Weezy1973 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said: Its reversed gender equivalent would be the common topics posted by men who point out that an overweight woman is not compatible with them, but a women of a lower weight would be compatible - pretty much the same thing. Not weight, but lifestyle. A man who’s not into health and fitness thinking he’s compatible with a woman that is. Lots of unhealthy skinny folks out there... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: Practically, hypergamy makes sense. Women are the ones ultimately responsible for their kids futures, so why would she not choose the guy who will be able to put a lot into the family pot? Why, if given the choice, would she not choose a richer life for herself and her kids? It definitely made sense when men were the only ones with an income. Not true anymore. Women are free to make as much money as they want. And my understanding of hypergamy is that it’s not a logical choice, but more of a subconscious attraction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dis said: But if a wealthy guy gets a hot girl and that hot girl gets that wealthy guy...then isn't it a win for both of them? Maybe it's not a PC concept...but it works for some people Absolutely. In fact the matching hypothesis, which shows that by and large people of the same physical attractiveness level pair up, says there are exceptions and this is then main one. Ugly rich dude with trophy wife. Edited March 28, 2021 by Weezy1973 2 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: It definitely made sense when men were the only ones with an income. Not true anymore. Women are free to make as much money as they want. And my understanding of hypergamy is that it’s not a logical choice, but more of a subconscious attraction. OK many women earn a lot, some more than men but the whole pot is bigger with a guy who earns a lot, and many women need to factor in not working, working part time, or not getting the career progression they may have achieved had they not had kids. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 minute ago, elaine567 said: OK many women earn a lot, some more than men but the whole pot is bigger with a guy who earns a lot, and many women need to factor in not working, working part time, or not getting the career progression they may have achieved had they not had kids. Again that’s suggesting a logical choice, as opposed to subconscious attraction. And if it’s a logical choice it goes both ways. Men would also prefer high earning women. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Again that’s suggesting a logical choice, as opposed to subconscious attraction. And if it’s a logical choice it goes both ways. Men would also prefer high earning women. Men don't NEED high earning women, men are not usually thinking about kids or giving up work to look after them or working part time or not getting that great job due to having to look after kids., are they? I do not disagree there is some innate attraction to money and power in some women, but there is also a lot of logical thinking involved too. Hypergamy is however not only a female thing. I did work with a guy who told me at Uni his main job was to look for a rich heiress who was an only child. He found her, married her and whilst a high earner himself he was catapulted into the super rich category due to her money and assets... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Men don't NEED high earning women, And women don’t need high earning men. Both men and women would benefit from a high earning partner though, if they’re making choices based on logic. 5 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Hypergamy is however not only a female thing. I did work with a guy who told me at Uni his main job was to look for a rich heiress who was an only child. He found her, married her and whilst a high earner himself he was catapulted into the super rich category due to her money and assets... Case in point. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Uruktopi Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 5 hours ago, elaine567 said: Hypergamy is a nice scientific term that allows some bitter folk usually men, to bash women and their choices. Hypergamy scientifically refers to both sexes but has been adopted popularly as a term that usually refers to women and is used in a derogatory way. Those that not cannot compete, love the term. Incels and other guys deemed "undesirable", spit the term out with venom. They get to take out all their frustrations on those "hypergamy" loving women, women who they think SHOULD be dating them. Truth is everyone wants the best that they can get, whether they be men or women. Men in general are happy to reject and dismiss women who are subjectively below the societal average as regards beauty, yet "women" are expected to accept men who are below the societal average as regard income. The narrative is that ugly women somehow deserve rejection whereas low income men SHOULD be given a chance and hypergamous women are the lowest of the low... for daring to put their own needs and wants first... Practically, hypergamy makes sense. Women are the ones ultimately responsible for their kids futures, so why would she not choose the guy who will be able to put a lot into the family pot? Why, if given the choice, would she not choose a richer life for herself and her kids?. Your post brings clarity to the debate. Bravo! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 hours ago, Dis said: But if a wealthy guy gets a hot girl and that hot girl gets that wealthy guy...then isn't it a win for both of them? Maybe it's not a PC concept...but it works for some people I don't understand what you consider a win. The hot girl could be cold/selfish/dishonest/sneaky. The rich man could be narcissist and abusive. The real win in your love life is a partner that is loving, supportive, kind, committed, hard working, compatible in life style and life goal. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Dis said: Np! I just don't want it to seem like I'm picky about education or anything I dated a guy who owed his own welding company. He also didn't finish high school but made a good amount with his business That's admirable and attractive to me. As someone who is in a lot of debt from a college degree I can appreciate a guy who goes a different route My girlfriend has a stupidly high debt from being a career student. She's spent collectively thirteen years at University. I have a mechanical trade and work in the oilfields. I'm debt-free and earn six-figures. University is a waste of time for many. A buddy I grew up with, his stepfather was a boilermaker/welder. Owns his own very successful business. He dropped out of school in ninth grade, but that didn't stop him in life. Skills pay the bills and his welding skills were right up there. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 hours ago, elaine567 said: Hypergamy is a nice scientific term that allows some bitter folk usually men, to bash women and their choices. Hypergamy scientifically refers to both sexes but has been adopted popularly as a term that usually refers to women and is used in a derogatory way. Those that not cannot compete, love the term. Incels and other guys deemed "undesirable", spit the term out with venom. They get to take out all their frustrations on those "hypergamy" loving women, women who they think SHOULD be dating them. ... Exactly, to ignore this or to try to place it on some "scientific" or "natural truth" footing is just to mainstream a form of toxic entitlement; which is not harmless at all. Quote Truth is everyone wants the best that they can get, whether they be men or women. Agreed, but one person's "best" is another person's "no thank you." 2 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 53 minutes ago, Gaeta said: I don't understand what you consider a win. The hot girl could be cold/selfish/dishonest/sneaky. The rich man could be narcissist and abusive. The real win in your love life is a partner that is loving, supportive, kind, committed, hard working, compatible in life style and life goal. I'd agree, but I suspect for sociopaths, where such emotions of caring, loving, support, nurturing, are basically foreign to them all you have left are feelings of status and power. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gaeta said: I don't understand what you consider a win. The hot girl could be cold/selfish/dishonest/sneaky. The rich man could be narcissist and abusive. The real win in your love life is a partner that is loving, supportive, kind, committed, hard working, compatible in life style and life goal. Omg was just about to post the same thing! Exactly. 👍 It's like you read my mind.... Edited March 28, 2021 by poppyfields 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Gaeta said: I don't understand what you consider a win. The hot girl could be cold/selfish/dishonest/sneaky. The rich man could be narcissist and abusive. The real win in your love life is a partner that is loving, supportive, kind, committed, hard working, compatible in life style and life goal. I agree but to many men a hot trophy wife you can parade around as arm candy is a win. It is a status symbol just like a rich men is to some women. Many people just want to look like they made it in life and these things signify that. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, SumGuy said: I'd agree, but I suspect for sociopaths, where such emotions of caring, loving, support, nurturing, are basically foreign to them all you have left are feelings of status and power. True but Gaeta was responding to Dis' post wherein she stated if a woman is hot and the man is wealthy = win. Asking Dis how she defined "win." We're getting into a whole n'other debate by bringing sociopathy into the discussion. That's a whole different thing, imo. Edited March 28, 2021 by poppyfields 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 13 hours ago, Dis said: But if a wealthy guy gets a hot girl and that hot girl gets that wealthy guy...then isn't it a win for both of them? As others have pointed out already, there are other aspects to people that can make either or both of these theoretical people a loss for the other. Furthermore, it's only a "win" for both in short-term relationships. Assuming one is somewhat smart with it, wealth is an appreciating asset. Beauty is a depreciating asset. If I were a wealthy man specifically looking for a hot woman over everything else (to be clear, I'm not), my plan would be multiple, non legally binding relationships over the course of my lifetime. It would be the way to get the most hot girl for my money. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Dis Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 7 hours ago, Gaeta said: I don't understand what you consider a win. The hot girl could be cold/selfish/dishonest/sneaky. The rich man could be narcissist and abusive. The real win in your love life is a partner that is loving, supportive, kind, committed, hard working, compatible in life style and life goal. Wouldn't be for me but some people are shallow. Some guys really do only want looks and some women really only want money Not everyone needs anything more than that 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Dis Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said: My girlfriend has a stupidly high debt from being a career student. She's spent collectively thirteen years at University. I have a mechanical trade and work in the oilfields. I'm debt-free and earn six-figures. University is a waste of time for many. A buddy I grew up with, his stepfather was a boilermaker/welder. Owns his own very successful business. He dropped out of school in ninth grade, but that didn't stop him in life. Skills pay the bills and his welding skills were right up there. Oh absolutely and although I wouldn't trade my career for anything I'm seriously kicking myself for going the college route because it will take more than my entire annual salary to pay off my student loan debt so...why did I do this??? 🤔 lol My Uncle came from nothing and he started his own landscaping company and now has a houses on private beaches all around the country...THAT is a better way to go, IMO 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Uruktopi Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 hours ago, SumGuy said: Agreed, but one person's "best" is another person's "no thank you." True 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 13 hours ago, elaine567 said: Men in general are happy to reject and dismiss women who are subjectively below the societal average as regards beauty, yet "women" are expected to accept men who are below the societal average as regard income. . Also men below the societal average regarding looks, personality, etc. Don't be fat, ladies, but give these guys a chance. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 14 hours ago, elaine567 said: Hypergamy is a nice scientific term that allows some bitter folk usually men, to bash women and their choices. Hypergamy scientifically refers to both sexes but has been adopted popularly as a term that usually refers to women and is used in a derogatory way. Those that not cannot compete, love the term. Incels and other guys deemed "undesirable", spit the term out with venom. They get to take out all their frustrations on those "hypergamy" loving women, women who they think SHOULD be dating them. Truth is everyone wants the best that they can get, whether they be men or women. Men in general are happy to reject and dismiss women who are subjectively below the societal average as regards beauty, yet "women" are expected to accept men who are below the societal average as regard income. The narrative is that ugly women somehow deserve rejection whereas low income men SHOULD be given a chance and hypergamous women are the lowest of the low... for daring to put their own needs and wants first... Practically, hypergamy makes sense. Women are the ones ultimately responsible for their kids futures, so why would she not choose the guy who will be able to put a lot into the family pot? Why, if given the choice, would she not choose a richer life for herself and her kids?. I have no issue with this post. However, I think the real issue many of these guys have with hypergamy is not that they begrudge a woman for wanting to choose the best guy from the outset, but rather, that hypergamy itself is some kind of biological justification for women to monkey branch. I'm not saying I agree with the red pill/incel point of view, but I do think it's important to understand their issue before rebutting it. If a woman holds out for the right guy and when she finds him and he ticks all her boxes, she stays with him, then these incel folk probably wouldn't have any issues other than fleeting jealousy because they can't compete. Where hypergamy is espoused most, is with guys who presumably had a good relationship, but (as the argument goes) they were "monkey branched" by their woman leaving them to find someone better. It's believed that women "cannot control" that biological urge to always want to gravitate to someone better. That hypergamy isn't just wanting to choose the best mate to start with, but it's ever present in a woman's psyche, and that at any moment's notice, she'll drop her man for the next best guy who shows interest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 47 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: I'm not saying I agree with the red pill/incel point of view, but I do think it's important to understand their issue before rebutting it. In my view the growth in numbers of incels has less to do with hypergamy and more to do with women entering the workplace and not needing a man anymore. That is to say, in the past there were likely a certain percentage of men that were unattractive in practically every way, except they were dependable income earners. When women didn’t work, that would be enough of a reason to marry someone. Those, I believe are primarily the men that are getting “left behind”. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said: It's believed that women "cannot control" that biological urge to always want to gravitate to someone better. That hypergamy isn't just wanting to choose the best mate to start with, but it's ever present in a woman's psyche, and that at any moment's notice, she'll drop her man for the next best guy who shows interest. I am not sure what you're suggesting here TB. That despite your girlfriend being madly in love with you (assuming she is ❤️), if she found a "better" man who was more financially successful than you (which would be a tall order since you're quite financially successful yourself), she would leave you for him? That's a rhetorical question because I don't believe she would, and neither do you. Like I said earlier, the idea that women (my own gender) are all hypergamous because it's believed "we cannot control our biological urge to always gravitate to someone better", makes me feel ill. It essentially suggests all women are biologically predisposed to be gold-diggers which I personally find rather insulting. Edited March 29, 2021 by poppyfields 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Trail Blazer Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, poppyfields said: I am not sure what you're suggesting here TB. That despite your girlfriend being madly in love with you (assuming she is ❤️), if she found a "better" man who was more financially successful than you (which would be a tall order since you're quite financially successful yourself), she would leave you for him? That's a rhetorical question because I don't believe she would, and neither do you. Like I said earlier, the idea that women (my own gender) are all hypergamous because it's believed "we cannot control our biological urge to always gravitate to someone better", makes me feel ill. It essentially suggests all women are gold-diggers which I personally find rather insulting. I wasn't claiming it as my own belief, I was stating is as I understand it to be from the perspective of those who espouse hypergamy as some kind of negative attack on women. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
poppyfields Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: I wasn't claiming it as my own belief, I was stating is as I understand it to be from the perspective of those who espouse hypergamy as some kind of negative attack on women. I know TB, I am still insulted by the suggestion of it though, by "whomever." The red pill/incel followers. Edited March 29, 2021 by poppyfields 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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