My Friendship Dilemma!

[BaileyB]

This is not a good situation for you... this woman has got BAGGAGE and IF she ever was to leave her husband, the reality of the situation would absolutely destroy the fantasy you have created here. 

I feel for you - divorce is hard, getting older is hard, and loneliness is painfully hard to deal with sometimes. You have used this woman for your own emotional support and when two people with these kinds of emotional needs come together - it does not a healthy relationship make! 

If I was you, I would begin to distance myself from this woman and look around for other ways to engage in life, build new relationships, and find the companionship and emotional support you seek. There are PLENTY of women available to date that don’t come with the complications of a husband, five lazy and dependent children, anxiety and depression and a whole host of other emotional and mental health issues (which based on what you have shared, seems to be the case for this woman). 

If you want to find a healthy relationship for yourself, you need to start by finding an available and healthy partner. This ain’t it. I’m sorry. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by BaileyB

[Jeff01]

@BaileyB But just like I told the other person, I'm in too deep, and I love her with all my heart and soul, and I can't just turn that off, and stop it, like water at the faucet. I love her so much, and she is all I can think about 24/7. 

[dramafreezone]

27 minutes ago, Jeff01 said:

@BaileyB But just like I told the other person, I'm in too deep, and I love her with all my heart and soul, and I can't just turn that off, and stop it, like water at the faucet. I love her so much, and she is all I can think about 24/7. 

No woman that you're not married to should have this type of hold over you.

I think this attachment to this friend is a way for you to not get back out there.  She's already committed, she's made her choice (it's not you), so there's no chance of her rejecting you, and you don't have to move on with your life, which are healthy actions.

[Wiseman2]

54 minutes ago, Jeff01 said:

I'm in too deep

No you're not. You just want to be. You latched onto her after your horrible marriage/divorce and have an unhealthy attachment. That's not love at all. 

It's your depression/anxiety acting up again. The obsessions, the ruminating, etc.

It's also a way for you to live in a fantasy world, yet stay numb and surrounded by barbed wire from real relationships. 

[MsJayne]

7 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

She told me that she was upset because she got a letter from her health insurance company, saying that they won't cover liposuction because she doesn't need it.

Did this ring an alarm bell?  It just smacks of such self-obsession and excessive vanity, and reading the rest of that post I very much get the feeling that this is a once-gorgeous woman who's always traded on her looks as currency, and who's not coping with the aging process. It's one thing liking to keep yourself in good shape, quite another to obsess over it, especially to the extent of frequently fishing for compliments and reassurance and wanting unnecessary cosmetic procedures. Sounds like she's empty and using you to top up her constant need for affirmation, which would become extremely exhausting if you were around her all the time. Something I find disturbing about this is that surely her husband must be aware that she's so unhappy, and her kids, other family and friends, or does she alter her behaviour and attitudes in front of them? She clearly needs a mental health professional. 

[basil67]

To be honest, I'm struggling to see why you love her.  With all that attention seeking self loathing, she sounds extraordinarily self absorbed.  I'd struggle even to be a friend to a person who carried on like this.   

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

To be honest, I'm struggling to see why you love her.  With all that attention seeking self loathing, she sounds extraordinarily self absorbed.  I'd struggle even to be a friend to a person who carried on like this.   

Me too. 

4 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

I'm in too deep, and I love her with all my heart and soul, and I can't just turn that off, and stop it, like water at the faucet. I love her so much, and she is all I can think about 24/7. 

If this is how you feel, that a problem. Don’t confuse love with codependency. 

[basil67]

On 4/8/2021 at 10:24 PM, Jeff01 said:

She actually showed me pictures of Black and Blue bruises all over her legs!! I ask her what that is ( thinking that he is hitting her? ), but she tells me its from her being her on her hands and knees scrubbing the kitchen and bathroom floors every damn day, because if he comes home from work,and sees 1 spot of dirt on the floor, his angry, ugly outbursts start.

She says her knees hurt her so much from cleaning the kitchen floor 7 DAYS A WEEK, that she thinks she now needs knee surgery to relieve all the swelling in her knees!!

Jeff, have you ever cast a cynical eye over what she tells you?   Because this is BS.

Thing is, ever since the invention of a $5 mop, there has been no need to crawl around all the floors on hands and knees to clean them.   Or, if it's true that she's bruised from cleaning, the only reason she's crawling all over the floor is for some kind of attention seeking martyrdom.  Yeah sure, we all bend down and do a quick spot clean here and there...but bruised knees don't make any sense whatsoever.  

Now, if her crawling all over the floor doesn't make sense, why would what she says about his verbal abuse be true?   How can you believe anything she says?  

[BaileyB]

15 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

She told me that she was upset because she got a letter from her health insurance company, saying that they won't cover liposuction because she doesn't need it. Mind you, she is 80 pounds soaking wet,  long blond hair, gorgeous light brown eyes, a real looker! 

First things first, unless she is 4 foot 6, that is not a healthy weight for a woman. She is severely underweight if she is 80 pounds soaking wet. 

Also, her insurance company would have refused this request because it is an elective procedure. An insurance company is not going to pay for an elective plastic surgery - ever. 

[basil67]

40 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Also, her insurance company would have refused this request because it is an elective procedure. An insurance company is not going to pay for an elective plastic surgery - ever. 

And surely any reasonable person would know this.   This is up there with her not possessing a mop in terms of attention seeking lies.

[Jeff01]

Okay fine, it's over. I listened to you people here, and now my heart is shattered into a million pieces now. I still love her so much, but I lied to her and told her the opposite. Because of course we talked again last night from 12 midnight until 5 am in the morning!! She didn't take her sleep medication because she wanted to talk all night long. 

She was really upset at first because she worked in the yard all day long from 9 am in the morning until 9 pm at night cleaning up the yard, sweeping, planting flowers and vegetables, etc. Anyway, no one at all helped her, and everytime she went inside for something, the husband was sitting his behind on the couch all damn day with his feet in the air, and the kids were playing on their phones all day long. 

She says not 1 of them wanted to help "her old ugly face" with any of the yardwork, and she was exhausted and upset.

Okay, so here we go!!!! I tell her that "I want to be a good 'FRIEND' and I am here to help her out with whatever she needs, or will listen to her whenever she wants to talk". 

So I kept my feelings to myself, and just lied to the woman I love!! YAY!! I sure feel like a million bucks this morning! NOT!!!! 

And being such a good "Friend", I was listening to the suggestions from people here and was going to kindly ask her if she is seeing a therapist to help her with all her anxiety, depression, abusive husband, and lazy kids issues, but I didn't get the chance to, because we ended up having an all night discussion about Coronavirus, that I certainly don't want to get into here, because that's a whole other subject. 

But it was basically that because of my 3 adult children, 1 of them is a full-time college student, and how do I feel about if the college forces my adult child to get the vaccine in order to attend the college in person, because she doesn't know what to do about if her 5 kids schools force them to get the vaccine? 

Anyway, before we know it, it's 5 am already and we talked about it all through the night. I tell her she needs to go to bed, and get some sleep to take care of the kids in the morning, and she thanks me for being such a "good friend" for always supporting her, listening to her, and talking with her about these things. 

So now she thinks that I'm just a "good friend", because I told her that "I want to be a 'good friend' and support her". 

YAY, LIAR ME!!! Still stuck, just like when I started this post!! I love her with all my heart and soul, but can't tell her the truth about my real feelings, and lie right to her, by telling her I'm just a "supporting friend".  

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Jeff01
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[Jeff01]

10 hours ago, BaileyB said:

First things first, unless she is 4 foot 6, that is not a healthy weight for a woman. She is severely underweight if she is 80 pounds soaking wet. 

 

@BaileyB Yes, she told me that she weighs herself every single day on a scale, and on Friday she was 80 pounds. She keeps telling me that she is and looks like a "450 pound beached whale", or that she "has a big fat blubber whale body", and "she needs to get down to 60 pounds, even if she has to stop eating, so that she can look pretty again".  

And, no she isn't 4 foot 6, I think she is around 5 foot 4.

I think this has to do with the husband verbally abusing her all the time, and calling her derogatory names. 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Jeff01
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[glows]

Those talks need to stop. I don't mean to sound harsh but they're also having an impact on you. I wouldn't be comfortable being around someone who is constantly self-depreciating. This would grate on my nerves and I'd wonder what that person's agenda is. If she's down she does need to speak with professionals. 

Both of you aren't at the same phase or position. She's still married, you're divorced and single. Free yourself up to spend time with someone that's available or open to dating you. 

The way I think of it is this: Each interaction you invest with someone, each friendship or talk or conversation or every time you spend time with someone of your choosing, you are reaffirming, changing or altering the way you live your life and your direction. The more you keep adding of an influence, the greater that interaction makes more of you and hence you go down the path similar to that particular person or influence. 

I think you need to make new friends. This doesn't have to be big and dramatic and telling her that you see her as a friend doesn't mean it makes those long, unending conversations any more acceptable. They're probably not and won't ever be until she gets a grip on herself and her life or leaves her husband. 

 

[d0nnivain]

She is still unhealthy & underweight.  She has severe body image issues & may be anorexic.   Her desire to get down to 75 pounds proves that she is mentally ill.  This woman needs mental help from a qualified doctor not a new BF.  She is presently incapable of being a good partner to you.  Save yourself.   You are not qualified or capable of saving her she's much too damaged & you cannot love her through this.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by d0nnivain

[Jeff01]

8 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

She is still unhealthy & underweight.  She has severe body image issues & may be anorexic.   Her desire to get down to 75 pounds proves that she is mentally ill.  This woman needs mental help from a qualified doctor not a new BF.  She is presently incapable of being a good partner to you.  Save yourself.   You are not qualified or capable of saving her she's much too damaged & you cannot love her through this.  

@d0nnivain Actually she told me that she checks her weight every single day, and on Friday she was 80 pounds and looks like a "big fat 450 pound beached whale, and she needs to get down to 60 pounds in order to look pretty again". 

😥😪

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

 So now she thinks that I'm just a "good friend", because.....

That's what she's thought all along all through all these years. Nothing new. And you're still having marathon talks. Doesn't she work?

[d0nnivain]

4 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

@d0nnivain Actually she told me that she checks her weight every single day, and on Friday she was 80 pounds and looks like a "big fat 450 pound beached whale, and she needs to get down to 60 pounds in order to look pretty again". 

😥😪

That means she has a mental illness surrounding her weight.  I had anorexia so I know what I'm talking about.   

I'm telling you that this woman is in no position to date you.  Loving her will destroy you.  

[basil67]

@Jeff01 on top of her lies and attention seeking drama, how can you rationalise her thinking that it's OK to keep a friend up all night to listen to her moaning?   Seriously, would YOU ever do that to a person?

And out of curiosity, you're a dad and (I assume) have a job.  How are you managing on lack of sleep? 

[basil67]

7 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

She was really upset at first because she worked in the yard all day long from 9 am in the morning until 9 pm at night cleaning up the yard, sweeping, planting flowers and vegetables, etc. Anyway, no one at all helped her, and everytime she went inside for something, the husband was sitting his behind on the couch all damn day with his feet in the air, and the kids were playing on their phones all day long. 

Oh boo hoo!   This is just more drama and self victimisation.   She did not need to spend 12 hours and the garden (and I highly doubt it's true anyway).   Then she moans that the children she raised to be lazy and entitled didn't offer to help!     

How do you stand this!?

Edited April 11, 2021 by basil67

[dramafreezone]

8 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

Okay fine, it's over. I listened to you people here, and now my heart is shattered into a million pieces now. I still love her so much, but I lied to her and told her the opposite. Because of course we talked again last night from 12 midnight until 5 am in the morning!! She didn't take her sleep medication because she wanted to talk all night long. 

She was really upset at first because she worked in the yard all day long from 9 am in the morning until 9 pm at night cleaning up the yard, sweeping, planting flowers and vegetables, etc. Anyway, no one at all helped her, and everytime she went inside for something, the husband was sitting his behind on the couch all damn day with his feet in the air, and the kids were playing on their phones all day long. 

She says not 1 of them wanted to help "her old ugly face" with any of the yardwork, and she was exhausted and upset.

Okay, so here we go!!!! I tell her that "I want to be a good 'FRIEND' and I am here to help her out with whatever she needs, or will listen to her whenever she wants to talk". 

So I kept my feelings to myself, and just lied to the woman I love!! YAY!! I sure feel like a million bucks this morning! NOT!!!! 

And being such a good "Friend", I was listening to the suggestions from people here and was going to kindly ask her if she is seeing a therapist to help her with all her anxiety, depression, abusive husband, and lazy kids issues, but I didn't get the chance to, because we ended up having an all night discussion about Coronavirus, that I certainly don't want to get into here, because that's a whole other subject. 

But it was basically that because of my 3 adult children, 1 of them is a full-time college student, and how do I feel about if the college forces my adult child to get the vaccine in order to attend the college in person, because she doesn't know what to do about if her 5 kids schools force them to get the vaccine? 

Anyway, before we know it, it's 5 am already and we talked about it all through the night. I tell her she needs to go to bed, and get some sleep to take care of the kids in the morning, and she thanks me for being such a "good friend" for always supporting her, listening to her, and talking with her about these things. 

So now she thinks that I'm just a "good friend", because I told her that "I want to be a 'good friend' and support her". 

YAY, LIAR ME!!! Still stuck, just like when I started this post!! I love her with all my heart and soul, but can't tell her the truth about my real feelings, and lie right to her, by telling her I'm just a "supporting friend".  

 

Let me ask you this; what would you do if you got her?  She dumps the husband and runs away with you.  Now you have an anorexic divorcee, both of you have co-dependent tendencies.  You think this is the stuff that long lasting love is built on?  Tell me how you think this would play out if you actually got her.  I'm betting you've not thought this through.

Dude, you're not well, neither of you is well.  You have serious self-esteem issues if you think this is the best you can do.  Both of you need therapy far more than you need to be entering what would be a trainwreck of a relationship.

Edited April 11, 2021 by dramafreezone

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

Yes, she told me that she weighs herself every single day on a scale, and on Friday she was 80 pounds. She keeps telling me that she is and looks like a "450 pound beached whale", or that she "has a big fat blubber whale body", and "she needs to get down to 60 pounds, even if she has to stop eating, so that she can look pretty again".  

Then she needs to be hospitalized for an eating disorder. My google search tells me that a healthy weight for a woman who is 5 feet four inches tall is between 108 to 132 pounds. I don’t even know if it’s possible for a woman who is five foot four inches tall to weight sixty pounds and actually function. A woman who weighs eighty pounds will certainly not have the energy to work in the garden for twelve hours a day.

What’s further, if she is exhausted because she has worked like a day labourer for twelve hours outside in the sun, how is it possible that she then has the energy to talk with you on the phone from midnight until 5am? 

[Alpacalia]

9 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

Yes, she told me that she weighs herself every single day on a scale, and on Friday she was 80 pounds. She keeps telling me that she is and looks like a "450 pound beached whale", or that she "has a big fat blubber whale body", and "she needs to get down to 60 pounds, even if she has to stop eating, so that she can look pretty again".  

 

60 pounds? That is severely and dangerously underweight. You're either going to die or be force-fed in a hospital.

Aside from that, it's not your concern. Let her husband handle it.

[spiderowl]

I feel for you, OP.  You have known this woman a long time and obviously maintained a connection.  It is not surprising you have fallen in love with her.  People become friends in childhood or youth because they have things in common and their personalities work together.

You want her and she wants a close, loving friend to tell all her troubles to.  This has turned into an emotional affair where she is telling you all her marital troubles.  She may well be experiencing a very unhappy marriage and abuse.  It is up to her to deal with this - to stand up to her husband, to cope with it, or to divorce him.  She could divorce him: he is wealthy and she would be entitled to a reasonable amount of that wealth as judged by the courts.  She may well be thinking of separating from him and divorcing.

It would be best if she discussed all these things with someone independent of her, not to drag you into her emotional state at the moment.  She obviously trusts you and feels that she needs you.  Because you are so drawn to her, it is really difficult for you to resist.  However, bear in mind that she has got to go through several stages yet before she could become available as a free agent:

- to tell her husband she wants a separation and divorce and carry that out;

- to adjust to her new situation and probably go through court proceedings regarding finance and access to children (this could take a long time);

- to emotionally adjust to being a single woman again;

- to get to the stage where she feels emotionally ready to date again;

- to decide to date and meet different personalities to see how they get on;

- to become emotionally able to fall in love and build a relationship with one person.

All the above are emotional stages as well as practical ones.  Once she has been through these stages, she may well feel you are the one, her soul mate and that you are the one she wants to date and build a romantic relationship with.

The problem with leaping in before these stages are complete, is that you risk being the good friend, the prop, the emotional support while she gets out of her marriage and rebuilds her self-esteem.  You are already in this situation.  At the end of the day, she may not fall in love with you or feel you are 'the one'.  Who can know either way?  If she doesn't, you are then the guy who helps her along the road to finding freedom and her 'true love'.  I know this would not be good for you.

I agree with other posters than she has probably been spoilt in some ways: she has had money to spend on things other women could only dream of.  She has lived in a fantastic house and has probably not needed to worry about money or paying the bills.  In return, she has been putting up with a guy who treats her badly.  She has become enmeshed in that 'show life' culture of the wealthy where looks are everything and rich guys just replace their older wives with pretty, younger models.  It is not surprising then that she has become obsessed with how she looks.  It is possible that if she rebuilds her self-esteem and realises that life is not all about looks, that she too will forget about these things and will not hanker after expensive clothes and a rich lifestyle - hard to know.  You would need to bear in mind that she might prefer to have the wealth and status, on balance.

I think if you tell her you love her now, you risk adding a complicating factor into an already complicated situation.  Is she going to leave her husband or not, or is she just leaning on you for comfort while she stays and keeps the benefits of a rich husband?  I see no harm in telling her she is very special to you (as she has said to you).  Believe me, she already knows you love her.  You don't need to tell her.  She is seeking reassurance from you that she is attractive and, for someone in love with her, that must be torture for you.

I think in your situation, I would be tempted to tell her she means a lot to you but that this situation is too complicated.  Be straight with her and tell her that you would love a partner like her, but that you would want her to be out of the marriage and free to make her own choices.  As her friend, encourage her to seek counselling for herself (and her husband if she thinks this might help).  You can reassure her she is not ugly and that she is worrying about the wrong things regarding her looks and weight.  As a friend, you would have reassured her and you have no need to say anything more about that.

If at some point, you and she end up in a romantic relationship, you will be taking on board her children as well, so again, bear that in mind.  She will not appreciate you criticising them, however awful they might be.

Encourage her to go to counselling and tell her that she really needs to be talking to a relationship expert at this point rather than spending the night talking to you.  You don't need to be unkind, but it would be wise to distance yourself somewhat until she has sorted this out in her head.  I think you need to take several steps backwards while remaining her friend.  If necessary, tell her it is so you don't get too emotionally involved while she is sorting through her relationships.  She will know you adore her and, if she is a true friend to you, she will understand why you have to distance yourself at this point.  If anything, it will force her to face up to her marriage rather than just lean on someone else to make each day bearable.

Once she has sorted through all this, and she is a free woman, then there may be possibilities for you, but if you are the branch she uses to escape her husband, you could end up paying the price for not being the one she has actively 'chosen' once she has got over her current relationship.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by spiderowl

[Jeff01]

@spiderowl Hello, thank you for your very detailed and caring response. Yes, this is a woman that grew up a few streets away from me in my neighborhood, ,and someone that I was in Kindergarten, Elementary, Middle, and High school with, all through life. 

Anyway, what a night tonight!! Tonight around 8:30 pm she texts me and tells me that she needs me right away because it is an emergency!! She even leaves me a voicemail that she is crying on. 

I call her back to find out what the heck is going on, and I guess she was having a real bad day with her anxiety, and was having major anxiety, and a major panic attack. She said that she was crying, and shaking, having shortness of breath, and couldn't stop trembling.

I asked where her husband was, and she said that he stormed off to bed yelling at her "F**ck this, I ain't listening to this sh *t!!",  and he was all pissy because her anxiety and panic attack was disturbing him from sitting on the couch watching his Baseball game. 

I guess she was trying to take her anxiety medicine, but because she couldn't stop shaking,  she spilled all her anxiety medicine all over the kitchen stove. 

I suggested that she go lay down on her bed, take deep breathes, and try to relax, etc. Because she loves Sci-fi and Star Wars, I tried to get her mind off what she was going through, and I talked about "Family Guy" Star Wars, and I made little jokes, like "We're taking this couch", with Peter hanging onto couch as they flew through space, on the Millennium Falcon!! 

This actually worked, and after awhile my little "Family Guy: Star Wars" jokes helped to calm her down. We then talked about the news, weather, sports, and her flower and vegetable garden. 

Anyway, after talking for almost 7 hours straight, she was ready to go to sleep, but she wanted to thank me for helping her with her severe anxiety and severe panic attack earlier in the night. She told me that I am "her rock", and she said how I was "sent from God to help watch over her". 

So more confirmation that the husband obviously doesn't give a crap at all about her, and whether she lives or dies from her severe anxiety and panic attacks, and that now I am "her rock, who is sent down from God, to help watch over her", 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Jeff01
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[Wiseman2]

It's sad that you trive on this drama as a distraction from your own life.

You seem articulate enough to know that you don't have to be up all night for all these faux emergencies.

When you are ready or get back to working full time all this will seem like a bad dream.

Why not do something for yourself? Get a physical from a doctor. Get a clean bill of health. Your all-night manic talks are going to make you mentally and physically unwell

From there, start a self improvement program. Get in shape, start some new hobbies and sports and interests.

You're simply avoiding life with this drama. Right now you're on a self destruction path. 

This has nothing to do with her and her rich husband and her Hollywood Housewives style drama.

This is you escaping real life in an unhealthy way. Like booze, gambling or any other counterproductive rabbit holes people can get stuck going down.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Wiseman2