle, the same goals, the same income and all of those things are points of compatibility 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Dis

[Cookiesandough]

12 minutes ago, Dis said:

I think it's an issue of compatibility though

 

I know some want to think a male bartender is going to be perfectly suitable for a female doctor but that's not the world we live in. Yes it can work for some but if we're just being honest here, like attracts like 

 

I don't think I'd have much in common with a bartender (no not one of these rare bartenders who makes a boat load), or a retail worker. Not because I'm some stuffy RN but because we wouldn't share the same ambition, the same goals, the same income and all of those things are points of compatibility 

What about a doctor, because I know anecdotally that quite a few nurses married doctors? Do you think that you would be more suited for a fellow RN than a doctor because of the same points of ambition, goals, income ?  For the sake of example, let’s say he’s solo practice so doesn’t have crazy shifts. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Dis]

Just now, Cookiesandough said:

What about a doctor, because I know anecdotally that quite a few nurses married doctors? Do you think that you would be more suited for a fellow RN than a doctor because of the same points of ambition, goals, income ?  For the sake of example, let’s say it’s not he’s solo practice so doesn’t have crazy shifts. 

Either one would be fine and I don't even have a preference about dating someone in the medical field either

 

I would just need a guy who could match or exceed my income, have a reliable job (trade/degree) and intelligence 

 

My mom is a Nurse Practitioner and my dad is in investments. Both are relatively high paying jobs that require a degree and they're both smart people...I see many more compatible couples in situations like this than I see couples who have huge differences in education/income and I think there's a reason for it...compatibility 

[Cookiesandough]

4 minutes ago, Dis said:

Either one would be fine and I don't even have a preference about dating someone in the medical field either

 

I would just need a guy who could match or exceed my income, have a reliable job (trade/degree) and intelligence 

 

My mom is a Nurse Practitioner and my dad is in investments. Both are relatively high paying jobs that require a degree and they're both smart people...I see many more compatible couples in situations like this than I see couples who have huge differences in education/income and I think there's a reason for it...compatibility 

What if he made way more than you though? What if he was a business owner and he made multi millions. Would it be too different? 

[Dis]

Just now, Cookiesandough said:

What if he made way more than you though? What if he was a business owner and he made multi millions. Would it be too different? 

Honestly? At this point of course I wouldn't have a problem with it after years and years dating guys who didn't make nearly as much as I did

 

I would consider it a hard earned victory!

 

As long as we were compatible in other areas too...don't want a meanie

[Weezy1973]

3 hours ago, Dis said:

Honestly? At this point of course I wouldn't have a problem with it after years and years dating guys who didn't make nearly as much as I did

 

I would consider it a hard earned victory!

 

As long as we were compatible in other areas too...don't want a meanie

And this is hyoergsmy. Someone who makes less than you, you would have a problem with, yet someone who made more, even a lot more, you would be fine with as long as you were compatible. So like doesn’t really attract like as long as he makes more?

 

And how exactly does a woman “earn” a man that makes substantially more than herself?

[poppyfields]

The problem I have with hypergamy is women are judging men and determining "compatibility" on the wrong things.  Not that there is any right or wrong per se, women are entitled to want what they want, but judging men based on financial success is shallow and unfair, imo.  

Back to the bartender, he may be a bartender but his ambition and passion could be writing or music or both (for example) and he bartends to make money while he pursues his passion.

Is this of no importance?  He may eventually become successful in these endeavors but yet was discarded due to the lack of immediate financial success in that particular woman's eyes ?

And what about compatibility re integrity, compassion for others, empathy?  And the special energy/connection they share together?

Again, of no importance due to lack of immediate financial success?

Or let's switch it, the man is the doctor and the woman is the bartender or waitress, if he were attracted (attraction consisting of physical, mental, emotional) we all know he would have no issue whatsoever with her lack of financial success. He might even marry such woman and be happy for the rest of his life with a woman who loves him, faithful regardless of whether they chose to have children or not.

HE has not judged her by her financial success, so why is it considered acceptable in our society for women to do so?   

If she is a doctor, lawyer or CEO, she makes more than enough to provide for family, so that is not the issue imo.

The issue is women are being taught to be entitled, and this is wrong.  It's unfair to men.  It's shallow.  

Women should be taught to value different things, like honesty, integrity, compassion, empathy.  And if having money for vacays and things is important, earn it herself.  Become a doctor or lawyer herself.  

I am super attracted to compassionate, ambitious men myself (it reflects strong character and a certain inner drive I find appealing), which does not always translate to him earning more or even equal to what I earn - a teacher for example or social worker.  

I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination (far from) but if that man possessed traits such as honesty, integrity (which is huge to me personally), compassion for his fellow man, a kind heart, and we shared a special energy/chemistry, I'd probably want to marry that man and be happy for the rest of my life regardless of whether or not he earned more than I.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

8 hours ago, Dis said:

I think it's an issue of compatibility though

 

I know some want to think a male bartender is going to be perfectly suitable for a female doctor but that's not the world we live in. Yes it can work for some but if we're just being honest here, like attracts like 

 

I don't think I'd have much in common with a bartender (no not one of these rare bartenders who makes a boat load), or a retail worker. Not because I'm some stuffy RN but because we wouldn't share the same ambition, a similar lifestyle, the same goals, the same income and all of those things are points of compatibility 

I think that career choice is only one aspect to compatibility, though.  

Take, for example, my girlfriend.  She grew up in the well-to-do side of town.  She attended one of the most prestigious schools in Oregon.  Her family are all high-achievers and work in very respected professions.  She herself, has three college degrees and is a Veterinarian.

Then, you have your's truly.  I came from a broken home, never had a relationship with my father as he left when I was three.  My mom battled away trying to keep a roof over our heads earning a low income as an accounts playable clark.  And to top it all off, I'm a high school drop-out.

If that's all I chose to divulge to you, you'd instantly dismiss me as not being compatible.  That's fine, because without the full context, I wouldn't sound like much of a catch at all, if career choice was your most important metric in dating.  

On paper, my girlfriend and I should be completely incompatible, but in reality, when we met the chemistry was through the roof.  18 months on, and every day being with her feels just as exciting as the last.  We're compatible in almost every way and match each other's energy and desire for deep, emotional and intelligent conversation.

You may be missing out on an amazing relationship by dismissing someone based on their career choice.  You also maybe surprised at just how much some people who have never set foot in a University can and do earn because they're intelligent, resourceful and highly skilled in in-demand disciplines which pay a lot of money.

 

 

 

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

And this is hypergamy.

True, but to be fair, Dis said she "didn't have a problem with it," not that it was a hard and fast requirement.  Also she's dated "down" (financially) in the past. If it had been the right relationship, she could be married to one of those guys. So again more of a tendency than some strict practice/requirement. And she said nothing about leaving a "poor" guy for a rich guy, which seems to be the big thing I hear whined about. No doubt that does happen sometimes, no question.

Edited March 27, 2021 by mark clemson

[Weezy1973]

18 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

True, but to be fair, Dis said she "didn't have a problem with it," not that it was a hard and fast requirement.  Also she's dated "down" (financially) in the past.

Sure, and I wasn’t even saying anything negative about it. People can prefer whatever they want. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of saying this:

 

12 hours ago, Dis said:

I don't think I'd have much in common with a bartender (no not one of these rare bartenders who makes a boat load), or a retail worker. Not because I'm some stuffy RN but because we wouldn't share the same ambition, a similar lifestyle, the same goals, the same income and all of those things are points of compatibility 

And then saying she’s “earned” a multi-millionaire or a doctor where these same things apply, only he’s the one with more ambition, more income and “all of those things that are points of compatibility.”

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Sure, and I wasn’t even saying anything negative about it.

Sure it's a preference only; and I agree that generally a high status partner isn't something "earned" it's something one gets by finding a partner who happens to have high status. (Gold diggers excepted I guess.)

I guess Dis can speak for herself, but I think she means "earned" metaphorically only in the sense of she's had lower income partners for 2 relationships now and so feels ready to try a high income one.  Kind of like the guy who did a lot of cold camping and now feels he's "earned" the privilege of booking fancier hotel rooms when he travels. He's feels he's done enough time sleeping on cold floors, etc (but of course he's actually "earned" nothing).

Edited March 27, 2021 by mark clemson

[Dis]

6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I think that career choice is only one aspect to compatibility, though.  

Take, for example, my girlfriend.  She grew up in the well-to-do side of town.  She attended one of the most prestigious schools in Oregon.  Her family are all high-achievers and work in very respected professions.  She herself, has three college degrees and is a Veterinarian.

Then, you have your's truly.  I came from a broken home, never had a relationship with my father as he left when I was three.  My mom battled away trying to keep a roof over our heads earning a low income as an accounts playable clark.  And to top it all off, I'm a high school drop-out.

If that's all I chose to divulge to you, you'd instantly dismiss me as not being compatible.  That's fine, because without the full context, I wouldn't sound like much of a catch at all, if career choice was your most important metric in dating.  

On paper, my girlfriend and I should be completely incompatible, but in reality, when we met the chemistry was through the roof.  

You may be missing out on an amazing relationship by dismissing someone based on their career choice.  You also maybe surprised at just how much some people who have never set foot in a University can and do earn because they're intelligent, resourceful and highly skilled in in-demand disciplines which pay a lot of money.

 

 

 

I wouldn't dismiss someone based off education/career choices thought and I've said many times that a guy who had his own trade or profitable business would be fine with me as long as he had a reliable income and there's nothing wrong with wanting that especially after I've dated men who couldn't afford a roof over their heads. 

[Weezy1973]

22 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Sure it's a preference only; and I agree that generally a high status partner isn't something "earned" it's something one gets by finding a partner who happens to have high status.

Exactly. So it’s finding someone compatible and the status doesn’t matter. Could be higher, could be lower. Most people will pair up with the same.

[Cookiesandough]

I want to add a few more things that I found to this thread. Don’t mind me.

 

According to some studies, men make more money than the woman in a majority of couples. Women who make more then the man account for a little over 25% of couples.

Source 1

 

Longevity & satisfaction is highest when the man earns more. Both men and women were happiest in relationships where men work and women were homemakers.. Women were significantly less happy if the man earned less. Married couples are 33% more likely to divorce if the husband isn’t working full-time. 

Source 2

 

source 3

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[Dis]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

True, but to be fair, Dis said she "didn't have a problem with it," not that it was a hard and fast requirement.  Also she's dated "down" (financially) in the past. If it had been the right relationship, she could be married to one of those guys. So again more of a tendency than some strict practice/requirement. And she said nothing about leaving a "poor" guy for a rich guy, which seems to be the big thing I hear whined about. No doubt that does happen sometimes, no question.

 

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

Sure it's a preference only; and I agree that generally a high status partner isn't something "earned" it's something one gets by finding a partner who happens to have high status. (Gold diggers excepted I guess.)

I guess Dis can speak for herself, but I think she means "earned" metaphorically only in the sense of she's had lower income partners for 2 relationships now and so feels ready to try a high income one.  Kind of like the guy who did a lot of cold camping and now feels he's "earned" the privilege of booking fancier hotel rooms when he travels. He's feels he's done enough time sleeping on cold floors, etc (but of course he's actually "earned" nothing).

Exactly. Yup. 

 

Thanks for explaining this Mark 🤗

[Dis]

24 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

I want to add a few more things that I found to this thread. Don’t mind me.

 

According to some studies, men make more money than the woman in a majority of couples. Women who make more then the man account for a little over 25% of couples.

Source 1

 

Longevity & satisfaction is highest when the man earns more. Both men and women were happiest in relationships where men work and women were homemakers.. Women were significantly less happy if the man earned less. Married couples are 33% more likely to divorce if the husband isn’t working full-time. 

Source 2

 

source 3

 

 

I would be happiest with an arrangement like this but I would still want to work full time. 

 

Wouldn't be fulfilled sitting at home. 

 

There's something attractive about a guy who's a bread winner and who takes the lead in building a prosperous life with his partner

[Woggle]

On paper my wife and I are not a fit either because she comes from a fortunate background and I come from the gutter but at the end of the day I knew what it would take not to end up like many of the people I knew from back in the day and I did it.

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, Dis said:

I wouldn't dismiss someone based off education/career choices thought and I've said many times that a guy who had his own trade or profitable business would be fine with me as long as he had a reliable income and there's nothing wrong with wanting that especially after I've dated men who couldn't afford a roof over their heads. 

Okay cool.  Perhaps you have and I've not seen you post this.  Thanks for clarifying.

[Weezy1973]

The inconsistency I’ve seen in the this thread is the idea that a man of equal income or higher income would be compatible, but lower income would be incompatible. That’s a different idea than just a preference. If disparate incomes are inherently incompatible, than both a man with a higher income and a lower income would both be equally incompatible. 
 

But that’s hypergamy for you in a nutshell. 
 

 

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Both men and women were happiest in relationships where men work and women were homemakers..

And here is a study saying mothers are happier when they go back to work. 

https://gostrengths.com/are-working-moms-happier-than-stay-at-home-moms/

 

 

[Dis]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Okay cool.  Perhaps you have and I've not seen you post this.  Thanks for clarifying.

Np! I just don't want it to seem like I'm picky about education or anything

 

I dated a guy who owed his own welding company. He also didn't finish high school but made a good amount with his business

 

That's admirable and attractive to me. As someone who is in a lot of debt from a college degree I can appreciate a guy who goes a different route  

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

The inconsistency I’ve seen in the this thread is the idea that a man of equal income or higher income would be compatible, but lower income would be incompatible. That’s a different idea than just a preference. If disparate incomes are inherently incompatible, than both a man with a higher income and a lower income would both be equally incompatible. 
 

But that’s hypergamy for you in a nutshell. 
 

 

I probably don't need to point out that this is not a "woman" thing.  It is part of a personality.  Its reversed gender equivalent would be the common topics  posted by men who point out that an overweight woman is not compatible with them, but a women of a lower weight would be compatible - pretty much the same thing.  

For some folks much can be overlooked if someone has the right amount of money or body type.

 

[NuevoYorko]

16 hours ago, poppyfields said:

 

Or let's switch it, the man is the doctor and the woman is the bartender or waitress, if he were attracted (attraction consisting of physical, mental, emotional) we all know he would have no issue whatsoever with her lack of financial success. He might even marry such woman and be happy for the rest of his life with a woman who loves him, faithful regardless of whether they chose to have children or not.

HE has not judged her by her financial success, so why is it considered acceptable in our society for women to do so?   

Unfortunately for us all, it's considered acceptable in our society for sex to have a MARKET VALUE, which is the premise of this thread.

There are women who trade on their looks to "earn" a man with an impressive income.  Men who  trade on their earning potential to land a hot woman.  I think these are people who tend to approach relationships in a highly transactional manner.  Both of them would have to share that quality or this kind of barter system would be an abysmal flop.

Society doesn't just teach women to be entitled, it teaches everyone to be entitled.  You get a rich guy, I get a fine woman.  

It's demoralizing to read threads that illustrate how so many young people are still buying into this.

People are living their lives in all kinds of ways.  If a person has a passion for their work and it's very consuming, they may well have a better relationship with someone less career driven.  I know a woman who is a professor at the university and she's the world's most recognized expert in her field.  Her husband is a photographer (not famous) who earns a living guiding hikes for people who want to take pictures.  My doctor is a woman; her husband is a teacher.  My daughter is some kind of HR executive and her partner works at a deli in their building while he finishes his Masters (which will never earn him any money).  He also does all the shopping and cooking.  Yes, I also know dozens of people who are in more traditional roles - my neighbor is a financial advisor and his wife stays home with the kids, etc.

It takes some money to have a comfortable life.   It also takes a lot of other things.  Why do so many of you care what aspects are provided by a man or a woman?

 

 

 

[Dis]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

I probably don't need to point out that this is not a "woman" thing.  It is part of a personality.  Its reversed gender equivalent would be the common topics  posted by men who point out that an overweight woman is not compatible with them, but a women of a lower weight would be compatible - pretty much the same thing.  

For some folks much can be overlooked if someone has the right amount of money or body type.

 

But if a wealthy guy gets a hot girl and that hot girl gets that wealthy guy...then isn't it a win for both of them?

 

Maybe it's not a PC concept...but it works for some people 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Dis

[elaine567]

Hypergamy is a nice scientific term that allows some bitter folk usually men, to bash women and their choices.
Hypergamy scientifically refers to both sexes but has been adopted popularly  as a term that usually refers to women and is used in a derogatory way.
Those that not cannot compete, love the term. Incels and other guys deemed "undesirable", spit the term out with venom. 
They get to take out all their frustrations on those "hypergamy" loving women, women who they think  SHOULD be dating them.

Truth is everyone wants the best that they can get, whether they be men or women.
Men in general are happy to reject and dismiss women who are subjectively below the societal average as regards beauty, yet "women" are expected to accept men who are below the societal average as regard income. The narrative is that ugly women somehow deserve rejection whereas low income men SHOULD be given a chance and hypergamous women are the lowest of the low...   for daring to put their own needs and wants first...   

Practically, hypergamy makes sense.
Women are the ones ultimately responsible for their kids futures, so why would she not choose the guy who will be able to put a lot into the family pot? 
Why, if given the choice, would she not choose a richer life for herself and her kids?

.