Upfront about desires and intentions at the beginning

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, LaPi said:

. Also, maybe worth to add, he's not in a good place mentally - he's seeing a therapist, he's often sad and overwhelmed about responsibilities and everyday life. 

It seems like you pinpointed the beginning of the end. 

He was already trying to tiptoe out with the "it's me, not you" explanation.

It also seems like he had difficulties with intensity. 

Since he did marry and have kids, commitment doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

Some personalities just don't gel. For example intense people and someone like him.

[chillii]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:30 AM, LaPi said:

He wanted out? That's odd. If he wanted out, why inviting me over for the usual date, wanting me to spend the night, reach out to me everyday and so on. If he wanted out, he could have fade away...like many do. It's disgusting, but many do that. 

 

Nah , think that's just typical thread dramatizing that usually happens with all the over annualizing. He didn't set you up but he was pretty clear about not now and maybe not ever. Maybe not ever is the key for you , that's you he's talking about , he's told you right there all you need to know. lf the right girl come along he might change his mind later on but l doubt very much he's seeing you guys that way sorry. Sounds like he's quite happy to just go on seeing you casually but that's all he wants.

 

 

 

 

 

[introverted1]

16 hours ago, LaPi said:

Also, maybe worth to add, he's not in a good place mentally - he's seeing a therapist, he's often sad and overwhelmed about responsibilities and everyday life. 

 

You waited 24 PAGES to mention this?!?!

Honestly, you don't seem the least bit interested in what this man is feeling or going through except as it relates to you. 

You dumped him.  Just leave it alone now and let him find someone who actually cares about him and what he feels, wants, needs.

[Happy Lemming]

16 hours ago, LaPi said:

Also, maybe worth to add, he's not in a good place mentally - he's seeing a therapist, he's often sad and overwhelmed about responsibilities and everyday life.

OMG!!

If you knew this why in the world would you start with the "I don't like being single" talk on the third date and all the other "heavy" inquiries and commitment talk.

The poor guy is already overwhelmed by a "soon to be" ex-wife, two kids, the destruction of his finances and who knows what else, then you start in with the "I don't like being single" talk.  By the 8th date, his brain probably snapped in half. 

I really feel sorry for this guy... he's trying to date, have a little fun, find a diversion for all of the crap in his life and you start in with "commitment" stuff, which I'm now convinced he interpreted as "marriage" talk.

[SaraSays]

I would think the best thing to do from this point is to stop actively seeking a relationship, finalise your divorce, and focus on things that grow the soul and character, and bring a lot of warmth and self-confidence to life - volunteer to support the needy, train for a parachute jump or a triathlon, start a small business, pursue something creative just for the pleasure of making art, learn a new language, learn to code a basic application, fundraise in the community, learn to cook all of your favourite restaurant meals, and so on. There doesn't seem to be anything pressing for you, like a desire to try for children, so it seems you can spend a year or 2 focused on self-growth perhaps, and then see how your perspective has changed. You'll likely also have made many new friends and acquaintances at that point, which is always something enriching.

[Happy Lemming]

42 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

Honestly, you don't seem the least bit interested in what this man is feeling or going through except as it relates to you.

100% Agree!!

My girlfriend has a therapist she talks (zoom) to that helps her with certain problems/issues.  I know what subjects are "taboo" and I don't bring them up or put us in situations where the subject could come up.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Happy Lemming

[LaPi]

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

You waited 24 PAGES to mention this?!?!

Honestly, you don't seem the least bit interested in what this man is feeling or going through except as it relates to you. 

You dumped him.  Just leave it alone now and let him find someone who actually cares about him and what he feels, wants, needs.

Oh dear, seriously? You think I don’t care about him and how he feels. 
listen, this is just a lot of negativity from you and you have absolutely no context to say something like this at all. 
I do care, and we talked freely about our everyday struggles, in a safe and understanding way. 
So, to sum up, you are very wrong here. 

[LaPi]

Ok @Happy Lemming let’s slow down here. 
some of you are coming across very judgmental and I won’t engage. 
I’ll try to be clear: 

we are two people who like to share a lot about ourselves. Both of us . 

nobody pressured anything on anyone. 

we both have similar experiences and HE started talking about his ex and WHY and HOW the relationship ended on the very second date. I did not ask. 
HE started talking about finances on the VERY FIRST date. I did not ask. 

heavy talks? Maybe for you guys. But two people who share similar experiences, kids same age, pandemic struggles and such ... we were very chatty, both of us and we loved it. 

HE mentioned a couple of time his therapist and I responded to that “I’m glad that you are taking care of yourself, it’s a very good thing to do. Therapist are great help to unload some of our emotional burdens” 

If you guys think for 1 second that I don’t care about him, that I was judgemental or that I was pressuring him on something, you are very wrong. 
Just two people, talking friendly and openly about life and experiences. That’s all. 

[Gaeta]

When do you plan on messaging him? This was a short relationship, I wouldn't wait too long. Also I am seeing Ontario is going on full lock down, if you wait he may not be able to visit you for that talk. 

[Happy Lemming]

@LaPi Maybe this guy shouldn't have been dating at all...  I mean he has a lot on his plate, between the divorce, the kids, his finances, going to therapy... and who know what else.

My guess is he was looking for an escape, someone to laugh with, etc. He was probably enjoying himself while he was dating you and was temporarily happy. 

Neither of you should be discussing all of the "heavy" crap from your lives with each other, those discussions are for his attorney and therapist... not you.  So he did wrong there.

I do remember dating one woman that had just completed her divorce.  She babbled endlessly about her ex-husband, her attorney, etc. etc.  I told her that I didn't want to hear about it and that I was not her sounding board for these issues/problems.  She continued to vent and I dumped her.  For her, I think it was too soon for her to be out there dating, as she was not yet "healed" from the divorce process/aftermath.  I'm guessing your guy may be in the same place.

[LaPi]

15 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

When do you plan on messaging him? This was a short relationship, I wouldn't wait too long. Also I am seeing Ontario is going on full lock down, if you wait he may not be able to visit you for that talk. 

Later today. 

[Amanda141]

hello @LaPi ! Let me begin saying that even if I am younger than you (23 yo) I think and behave exactly like you when I am dating. I never multi-date and If I like the guy, I start daydreaming about him, want exclusivity and see where things are going. I don't have time to meaningless flings or ONS. I would SO like to be in a relationship!

Right now I am experiencing a situation similar to yours (except that neither me neither the guy I am seeing have been married or have kids). I think I am more involved than he is, and he wants to take things slow. I literally make countdowns before seeing him, I fantasize about our next date and daydream about the past ones. Everytime I see him I feel a special connection and butterflies in my stomach. On the other hand, I think he likes me but wants to go slower and I am not on top of his mind.

I am very emotional and sometimes irrational in love life. I mean, in general I have everything: a loving family, a stable job, friends, health... but there is one thing missing (love) and it drives me crazy. Sometimes too much. Sometimes I overreact and overanalyse things. 

I think that you should send him that text. Who cares if people think it's lame, too much or you shouldn't text him. There are no rules. If I were you I'd be also willing to know if there is still a chance. I don't like "what ifs" and I prefer to listen to my feeling, to my heart, even if it's wrong. Sometimes we just need to make mistakes like this. If we don't try, we never know. 

I honestly wish you the best and I hope he can realise what he could be missing!

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, SaraSays said:

I would think the best thing to do from this point is to stop actively seeking a relationship, finalise your divorce, and focus on things that grow the soul and character, and bring a lot of warmth and self-confidence to life

Agree. Working on oneself and tying up loose ends is an excellent idea.

[dramafreezone]

4 hours ago, LaPi said:

Oh dear, seriously? You think I don’t care about him and how he feels. 
listen, this is just a lot of negativity from you and you have absolutely no context to say something like this at all. 
I do care, and we talked freely about our everyday struggles, in a safe and understanding way. 
So, to sum up, you are very wrong here. 

Seems like some people are just now catching up to what I saw very early on.  I don't think you care what he wants.  I don't say that to be mean, but so that you can understand why things happened the way that they did.

I remember a nice B-list movie called Breakin All the Rules about 16 years ago.  In it there was a very profound conversation that the two main characters had:

Her: "Do you think communication is essential in love?"

Him: "No.  I think communication is essential to a relationship, but love doesn't care one way or the other."

Her: "Well, what does love care about?"

Him: "Itself."

The point of that conversation is what I mean when I say you don't care what he wants.  You care about this feeling of love that you have.  That's not the same as caring about the desires of the other person.

What complicates this is that you also want an exclusive relationship.   I'm not going to quote exact figures, but we all know the divorce rate in western culture is high, where as the divorce rate with arranged marriages is extremely low.  There are numerous studies on this like this one: https://www.brides.com/story/modern-arranged-marriages#:~:text=In the U.S.%2C while the,rate is only 1 percent.  Even adjusting by removiing forced marriages out of the equation the divorce rate is appreciably lower.

I don't say this to advocate for arranged marriages.  What I do believe is that there is a skill set required to maintain a relationship (that has nothing to do with love), and this skillset is underdeveloped in the majority of us.   Love is easy, it is effortless, it doesn't require any type of learning, education, training or discipline to be in love.  A relationship is difficult.  It requires a sense of purpose.  A relationship requires planning, thought, compromise, and patience.   I would not say you've demonstrated any of that at any point, including before you met him, in the early stages, or when you reached this bump in the road. 

You think that people that have been in these type of fairy-tale long term relationships have built it all on love, when the reality is these people have been taught relationship skills their entire lives.  They learned from parents that had healthy relationships.  When they meet the right person, they can be in love freely. because the actual skills required to maintain a relationship are second nature to them.  They've earned those relationships.  The most important skill that they have is identifying people that aren't fits for relationships.  They won't even make it to 8 dates.

I would think long and hard about the advice you're received in this thread.  I think those telling you not to settle for anything less than you deserve do not have your best interests at heart.   They're living vicariously through you.  This may sound mean, but you're 37, you're separated, and what have you gotten so far?   I'm sure you're a nice person, but we don't deserve things just because we want them.  Whatever we get is what we deserve.  If it is a relationship you want, you have to put in the work to get one, and you haven't put in the work.

You're vascillating between wanting love and wanting a relationship.  You can have love without a relationship, and you can have relationship without love.  So you actually do have to prioritze one over the other.  I think if you want a relationship, you need to ask yourself:

1. What type of man do I want?  How old is he?  Where is he in his life financially?

2. What does this type of man want from a woman? (this doesn't mean what you think he should want, it's what he actually wants, so talk to men in this particular demographic and ask them what they want in a woman.  Don't talk to your girlfriends, talk to ACTUAL MEN.  This is the type of purpose-driven effort that you need to put in).

3. Then ask yourself, can you offer what this type of man wants?

If instead you want to continue doing what hasn't been working for you, then that's your choice, but you can't be upset if you continue to not get the results that you want.  It's not that men are crap, or are deceitful, it's that you're are unprepared for the type of relationship you're seeking.

Edited April 17, 2021 by dramafreezone

[Stupidkupid]

Is this still going? 🤯

[Ami1uwant]

On 4/16/2021 at 4:25 PM, LaPi said:

I am not hyper focused on the end game. OMG why on earth saying something like "I want to find love again in my future eventually" is pressure for a man? 

No seriously, if I like a guy and he says to me that he's into me I DON'T FREAK OUT. 

Is not that I asked to meet his parents after a month, jeez. I told him I was into him and I was trying to make this "whatever it was" between us work. 

 

Saying that isn’t freaking out a guy

[Dis]

On 4/16/2021 at 11:55 AM, LaPi said:

So, to sum it up, telling him I wanted a partner in my future and opening up to him about my desires and goals was a mistake, I came on too strong, and I should never do that again even if it feels right and even if I think we are aligned. 
Because ultimately, you never really know, and it’s better to just go with the flow, always. 
even if you end up in a 6 months long “relationship” that goes literally no where?

I would be ok with that at 27. But I’m 37. 

What?!

 

Uhhh I hate some of the advice given on here because it's making you feel like by doing something completely reasonable and rational was wrong

 

No. And no you couldn't have changed the outcome by being more chill or by 'going with the flow' of any of this because at the end of the day he doesn't want what you want and if you continued with it you just would've gotten hurt. 

 

There is no way I would date a guy knowing I want a committed relationship and he doesn't but yeah...I just need to roll with that and hope for the best, hope he changes his mind after I get invested and stifle what I want as to not scare him off.... and then end up getting hurt anyway because duh...he didn't want what I wanted and magically didn't change his mind?? That's ridiculous. No. 

 

All the time on this forum we talk about how we need to take people at face value and not expect people to change who they are and what they want. So why are we suggesting to this poor woman that she should've just been the 'cool girl' and enjoyed what was going to be impending hurt and just proceed with him despite her better judgment because things could've developed past what this guy has clearly stated he wants. He never once wavered on any of this. 

 

Again, you did the right thing!  xoxo 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Dis

[SaraSays]

Am sure others will think differently. I don't think there has been "1 opinion" advocated. Certainly I don't see many posters sharing mine (which I don't mind at all). I also think it serves posters well to see there are other perspectives, even ones they strongly disagree with (otherwise, we can get lost in thinking only our perspective matters, without questioning why we think what we think). I'd also hate for a poster to make a decision about their real life based on a crescendo of feedback on the internet, as opposed to thinking through a variety of different perspectives, considering what resonates as right for them, and then making choices.

We don't suffer at all when we welcome different opinions to our own, mindful nothing here is extreme, and posters for the most part try their best to be helpful. The answer, if you disagree, is to discuss always.

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, SaraSays said:

I'd also hate for a poster to make a decision about their real life based on a crescendo of feedback on the internet, as opposed to thinking through a variety of different perspectives, considering what resonates as right for them, and then making choices.

The OP is contacting him... 

20 hours ago, LaPi said:

Later today. 

 

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, SaraSays said:

1 hour ago, SaraSays said:

thinking through a variety of different perspectives, considering what resonates as right for them, and then making choices.

She has decided to go ahead despite a wealth of posters suggesting she shouldn't...

Edited April 18, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quoted post

[LaPi]

Well I did, I sent him a text, telling him I was sad things went that way and I asked him to talk. 
He never replied. 
 

now, not only I know how incredibly disinterested he was about me and about what we had (which was nothing at this point), that I wasted an entire month and lots of energy opening up... 

but mostly importantly.. 

now I know what kind of immature and borderline rude person he is, not even responding to someone you developed an intimacy with, not even to say no thanks. 

considering I left his house hugging and kissing him (and vice versa), not yelling, name calling and throwing tantrums. 

way to be a man!! 
 

NEXT!! 

[SaraSays]

4 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Well I did, I sent him a text, telling him I was sad things went that way and I asked him to talk. 
He never replied. 
 

now, not only I know how incredibly disinterested he was about me and about what we had (which was nothing at this point), that I wasted an entire month and lots of energy opening up... 

but mostly importantly.. 

now I know what kind of immature and borderline rude person he is, not even responding to someone you developed an intimacy with, not even to say no thanks. 

considering I left his house hugging and kissing him (and vice versa), not yelling, name calling and throwing tantrums. 

way to be a man!! 
 

NEXT!! 

He was under no obligation to reply - you ended your relationship autonomously, without his say so. He is now focusing his time and energy elsewhere. He's fine to do that. He is not a bad person for doing that. Most people would say to not look back, once something is over, and there's a lot of psychological theory in support of that being the best path forward.

You did have something. It is, however, now over. No time is wasted if we learn things from it - it is wasted if we ruminate about "what if", or if we seek to demonise people who didn't do anything harmful to us.

"Not yelling, not name-calling" <<<nothing admirable nor extraordinary here, noone should be doing those things to other people who've done nothing wrong, they are basic markers of decency.

He's neither immature nor rude, based on your posts about him. Why are you demeaning someone who, by your own admission, hasn't been unkind to you?

[LaPi]

16 minutes ago, SaraSays said:

He was under no obligation to reply - you ended your relationship autonomously, without his say so. He is now focusing his time and energy elsewhere. He's fine to do that. He is not a bad person for doing that. Most people would say to not look back, once something is over, and there's a lot of psychological theory in support of that being the best path forward.

You did have something. It is, however, now over. No time is wasted if we learn things from it - it is wasted if we ruminate about "what if", or if we seek to demonise people who didn't do anything harmful to us.

"Not yelling, not name-calling" <<<nothing admirable nor extraordinary here, noone should be doing those things to other people who've done nothing wrong, they are basic markers of decency.

He's neither immature nor rude, based on your posts about him. Why are you demeaning someone who, by your own admission, hasn't been unkind to you?

He has being unkind. 
it’s very unkind not to even respond to someone who “meant something to you” and she is asking to talk. At least say no. True, there is no obligation to be kind to one another, but that doesn’t make it any less awful. 
All this time, he made me think something that was not there. 
people do that, actually most people I met, unfortunately, they lie their way into someone’s life. That’s also what narcissistic do and they do exist. 
I ended the relationship autonomously, true. And apparently he was VERY OK with it. Ahaha, wow. 

[SaraSays]

5 minutes ago, LaPi said:

He has being unkind. 
it’s very unkind not to even respond to someone who “meant something to you” and she is asking to talk. At least say no. True, there is no obligation to be kind to one another, but that doesn’t make it any less awful. 
All this time, he made me think something that was not there. 
people do that, actually most people I met, unfortunately, they lie their way into someone’s life. That’s also what narcissistic do and they do exist. 
I ended the relationship autonomously, true. And apparently he was VERY OK with it. Ahaha, wow. 

He didn't make you think anything - you chose to think things, without checking, and your imagination ran wild, despite it being clear that nothing of substance exists in the first 3 months, as we're all wearing rose-tinted glasses. You created an illusion it made no sense to create so early on during the limerence period.

It's not unkind that he didn't respond now that things have ended - you're reacting badly because he has set a boundary. You finished things. He has closed the chapter, and he's not a bad person for doing that. You had a respectful goodbye already. It ended fine. He was kind to you til the end. You should, perhaps, be more careful in future, before autonomously declaring something is over, if you don't mean it. He's taking you at your word - I guess most people with self-esteem and other things going on in life would react the same.

By your own account, this man didn't lie to you, and we've no business speculating about psychological diagnosis like "narcissism". Psychologists study for years, before they're allowed to use such terms. It does great harm to the profession, and to those suffering with this mental condition, to have terms like this thrown around on the internet willy-nilly.

You're hurting. That's clear. It might be useful to ask yourself what part your behaviour and decisions have played in you feeling that way, as there's an opportunity for personal growth.

[Gaeta]

I am sorry for your pain. 

You knew there were a chance he'd not reply and that none reply was suppose to help you move on. 

You are broken up, he is 100% entitled to not reply. You may want to make it about you and him being rude to you but it's not, he does that out of self preservation. He knows you are not compatible and it's useless for him to debate about it further. He's working toward in own closure, which is what you should do as well. 

This is not time wasted. It's actually a huge learning period for you and you should try to self analyze your role in this.