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My Friendship Dilemma!


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@MsJayne 

Unfortunately the kid are just spoiled rotten, and are allowed to do whatever they want. The husband is into real estate, buying, fixing up, and either renting or selling properties. Even though he verbally abuses her almost every single day, ( and possibly physically abuse her? ), it's going to be hard for her to ever leave that lifestyle. 

And we're talking their house being a $700,000 dollar home with a mortgage payment of about $3,850 a month, I think she said? 3 car garage, heated in-ground swimming pool and hot tub, brand new cars right out of the showroom. 

2 owned vacation homes in other states. The kids are spoiled rotten for birthdays, and every holiday. The day before Easter, she was telling me about how much was worried that the 110" inch movie-theater size. TV that she bought the kids for Easter "wasn't big enough". 

She was also telling me that she has over 60 dresses that cost $200 or more, and she has over 40 pairs of shoes!! 😮

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Sounds like her husband is a good provider but a lousy guy.

At any rate, you really can't go on with this imaginary romance.

She treats you like a male-girlfriend. So that's worse than the friendzone.

Eventually she'll do fine but you need to worry about yourself and finding decent single women to date.

Right now you have a crush. But the bottom line is she's married and that's a no fly zone. But you already know this.

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5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

She's heavily fishing for compliments to bolster her rundown self image. You blurting out how you're in love with her will be just another meaningless compliment to her.

If you continue, you'll never get over your divorce. In fact, this is a common situation of making abysmal choices after divorce.

That's the whole problem, I love her. I love her with all my heart. I constantly think of her 24/7. I can't even look at any other woman anywhere without thinking about her. 

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6 minutes ago, Jeff01 said:

That's the whole problem, I love her. I love her with all my heart. I constantly think of her 24/7. I can't even look at any other woman anywhere without thinking about her. 

This is probably the part where the brain should be navigating, not the heart. You're reacting to your emotions and the way you feel and the reinforcing those emotions by telling yourself you love her. The reality is you only know of this woman as a third wheel to the marriage and she's been a friend. Realistically, she's not dating material and you're torturing yourself on the sidelines with the mantra that you love her. 

We can care for certain people but not date them. It's just not an option. I'd check the way you keep telling yourself you love her because you're also continuing to perpetuate your own issues. 

What do your friends and family think of your situation? What's the situation with your ex-wife? Do you have any kids or keep in contact with your ex?

 

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I'm amazed that at 50 years old you still think having lots in common and liking the same things means she is your soulmate. It doesn't.

Spending hours every day in contact with a married woman is not something you should be doing, that's crossing a massive boundary.

If her marriage is as terrible as she says it is, then it's up to her to do something about it, nothing to do with you.

If you are so in love with her then tell her your feelings, but make sure you make a point that you will be stepping back from the friendship, and if in future she becomes single and feels the same way, to contact you. Then you leave her alone completely.

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1 hour ago, Jeff01 said:

@Wiseman2 a male-girlfriend? As in she needs someone to vent to when the husband makes her upset?

Precisely. She's a married woman. It's a waste of your time if you are looking for more than friendship.

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1 hour ago, glows said:

What do your friends and family think of your situation? What's the situation with your ex-wife? Do you have any kids or keep in contact with your ex?

 

No, I haven't talked with any friends or family about any of this. Friends are never around, and/or always too busy to talk. 3 adult kids,1 who's in College full-time, so they are always off with their lives doing their own things. I am lucky if I get a call at Christmas from them wishing me a "Merry Christmas". 

Ex-wife destroyed my whole life. Was a gambling addict, and maxed out all my credit cards and defaulted on them, drained my bank account, stole anything of value like jewelry, old coins, baseball cards, etc. to pawn or sell to get money for scratch tickets or the casino. I lost almost everything I owned because of her!! She stole money from my elderly mother. She stole money from my siblings.

If and when we speak, it is pure hatred I receive from her, when she is the one who destroyed my life!! She actually just said to me a few months ago ( at our adult daughters birthday )  "I hope you get Coronavirus and die, so that I never have to see your face ever again!!". Yes she really said this to me!! 

She has also told me that I should go into the basement to hang myself,  or go jump off a bridge so that I can drown in the river. 

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Lotsgoingon

Her husband mistreats her--let's say he is abusive.

Then 99 percent of your talk with her--as a friend--should be helping her arrange to leave that abusive relationship. But that kind of talking would not lead you to feeling in love with her and it wouldn't be hours and hours every day. 

Might be half an hour a day for a few weeks. And the talk should center around logistics, coaching her and encouraging her to deal with money, make plans for a new living situation, getting rent deposit and so on. 

That's what a friend does--we coach each other during a crisis.

What you're describing is only tangentially related to the crisis. And you're not helping her to leave. You're just caught in taking care of her--and when that happens, YOU put your needs and desires aside and so you do not get taken care of.

This is dysfunctional, and it cannot be the first time you entered into a giver-rescuer-white knight type role. 

The issue of whether she loves you does not matter, because this woman is not capable of leaving her abusive situation and loving another person. She's capable of attaching herself to another person, but not capable of a relationship. Your behavior is something you do not want to be doing past 30. 

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It sounds to me like the night before Easter, she escalated this "friendship" (emotional affair) into wanting more when she told you they slept in separate rooms (classic "he doesn't understand me, we haven't had sex in years" nonsense to justify having an affair.) The same way I would take that claim with a grain of salt, I would also have to wonder about how he is suddenly abusive, calling her names, forcing her into slave labor, etc. I'm not saying she's not in a bad relationship, but all bets are off when you're having an emotional affair with someone - and you are. You've made it pretty clear you don't like her kids, even though they are her world. That's going to be a problem. Also, can you keep her (and her 5 children) in the style to which she is accustomed? I doubt she's going to give the lifestyle her husband keeps her in quite that easily. 

My best advice to you is to just keep your friendship intact (though it may have already gone too far for that.) If she decides to get out of her marriage, it shouldn't be because of you. It should be because that's what is best for her. If you declare your love for her, she might initially see you as an "out", but eventually, it could end very badly and 8 lives will have been blown up for nothing. 

Though you have no desire to look at another woman, that's exactly what I recommend you do because this one is not available.

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7 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

You've made it pretty clear you don't like her kids, even though they are her world. That's going to be a problem.

Thanks for the response. No, I never said anything about not liking her kids, what I did day was that the reason why they don't help her out around the house and do any housework, is because they are spoiled rotten, and are allowed to get whatever they want, or do whatever they want. I never said I didn't like them, all I said was their spoiled and won't do any chores to help their mom out around the house. 

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1 hour ago, Jeff01 said:

Ex-wife destroyed my whole life. Was a gambling addict, and maxed out all my credit cards and defaulted on them, drained my bank account, stole anything of value like jewelry, old coins, baseball cards, etc. to pawn or sell to get money for scratch tickets or the casino. I lost almost everything I owned because of her!! She stole money from my elderly mother. She stole money from my siblings.

Your ex seems to have done a lot of damage to you. So, why would you want to keep going from bad situation to bad situation?

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1 minute ago, Jeff01 said:

Thanks for the response. No, I never said anything about not liking her kids, what I did day was that the reason why they don't help her out around the house and do any housework, is because they are spoiled rotten, and are allowed to get whatever they want, or do whatever they want. I never said I didn't like them, all I said was their spoiled and won't do any chores to help their mom out around the house. 

Okay. I get your point and I put the blame directly on their mom. You start them young so that they realize chores are everyone's duty. You can't wait until they're teens, then complain that they don't help. The term "spoiled rotten" is a negative connotation and I'd have words with someone who called my kids spoiled rotten. She'll probably feel the same way. That's all I was trying to say. 

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2 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Your ex seems to have done a lot of damage to you. So, why would you want to keep going from bad situation to bad situation?

 

3 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Your ex seems to have done a lot of damage to you. So, why would you want to keep going from bad situation to bad situation?

Because I now love this women with all my heart, and can't stop thinking about her 24/7. 

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1 hour ago, Jeff01 said:

No, I haven't talked with any friends or family about any of this. Friends are never around, and/or always too busy to talk. 3 adult kids,1 who's in College full-time, so they are always off with their lives doing their own things. I am lucky if I get a call at Christmas from them wishing me a "Merry Christmas". 

Ex-wife destroyed my whole life. Was a gambling addict, and maxed out all my credit cards and defaulted on them, drained my bank account, stole anything of value like jewelry, old coins, baseball cards, etc. to pawn or sell to get money for scratch tickets or the casino. I lost almost everything I owned because of her!! She stole money from my elderly mother. She stole money from my siblings.

If and when we speak, it is pure hatred I receive from her, when she is the one who destroyed my life!! She actually just said to me a few months ago ( at our adult daughters birthday )  "I hope you get Coronavirus and die, so that I never have to see your face ever again!!". Yes she really said this to me!! 

She has also told me that I should go into the basement to hang myself,  or go jump off a bridge so that I can drown in the river. 

This sounds very painful. Have you tried counselling post-divorce? It might help unpack those issues from the past so that you don't keep repeating the same patterns and also create better boundaries with your ex-wife for coparenting reasons. You seem drawn to this woman like a moth to a flame but you're also ending up sabotaging any future happiness for yourself. 

I don't know what else to tell you. If you're certain you are in love with her and this is all you deserve in a love-interest, there's not much anyone can say about that. I do hope you don't settle or believe that this is all you get. 

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39 minutes ago, Jeff01 said:

 

Because I now love this women with all my heart, and can't stop thinking about her 24/7. 

Or, that is your brain's ability to shut down its rationality receptors and instead fire off floaty sparkly heart bubbles and good vibes. Hopefully one day you will come to believe you are deserving of someone who is more emotionally accessible to you.

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dramafreezone
On 4/8/2021 at 5:07 AM, Jeff01 said:

Hi all. I am new here, because I am trying to get some advice, that I can’t really find the answer to anywhere else. Okay, here is my dilemma. I am a 50 year old divorced guy. My friend is a 50 year old married woman, with 5 children, and I have known her since High School, and we are really good friends.

We talk with each other every single day, for hours at a time, and we like all the same things, and have so much in common. We talk about everything from sports, politics, weather, gardening, TV shows, movies, etc.

Now here’s the problem, I Love Her. Yes, I love her as a friend, but I love her, love her as well. I mean I certainly don’t want to ruin her marriage with her husband, or ruin her family life, or anything, I’m just not sure if I should tell her my true feelings for her, because I don’t know if that might even ruin things between us!?

 

This is a huge contradiction.

First, I am of the belief that women have a sixth sense of knowing when a man is into them.  They pick up on things that you aren't even aware of, so odds are she knows how you feel.  What would be the purpose of telling her?  You said you don't want to ruin her marriage.  It won't ruin her marriage because she's not leaving him for you, so the only thing it would serve is to make things really awkward between the two of you.

Why would you even want someone that would leave their husband for you?  If she did it to him, she could do it to you.

Either control your emotions, or you have to terminate this friendship.  She's having an emotional affair with you, so this is already an inappropriate relationship.  It can't progress further than it already has.

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3 hours ago, Alpaca said:

Your ex seems to have done a lot of damage to you. So, why would you want to keep going from bad situation to bad situation?

Agree with this. Sort of jumping from the frying pan to the fire, no?

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13 hours ago, Jeff01 said:

She was also telling me that she has over 60 dresses that cost $200 or more, and she has over 40 pairs of shoes!! 😮

I have over a hundred pairs of shoes, Jeff. Don't judge a woman for her shoes 😂

But seriously, reading your description of your ex-wife , do you think maybe you're attracted to needy, dependent women?  The kind of women who depend on men and who like to spend, spend, spend?  It just sounds so much like you're not really seeing this all clearly because you're so emotionally invested...... your married woman is leaning on you heavily and you're already being emotionally drained. I'm not condoning her husband being abusive, but I suspect there is another side to their toxic marriage story.  

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3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree with this. Sort of jumping from the frying pan to the fire, no?

🐟   +  🍳  = 🔥

Indeed. 

OP, it's all too tempting to fall into another unfulfilling relationship with someone that is unavailable to pass the time or as a diversion.

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salparadise
12 hours ago, MsJayne said:

married woman is leaning on you heavily and you're already being emotionally drained. I'm not condoning her husband being abusive, but I suspect there is another side to their toxic marriage story.  

In every abusive marriage there is an abuser and a codependent. We place all the blame on the abuser, which is understandable in a sense, but it takes two to maintain that dynamic for more than a few days or weeks. Yes, they are victims (and sadly sympathetic) but they are also the enablers that propagate an abusive environment for whatever reason... often extremely low self-worth  and not believing there are any other choices available, which fits with the abuser like a lock and key. I'm not trying to lay blame on her, I'm just saying what it is from the macro perspective. She needs help, not the complications of sudo love interest/knight in shining armor. 

And then we have OP, Jeff, a good man but with issues that he isn't seeing. Jeff, these feelings you're calling love aren't actually. What is going on for you is that you're feeling so lonely, broken and unaccepted, that having a woman express acceptance is like a cool glass of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert. You haven't had your needs met in so long (if ever) that a bit of acknowledgment morphs into an illusion that you desperately hang onto. I'm not saying you don't care about her, just that the way your emotions have created the narrative is wrong. If you had had options it would be so easier.

Both of you need to be in counseling to get this stuff reorganized and view it objectively. When people (other posters) say you need to just cut her out and quit communicating, they're right in one sense but not taking your (or her) needs and feelings into account. The feelings are real, just not accurate. From a practical perspective, there is no potential here for a romantic relationship. It's based on severe neediness on both sides. She needs to get out of the abusive marriage (with actual friends and family supporting her), and you need to be appreciated for who you are (beginning with self-work), and not because of someone's desperation.

Do not confess feelings; you need to go in the other direction. Get an appointment with a therapist/counselor and encourage her to do the same (different counselors of course). Gain perspective, do the work. Be a friend but not her savior (to the extent you're able- rely on the counselor). I wish you all the best- it's a tough spot for sure, but manageable with the right kind of help I believe.

Edited by salparadise
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2 hours ago, salparadise said:

Yes, they are victims (and sadly sympathetic) but they are also the enablers that propagate an abusive environment for whatever reason... often extremely low self-worth  and not believing there are any other choices available, which fits with the abuser like a lock and key. 

And then we have OP, Jeff, a good man but with issues that he isn't seeing. Jeff, these feelings you're calling love aren't actually. What is going on for you is that you're feeling so lonely, broken and unaccepted, that having a woman express acceptance is like a cool glass of water to a man dying of thirst in the desert. You haven't had your needs met in so long (if ever) that a bit of acknowledgment morphs into an illusion that you desperately hang onto. I'm not saying you don't care about her, just that the way your emotions have created the narrative is wrong. If you had had options it would be so easier.

 

@salparadise 

Thanks for the caring response, I appreciate it. Yes, unfortunately last night I found out how much more she is struggling with her self-worth because of the verbal and mental abuse by the husband. She told me that she was upset because she got a letter from her health insurance company, saying that they won't cover liposuction because she doesn't need it. Mind you, she is 80 pounds soaking wet,  long blond hair, gorgeous light brown eyes, a real looker! 

But this like the 3rd time this week,  I'm hearng this, and not yelling at her, but firmly telling her, "Not this again!", and that "she is beautiful just the way she is, and getting down to 60 pounds wouldn't be healthy". But she tells me that she "is an old ugly 450 pound beached whale, and needs to get down to 60 pounds, even if she has to stop eating to do it!!". 

She then asks me why I am always so sweet to her, and how can I stand talking to her "ugly face, and fat whale blubber body??". 

Luckily, her doctor has her on sleep meds now, so I didn't have to listen to her talk about how much she "hates her life", and "hates herself" all night long. 

And yes, I will admit it, and I think you are right. I am so lonely, broken, and feel so unloved, that my emotions are a major train wreck right now. Because here is my ex-wife telling me that she "hopes I get Coronavirus and die!!", or that I should "commit suicide by jumping off a bridge, or hang myself in the basement".

And here I have my female friend telling me "How much of a sweetheart I am", and "How much I mean to her because I make her feel special". You are right, it is like offering me an ice cold beer, on a hot summers day. 

But the thing is, I am now in so far deep, for my female friend, like I said everythings like a huge fog. I get up in the morning, I think about her. I go to bed at night, I think about her. I watch TV or a movie, I'm thinking about her. I run errands, and I'm thinking about her. When I see other women in public, like at the bank, grocery store, gas station, wherever, they could all be 10's and Playboy bunny models, who knows, because they are all a blur to me, and its like they are in a fog, because all I can think about is my gorgeous and beautiful female friend!! I love her so much, I can't stop thinking about her all the time. 

I feel its like in "Return Of The Jedi" when young Luke asks his Dad Darth Vader to leave with him, and Vader in a sad voice says to Luke "It's too late for me now, son". Unfortunately I'm that sad Darth Vader, who has falling in too deep. 😥

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Ok she sounds a bit like Cinderella one minute scrubbing the floor on her knees for her horrendous abusive husband, the next minute she is an entitled princess who is high maintenance and a bit crazy to boot... being upset over her insurance not paying for her liposuction is nuts.
What on earth are you thinking here?
Wake up.
Unless you are as rich as Croesus, then you have no hope with this woman.
I suggest you run far away before her husband finds out and chucks her out... and she will then cling onto you like a limpet...
that is I guess until she can find a "better" and richer sucker...
I hate not believing and minimising actual abuse, but be very careful here before you go into full "saviour" mode and get badly burned.
ATM you are just making her marriage bearable for her, which would be fine, friends are supposed to help each other, but you love her and that is a different thing...

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@elaine567 Why, wanting your health insurance to pay for your liposuction means she's a spoiled brat!? 

I have already stated that the husband buys and sells real estate to either flip, or rent out, and they own about 30 properties. They live in a $700,000 dollar home with a $3,850 monthly mortgage. 6 bedrooms, 4 full size baths. Heated inground swimming pool, hot tubs, brand new cars right out of the showroom. Boats, jetski's, 100" inch TV and surround sound. 2 owned vacation houses in other states. She has over 80 $200 dollar dresses.  

Not to hard to see what is going on here. The husband mentally and emotional abuses the crap out of her, but financial provides her with a upper-class lifestyle, and gets her whatever she wants, so that way she overlooks all the abuse by him.

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Just now, Jeff01 said:

@elaine567 Why, wanted your health insurance to pay for your liposuction means she's a spoiled brat!?

Because liposuction is a cosmetic procedure.

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