Trying to fix the unfixable in a relationship that otherwise was pretty good aside from 'stepson' issues, all things considered.

[trident_2020]

I've been posting on forums such as this one since 2006 which is when my marriage crashed and burned. I rarely ask for advice.

I've dated countless women in the past 15 years, anywhere from overnighters to a few months to several years.

My current relationship has been 9 years and this one is in serious trouble. I don't see any way to fix things which is why I'm putting it out here to see if there are any other options or perspectives I have not considered.

We met in 2012, at the time I was living in my man-cave 2 floor condo which I customized to my liking. It was in a development with swimming pools, tennis courts, it was the more desirable end unit, with the rare garage, 2 fireplaces, granite countertops etc.. I had made several changes to make it to my liking. I bought it in the midst of my high conflict, expensive, 3 year divorce which went all the way to trial (most don't). I thought I was going to be completely screwed in the divorce, but things started turning around in 2008 and I began to see the light at the end of the tunnel, which is when I bought the condo, and a two-seater convertible, and a dog (lol) and started to live my life again. I see my condo was more symbolic of my freedom and rebuilding my life and starting the next chapter more than anything else.

3.5 years into the relationship, she was ready to break it off. Not because we didn't get along- we did- fantastically. Similar perspectives on life, great intimacy and communication,  we both enjoy the outdoors and many of the activities that go with it, we're both reasonably intelligent people who make a comfortable living and money is not an issue. But I'm an avoidant attachment style and she's an anxious attachment style. She wanted more than the "part time, see you on weekends and a couple of overnights per week here and there" sort of relationship while I was perfectly satisfied with things the way they are. I enjoy my alone time. She does too- but not to the extent that I do.

Anyway- to this day she says she never gave me an ultimatum to the effect of "move in or we're done". She says she was just going to end the relationship because we weren't on the same page. I guess it doesn't matter- I had a difficult choice to make- and I moved in with her 6.5 years ago. I wasn't emotionally ready, and after my condo sold unexpectedly quickly I went into a depression that required medication which lasted for several months. I came out the other side, settled in, and life's been good for over 6 years. I know selling my condo was a mistake- I never actually listed it but I spoke to a broker after I moved out and she contacted me with a buyer who made a generous offer so I went with it (renting it would have been ideal but that's not allowed in that development).

Suffice to say that after I settled in with only the 2nd woman I've ever cohabitated with (other than my mother and sister lol) things were great- Except for her now almost 18 year old son.

I made it clear when I met her that I wasn't really interested in being "a family" which was very important to her. He's got a dad, saw him regularly when younger, not so much nowadays because his dad actually makes him work, and disciplines him to some extent, unlike his overpermissive enabling mom which is the root of our problem.

I also made it clear from day one that I will never, ever marry again. Despite this, and her fully understanding this, she brought up marriage periodically during our time together, most recently only a few short months ago. "I know you said you'd never marry but would you ever reconsider...". I can only imagine the mess if we had actually gotten married. But I digress.

That much being said I was a father figure to her son from the day we met, we did vacations together, spent a lot of time together, he once said and she repeated this recently (to show how much "I" changed) -  "I see you as more of a dad than my own dad".

So..I tried. I have two grown daughters, there was a lot of damage done during my divorce, including severe parental alienation on the part of their mom. I was never abusive but was much more of a disciplinarian than their mother was. I was out of their lives during their teen years, I'll never qualify for parent of the year, I get it, I accept my limitations, I hold myself accountable for lots of the problems and I'm always trying to improve. Both of my daughters ultimately moved in with me (at different times) for about a year and there were opportunities there to reconnect but I worked so much I didn't take advantage of it.  I speak to a therapist on a regular basis who has told me, as has my girlfriend that I've come along way in realizing and dealing with my shortcomings and making strides to improve myself.

But I digress. My "stepson" turned into a real prick about 2-3 years ago. Typical teenage attitude but worse. Kicking in walls and doors in anger, ignoring his mother, always buried in his phone even when she's talking to him, leaving crap all over the house, recently spray painting car parts in the newly asphalted driveway and leaving outlines in paint that he later powerwashed after being told to clean it up countless times- and ruined the outer layer of the driveway.. when he kicked in the doors his mom asked ME to fix it. I did- the first time, against my better judgement but not the second, third.. etc. His grades tanked in school but with Covid and permissiveness on the part of his teachers his Fs and Ds and Cs magically turned into a high 80s average with no rhyme or reason- that's the school system for you- and he's supposedly on his way to college in the Fall.

I did my best to stay out of the dysfunctional mess between the two of them, because when I'd say "Listen to your mother, stop ignoring her", or pointing out to her that he didn't do any of the things she asked him to do, it would lead to tensions between all of us, and she just wanted everyone to get along and be a family even though that meant let the kid do whatever he wanted and have his temper tantrums, etc. He had one regular chore- put out the garbage and recycling 3x per week. He'd rarely if ever do it even if she reminded him countless times. Recently he yelled at her because she told him to put out the plastic instead of the cardboard- which I pointed out when I got home- I said why doesn't he just keep track of which should be put out on his own rather than blaming you when you (after working all day) makes the innocent mistake of saying plastic instead of cardboard. He used to set an alarm on his phone to remind him to put out the garbage but he'd simply turn it off and go back to watching Youtube videos or whatever.

According to her I only see the bad in him, according to me she had blinders on and was trying to position from an ineffective position of fear (that he'd run to his dad's) and only saw him as a normal teenager. He was on 4 different meds for ADD or whatever it was he was tentatively diagnosed with- but the meds "only made him more nasty and agitated"- yeah towards HER. Interestingly he didn't act that way towards anyone else, not even me who he clearly didn't like very much because according to her I was a former father figure who he looked up to and now only saw him as "bad" and to me, he didn't like me because I was the only one who called him on his s***.

Anyway you get the general idea. a spoiled lazy irresponsible selfish teenager with a bad attitude, an enabling overpermissive mother, and a boyfriend who gave up his condo and moved into this dysfunctional situation 6 years ago and is having a hard time keeping his mouth shut watching his girlfriend be ignored or verbally abused by her son who she treats like a king who does poorly in school, had no responsibilities and no job.

When I moved in I put a lot of time, effort and money into turning what was a garage full of crap into workshop- I had the cement floor epoxied with that sparkly stuff that makes it look really nice,  had two new electric garage doors installed, so we could both park our cars there, and built a workshop with counters, lights, etc. I'll get back to that shortly. I also gutted the main floor and opened up the entire floor plan and redid part of the kitchen, a lot of it at my expense and most of it with my own hands. Back to that later.

2 months ago things came to a head. Her son started using my tools without my permission and not putting them back. I spent an hour one day looking for my cordless screwdriver and finally found it in his room in a pile of garbage. His room is always a mess, my girlfriend has a housecleaner in every 2 weeks that cleans it all up, and like a pile of sludge it spreads out again into the adjouning room until the housekeeper comes back again and the cycle repeats ad- nauseum. He's big into cars- his father bought him a sports car which got totaled in an accident soon after he got his license- then got him a second one- and also a Jeep for winter driving. After speaking to my therapist who had advised I just keep my mouth shut about all things regarding her son because it only made things worse, and it's obvious she and I cannot effectively co-parent after several joint counseling sessions- he suggested I say to her son "you can use my tools but you must put them back when you're done".

Of course my request was ignored, and 2 months ago I found 3 of my tools in the pile in the room outside his door in the basement including a plastic drawer filled with Allen wrenches from one of those multi-drawer cabinets. I said to my girlfriend that I was going to tell him he can't use my tools anymore. She said she understood but please be nice and at least greet him when he gets home before getting into it. He gets home shortly thereafter and I say "hows it going", he says "fine" and I tell him- and I walked it back a bit -  "Look you didn't put my tools back- I'm going to give you one more chance- put them back now, and next time you don't it's the last time". He gives me "The look"and stomps off downstairs, immediately calls his mother and asks her to come talk to him.

She goes downstairs I hear him screaming and cursing about me and calling me all these names, once again she's placating him and telling him I simply asked him to put my stuff back- to no avail- his rant continues. I'm upstairs sitting on the couch listening to this prick go on and on and at that point I made what was admittedly a questionable decision. I storm downstairs, get in his face and say something to the effect of "Listen A-Hole you got something to say about me say it to my FACE!". He takes a fighting stance, I put up my fists and say "You want to go, then go ahead and take the first punch". He swings and catches my jaw, I think for a split second "don't hit back, call the cops" but too late, my fist was already on it's way towards his face although I didn't hit him nearly as hard and didn't cause any damage. Meanwhile my jaw was sore for a week and I was splitting blood for a while after the punch.

His friend pulls him back, my girlfriend pulls me away, he goes in his room, I go upstairs to the living room. A short time later she comes upstairs and says coldly "The boys need to eat please go upstairs to the bedroom". I comply- and hear them laughing and chatting having dinner while I'm banished to the bedroom.

We were supposed to go skiing the next day- me, her, the son and his friend. She comes to the room and says in effect "You can't come skiing with us". I am like.. you're taking HIM skiing after this??  That's exactly what she did. At a later date when I asked her about this again she said "I froze, I didn't know what to do, I just wanted to get him out of the situation". How about telling him to go to his dads and cool off for a few days? Not an option to her, not then and not when we discussed it subsequently. About a year prior, him and I got into a verbal altercation (I forget what about but probably the typical crap) and a few days after that she said we need to talk, that I needed to move out because it wasn't a healthy situation for anyone with all the tension. But she wanted to remain together as boyfriend/girlfriend.

I said if I'm leaving we're done. She was hysterical, she said she didn't want to lose me, and I didn't move out. In retrospect I should have, and ended the relationship then. Here we are a year later. I said "I guess I'm leaving then" to which she said adamantly "YES". They go skiing, I find myself a basement apartment in someone's house who I knew,  and moved most of my stuff out. When I was removing my tools from the garage I found the tools that he borrowed thrown on my work bench but no plastic drawer. At a later date I asked my girlfriend where the plastic drawer went- she gave me a look and said "it bit the dust". In other words- he destroyed it.

I broke up with her a few weeks after I moved out but we've been back and forth over the past 2 months trying to salvage things but going nowhere fast. Part of the reconciliation was out of my guilt. She missed work for days after the breakup and was afraid she'd get in trouble. Family members and friends were giving her support. She was a mess. I missed her but was mostly just angry.  I suggested we "be separated but not broken up" to which she immediately said "great idea". Over the past 2 months I've explained to her all the things that have bothered me including the lack of accountability, her basically rewarding him by taking him skiing the day after punching me in the face, and me conveniently exiting stage right leaving him to continue his irresponsible behavior with no opposition whatsoever.

She is basically blaming me for all the issues with her son these past few years- the tension between all of us is somehow causing the attitude?!. Although she acknowledges he's difficult and has ADD and anger issues, but he's a child, she's his parent and parenting him her priority. My position is that an adult child should never interfere with an adult relationship to the extent that he has, and what she's doing isn't parenting- it's not even babysitting. He walks all over her, does what he want when he wants with no regard to anything she asks of him with the occasional exception after she's requested something be done countless times he'll make a token effort just to get her off his back. She acknowledges that if she pushes him too hard he'll run to his dad's house. He's done it before, but lately he hasn't gone there because his dad- who recently bought him 3 cars- has requested he help around his shop on weekends - which her son complains to his mom that he doesn't want to do.

Even if we could somehow work things out short term this could be an issue in the future- he's off to school but like I said earlier, even with her constantly on him about his schoolwork reminding him of missing assignments and upcoming tests of which he never seems to be aware of, he still pulls Fs Ds and Cs and in college he won't get the free pass he's gotten in high school so he'll probably be right back home again with the same attitude, no job, no responsibility and a perpetually enabling mother.

So here I am in my apartment, 2 months in, we haven't spoken in a few days which is unusual. She, being the anxious attachment style partner typically contacts me a half dozen times per day by text or phone, while I rarely call her- I don't get the chance (lol). She had asked me to leave a bunch of my clothes and personal items at her house for when I go back and forth, she expected me to gradually start spending more time there however when I got back to my apartment yesterday the homeowner said "your girlfriend dropped off a bunch of clothes and stuff" (all the things I had left there). This past weekend was the first weekend I stayed at her house since I moved out in mid February, I saw her son for the first time since we exchanged blows, we both played it cool but despite her telling me he's this great new kid since I moved out I see the same attitude, he still ignored her requests to do things around the house, he moved all his crap including his car into my garage/shop, and she's still walking on eggshells around him while I'm trying to keep my mouth shut. She called him Sunday morning asked when he'd be back from his dads and gave him a list of things that needed to be done. He came home later than expected, worked on his car with a friend and then after dinner went out with another friend and did none of the things she asked. She thought it was a great Easter weekend- her parents came over, my dad came by we had dinner all together. But inside I was literally seething. I've been disrespected, displaced, unappreciated, I'm angry and resentful while she continues to enable, he continues to crap all over her and she sees nothing wrong with his attitude and everything wrong with mine. I never even got an apology out of him- she says she "had conversations with him about what happened, and did I ever think about why he took a swing at me" as if somehow it's justified. I had wanted to go back to my apartment Sunday night to make it easier to prepare for work Monday morning but she got upset and asked me to stay. The next day she called me and said "I don't want to make you stay if you're more comfortable going home on Sunday nights and how was it going back to your apartment after staying here" at which point I got into how uncomfortable I was all weekend and all the things I had seen and how broken and far apart we are on how we see things. She called me Tuesday morning and we got into it some more, not arguing, mostly me repeating the stuff I wrote here, including how my therapist has told me we reconciled too quickly, that we need time and space to gain perspective. That may be part of the reason she suddenly went dark- to give me the space despite it being so difficult for her- but that's only speculation on my part. Maybe she got tired of hearing it, maybe she finally realized that there's no fixing this and she decided to pull the plug- but again, as much as I'd like to think I know her after 9 years, I guess I really don't.

As I said I've been posting on forums like this one for over a decade and if someone else wrote this story I'd say "kick her to the curb and don't look back". It's easy to say it - I see posts all day long to the effect of "break up with him or her" but again, in my 58 years I've never met a woman that I've gotten along so well with and had so much in common with- with the obvious exclusion of anything related to her son. Over the past 2 years we've been discussing retirement plans and have looked at homes in other states. I'm not really looking forward to getting back out there and dating again, but it's looking increasingly likely that's going to happen.

So we're sort of in a stalemate at the moment, we haven't spoken in about a week, and I'm thinking just call her and pull the plug once and for all or wait for her to do it or hope he goes away to school and somehow turns things around and she and I can try to get back to something that works for both of us.

Edited April 10, 2021 by trident_2020

[Stupidkupid]

I'm sorry if i':e missed it... how old is the son now?

[Wiseman2]

You are smart to move out. Why invest in a house that's not yours? Why be a scapegoat for this family?

She and the teens father will have to find more appropriate doctors to diagnose him. Clearly being on 4 stimulants (and whatever other street drugs he's using) is not working.

 Maybe he a testosteronal rebellious teen, maybe he's on a collision course with trouble. Who knows, no your problem.

[trident_2020]

I put some money into the house because, well I've got it and I was sort of carving out a niche for myself so to speak and saw a future with her. As I said the few grand I put into it isn't really an issue. As an aside we're legal domestic partners and she's probably saved me more than that in health insurance and non reimbursed medical savings over the past years because I'm covered through her employers insurance.

Part of me hopes you're right that it will get to the point that mom can't deny it anymore and is forced to deal with it and realizes I was correct all along and she comes back begging for forgiveness and will no longer put the needs of her dysfunctional son over ours and won't somehow blame me and all the tension in the home that existed prior as the cause for his behavioral issues as she does now.

I can dream..

 

 

[trident_2020]

[redacted]

5 hours ago, Stupidkupid said:

I'm sorry if i':e missed it... how old is the son now?

He'll be 18 next month.

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility/response to removed content

[Stupidkupid]

I really feel for you. 

Hes not a child and phyaical aggeession is not acceptable. His kicking doors etc even prior to him hitting you is a sign of a very angry young man.

His mum is very unlikely to ever sife with you and this isn't a battle worth having. The son needs help foe hia aggression and that doesn't have to and probably shouldn't be your responsibility.

Give yourself space to think. You can't think if you're doing the back and forth

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

So here I am in my apartment, 2 months in, we haven't spoken in a few days which is unusual.

Maybe she got tired of hearing it, maybe she finally realized that there's no fixing this and she decided to pull the plug- but again, as much as I'd like to think I know her after 9 years, I guess I really don't.

 in my 58 years I've never met a woman that I've gotten along so well with and had so much in common with- with the obvious exclusion of anything related to her son. Over the past 2 years we've been discussing retirement plans and have looked at homes in other states. I'm not really looking forward to getting back out there and dating again, but it's looking increasingly likely that's going to happen.

So we're sort of in a stalemate at the moment

I think you did the right thing under the circumstances by moving out and giving this whole thing "space". IMO there were few other options, given that he's essentially a young adult.

Ideally, he pulls it together to the extent where he's independent and then moves out eventually.

So one approach would be to continue the relationship while staying in your own place. Essentially waiting this out for a year or two. The negative would be IF he doesn't pull it together and lives with her long term, you "wasted time" waiting for that. So that possibility makes it a bit of a tough call. Moving on would be your other main option (as you already know).

Of course, if SHE has decided to unilaterally move on, that would be it's own issue. Some signals are there, but it's not entirely clear what's going on with her. Hopefully your communication is good enough that in the near future you can have a heart to heart on what she's thinking.

[trident_2020]

@mark clemsonAs far as the summary goes, her son is a big problem but to me at least the bigger problem is her response to it, or lack thereof, and how she puts our relationship way down on the scale of priorities. It's a matter of me feeling disrespected, unappreciated, and angry and resentful at basically being shoved aside so she can "parent" her son, or at least that's what she calls her ineffective way of not dealing with him and the issues.

I was doing exactly what you suggested- keeping my mouth shut and biding my time knowing he's off to school in a few months and might actually have procured part time summer employment where his dad lives, over an hour away. Anyway I'm not the type that does well with keeping my mouth shut all it did was build up until everything exploded. A better and more patient man than me might have had a chance and even helped guide the kid in a more positive direction.

But as you said, the future is very uncertain, I've read countless stories as of late about adult stepchildren moving back home, jobless and parasitizing the rest of the household for many years and creating strife and conflict between the biological parent and the step parent who are often at odds with each other.

There's more than a remote chance of that happening given his lack of scholastic aptitude, laziness, etc.

I've had enough conflict in my life and I deserve better.

At some point she and I will need to talk but I have no intention of contacting her anytime soon, there's no need, and this strict contact is best for both of us so we can hopefully gain some perspective.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by trident_2020

[Yosemite]

I think that you should continue seeing her. You said that you've never connected with anyone else like this...that's pretty rare to find.

It seems like the majority of the problems are coming from the son, well hopefully he'll move out for college and stay moved out. If he doesn't, you'll have to deal with it then...but don't give up the relationship for something that hasn't even happened yet. Maybe he will get his act together and stay gone.

You said that she "pressured" you into moving in with her and that you wanted to coast along seeing each other on the weekends and a couple nights a week. Well, now you can do that, see her a couple times a week while you live at your place...you're getting what you wanted.

She stuck by you when you went into a depression because you moved in with her. A lot of people wouldn't have. It would be very hard not to be deeply hurt and offended that someone needed medication because they were so depressed that they moved in.

You hit her son and she's willing to forgive you for that and continue the relationship. A lot of people wouldn't. To a lot of parents, it  wouldn’t matter that he hit you first and it wouldn't matter that he's undisciplined and out of control...you're a full grown man, he's a high school kid and you punched him, probably 70% or more of parents would never ever forgive that. She's forgiven you, so you should probably find a way to forgive her for some things.

Her son is out of control and her lack of discipline is making it worse. But she's acting this way because she has a fear of losing him. You may think that she should follow your advice; but she may be thinking that you're estranged from your daughters...if she follows your advice, she'll end up estranged from her son.

Try your best to stay out of what's going on with her son. I understand that that's much easier said than done, but there really isn't any other solution other than breaking up. If you want to stay together, really try to stay out of what's going on with her son.

As far as your tools, if you move back in with them, can you lock the storage chests and just forbid him from using them? If he takes them without permission, maybe keep them in storage. I know that that sucks, but you have to think outside the box until he moves out and keep your fingers crossed that he doesn't move back in.

We're only hearing your side of the story; she may be thinking that you want her to prioritize you over her son...ok, but you refuse to marry her. She obviously has a fear of losing her son and you have some fears about marriage...how can you expect her to confront her fears of losing her son for you when you're unwilling to confront to your fears of marriage for her. I'm not saying you're wrong for not wanting to get re-married, but I think that if you try to look at things from her perspective you can see that she's not the only one who could make some changes or compromise for the other person.

[trident_2020]

Excellent post @Yosemitedefinitely some things for me to think about.

I'd never move back in again if he was there full time, and hoping he doesn't move back home and having to lock up my stuff just isn't very appealing to me and that would be one of many problems that would be ongoing.

Your other points are well taken, she's made compromises and forgiven me for my halfhearted retaliatory swing back at him, and not taken my post-move in depression personally and yes I'm expecting her to give me more priority in her life while at the same time I refuse to marry her. I get it, I can see where she's conflicted. For what it's worth, she's got her own depression and anxiety issues, I was with her through several meltdowns, job losses and more than one surgery for back and shoulder issues.

She's gently brought up the fact that I don't have a relationship with my daughters and has openly expressed her fear of losing him to his father. My response has always been that she cannot effectively parent from a position of fear, and she's teaching him to treat a woman like crap which will affect every relationship he ever has in his life. But that falls on deaf ears.

The whole thing about me being back where I was originally with a part time relationship and seeing each other part time. You know, it's funny, I've given that a lot of thought lately and it's one of those "be careful what you wish for" things. Now that I'm back to having my own place I miss the full time relationship. Also this apartment isn't nearly as nice as the condo I was living in before. It's much smaller, doesn't even have a full kitchen, no garage, etc.. One of my thoughts is to purchase a place back in that same development even though I'll pay a lot more than what I sold for 6 years ago.

And yes, it's taken me 58 years to connect with someone on the level we did. Odds aren't great it's going to happen again with someone else, although I'm not afraid to take the risk.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by trident_2020

[Yosemite]

2 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

And yes, it's taken me 58 years to connect with someone on the level we did. Odds aren't great it's going to happen again with someone else, although I'm not afraid to take the risk.

I agree that that's the right way to think about it, but at the same time you can't throw the baby out with the bath water...this sounds like a good relationship.

It's not reasonable right now for you to ask her to prioritize you over her son. Really think about that. Because 99% of "good mothers" would not prioritize their boyfriend over their 16/17 yr old child. If he was 25 and pulling all this crap, then yes, you would be right to say it's me or him, but right now, he's still underage and you can't ask her to do that.

She's making a lot of mistakes with how she's raising him, but that has to be between him and her. You tried helping, but it backfired...so now all you can do is back off.

Her relationship with her son has to be her relationship with her son. And your relationship with her has to be completely separate. That's going to be very hard to do and only you can decide if the relationship is worth it. But since you've never been so compatible with anyone else, it seems like it's at least worth a try.

Take this time living in the apartment to cool your head and reset the relationship. When he goes off to college, then you can talk about moving in and see if that's what you both want.

She's probably a warm, good-hearted person which is probably one of the things that you like about her and what makes her a good partner for you. Well, that same warm heart is making her go too easy on her son; all you can do is try to be understanding about that.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Yosemite

[ShyViolet]

I think you already know what you need to do.  End this once and for all and make a clean break. The son is not your problem and you shouldn't get in the middle of his dysfunctional relationship with his mom.  This has been going on for years and it's not going to change.  The son will be the same as this, causing the same problems, for years to come.  It doesn't sound like he has the responsibility or life skills to make it on his own for a long time.

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

her son is a big problem but to me at least the bigger problem is her response to it, or lack thereof, and how she puts our relationship way down on the scale of priorities. It's a matter of me feeling disrespected, unappreciated, and angry and resentful at basically being shoved aside so she can "parent" her son

But as you said, the future is very uncertain, I've read countless stories as of late about adult stepchildren moving back home, jobless and parasitizing the rest of the household for many years and creating strife and conflict between the biological parent and the step parent who are often at odds with each other.

Fair enough. The prioritization would presumably be less of an issue if he weren't in trouble and needing all this attn/support but instead was taking care of himself/managing his life well and/or living on his own in another state or similar. But he's not there yet (if he gets there at all.). And IMO you (and others) are absolutely right about the risk of this becoming a LT problem. Not a particularly easy situation.

I think establishing reasonable consequences is an important part of parenting, and those who aren't good at that, risk stuff like this happening later on. It can happen anyway regardless, but I think failure to ever "lay down the law" a bit early on teaches some kids they can get away with anything.

I actually have a somewhat similar situation with my kids in that they will sometimes ignore my wife, not even acknowledge her until several attempts to get their attn. She has, to a certain extent, trained them that it's ok to not take her seriously. All she will do is keep trying and get a bit louder, whereas I (if/when actually warranted) am quite willing to take away the iPhone for a day or two or what have you. And they well know that and so tend to take things more seriously. It's just human nature for many kids, I think.

Edited April 11, 2021 by mark clemson

[Pumpernickel]

I’m with @Yosemiteon this one.

It’s otherwise a good relationship, why would you give that up? The son is almost out of the house, and soon she will have more time for you & most likely will make you her top-priority (which is what you desire the most, as I understand it). She seems quite devoted to the relationship, is what I understand when I read your story. I also understand there’s a lot of resentment on your end, and I’m wondering if there’s a certain amount of jealousy involved? Like you’ve always felt you came second to the step-son, and even if he HAD done everything correctly, you’d still feel a little bit “left out”? I don’t know. This could also be due to your problematic relationship with your daughters. 
 

I think this could work when it’s just the two of you in the household. See how it goes. Keep your apartment on the side, in case he returns from college and moves back in. 
 

The only obstacle I see is if there’s too much resentment from your and/or her side. It won’t work if all respect is lost. For you this could be due to years of feeling neglected, second best, and/or feeling disrespect towards her, because she’s not the mother she should be (as in your eyes she’s weak & can’t stand up for herself), and for her this could be due to years of listening to a partner who obviously doesn’t like her child very much, talks negatively about the child, and has had a physical altercation with said child. It would be tough for any loving mom to forgive that, especially the latter. 
 

How’s the dog, BTW? Did he/she move out with you? 

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

Odds aren't great it's going to happen again with someone else, although I'm not afraid to take the risk.

You've been through years of this. This is who she is. Your problems with her won't be over miraculously when he turns 18. Because he's not the problem. She is.

[elaine567]

I get the advice to lay low as he is almost out of the house, but what if he isn't? what if his low grades come back to bite him and he turns into a drop out, living at home, enabled at every turn by his mother?
I also get that mama bear type behaviour in your gf, with you being the bad guy, but when the son is acting like an out of control delinquent and she refuses to acknowledge that, then I don't see many happy days for you ahead... 
Sorry to be so negative, but a partner really should have your back imo.
 

[elaine567]

I apologise if you have already answered this, but does the son know you refuse to marry his mother?

[d0nnivain]

I think the 1st Q has to be What do you want?  What does an ideal relationship with her look like?  Maybe the dream is she never had this kid but since that isn't an option just think it through.  It sounds like you would be OK if he was a respectful kid, who put your tools away.  I'm sure there's more too it but you need to flesh that out in your own head, or maybe on paper.  Design the perfect relationship.  Put what you wrote aside then come back to it.  Think about what's realistic & what's not.  Think about how long it will take.  When you whittle it down to your bare minimums, add some back to the wish list. Know your own deal breakers then start talking to her again about what you need.  It's bordering on ultimatum but I don't want you to come at this discussion from such a harsh all or nothing space but do talk.  

Maybe you could all benefit from a few session with a family therapist. I'm sure the kid has some things he wishes were different.  He probably feels torn, stuck & confused too.  

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, trident_2020 said:

expressed her fear of losing him to his father.

This kid is unfortunately collateral damage in their war with each other. He's a mess because she's a mess. That won't end.

[trident_2020]

14 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

I think you already know what you need to do.  End this once and for all and make a clean break. The son is not your problem and you shouldn't get in the middle of his dysfunctional relationship with his mom.  This has been going on for years and it's not going to change.  The son will be the same as this, causing the same problems, for years to come.

Yes this is what's driving my towards pulling the plug on this. I've had so much conflict in my life and i don't want it anymore. Nothing she's said gives me any indication that he or she will change in the years to come. That's why advice to the effect of "just back off, cool down and let her deal with him" doesn't really solve anything, nor does locking up my tools in a storage chest as suggested by another poster. It's funny my therapist gave me the same advice.

2 hours ago, Pumpernickel said:

I’m with @Yosemiteon this one.

even if he HAD done everything correctly, you’d still feel a little bit “left out”? I don’t know. This could also be due to your problematic relationship with your daughters. 
 

I think this could work when it’s just the two of you in the household. See how it goes. Keep your apartment on the side, in case he returns from college and moves back in. 
 

The only obstacle I see is if there’s too much resentment from your and/or her side

How’s the dog, BTW? Did he/she move out with you? 

You hit all the main points. Even if we try to work things out i won't give up the apartment anytime soon, yes there's a lot of damage done, with resentment on both sides. If he had done everything correctly..? You mean not turned into an arrogant, selfish, verbally abusive violent prick? We got along great until his adolescent transformation, there were no issues between him and I.

My dog's fine, still very energetic at 13+ years. The homeowner loves my dog and watches her while I'm at work and feeds her on my late days. We just got back from a nice long walk, I took her to a park with a lake and woods near my girlfriend's house and walked down some of the same old streets including past her house. Just for that sense of familiarity I guess.

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You've been through years of this. This is who she is. Your problems with her won't be over miraculously when he turns 18. Because he's not the problem. She is.

Yes that's where the needle of the "Break-up-meter" points when I'm in "let's get this over with, we're wasting our time" mode. I know she's most of the problem with her guilt, enabling, denial, permissiveness and fear.

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Sorry to be so negative, but a partner really should have your back imo.

Opinions on this seem to vary, depending on who you speak to and what relationship articles you read. Of course I agree with you, the significant other should come first especially when it comes to adult children. But my girlfriend clearly feels otherwise.

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I apologise if you have already answered this, but does the son know you refuse to marry his mother?

I don't know and I don't think he could care less.

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

  It sounds like you would be OK if he was a respectful kid, who put your tools away.

Maybe you could all benefit from a few session with a family therapist. I'm sure the kid has some things he wishes were different.  He probably feels torn, stuck & confused too.  

He was a great respectful kid and we got along very well until a couple of years ago when he became a prick. If he didn't become a prick we'd still get along great and this situation wouldn't exist.

The therapist I speak to weekly was recommended to me by my girlfriend who used to see him with her now exhusband many years ago. We've had several joint counseling sessions with him regarding her son, he tried his best to get us on the same page but it just never happened.

[elaine567]

4 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

I don't know and I don't think he could care less.

I just wondered, because maybe he saw you as a father who was going to stick around, but once he found out you had no intentions of getting married to his mother, it soured him against you. Just a thought.

[trident_2020]

I think that's a longshot but hey she tends to blame me for a lot of his attitude because of the tension that exists between him and I so why not add that to the pile.

 

[BaileyB]

You may need to let her go, and if things settle down with the son she may come back to you. Ie). He moves out and/or matures with time such that he can be respectful and responsible. Otherwise, your choices are separate and continue to date on different terms/different context to the relationship or step back into this dysfunctional family dynamic... and that, I would not do. 

I can understand her love for her child and I do believe at this time of life, he needs her attention - he needs her to parent. That said, her inability to do so effectively has put you in a tough position here. I would take a big step back, as you have done. Time will tell which way this will go...

[trident_2020]

33 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You may need to let her go, and if things settle down with the son she may come back to you. Ie). He moves out and/or matures with time such that he can be respectful and responsible. Otherwise, your choices are separate and continue to date on different terms/different context to the relationship or step back into this dysfunctional family dynamic... and that, I would not do.

Yes it pretty much comes down to those 3 options. But if I chose number 1, then do I start dating again..and make a more permanent change to my living situation.? Or just wait things out a bit and let my head settle a bit. Meanwhile 2 months have gone by since I moved out, and life is short, ya know?

She had asked me to speak to her dad, a week or so back when we were into a heavy bit of conversation. I get along well with her parents, they've been helpful, compassionate and understanding throughout our entire relationship. I just gave him a call to see if there was any additional information or input that he could provide. He really didn't have anything different to say-  she told him she loves me deeply but cannot live with me and her son. He realizes we're moving further apart and about the only thing I can do to try to save this is to call her periodically, stay friendly, stay in touch and see where things go. That's not really all that appealing to me, it's no different than waiting around for an indeterminate amount of time and keeping my life on hold to see what happens with her son.

He said she isn't calling me because she told him she tried a few times and I didn't respond so she gave up. I guess since this is the second time I pulled back and went dark on her (the first was for a couple of weeks after I moved out) she figured it was pointless to keep trying. In fact she only called once last week and I was at work and didn't pick up, but I've made no attempt to contact her.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by trident_2020

[jspice]

It’s not the son that’s the main problem. His parents’ lack of adequate parenting and spoiling him have created this monster. 
 

My mother has been a single mum for most of my life since she left an abusive relationship. 
She set boundaries for what was acceptable behaviour and what wasn’t. She knew that as a single mother she had to have firm boundaries. If any one of us stepped out of line we would be dealt with accordingly. If we had dared to even raise our voice at her or someone she was in a relationship with ... I don’t know what would happen because we wouldn’t dare to try and find out. 
 

Her brother on the other hand divorced his wife and he’s been spoiling his brats for most of their lives. Probably in an attempt to assuage his guilt. 
The younger brat is now 35, has never had a job, and is just an all round piece of trash. He’s slapped his father, yelled at the father’s partner ( its her house theyre living in) and they’ve given him millions of dollars by now. He’s exactly who he was at 13, 18 and 25.
 

Unless and until your girlfriend works out her boundaries and discipline, you’re going to have problems. Are the good things so good that you can continue to live with this level of disrespect?