Are good looks the only thing that is of value to women?

[hotpotato]

6 hours ago, Katkats7777 said:

Are good looks the only thing the counts to women, not how "smart" they are or if they have an Ivy League degree? Its like every time people first see someone they mention, "oh, how pretty" she is and I've seen how some people treat unattractive women, they don't treat them very nicely. And it doesn't seem to matter if they are smart, because they only thing people focus on women is they way she looks...its like what's the point of women studying and going off to college, if women are playboy playmate hot, then they will make a career out of that and who cares if she is dumb? Look at anna nicole smith for example, she had an 8th grade education, pretty sure she wasn't book smart only relied on her looks. 

Also, even nerdy geeky guys who are not that attractive will most likely choose the hot women regardless of her education? Right. At least that's what this guy told me one time, he said "everything is based on looks, they don't care about college education, if a man see's a cute bartender he will pursue her, of course she can't be trash." I'm like..ok...

Just because someone is educated or booksmart doesn't mean they are likable. 

Looks get women very popluar, and I doubt that will ever change. Some women who may be beautiful may be booksmart as well. Sometimes i feel like people assume a woman must be either or. Anna Nicole Smith was smart in her own way. She hooked a rich man on his death bed instead of spending her youth with an older man. 

The average guy may value other things in a woman besides her education and money earning potential. She may not have a lot of formal education, but maybe she is fun, caring, thoughtful, good cook, good with people and especially kids, etc. 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, hotpotato said:

People looksmatch or the woman is prettier. Like definitely does not always attract like. I very rarely see good looking guys with ugly women. 

There are exceptions to the rule of course. Rich ugly dude with hot trophy wife is a thing, but certainly not common.  But why worry about the exceptions?

[hotpotato]

7 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

There are exceptions to the rule of course. Rich ugly dude with hot trophy wife is a thing, but certainly not common.  But why worry about the exceptions?

They're not exceptions. It's fairly common actually. I doubt all these soso and below guys in my podunk town are rich. 

[Weezy1973]

34 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

It's fairly common actually. I doubt all these soso and below guys in my podunk town are rich. 

If you live in a small town, yes it’s possible that the exceptions are more common just because population is low. But generalizing that to the population at large is a mistake. The matching phenomenon is well researched and shows pretty conclusively that like attracts like. 
 

That means that looks are about equally important to both men and women. 

[hotpotato]

8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

If you live in a small town, yes it’s possible that the exceptions are more common just because population is low. But generalizing that to the population at large is a mistake. The matching phenomenon is well researched and shows pretty conclusively that like attracts like. 
 

That means that looks are about equally important to both men and women. 

I'll be sure to look next time I go to a big city. I dont remember it being that different last time I went. It's a logistics issue as there are many more beautiful women than men. Straight men are very prone to not caring about how they look. 

 

Also, there are plenty of unattractive men or old men who want someone young and beautiful. They dont want a woman who is like them. After awhile they may settle, but that's not what they really want or what they are attracted to. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by hotpotato

[Weezy1973]

11 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

It's a logistics issue as there are many more beautiful women than men.

Perhaps in your town, but not in general. At least not genetically. Women do put in more effort and have “cheats” like makeup, push-up bras, eyebrow shaping, and hair coloring. But the most attractive men will pair up with the most attractive women.

[chillii]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

Look around at the couples in the street. You'll see that many men and women are quite average looking, yet they have partners.   

Exactly and it's a lot more than many too, most in fact.

Dunno how many 100 times l've pointed this out round here.

Anyway op nope , no way . But yeah of course looks your talking about do get attention like nothing else matters l know , it's pretty stupid really l agree. But at the same time , l'd say on average  and coming from a guy yeah , we couldn't care less about degrees or some high prof job , that's not the same for a woman to a guy as it often is for a guy to a woman. And they can often be high maintenance strung out types and often with chips on their shoulder too and lacking many of the main feminine things guys love . lt's nothing to do with the intimidated line they like to crow about just bc men don't seem to like her. The barmaid on the other hand even if that's all she knows so what , she'll still probably be twice as feminine, warm, caring , better companion, better to talk too understand you better, have a nicer tastes , there's a million things guys can pick at 100 paces with women they aren't aware of . And that's the funny thing too , the barmaid probably is well aware of it but the degree or business type won't have a clue.

 

 

 

 

 

[hotpotato]

53 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Perhaps in your town, but not in general. At least not genetically. Women do put in more effort and have “cheats” like makeup, push-up bras, eyebrow shaping, and hair coloring. But the most attractive men will pair up with the most attractive women.

I doubt that! I seen the same things in bigger cities, like gay men being very much more into fitness. Men are also free to get cheats like fixing their teeth, but they often dont. Plenty of women dont need push up bras. Most women have at least one thing about them that is sexy and beautiful. There are plenty of women with soso faces but are stacked elsewhere. Ive seen some ok looking super dorky women with insane hourglass figures. Push up bras dont so much anyway unless you already have something to put in them (this is coming from a former flattie). Anyone can dye their hair. That's not a cheat specific to women. 

I guess that's the issue I have with a lot if straight men. Many could put in the effort but dont. Men dont naturally have the sex appeal women usually get from puberty. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by hotpotato

[chillii]

Former flattie that's funny, sorry. You know flat chicks turn me on , true story. Yet weirdly never had one but instead l always wound up with every guys envy . Probably if l wanted those too l would've wound up with flatties - Murphys law haha.

Edited April 4, 2021 by chillii

[Weezy1973]

41 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

I guess that's the issue I have with a lot if straight men. Many could put in the effort but dont. Men dont naturally have the sex appeal women usually get from puberty. 

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter. Men are being compared to other men, not to women. The most attractive men (however you rate them is relevant) match up with the most attractive women and so on down the line. Perhaps in your small town the average looking men that those beautiful women chose were the best of the bunch.

[hotpotato]

26 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter. Men are being compared to other men, not to women. The most attractive men (however you rate them is relevant) match up with the most attractive women and so on down the line. Perhaps in your small town the average looking men that those beautiful women chose were the best of the bunch.

I see what you're saying, and I disagree. I learned that wasnt true long ago. People, especially men, often do not want their looksmatch. 

I could agree that maybe someone chose the best looking men out of the not the best selection. Which is what I'm saying in the first place, there are not that many beautiful men so women will have to date down and pick what they can. There arent enough  beautiful men for every beautiful woman. 

As far as men compared to other men, I can understand having to pick a man who is more attractive than others even if best actually not that good looking, so it's like picking the lesser evil for lack of better terms. 

Fyi I live in a small town but I've been all over the country. I don't recall seeing anything much different. It's the same ole. If you see a good looking man, he might be gay. 

 

[hotpotato]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

Former flattie that's funny, sorry. You know flat chicks turn me on , true story. Yet weirdly never had one but instead l always wound up with every guys envy . Probably if l wanted those too l would've wound up with flatties - Murphys law haha.

I never met a man who liked it. Men who like flatties usually like 80 lb women. I'm glad that life is long gone. I can make fun of myself now lol. 

[chillii]

Haaa good for you. Nah l'm not usual in any way shape or form never even met another guy that likes flat either but nope 80lbs dunno what that is in kg but it sounds anorexic. l do actually like naturally slim though , naturally slim isn't skin n bone just a light build.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, hotpotato said:

I could agree that maybe someone chose the best looking men out of the not the best selection. Which is what I'm saying in the first place, there are not that many beautiful men so women will have to date down and pick what they can. There arent enough  beautiful men for every beautiful woman. 

 

Ok, but the most beautiful women are still matching with the most beautiful men available to them right? If you’re saying beautiful women are passing over the most attractive men for average or ugly men, that’s a different story. 

 

1 hour ago, hotpotato said:

If you see a good looking man, he might be gay. 

 

It sounds like you find the metrosexual look very attractive, and fair enough. But many women aren’t attracted to high maintenance men. This is probably even more true in small towns.

[MsJayne]

16 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Because we are biologically programmed to want to plant our seed in the most attractive women we can find

I agree with this, but it's more a case of planting their seed in the most attractive available female, and also, as soon as that seed is planted the speed at which many men change their mind about the female's attractiveness is quite alarming.  Of course it also works both ways, guys lose their luster when they're revealed as a poor provider, again biological programming, women home in on the male who can provide and protect.  Depends how switched on people are to those biological motivations, their social  conditioning, etc. The more evolved a man is, as in educated, cultured, sophisticated, the less likely he is to keep long-term company with a woman who's good looking but lacks intelligence, but the more likely he is to consciously seek a partner who is both intelligent and good looking. Other factors, such as self esteem, also play a huge role, because the guy with low self esteem may be very good looking, and intelligent, but his self perception stops him from pursuing the woman of his dreams and instead he settles for a partner he perceives as on his level.  

In answer to the OP's question - no, looks actually don't count that much, it's confidence and self perception that counts. Beauty is fleeting, brains and personality are forever. A less attractive woman can pretty herself up with makeup, cosmetic procedures, etc, but an unintelligent and uninteresting woman is stuck with being dull no matter what she looks like. You mention Anna Nicole Smith, and she's actually a great example of the illusion of what beauty is. The reason Anna became famous through Playboy is that she looked like an inflatable sex doll, so she met the requirements for men's fantasies, but in fact she was just averagely good looking. If you took away the makeup, the hair dye, and the simpering fool act, you'd be left with an average-looking woman with huge tatas, a thick neck, too-big gums, and tragic emotional problems. It's about perception. Also, a man looking for sex is going to have a different agenda than a man looking for a relationship, so you should completely ignore what that guy told you with his cute barmaid story, he clearly hasn't yet encountered the woman who looks like a goddess but is actually a psycho, but he will if he keeps that attitude up.  

[hotpotato]

6 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Ok, but the most beautiful women are still matching with the most beautiful men available to them right? If you’re saying beautiful women are passing over the most attractive men for average or ugly men, that’s a different story. 

 

It sounds like you find the metrosexual look very attractive, and fair enough. But many women aren’t attracted to high maintenance men. This is probably even more true in small towns.

Some of the most beautiful women I know are with average men or men I find to be gremlin-ish. They are by no means beautiful men. (These are big city women, too, in some cases.) Likening said before, beauty is more common in women than men so some will have to settle as far as looks. Finding a beauty, sexy woman is extremely easy. 

I'm sure these women found something else to love about these men, bc the guys oftentimes arent lookers by a longshot. 

In fact, not long ago I found a dating coach who flat out said men are unattractive and judging then by their looks will cause issues, essentially. Many men are very soso. I'd even say that when men are unattractive, they are unattractive in a very hardcore way. 

Even men I talk to irl admit that men have a lot more to choose from as far as beauty good looks.

If metrosexual you mean men who stay in shape, then yes. I'm not into dad boss. 

[chillii]

12 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

I agree with this, but it's more a case of planting their seed in the most attractive available female, and also, as soon as that seed is planted the speed at which many men change their mind about the female's attractiveness is quite alarming.  Of course it also works both ways, guys lose their luster when they're revealed as a poor provider, again biological programming, women home in on the male who can provide and protect.  Depends how switched on people are to those biological motivations, their social  conditioning, etc. The more evolved a man is, as in educated, cultured, sophisticated, the less likely he is to keep long-term company with a woman who's good looking but lacks intelligence, but the more likely he is to consciously seek a partner who is both intelligent and good looking. Other factors, such as self esteem, also play a huge role, because the guy with low self esteem may be very good looking, and intelligent, but his self perception stops him from pursuing the woman of his dreams and instead he settles for a partner he perceives as on his level.  

In answer to the OP's question - no, looks actually don't count that much, it's confidence and self perception that counts. Beauty is fleeting, brains and personality are forever. A less attractive woman can pretty herself up with makeup, cosmetic procedures, etc, but an unintelligent and uninteresting woman is stuck with being dull no matter what she looks like. You mention Anna Nicole Smith, and she's actually a great example of the illusion of what beauty is. The reason Anna became famous through Playboy is that she looked like an inflatable sex doll, so she met the requirements for men's fantasies, but in fact she was just averagely good looking. If you took away the makeup, the hair dye, and the simpering fool act, you'd be left with an average-looking woman with huge tatas, a thick neck, too-big gums, and tragic emotional problems. It's about perception. Also, a man looking for sex is going to have a different agenda than a man looking for a relationship, so you should completely ignore what that guy told you with his cute barmaid story, he clearly hasn't yet encountered the woman who looks like a goddess but is actually a psycho, but he will if he keeps that attitude up.  

 

Don't need science or seeds or fancy explanations to explain why a man might love a good lookin woman or the next and next they just make you wanna - well ahhhh, no need to elaborate on that one.  Lust , pure and very very simple.

[Weezy1973]

17 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

Some of the most beautiful women I know are with average men or men I find to be gremlin-ish.

This is anecdotal. I’ve seen mismatches both ways, but by far the rule is that like attracts like. It’s called the matching phenomenon and has been researched a lot and the results have been replicated many times over. I’ll take objective research over anecdotal opinion any day. You can Google the term and look at the research for yourself. And the research implies that looks are equally valued by both men and women.

 

21 minutes ago, hotpotato said:

If metrosexual you mean men who stay in shape, then yes. I'm not into dad boss. 

By metrosexual I mean men that are into fashion, spend a lot of money on beauty products and getting their hairstyled, might wear a bit of makeup, would get Botox etc. 

 

[dramafreezone]

20 hours ago, Katkats7777 said:

Are good looks the only thing the counts to women, not how "smart" they are or if they have an Ivy League degree? Its like every time people first see someone they mention, "oh, how pretty" she is and I've seen how some people treat unattractive women, they don't treat them very nicely. And it doesn't seem to matter if they are smart, because they only thing people focus on women is they way she looks...its like what's the point of women studying and going off to college, if women are playboy playmate hot, then they will make a career out of that and who cares if she is dumb? Look at anna nicole smith for example, she had an 8th grade education, pretty sure she wasn't book smart only relied on her looks. 

Also, even nerdy geeky guys who are not that attractive will most likely choose the hot women regardless of her education? Right. At least that's what this guy told me one time, he said "everything is based on looks, they don't care about college education, if a man see's a cute bartender he will pursue her, of course she can't be trash." I'm like..ok...

Nearly every man walking the face of this earth will date a pretty woman if he can.  You just have to deal with that.

Does that mean that only looks matter?  Of course not.  But most guys are going to date the prettiest woman that they can.

We're all hypergamous.  We all want to date up.  Men are far more simple in that it's just looks the majority of the time with us.  Women are not different in that they date up too, just about whatever she values.    If it's status, she wants the highest status guy she can get, regardless of her own status.  if she values looks, she wants the hottest guy regardless of her own looks.  If she likes swag, charisma, whatever you want to call it, she wants the guy that has the most of that, regardless of her own.

If a man finds intelligence sexy, then that guy will go for the smart woman over the more physically attractive woman.  But you're angry because you think men make a choice to be attracted to beautiful women.  It's ingrained in men to be attracted to women with pretty faces, nice hips, large chest, because those are physical traits ideal for child-bearing.   

Don't take instincts that were developed over 200,000 years ago personally.  It is what it is, and you just have to have the confidence to know that there is someone out there that will value what you bring to the table.  Some guys do primarily value qualities other than looks.  You just have to find him.

But if the majority of men valued intelligence over looks, this species could not survive.  We weren't put on earth to do anything but reproduce, and what most of us are attracted to is in service of that, reproduction.

Edited April 4, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Happy Lemming]

18 hours ago, Dis said:

Guys are visual beings and I'm sure many people won't like this answer but it's true

 

Yes...  I met my girlfriend in an apartment complex pool, she was wearing this cute blue bikini, that showed off her body, perfectly.  This was by design, as she had shopped and shopped and shopped for the perfect bikini.  She knew that in order to garner the attention of men, she had to make the most of her assets.

After chit-chatting with her for a few minutes, I realized she was highly intelligent, as well.  My girlfriend was an English teacher (prior to retirement) and an avid reader. 

First she got my attention with her looks, then kept it with her intelligence.

Had she been unattractive, I doubt I would have swam up to her and introduced myself in the first place.

For the record, I do think I'm the average male with average looks.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Most people are attracted to beauty in all of its forms whether human or inanimate. Most of us love a beautiful ocean at sunrise, mid day or sunset! We love beautiful homes, beautiful flowers, etc. Loving beauty isn't a form of being superficial.

On the surface life doesn't seem fair. And yet, there are beautiful people who have been born into bad circumstances, abusive families, etc. So that when you have a relationship with the person you soon want to get out of it. Those people are at a disadvantage that a beautiful person born into a loving home has.

I think if all things could be measured, it wouldn't surprise me if life weren't very fair. For, I've met people who aren't physically beautiful who seem so after getting to know them. Some have an aura around them that just makes you feel good. It's a gift! Just as beauty is.

You see, life is not the same for everyone. The universe is not PC, no matter how much we've come to believe it can be made so.

The best we all can do is to be the best we can be in every sense of the word. And quit being concerned and/or jealous that others seem to have more than we do. That will get you no where.

Plus, there are many homely people who have found deep abiding love whereas there are also beautiful people who have experienced heartache after heartache.

 

[WWYD]

I wouldn't say any of my ex's have been stunning, but they do have a 'look' or feature that I found attractive. My most recent ex had a smile that just lit up any room (even though she looked miserable most of the time), but at certain angles she wasn't particularly impressive. And the previous to her was the sweetest thing, but not necessarily what any objective viewer might describe as 'pretty'.

The only thing that is a non-negotiable for me is that any potential gf understands the basic principle of calories in v calories out. That's a polite way of saying I'm not a fan of big girls.

[WWYD]

41 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Nearly every man walking the face of this earth will date a pretty woman if he can.  You just have to deal with that.

Does that mean that only looks matter?  Of course not.  But most guys are going to date the prettiest woman that they can.

We're all hypergamous.  We all want to date up.  Men are far more simple in that it's just looks the majority of the time with us.  Women are not different in that they date up too, just about whatever she values.    If it's status, she wants the highest status guy she can get, regardless of her own status.  if she values looks, she wants the hottest guy regardless of her own looks.  If she likes swag, charisma, whatever you want to call it, she wants the guy that has the most of that, regardless of her own.

If a man finds intelligence sexy, then that guy will go for the smart woman over the more physically attractive woman.  But you're angry because you think men make a choice to be attracted to beautiful women.  It's ingrained in men to be attracted to women with pretty faces, nice hips, large chest, because those are physical traits ideal for child-bearing.   

Don't take instincts that were developed over 200,000 years ago personally.  It is what it is, and you just have to have the confidence to know that there is someone out there that will value what you bring to the table.  Some guys do primarily value qualities other than looks.  You just have to find him.

But if the majority of men valued intelligence over looks, this species could not survive.  We weren't put on earth to do anything but reproduce, and what most of us are attracted to is in service of that, reproduction.

 

Personally, I'm just a little bit offended by this. I'm attracted by personality and character first. I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone I wasn't physically attracted to, but that's entirely different to going after a 'pretty woman' just because she's attractive.

 

 

[dramafreezone]

9 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

Most people are attracted to beauty in all of its forms whether human or inanimate. Most of us love a beautiful ocean at sunrise, mid day or sunset! We love beautiful homes, beautiful flowers, etc. Loving beauty isn't a form of being superficial.

On the surface life doesn't seem fair. And yet, there are beautiful people who have been born into bad circumstances, abusive families, etc. So that when you have a relationship with the person you soon want to get out of it. Those people are at a disadvantage that a beautiful person born into a loving home has.

I think if all things could be measured, it wouldn't surprise me if life weren't very fair. For, I've met people who aren't physically beautiful who seem so after getting to know them. Some have an aura around them that just makes you feel good. It's a gift! Just as beauty is.

You see, life is not the same for everyone. The universe is not PC, no matter how much we've come to believe it can be made so.

The best we all can do is to be the best we can be in every sense of the word. And quit being concerned and/or jealous that others seem to have more than we do. That will get you no where.

Plus, there are many homely people who have found deep abiding love whereas there are also beautiful people who have experienced heartache after heartache.

 

In short, everyone has their own struggles.  We all have something we're going through.

I've heard accounts of beautiful women having insecurities about people only dating them because of their looks, or not being taken seriously in professional settings, or receiving favor only because of their looks.  Those gripes may seem like no big deal to those of us that have never been considered ultra-attractive but I do believe that it's a real thing for them.  I could see how it could foster a lack of trust in people in general.

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, WWYD said:

 

Personally, I'm just a little bit offended by this. I'm attracted by personality and character first. I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone I wasn't physically attracted to, but that's entirely different to going after a 'pretty woman' just because she's attractive.

 

 

That's ok.  It's my opinion.  It doesn't mean I'm right, but it's what I think.

I do think it's malarkey to say that you're attracted to personality and character first.  You can't look at someone say, "wow, I bet they have a lot of character and personality," can you? 

So if we accept that premise that looks have to meet a minimum prerequisite, then it's the most important factor, because she could have personality and character in spades, but you're not even going to consider those other factors if the looks aren't there.

Edited April 5, 2021 by dramafreezone