Upfront about desires and intentions at the beginning

[Gaeta]

24 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

 Dating at 37 is not dating at 27, so they're aren't endless options out there.

She lives in a city of 6.2 million. Yes her options are endless.

I don't know where you get the idea that we got less options as we age. Not at all my experience.

[poppyfields]

LaPi, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you are NOT seeking marriage, or the combining of financial assets, so not sure why that argument is being brought into this discussion.

What you want (ultimately) is a loving, supportive long term relationship that may or may not result in living together, not marriage.

Correct?

Edited April 15, 2021 by poppyfields

[dramafreezone]

9 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I agree with the bolded, at least as it pertains to myself.  In fact, I don't even have a "picture," the picture is whatever myself and my boyfriend (if I had one which currently I do not) want it to be, mutually.

However, I think it's wrong to shame those who do want that exact picture for themselves, whether that means living together or marriage; I mean who are we, who is anyone, to judge what's right for another human being?

I don't think anyone should settle or lower standards.  Learn to be happy and content on your own, happy single, and no one should have to settle.

So I think advising someone to settle because it's hard enough finding people we genuinely like is poor advice.

No one has to lower standards.  But where does being pragmatic about what you can demand come into play?

Don't some necessarily have unrealistic standards, or are everyone's standards perfectly reasonable?  If we accept the former, then is telling them to never lower their standard helpful for them?  If everyone keeps telling that person don't settle, that's actually being cruel to them.  That person will invariably think they're something wrong with them, when they only needed to recalibrate their thinking.

I think asking and answering a simple question: "what does this guy want" would do her wonders.  Once she figures that out it's simply a matter of if she can provide it.  If not move on and find a guy that can, but it makes sense to lalso ask "what does this guy look like?"  Someone her own age that's looking for a committed relationship without the prospect of kids, I don't think there's very many guys signing up for that, just my opinion.  Someone 10-15 years older would be much more willing in my opinion.

[Gaeta]

She is just 37, of course at some point she'd like to live with her partner. She mentionned she is open to remarrying too.

She wants to date a man that beleives in relationships and in having a life partner. Plenty of men do want relationships, love, life partnership, a life together. She doesn't have to date a guy that doesn't know what he wants

Dating a man that has no clue if he ever wants to be in a relationship again is a huge waste of time. How do you want to win a race if from the start both don't head in the same direction.

 

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I think asking and answering a simple question: "what does this guy want"

Are we reading the same thread? Cause she asked him what he wants and he said he didn't know.

[dramafreezone]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Are we reading the same thread? Cause she asked him what he wants and he said he didn't know.

She told him what she wanted, and he responded by saying he doesn't know if he wants that.  In response, she broke up with him.

She didn't ask him what he wanted.  That's the entire disconnect here.  It's been "he doesn't want what I want so I'm done."  Never did I see any attempt to understand what he wants.

Edited April 15, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Versacehottie]

2 hours ago, LaPi said:

Yes, I am lonely. 
I’m Canadian, but my entire family is overseas, haven’t seen them in 2 years now. 
Being a single parent is challenging and schools are closed. My stress level is very high. 
it’s understandable that I also acted the way I acted (telling him I was invested) out of insecurity, because we have so little joys at this time, that I just wanted to feel good for real. 
 

so that’s also why I want to reach out at one point. Because yes, I am lonely, and yes, I was enjoying his company a lot, that’s true. 

Do you think these things (bolded) cause you to try to force the situation? And define the relationship more than it was already? 

Sounds like you were looking for an escape and some security from someone who generally made you feel good. To me, 8 dates you had exclusivity and that is about right considering each of your life situations. 

Wanting and feeling hopeless about the relationship just because you didn't get added assurance and even more of an "everything is settled" or an escape, sounds like it's more about you and what you are dealing with in your life rather than a more objective take on what you two had going on and what was about average for the length of time you'd been dating. 

So basically you're having some internal rollercoaster, and you kind of sabotaged a potentially good relationship...that's what it seems like.

[Versacehottie]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Are we reading the same thread? Cause she asked him what he wants and he said he didn't know.

I don't know...they were regularly dating, it was progressing, they were exclusive. They both have complicated lives. The question was sprung on him, ie he didn't know it was coming.  Is he really supposed to have it all figured out? 

Conversely we can see she is looking for security, assurance and an escape from her real life.  I would no more presume that she ACTUALLY knows what she wants and needs than I would presume that in a reasonable amount of time that he would have gathered enough information and clarity to actually know.  

She can have her head in the clouds and he has his feet on the ground and because of that she is in the right? I don't think so. There is only what is right for her. And what is right for him. If she RISKS it by forcing the issue, it's a risk she takes, that the forcing is backing one or both of them into a decision that may be too early to take.  Some people when forced and don't feel clear say no.  I have a feeling had he rolled with it momentarily and dated her for another month, let's say, but then decided he didn't see a future with her, we'd all be having this same thread--where she feels duped, etc and he would be accused of lying, playing her.

8 dates in is exploratory IMO.

Let's face it she is looking for a relationship and he is looking for a person. No guy just wants to fill the empty slot of a woman who just wants a relationship.  People like to feel like they are special and chosen. That's why forcing this arbitrary timelines, DTR talks (especially in this case where it was already progressing) can backfire, like I think this did. Especially since she is doubting the end result.

[Gaeta]

7 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

She didn't ask him what he wanted.  That's the entire disconnect here.  It's been "he doesn't want what I want so I'm done."  Never did I see any attempt to understand what he wants.

Of course, it's her life.

She knows he doesn't want the same as her so why care what he wants? 

When l go back to dating and the guy tells me he's not sure he wants a relationship l won't negociate with him, l will not date him. Like OP and this guy our view on relationships, partnerships, commitment isn't matching so why continue.

[LaPi]

7 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

She told him what she wanted, and he responded by saying he doesn't know if he wants that.  In response, she broke up with him.

She didn't ask him what he wanted.  That's the entire disconnect here.  It's been "he doesn't want what I want so I'm done."  Never did I see any attempt to understand what he wants.

I actually have to agree with you here. 
this is exactly why I am a slightly second guessing the fact that I was too fast in dismissing the relationship. 
I acted in an attempt to protect my feelings, instead of taking a deep breath and asking about his point of view a bit better. 
I tend to assume things instead of asking questions, that was my mistake. 
I should have clearly asked him the following: 

do you see this between us as only casual? 
How do you feel about the fact that I am telling you I’m invested/interested in you? 
Is your intention to start dating other people when things get better with covid? 
Are you currently active on Tinder? 
 

I might already know the answer to these questions, but better ask directly, no? 

 

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Do you see this between us as only casual? 
How do you feel about the fact that I am telling you I’m invested/interested in you? 
Is your intention to start dating other people when things get better with covid? 
Are you currently active on Tinder? 
 

I might already know the answer to these questions, but better ask directly, no? 

 

All wrong questions!

1. Of course it's casual for now, you are at 8 dates. The real question is: what is his final goal with dating?

2. Skip that. It's too soin to be invested, you will just put him under the spot light.

3. Because we are intimate l would like we date exclusively and delete our dating app.

I have never dated a man passed 4-5 dates without confirming we are exclusive. If he has a problem with it at 8 dates, drop him.

[Happy Lemming]

6 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I might already know the answer to these questions, but better ask directly, no?

There are no dumb questions... just the ones that don't get asked.

Make a list of ALL the questions you think you need answered. Be completely clear, don't use words that have several meanings (ie. single).  If you mean marriage, type marriage.  If you mean living together, type living together. If there is a time frame that is important to you, specify that time frame. If possible, phrase them so you get "yes" or "no" answers, number them in order of priority, draft an e-mail, let it soak for a day, revise it (if necessary) then send it.  See if he responds.

An e-mail will give him adequate time to respond without putting him on the spot and forcing him to come up with an answer in 2-3 seconds.

[dramafreezone]

20 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I actually have to agree with you here. 
this is exactly why I am a slightly second guessing the fact that I was too fast in dismissing the relationship. 
I acted in an attempt to protect my feelings, instead of taking a deep breath and asking about his point of view a bit better. 
I tend to assume things instead of asking questions, that was my mistake. 
I should have clearly asked him the following: 

do you see this between us as only casual? 
How do you feel about the fact that I am telling you I’m invested/interested in you? 
Is your intention to start dating other people when things get better with covid? 
Are you currently active on Tinder? 
 

I might already know the answer to these questions, but better ask directly, no? 

 

I would just ask more open ended questions, simply like "what do you want."  The close-ended questions are still framed as to what you want and I think it'll only frustrate you more.

Converse, don't confront.  Allow him to speak freely.  You might find that what he wants now is only temporary, or that it's already closer to what you want than you realize.  Or maybe you won't get the answer that you want, but I think the mindset of asking what the guy wants will serve you much better than making assumptions. 

And in general I think it's a good thought exercise to begin imagining what a guy that wants a committed relationship with no more children looks like.  It sounds like there's a very defined lifestyle you have in mind.   Are you willing to date a bit older if this one doesn't work out?  I think that's your best bet, to create a realistic roadmap to get what you want.

Gaeta is right, there are a lot of guys in the world but if you're looking for the wrong demographic there might as well be none.

Edited April 15, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

47 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I think asking and answering a simple question: "what does this guy want" would do her wonders.  Once she figures that out it's simply a matter of if she can provide it.  If not move on and find a guy that can, but it makes sense to lalso ask "what does this guy look like?"  Someone her own age that's looking for a committed relationship without the prospect of kids, I don't think there's very many guys signing up for that, just my opinion.  Someone 10-15 years older would be much more willing in my opinion.

Okay, so the bolded is actually pretty good advice dramafreeze.  When he told LaPi he was not seeking a "partner" (i.e. relationship), that would have been a good opportunity to respond with "what are you looking for, what do you ultimately want"?   And depending on his answer, working on some sort of compromise that might serve both their purposes.

That said, often times when emotions are high, it's difficult responding in such a way that would foster such a positive communication, I get that.

Given you are admittedly not an emotional person DFZ, you might not be able to understand that as easily as I can. 😆

In any event, it's too late now for the OP, that ship has sailed, unless he has a change of heart and reaches out.

But perhaps this a good lesson learned for next guy.  Don't make rash decisions based on emotion.  Good lesson for myself as well.

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

42 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

She told him what she wanted, and he responded by saying he doesn't know if he wants that.  In response, she broke up with him.

She didn't ask him what he wanted.  That's the entire disconnect here.  It's been "he doesn't want what I want so I'm done."  Never did I see any attempt to understand what he wants.

Again agree, she made a decision based on emotion.  Again, excellent point dramafreeze.  

[dramafreezone]

16 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Okay, so the bolded is actually pretty good advice dramafreeze.  When he told LaPi he was not seeking a "partner" (i.e. relationship), that would have been a good opportunity to respond with "what are you looking for, what do you ultimately want"?   

That said, often times when emotions are high, it's difficult responding in such a way that would foster such a positive communication, I get that.

Given you are admittedly not an emotional person DFZ, you might not be able to understand that as easily as I can. 😆

In any event, it's too late now for the OP, that ship has sailed, unless he has a change of heart and reaches out.

But perhaps this a good lesson learned for next guy.  Don't make rash decisions based on emotion.  Good lesson for myself as well.

 

Well that's where I will fault the guy.  He didn't understand the emotional gravity of the situation and just dropped it on her head like a sledgehammer.  He handled it about as poorly as he could've.  That was not the time for the cold hard truth.

In his place I would've changed the subject, which would've also upset her but it's the lesser of two blowups.  I'm not going to crush her when she's pouring her heart out.

Edited April 15, 2021 by dramafreezone

[poppyfields]

Just now, dramafreezone said:

Well that's where I will fault the guy.  He didn't understand the emotional gravity of the situation and just dropped it on her head like a sledgehammer.  He handled it about as poorly as he could've.  That was not the time for the cold hard truth.

In his place I would've changed the subject, which would've also upset her but it's the lesser of two blowups.

Lol, I wouldn't be so sure about that! 😂

I am envisioning that scenario, and while me dumping you might not have happened at that moment, when a woman initiates a discussion like that, a man changing the subject is akin to stonewalling, not an endearing quality for a man, for anyone, to possess.

In fact, so early in, it might be a dealbreaker.

 

[LaPi]

2 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Well that's where I will fault the guy.  He didn't understand the emotional gravity of the situation and just dropped it on her head like a sledgehammer.  He handled it about as poorly as he could've.  That was not the time for the cold hard truth.

In his place I would've changed the subject, which would've also upset her but it's the lesser of two blowups.

Yes, it was very emotional. 
We were in bed, super close, hugging while talking, it was just painful. 
 

back to last week, we were having a great time sharing stuff about our life and he said “life is pretty hard right now, I know how much easier would be with a partner” 

and I said to him.. a bit shy “well ...even if I cannot help you in your everyday life.. but you kinda have a partner now” 

and he smiled, leaned forward and kissed me. 
 

no seriously, wasn’t I supposed to think we were on the same page??? 

[dramafreezone]

1 minute ago, poppyfields said:

Lol, I wouldn't be so sure about that! 😂

I am envisioning that scenario, and while me dumping you might not have happened at that moment, when a woman initiates a discussion like that, a man changing the subject is akin to stonewalling, not an endearing quality for a man, for anyone, to possess.

In fact, so early in, it might be a dealbreaker.

 

I think the time and place to discuss that is the "where is this going" conversation.  I didn't interpret this as that, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Alpacalia]

So, OP, maybe the next time you can consider if you're comfortable being in a state of uncertainty while allowing the other person the space they need. 

We have to remember to take care of ourselves and make sure that any romantic relationship we are forming will lead to a healthy partnership (rather than a dynamic where one or both of the two individual's needs are dismissed).

Something I'm trying to learn, myself.

I suppose the trick is determining whether or not to cut your losses sooner than later. And, there is no magic formula for that.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Alpaca

[Alpacalia]

3 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

She told him what she wanted, and he responded by saying he doesn't know if he wants that.  In response, she broke up with him.

She didn't ask him what he wanted.  That's the entire disconnect here.  It's been "he doesn't want what I want so I'm done."  Never did I see any attempt to understand what he wants.

According to her initial post, he said "he's just not sure and doesn't want a relationship."

If someone says "they don't want a relationship," what do you suggest would be the prudent thing to do?

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Alpaca

[chillii]

Seems pretty silly to even start seeing him without knowing he wasn't looking for a relationship.

Back in the day that was the very first thing especially on a date site. At any rate , be warned now what he's said means he at least doesn't see it with you anyway, so your wasting your time with him your not his first choice.

[spiderowl]

15 hours ago, LaPi said:

sometimes you just get played. I thought I did.. choose carefully. I was telling my friend "wow, it seems like we are in love already, we are just so much of two love birds"

I am hurt and I am upset because clearly I was reading everything so wrong. And I don't even know how. Other men, they were way more detached and clearly not as invested, so I wasn't either. But with him.... it was different. That's why my shock 

I don't get the feeling you were reading things wrong, OP.  I think he does like you a lot and will be very sorry you ended it.  He just wasn't at the point where he could throw himself in there. Whether he would have, in the future, is hard to know.  You trusted your instinct though and that was probably a good thing.

[Soak]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:56 AM, Dis said:

Ohhh you're not wrong at all for voicing your needs/goals/wants

 

His just don't align with yours. And just because he was lovey dovey doesn't mean it means the same for him as it does for you 

 

I would let him go now because if you think you're hurt now, you'll be much more hurt down the line after you get more attached and he doesn't change his mind about wanting what you want...don't expect him to either 

 

Next time you date you should be on the same page with the guy you're dating in terms of goals right from the get go

 

So sorry about this!  

I agree with this.

You didn't do the wrong thing. 

In the future, you need to do two things:

1. Work out whether they are available. This can mean emotionally available, or physically available. A person can still be single but not "available".

2. Ascertain their goals asap. This will save you time and building your expectations with fantasy, or getting carried away too soon. It's nice to get carried away, but make sure they are getting carried away too.

[balin]

On 4/14/2021 at 12:56 AM, LaPi said:

I wanted a partner in my future, not sure yet if that partner will be him

I can't help thinking that this threw him somewhat, in the moment

It suggests an imbalance (or a test) and his response was coloured by defense and seeked to mirror the sentiment , but came off rather harshly.

How should he have responded.