Did she cheat on our anniversary?

[Marc878]

Just beware of marriage counseling. You have less than a 50% chance of getting a decent one. This field is full of morons that can cause more harm than good.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Marc878

[Marc878]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

Ok, so just stay quiet and pay attention.

Pay attention to her phone/computer usage and where she spends any time away from you.

Check your phone bill on line. 

[Jkline]

13 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

Just beware of marriage counseling. You have less than a 50% chance of getting a decent one. This field is full of morons that can cause more harm than good.

 

Yeah we brought our daughter to ADHD counseling which was a complete joke and lasted all or two sessions.  She’s just energetic and sassy!!  I have a feeling I would be disappointed in the marriage counseling process.  

[mark clemson]

^^ ok you may be right and Marc878 brings up a fair point, particularly WRT infidelity situations (although I do think that 50% estimate may be a bit high). But you'll need to consider how/whether you can really broach not only this issue, but all the things that may be going on beyond that in terms of emotions, mutual respect, probably some stuff from the past that has been rugswept, and anything else that starts coming up about what led to this event without it getting out of hand/blowing up in your faces. Which is the point of a "referee".

Clearly you've tried to communicate about it (and in fact have communicated about it) but still feel insecurity. Maybe you want to live with that long term, but if not, I'm not sure how you'd actually address it fully without some CC. As you have found out, it's not something that fades easily (for some) unless you have sufficient "proof" nothing happened (which is probably not forthcoming). Possibly a CC or IC would have techniques to help you address this and/or make other substantive improvements in your marriage, possibly you'd be disappointed.

[Marc878]

Your problem is you just don’t know. One thing you’ve found out is this crap doesn’t go away.

If she did cheat and the probably is high (it’s possible she didn’t but under the circumstances not probable) she’ll never tell you. Which puts you in a perpetual state of limbo. 

You have some thinking to do. Can you live with this permanently? Life is short and you won’t get it back.
 

 

[Interstellar]

So she spent time with another man after you just celebrated your anniversary. Whether something happened or not she still chose to meet a complete stranger and go and hang out with him. Shows how much she cares about her vow: for better or worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do you part.

[Jkline]

43 minutes ago, Marc878 said:

Your problem is you just don’t know. One thing you’ve found out is this crap doesn’t go away.

If she did cheat and the probably is high (it’s possible she didn’t but under the circumstances not probable) she’ll never tell you. Which puts you in a perpetual state of limbo. 

You have some thinking to do. Can you live with this permanently? Life is short and you won’t get it back.
 

 

That’s the kicker, I’ve thought about it a lot and it’s the not knowing that’s the worst.  If something did happen and she was honest about it I think there’s a path for recovering from that.  It’s the doubt and the unknown that you can’t recover from.  I learned along time ago to trust my gut and it’s always been right and from day one this didn’t sit right.  I’m not so arrogant to believe I can’t be wrong but I don’t believe I am.  What’s the path forward though, keep prying, keep asking questions and not letting it go?  I don’t know. Even if there was no physical affair it’s still a betrayal to me.  I just appreciate the opinions offered and I’ll try to move forward, not sure exactly what that means.   

[trident_2020]

Be proactive. If she cheated there's a fair chance she'll remain in contact with this guy.

Voice activated recorder under the front seat of her car, keyboard monitor to grab passwords to her protected accounts, as others said, check for unusual phone activity, etc.

Don't rely on her coming clean, that almost never happens on it's own.

 

[lana-banana]

Joint counseling is a good idea. It might not help much, but at the very least you'll learn some tips for communicating better.

I don't know whether she cheated. I do know a polygraph absolutely will not help. If she has shown zero signs of dishonesty to you then I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt. You are better off investing in ways to sincerely rebuild and recommit to your marriage. If she is lying or deceitful, you'll find out soon enough. 

[ExpatInItaly]

13 hours ago, Jkline said:

 I never once said she was unattractive or that I wasn’t interested in her.

Right, but that's not at all how it's going to feel to the recipient of a comment about losing attraction. I think you need to reflect on why you decided to bring this up at that moment, on your anniversary, and what other issues exist in your marriage. Obviously all was not well. What sort of problems had you to been having prior to this?

To be clear, her response to that is unacceptable. No question about that. But as to whether or not she actually cheated, it could really go either way. I too would have a hard time believing that nothing more than a cheek-brush happened. I would also be very concerned about the general poor judgement on the other matters, too: drinking and driving, and going home with a strange man (all alone, to an isolated area, no less)

If you don't trust her on this, well, there's not a lot of hope for the marriage. Some suggest a polygraph. Only you can decide if you're willing to go that route. The mere mention of it might elicit more information from her, a so-called "parking lot confession", which people apparently sometimes offer up before faced the prospect of being caught in their lie. 

Does she know you're still struggling with this?

 

[elaine567]

15 hours ago, Jkline said:

It was about six months ago on our eleventh  wedding anniversary night.  My wife and I were at a wedding where I honestly drank too much and made a few comments about how I felt like some of the attraction had been lost and that I wanted to work on getting that back.  I’m sure it didn’t come out as well as I had hoped and I told her I was still attracted to her but didn’t want to fall into that rut.  Completely the wrong time and place for that conversation and I totally own that.

You made an unexpected and unprovoked attack on your wife on your anniversary... 
She is not going to forget that in a hurry... Women in general are romantic souls, anniversaries mean a lot.
The fact you ruined it by bringing up the loss of attraction, will have likely wounded her to the core.
Most women thrive on being seen as attractive and sexy.
She retaliated by dumping you back home in your inebriated state and proceeded to try and enjoy the rest of her evening. 
She would have been hurt, sad, disappointed, humiliated and mad as hell I guess.

Did she cheat? it depends on her personality, her morals and how she views your marriage.
If she feels unhappy, neglected, taken for granted in general or already had one foot out the door, or was very drunk and upset/angry, then it may not be a leap to  accept the attentions of the farmer, but if sober and loves you a lot, then  her core values and morals may have prevented her from going through with it.
You are now obsessed with the thought of her cheating, but the other problem you now face is a wife who is hurt, and will have no doubt built up anger and resentment towards you.
Women tend to have long memories. Do not make the mistake of thinking she will just forget this incident, she won't.
These "simmering" women are often loose cannons, capable of anything.

BTW, why do you think the attraction has gone from your marriage?

[Caauug]

7 hours ago, Jkline said:

 If something did happen and she was honest about it I think there’s a path for recovering from that.  It’s the doubt and the unknown that you can’t recover from.

She's not likely going to tell you the truth if she did have an affair... If it's a one off (ONS) she will likely hide that for as long as she can. The more she sees you dig the more she will clam up and hide anything else you might be interested in... Even if it comes down to one of you heading out the door never to return, the truth may never come out about that night.

She holds the power, she has information you need to know. If the information will have a detrimental effect on your relationship with her she will not want to relinquish that power. There is only one way to get that power back, but you don't want that.... 

Get some STD and STI checks.... If you have kids, DNA tests to make sure they are yours. If it's happened once, it's happened before...

Your gut doesn't lie, it sees more than what you want to see.... 

[d0nnivain]

Do not demand that your wife take a polygraph.  If that is how little trust you have, just be done.  You can ask but you can't insist. 

 

14 hours ago, Jkline said:

 When a couple gets in an argument is it justified to run off and seek attention from others and stay out all night with a stranger???  Maybe I’m old school but I didn’t think so.

Justified, probably not. Understandable & forgivable yes.  

 

9 hours ago, Jkline said:

 I have a feeling I would be disappointed in the marriage counseling process.  

You have to find the right counselor.  Some are great; others are quacks.  

 

8 hours ago, Jkline said:

That’s the kicker, I’ve thought about it a lot and it’s the not knowing that’s the worst.  I

The problem is you are disposed not to believe her.  Even if nothing other than drinking & talking happened, you want to believe the worst.  You aren't satisfied with her denials.  This is where some people insist on a polygraph which is far more expensive then you imagine.  Even if she passes you won't believe her.  You either have to trust  & let it go or be done because it's eating you alive  

[Jkline]

I won’t be demanding nor requesting a polygraph.  I don’t like the idea of it coming to that.  I may be disposed to believe the worst but ultimately want to believe her more than anything or at least just get a reason why that makes some sense.  Her and I will keep talking and hopefully get through it.  I do believe that it was a one off situation. I don’t believe she is seeing him still.  I think that night was a lapse in judgement and went to far.  I agree that if it was a ONS she will be inclined to hide it til the end.

[d0nnivain]

Look at it this way. . . the awful combination that led to this unfortunate night -- you being drunk & saying something insulting -- is unlikely to reoccur so I hope you can get past the one off thing.  

Do tell yourself to believe her that nothing happened.  Even if the other guy tried or if their lips made contact, I genuinely believe your wife set out to prove to herself that she could still pick up a guy not that she wanted to do anything with him once she got the little ego boost.  Wanting attention, wanting to be flirted with, wanting to feel sexy is vastly different than wanting to have sex with somebody or cheating on your spouse.  Flattery & fornication are not the same things.  

[Jkline]

9 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Look at it this way. . . the awful combination that led to this unfortunate night -- you being drunk & saying something insulting -- is unlikely to reoccur so I hope you can get past the one off thing.  

Do tell yourself to believe her that nothing happened.  Even if the other guy tried or if their lips made contact, I genuinely believe your wife set out to prove to herself that she could still pick up a guy not that she wanted to do anything with him once she got the little ego boost.  Wanting attention, wanting to be flirted with, wanting to feel sexy is vastly different than wanting to have sex with somebody or cheating on your spouse.  Flattery & fornication are not the same things.  

If only she could express that.  She told me she went out to see if she still had it which is inline with your perspective.  I asked her why she didn’t just come home after closing time and she said she’s chatty and likes animals which is why she stayed at his place for so long.  I called bs on that.  It’s that answer that makes no sense to me.  Plenty of chatty woman who like animals, not a lot who go home with a stranger at 130 in the morning and stay until 4.  I’m not so sure she’s capable of articulating her feelings very well.  If she was feeling what you stated and expressed it that way then ok, I get that. Don’t agree with the methods but I understand the thought process.  

[BaileyB]

13 hours ago, Jkline said:

Yes she’s been very apologetic.  She admitted it was a mistake.  It’s the first time anything like this has happened in basically 14 years together

I suppose that goes to show you just how hurt she was by your comments. 

Have you considered marriage counselling? It is possible to come through this hurdle stronger, with better communication, more trust, and recommitted to each other but it sounds like you both have some work to do to heal this. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by BaileyB

[Crazelnut]

Please don't listen to the people telling you marriage counseling is a huge waste of time and money. You are exactly the couple who could benefit. You have trust issues and she has resentment / acting out issues. A therapist could help you both work through their effects on your marriage. 

I also think people are coming down too hard on your wife as if she were the only villain here. What you did to her ON YOUR ANNIVERSARY was horrible. It was incredibly cruel. Had I been in her shoes, I'd have been absolutely crushed. And to top it off, you were sloppy passed out drunk on your anniversary. Doesn't matter if you claim it was a one-off. It shows complete disregard for the marriage and her. You caused this whole scenario, and you need to cut your wife some slack. Her response was immature, for sure, but that doesn't mean she banged the dude. I know from personal experience that the need for attention and the need to feel attractive doesn't have to lead to having sex with the person paying you attention. Sure, she wanted him to want her, but that doesn't mean she had sex with him. It's the DESIRE, not the act, that she was looking for -- again, thanks to your thoughtless words and behavior.

[d0nnivain]

43 minutes ago, Jkline said:

I asked her why she didn’t just come home after closing time and she said she’s chatty and likes animals which is why she stayed at his place for so long.  I called bs on that.  It’s that answer that makes no sense to me.  Plenty of chatty woman who like animals, not a lot who go home with a stranger at 130 in the morning and stay until 4.  I’m not so sure she’s capable of articulating her feelings very well.  If she was feeling what you stated and expressed it that way then ok, I get that. Don’t agree with the methods but I understand the thought process.  

It is BS but it's a face & marriage saving lie.  When she went home with that guy after having a few drinks (& her thinking was impaired) she probably had it in her heart to outright cheat. . .as in I'll show him (you) who's not attractive.  But when she got there & realized the enormity of what she was about to do -- throw her marriage away in a fit of anger -- she backed off.  The guy was probably a nice person who she enjoyed chatting with so she hung out, talked, sobered up & came home.  

She's never gonna tell you that nor should you force it out of her.  Once you hear that "confession" from her own lips it will replay in your head FOREVER & completely destroy your marriage .  If you go with what physically happened -- nothing meaningful, or of marriage ending significance (as long as it's not repeated & she cuts all contact with this guy) -- there is a path forward to rebuilding trust.  

Actually I suggest you fork over an apology gift like lingerie or something else sexy, a romantic weekend away or a stay-cation with the kids out of the house -- so you can reassure her that you still have the hots for her.  Then get yourselves to MC.  Without professional intervention, you won't get past this.  Pretend your marriage is your car or your roof or a broken arm -- you are probably not going to fix those all alone without professional assistance. Your marriage is no different.  

[Marc878]

18 hours ago, Jkline said:

 

She brought him home and said he offered to show her around the farm and she stayed there til 4:15 or so.  

While it’s possible nothing happened alone with another man at his place for hours with alcohol involved. Sorry but not probable. 
 

This was a decision/choice she made. If she’d hurt your feelings would you have done the same?

[Marc878]

Trying to nice her back or doing the “pick me dance” after she spent hours alone with another man at his place would be rewarding her behavior. Do you want more of this behavior? 
 

A huge amount of marriage counselors are notorious quacks who rugsweep and all this does is lead to long term problems. 
 

If you go that route you’d better research the hell out of what you’re signing up for. They aren’t gods. 
 

 

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Jkline said:

Do people really do that?  I’m not being sarcastic just curious.

It's a common meme on other specific infidelity site/forums. Although useless, even suggesting does a lot more harm than good, whether someone divorces, reconciles, cheated or not.

[Marc878]

I’ve seen the polygraph used. If you have no other alternatives it maybe you’re only option. If you want a shot at the truth. Many end up with a parking lot confession outside the polygraph office. 
 

This is why.
Someone who picks up a stranger at a bar, goes home with him for hours for the most part will NEVER tell you the truth. People lie a lot in these situations. Your gut is screaming at you. Try living with that long term. Rugweeping may work for some. Can you live with this long term.

Plus the next time you hurt her feelings will you get it again?

An affair may destroy a marriage. Lies will destroy a marriage because it causes long term distrust and damage.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Marc878

[smackie9]

I think at that very point of you telling her of your dismay (on your anniversary!!!!) she thought her marriage had come to an end. She was distraught, vulnerable, feeling destroyed.

You got a kick to your ego...how could she even look at another man!! Ya but what kind of man were you that night?

IMO your words and behavior were divorce worthy.

Edited April 8, 2021 by smackie9

[Jkline]

Wow, I love how easily people throw around divorce as an option.  It’s a sad reflection of our times and attitudes towards commitment.