Upfront about desires and intentions at the beginning

[LaPi]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The OP is still married. Personally I thinks it's pretty rich to try to nail someone down after 4 weeks and 8 dates when still legally married. ("piece of paper" or not) Then when he pumps the breaks he's a player who led her on? 

I wasn’t nailing anybody down. 
why are you trying to say that being in a loving relationship is bad? The only time I’m “afraid” of a relationship, is because I’m not into the guy. 
Again, if you are not enjoying the ride, you can end things at any point, it doesn’t matter how committed you are. 

[Versacehottie]

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The OP is still married. Personally I thinks it's pretty rich to try to nail someone down after 4 weeks and 8 dates when still legally married. ("piece of paper" or not) Then when he pumps the breaks he's a player who led her on? 

I agree. The "piece of paper" was important enough to each of them to have issued the first time around (whatever their nationality). That alone says that at one point in their lives they value marriage, they desired marriage.

OP, can absolutely do whatever she wants (which i have said a few times). I'm guessing she is stuck between a flawed belief system (ie if he doesn't commit to me at this point and under these circumstances, he never will and he is playing me) which misled her to have the discussion and come to those conclusions about him AND what she would like to do.

If she really believes her belief, the choice is obvious, walk away, don't look back.

[cleverusername]

5 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Well he knew all of that from the very beginning. 
If you don’t want all of that, just don’t date me. 
why even saying that we are dating??

Because it's been 2 months and 8 dates not 3/4 of a year. Instead of letting him go at a pace he was comfortable you put him on the spot and made him make a decision. When that decision was ambiguous, probably because he likes you but wanted to protect himself from becoming overly invested, you left him.

[LaPi]

18 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I just learned this recently.  When two people are "feeling it" with each other, and that energy is there between them, such discussions about exclusivity, commitment, serious are NOT "scary."   It's never too soon to discuss it, even early in, let alone run from it. 

If they are, then they are not feeling it the way you are and not the right person, move on.

Example:  my late beloved dad met the love of his life while married to my mom.  You think that stopped him from pursuing her?  No, it's did not.  He divorced my mom and married the woman a year later, she became my stepmom and the absolute love of his life until his death, may he RIP.

And while it resulted in the marriage ending, and sadness for our family, I and at least two of my brothers are REALLY happy he got to experience this type of love in his lifetime, some people never do.

All this crap about "it's too soon" to discuss is bullshyt. When it's right, it's never too soon.

LaPi, you did the right thing.  There's someone more right for you out there and now you have an opportunity to find him. ❤️

 

I agree 100%. 
just imagine his own experience. His wife had an emotional affair while still married, and now she lives with this new man and they bought a house together. 
So assuming, for this new man, the fact that he fell for a married woman, did not change the fact that he fell for her. 
there is no too soon, there are no rules. If you are feeling it you are feeling it. 
And I was feeling it  he was not. 

[SumGuy]

1 minute ago, LaPi said:

Nope, I said I know what I want, I want a partner in my future.

I saw that.  The you said not sure it was him and not now. 

Quote

And he said “nope, I am not sure I will ever want that. Maybe, or maybe not, I enjoy your company but that’s it, sorry” 

Did he really say it that way?  You original post it sound more like what a lot of people going through stuff would say to be honest, they don't know...except they know not now...which is what you said, not now.   I only go to page 3 or so here, but saw where you said he talked about all the benefits of a partner...so it seems to me that it is not nope/never...but honestly does not know about the future.

I wans't there but from what have read so far, to me, sounds like you are spinning out conclusions based on a few words and not going with his actions and all his other words.  Heck the sleaziest least trustful player is excellent at saying the right words.

Quote

He was seeing our dating as casual and NSA

Did he say that?  Is he saying he doesn't want exclusivity?  I'd swear I read you said he wanted to date you exclusively.  

Sure if he is rejecting exclusivity that can be a deal breaker.  I didn't get that from what have read you said he said so far.

[Versacehottie]

4 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I wasn’t nailing anybody down. 
why are you trying to say that being in a loving relationship is bad? The only time I’m “afraid” of a relationship, is because I’m not into the guy. 
Again, if you are not enjoying the ride, you can end things at any point, it doesn’t matter how committed you are. 

The bolded is in direct opposition to the points you've been making throughout this thread. And if you feel this way, why not go on date #9 and hey maybe even date #10.

 

[Versacehottie]

1 minute ago, SumGuy said:

Did he say that?  Is he saying he doesn't want exclusivity?  I'd swear I read you said he wanted to date you exclusively. 

Sure if he is rejecting exclusivity that can be a deal breaker.  I didn't get that from what have read you said he said so far.

I didn't get that he said that either. 

OP, I don't understand why you are trying to make him into a bad guy and you the good guy. ON your interpretation, you just want different things.

Mind you, your interpretation can absolutely be wrong but if you insist that it isn't. This is beyond easy. Walk away, he's not for you.

[lana-banana]

17 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The OP is still married. Personally, I think it's pretty rich to try to nail someone down after 4 weeks and 8 dates when still legally married. ("piece of paper" or not) Then when he pumps the breaks he's a player who led her on? 

She is separated. It's not remotely the same. I know someone whose divorce was initiated in 2019 and just completed last week. I also know several people who met their now-spouses while separated.

Nobody said this guy was a player (or at least I certainly haven't said it). It's just that he wasn't feeling it and she was, and if he had been feeling it then things would have gone differently.

[LaPi]

1 minute ago, Versacehottie said:

I didn't get that he said that either. 

OP, I don't understand why you are trying to make him into a bad guy and you the good guy. ON your interpretation, you just want different things.

Mind you, your interpretation can absolutely be wrong but if you insist that it isn't. This is beyond easy. Walk away, he's not for you.

I’m not trying to make him a bad guy. 
Here is what I think: if I like someone for real and I feel butterflies when I see him, I automatically see potential in having a relationship with him. To me, a relationship is not a bad thing, it’s not scary, it’s comfortable, it feels nice, it’s loving and supportive. You stop wondering if that person actually likes you, you are open and honest, you are yourself. 
Yes, you can get hurt, but it’s worth the risk. 
 

now, since I see relationships this way, I’m having an hard time understanding why others see them as something you should not get into. I know I’m not open minded about it, I just don’t understand it. 

[LaPi]

16 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

The bolded is in direct opposition to the points you've been making throughout this thread. And if you feel this way, why not go on date #9 and hey maybe even date #10.

 

What I meant is: no matter how invested you are in a relationship, you shouldn’t feel nailed down, trapped, cornered and stuff like that. 
If you don’t like your relationship anymore, you talk about it and you leave. 

[cleverusername]

12 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I’m not trying to make him a bad guy. 
Here is what I think: if I like someone for real and I feel butterflies when I see him, I automatically see potential in having a relationship with him. To me, a relationship is not a bad thing, it’s not scary, it’s comfortable, it feels nice, it’s loving and supportive. You stop wondering if that person actually likes you, you are open and honest, you are yourself. 
Yes, you can get hurt, but it’s worth the risk. 
 

now, since I see relationships this way, I’m having an hard time understanding why others see them as something you should not get into. I know I’m not open minded about it, I just don’t understand it. 

You literally put him on the spot and made him give you a decision in the moment about your future together. He tried to give a diplomatic answer in the hope you would ease up, and you doubled down and left him. Again, there are 3 kids, 2 ex-spouses, 1 person still married, 2 months, and 8 dates involved in him making this decision, and you gave him one conversation to decide. 

You weren't willing to put it aside or talk about it some more as the relationship progressed. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by cleverusername

[Versacehottie]

9 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I’m having an hard time understanding why others see them as something you should not get into.

This is your interpretation of what he said. You could absolutely be wrong in your interpretation.

 

4 minutes ago, LaPi said:

What I meant is: no matter how invested you are in a relationship, you shouldn’t feel nailed down, trapped, cornered and stuff like that. 

Again, this is your interpretation of what he said/meant. I didn't see that in what he said.

You are seeing the situation as "about you" and in black and white terms...as in if he doesn't agree and completely commit to whatever you meant, then it means he doesn't like you and won't move forward with you. ON/OFF, BLACK/WHITE.  You asked for his stance and then disregarded by interpreting it as you saw fit. Since you were asking what he thought, I would take what he said as "closer" to his truth.  And it sounded like a maybe to me, we will see in time.  

If you are unwilling to take the risk further based on that stance and that answer from him, of course you should stop seeing him. I don't see it as a horrible answer. It actually seems reasonable given the circumstances. Any relationship is going to be a risk and could stop (just as you said) at any time.  It seems to me like he doesn't want to overpromise.

That said, the fact that the conversation generated this much doubt and resentment, (and probably pressure for him), will ALSO now probably have an impact.  Like you can't erase that it happened.  

[LaPi]

7 minutes ago, cleverusername said:

You literally put him on the spot and made him give you a decision in the moment about your future together. He tried to give a diplomatic answer in the hope you would ease up, and you doubled down and left him. Again, there are 3 kids, 2 ex-spouses, 1 person still married, 2 months, and 8 dates involved in him making this decision, and you gave him one conversation to decide. 

You weren't willing to put it aside or talk about it some more as the relationship progressed. 

This is how you see it. 
I didn’t put him on the spot. 
I just learned (to my surprise) that we wanted different outcomes out of our dating and that wasn’t right for me because I was literally catching feelings. Too soon to catch feelings? Who can say what’s right or wrong about how a person is feeling? 

[cleverusername]

13 minutes ago, LaPi said:

This is how you see it. 
I didn’t put him on the spot. 
I just learned (to my surprise) that we wanted different outcomes out of our dating and that wasn’t right for me because I was literally catching feelings. Too soon to catch feelings? Who can say what’s right or wrong about how a person is feeling? 

What about his feelings? Do those not count? He never said he didn't want a relationship with you, he said he wasn't sure of commiting to a life together. Probably because he was put on the spot and had 500 other considerations to think about in the span of 20 seconds. Again, he gave you an answer with the hope you ease up and give him time to think about it further, and you doubled down right in the moment.

 

You- "Yes/No, we're getting married"

Him- "I'm not sure... maybe? We'll see how things go. It's a lot to think about. Lets enjoy the now"

You- "Thats not a yes or no answer, I'm leaving you"

Edited April 14, 2021 by cleverusername

[SumGuy]

2 minutes ago, LaPi said:

...
I just learned (to my surprise) that we wanted different outcomes out of our dating and that wasn’t right for me because I was literally catching feelings. Too soon to catch feelings? ...

Not to badger it but you didn't learn that you wanted different outcomes.  You learned he wasn't sure, very different than no, or never...and frankly from what I read a lot of reason to think yes eventually.    And though you want the committed relationship, even for you it is not now, but eventually and maybe not him.     Also....for where you are (8 dates) do you have the behavior of a committed relationship?  That is more important in my view than a very honest answer of don't know.    

[introverted1]

 

18 hours ago, LaPi said:

 The way he acted with me from the very beginning... sentences like "I am so happy with you" - "I am so glad I have you in my life" - "Of course we are dating" - he was opening up and sharing more about himself, his kids, his family .... HOW THE HECK one would think he was not as invested as me?

 

18 hours ago, LaPi said:

 And both of us weren't using the app while dating each other. I had all the sign he was not a player... and yet. 

 

You had a promising start with this guy.  In ONE MONTH of dating you established exclusivity, shared that you were invested in him and he reciprocated (as evidenced by your post  above), were sexually and emotionally intimate..  what else are you expecting after 8 dates?! 

3 hours ago, LaPi said:

I did not brought up marriage! I’m not even divorced yet!! Ahaha not at all. 
 

You've said that both you and he are still married. Regardless whether it's just a formality at this point, many people are not willing to consider a new lifetime commitment while still untangling the detritus of their current one. 

This reads like many other threads here:  women have a mental script they expect men to follow and, when the men dare to deviate, the women bail and paint the guy as the villain.  It strikes me that you sabotaged a good thing.

 

 

 

[LaPi]

9 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

This is your interpretation of what he said. You could absolutely be wrong in your interpretation.

 

Again, this is your interpretation of what he said/meant. I didn't see that in what he said.

You are seeing the situation as "about you" and in black and white terms...as in if he doesn't agree and completely commit to whatever you meant, then it means he doesn't like you and won't move forward with you. ON/OFF, BLACK/WHITE.  You asked for his stance and then disregarded by interpreting it as you saw fit. Since you were asking what he thought, I would take what he said as "closer" to his truth.  And it sounded like a maybe to me, we will see in time.  

If you are unwilling to take the risk further based on that stance and that answer from him, of course you should stop seeing him. I don't see it as a horrible answer. It actually seems reasonable given the circumstances. Any relationship is going to be a risk and could stop (just as you said) at any time.  It seems to me like he doesn't want to overpromise.

That said, the fact that the conversation generated this much doubt and resentment, (and probably pressure for him), will ALSO now probably have an impact.  Like you can't erase that it happened.  

But it is about me and him, the two people involved. 
He wants only casual dating and I want us to be able to get close emotionally. 

I told him “I’m not interested in dating multiple people, I am interested in investing in someone I like and see if it works”

It seems to me he doesn’t want to be invested and he doesn’t want me to feel feelings, so yeah. We want different things. 
 

[SumGuy]

1 minute ago, LaPi said:

....
He wants only casual dating and I want us to be able to get close emotionally. 

I told him “I’m not interested in dating multiple people, I am interested in investing in someone I like and see if it works”

I must have missed something because I thought you two were just seeing each other, that you were already exclusive and he was on board with it and even wanted it.

I took from what you said he said that he was also wanting to see if it works.

Quote

It seems to me he doesn’t want to be invested and he doesn’t want me to feel feelings, so yeah. We want different things. 

Seems is a good way to put it, as he already seemed pretty invested to me and likes you so not sure where you get the idea he doesn't want you to feel feelings.

It seems to me you want this to end, that you want this negative interpretation, fair enough, I just can't agree it is the only one or the most likely one from what I have read here.  

In the end it is your life, and your decision is likely for the best either way because if you are right, you dodged a bullet and if you are wrong he dodged a bullet.

[LaPi]

3 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

You had a promising start with this guy.  In ONE MONTH of dating you established exclusivity, shared that you were invested in him and he reciprocated (as evidenced by your post  above), were sexually and emotionally intimate..  what else are you expecting after 8 dates?! 

Correction: 

1) In one month of dating we established exclusivity because of covid and we needed to tell each other that, for safety reasons. 
2) I shared I was invested in him, he said I like you and I enjoy your company, but I don’t think I want a relationship now or ever (aka I want just casual).
 

Sorry, but not exactly the response you would expect after you say “I like you and I think you are awesome and I want you to know that I hope this work out between us”. 
 

An acceptable answer would be: “me too” 

and I said all those things, because I genuinely thought he was exactly on the same page as me. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Sorry, but not exactly the response you would expect after you say “I like you and I think you are awesome and I want you to know that I hope this work out between us”. An acceptable answer would be: “me too” 

The truth seems like a perfectly acceptable answer. Better than stringing you along for months.

[LaPi]

2 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

 

11 minutes ago, LaPi said:

....
He wants only casual dating and I want us to be able to get close emotionally. 

I told him “I’m not interested in dating multiple people, I am interested in investing in someone I like and see if it works”

I must have missed something because I thought you two were just seeing each other, that you were already exclusive and he was on board with it and even wanted it.

 

That’s what I thought too based on his actions and words. 
That’s why I was so surprised when he backed off the second I was more vulnerable with him. 
and I actually told him “I’m surprised we are not on the same page” and he replied “yeah, I’m sorry”. 
what was I supposed to do? Stay anyway? 
saying “well, I just told you I am invested in this and you said you are not really... but that’s ok, let’s just continue to f**k and let’s be it” ?? 
I don’t think so. 

[introverted1]

Just now, LaPi said:

Correction: 

1) In one month of dating we established exclusivity because of covid and we needed to tell each other that, for safety reasons. 
2) I shared I was invested in him, he said I like you and I enjoy your company, but I don’t think I want a relationship now or ever (aka I want just casual).
 

Sorry, but not exactly the response you would expect after you say “I like you and I think you are awesome and I want you to know that I hope this work out between us”. 
 

An acceptable answer would be: “me too” 

and I said all those things, because I genuinely thought he was exactly on the same page as me. 

@LaPi Each time you relay the exchange, the content and tone change.  In your OP, you said

Quote

he responded that he doesn't know what he wants, if he will ever want a partner, that he's having a good time with me, and "maybe things will go well, maybe not" he's just not sure

It seems that the more invested you become in your interpretation of what he meant when he said he wasn't sure -- which is totally reasonable after 1 month -- you embellish his responses as you've done in the top quote by adding "aka I want just casual." This reference to casual appears to be your interpretation, not something he actually said.

It may be moot for this relationship as it is probably beyond salvage, but you might want to consider how you can temper your need for certainty as you move forward with other men.  It still seems to me that this guy did everything right for a month in, and yet failed your test of responding correctly to your questions about wanting a lifetime partner.  I am not convinced that this is because your relationship couldn't have evolved to that point, and tend to think it is more a case of too much, too soon.

Good luck!

[LaPi]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The truth seems like a perfectly acceptable answer. Better than stringing you along for months.

Agreed. That’s why I left him. 

[Versacehottie]

10 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

This reads like many other threads here:  women have a mental script they expect men to follow and, when the men dare to deviate, the women bail and paint the guy as the villain.  

1000%. Awesome post.

I think if the guy did something that was truly outside the OP's comfort zone and she knew 100% I don't want to continue, then no reason to debate it here, she would stop seeing him.

Right now she sees his answer as a rejection and so sabotage the whole thing. If it didn't meet her standards, walk away, no need to debate.  We are here discussing this because OP deep down must have a niggling that she could be wrong about his intentions or perhaps pulled the trigger too quickly--yet inexplicably she wants to remain steadfast.  OP, you can't have it both ways. If you consider the fact that perhaps you misinterpreted what he means, or that it's simply too soon for HIM to know, even if you do, you open yourself to another chance.  If you are unwilling to accept that possibility there is no reason to debate because your conscious and belief system already tells you how to handle this: walking away because he cannot give you what you want. Which is it?

[glows]

My read on it is that he was caught on the spot and the answer he gave was pretty frank. And that's something to be thankful for too. You don't want a man who tells you one thing but it isn't completely honest. 

The "I understand. I'm sorry." from him was also kind of lame. This would sound to me more like he's interested in enjoying your company for now but he's still on the look out for a better match and that is perfectly fine too but not necessarily the same wavelength as you. 

Why stress over this any more? Get the divorce though because that could open up more options for you. When I was separated I was self-conscious of my marital status and it never felt quite right dating anyone or meeting anyone. I worked hard to get that divorce and make sure things were completed and through. If I'm serious about a guy I wouldn't want him to be separated only. This is just my two cents. You are absolutely entitled to your happiness. It's all a journey.