Upfront about desires and intentions at the beginning

[Alpacalia]

10 minutes ago, Shining One said:

The "if you really liked them, you would do X" reasoning is fundamentally flawed. Using that logic, if she really liked him, she would have continued dating him on his terms.

Not really.

Since her emotions are more developed than his at this stage, she stands a greater chance of getting hurt. That's all the more reason for her to dial it back.

[Dis]

11 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Agreed. Except that I do want to compromise a little because I care about him. That's what I am trying to figure our here with you guys. 
I am second guessing myself I pulled the trigger too fast - meaning I decided to end things.

 

Maybe I should ask him - "what is your proposal with this, what you want to do?" 

 

Or... I should not say the word proposal LOL !!! 

But he didn't want to compromise though

 

Otherwise he would've done so when you called it off

 

That was his last chance and he didn't want to take it 

[spiderowl]

20 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Oh he was burned badly in the past - his ex wife. He's still hurting, I am sure, after she left 2 years ago

But once again, if your heart is not open to let someone in, if you are emotionally unavailable, it's just tremendously selfish to start anything with someone who is emotionally available and open for a relationship. And he might be very selfish on this. 

His wife left him.  This is significant.  It might mean that at some level he is still hankering after her or it might mean that he hates her for leaving him.  Hard to know.  He may still be wresting with his feelings about her and their relationship.  Despite what people often say about men being more likely to have affairs, play away, etc., men do seem to get more attached once committed to a relationship.  They will even have affairs but with no intention of ever leaving their wife (until she boots him out of course).

The point I am trying to make is that he may not feel emotionally ready for any commitment due to what has happened in the past.  He has probably shoved this to the back of his mind.  This is crunch time now and he's going to be mulling things over.  Maybe he will come to some mental resolution about whether he is truly able to move on emotionally now.  It is one thing to play at being in a relationship; it is another to truly BE in one.

Edited April 14, 2021 by spiderowl

[Shining One]

3 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

Not really.

Since her emotions are more developed than his at this stage, she stands a greater chance of getting hurt. That's all the more reason for her to dial it back.

I wasn't advocating that she do that. I was using it as an example of the flaw in the "if you really like them, you'll do X" reasoning.

I believe she did the right thing by ending things once she determined they wanted different things.

[LaPi]

Probably, in this particular case (him being left by the wife and still hurting) - instead of asking "what are you looking for", I should have asked "Are you feeling ready and open to let someone else into your life"? 

I am pretty sure I asked him that in the past, his response was always something in the line of  "I would never go back with my ex, I am not still hung up on that"

Thinking all back, I think he said promising things at the beginning and yesterday just pulled himself away with the I don't-know-what-I-want crap. That's where I got confused. 

[Dis]

3 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Probably, in this particular case (him being left by the wife and still hurting) - instead of asking "what are you looking for", I should have asked "Are you feeling ready and open to let someone else into your life"? 

I am pretty sure I asked him that in the past, his response was always something in the line of  "I would never go back with my ex, I am not still hung up on that"

Thinking all back, I think he said promising things at the beginning and yesterday just pulled himself away with the I don't-know-what-I-want crap. That's where I got confused. 

It might have been that he lost interest in you. Maybe he saw that potential in you which is why he said the things you mentioned previously, and later decided against it. 

 

I've seen some guys who in the beginning say they only want casual but after meeting someone they really like they're okay with committing

 

But IMO, if you're looking for something committed it's best to stay away from these types from the get go. If anyone's intentions didn't match up with mine on OLD, I wouldn't even give them a second thought...left! 

[Wiseman2]

It seems like you got too attached too soon. You have been on 8 dates and you know way too much about his psycho ex.

Stop and reflect why you jump in with both feet so fast, only to keep getting burned.

You clearly overinvest way too soon. Sorry but that can come across as desperate.

Dating should be you observing and vetting him. Not desperately seeking premature commitments..

[Dis]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

It seems like you got too attached too soon. You have been on 8 dates and you know way too much about his psycho ex.

Stop and reflect why you jump in with both feet so fast, only to keep getting burned.

You clearly overinvest way too soon. Sorry but that can come across as desperate.

Dating should be you observing and vetting him. Not desperately seeking premature commitments..

I don't think she did though

 

By 8 weeks things should be defined and there should be an increasing sense of knowing where the person is at and vice versa

 

She didn't ask to move in, she asked for exclusivity "in the future" which IMO is selling herself short and setting the bar low 

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Dis said:

 is selling herself short and setting the bar low 

Agree. The exclusive talk is fine. But jumping in this much is not.

[Annonymous1234]

1 hour ago, Dis said:

I don't think she did though

 

By 8 weeks things should be defined and there should be an increasing sense of knowing where the person is at and vice versa

 

She didn't ask to move in, she asked for exclusivity "in the future" which IMO is selling herself short and setting the bar low 

That is not correct - she has only known him one month. Eight dates in a month, as I understand it. To me, it seems early days to try and define the relationship. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Selkie1111

[Dis]

1 minute ago, Selkie1111 said:

That is not correct - she has only known him one month. Eight dates in a month.

So? That's plenty of time to decide if they want to be exclusive 

 

I had a few guys ask me after a few dates...if a guy wants you he'll ask 

[Annonymous1234]

19 minutes ago, Dis said:

So? That's plenty of time to decide if they want to be exclusive 

 

I had a few guys ask me after a few dates...if a guy wants you he'll ask 

I've only read this thread once - but I didn't get the impression the issue was about being "exclusive". It appeared to be more about her asking around issues of commitment and long-term, inferring specifically with him. I still think this is way too soon after one month. But hey . . . that's just me.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Selkie1111

[Dis]

1 minute ago, Selkie1111 said:

I've only read this thread once - but I didn't get the impression the issue was about being "exclusive". It appeared to be more about her asking around issues of commitment and long-term. I still think this is way too soon after one month. But hey . . . that's just me.

Exclusive/commitment/DTR all the same 

[Gaeta]

4 hours ago, Selkie1111 said:

It appeared to be more about her asking around issues of commitment and long-term, inferring specifically with him. 

No, it was not about him specifically. She asked him what was his goal in terms of relationship in general, he said he doesn't think he wants one. 

[d0nnivain]

@LaPi

I'm a late to this party & confess that I skipped from page 1 to page 5.  Since you are new I will also point out that I am a woman. 

I think you went about this inelegantly & that spooked this guy.  Do you know the one about a frog & boiling water?  If you throw a live frog into boiling water it will immediately hop out.  But if you put the frog in cool water & slowly turn up the heat, it will sit there & boil to death.  

This guy was the frog in my analogy.   Things were going well & he was saying all the right things.  I understand why you thought it was "safe" to say what you did.  But you need to be cautious with men early on.  Only one month in, even with 8 dates, it was all too fast for serious talks about the future.  One month in you don't talk about the future farther than the next month.  Maybe it might have been OK to talk about doing something together over Memorial Day weekend or make vague references to summer plans but that was as far as you should have gone 

I understand that you weren't talking about him per se when your expressed your desire for a long term partner, which is a perfectly reasonable desire,  but what he heard is that you wanted to get married next weekend.  I know that is not what you said or what you meant but it's how he felt & why he got scared. 

At most you could have confirmed that you two were exclusive.  I agree that 2 years is far to long at 38 to wait to talk about the future but 2 months is the earlies you can raise this.  Frankly based on some of his statements I don't see why you had to have the conversation at all.   His actions were good so you should not have needed future words this early.  Many times the words & the labels spook otherwise good guys.  IMO people need the "are we exclusive" words but not the "where do you see yourself in 5 years."   

If he comes back of his own accord & apologizes to you for over-reacting, if you want to give him another chance, do so but for you to reach out in a few days to fix this, you will do yourself a disservice.  Instead of making things better, even if you reconcile, you will teach him that you have no self-respect & you will put up with anything even rejection because you are desperate to keep a man & not be alone.  I am not saying you are those things but, again, his perception is his reality.  Despite the word choice you employ, how he sees the situation is what matters from his perspective so you do not want to chase here 

[SaraSays]

10 hours ago, LaPi said:

Yeah I thought so too. But why seeing me consistently every week, saying that we were dating, admitting not seeing anyone else (I would hope so, in a pandemic!), checking in everyday via text and overall being wonderful with me, telling me how much he's enjoying my company... if he doesn't like me enough to have a relationship. ?? I am never like that with someone I like just ok and it's meh. 

He's an independent person, who can construct his ideas about life, and what's a meaningful life, however he likes. I don't believe it helps us to think "I would do x and it would mean y, so why doesn't the same apply to him?". That elevates us above the other person, I think, rather than reflect us seeing them as an equal. From what you've posted above, he hasn't done anything wrong. You're both just not a good match for each other.

[LaPi]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

because you are desperate to keep a man & not be alone.

Or maybe because I miss him specifically? People are not just interchangeable. I am no desperate, many others are just a swipe away on my phone. 

That's not the point. The point is that I feel we had something good going on and that's rare. 

I feel hurt nonetheless, because I am reading here "He did nothing wrong" - well I am not sure. He let me clearly believe he was very interested in me, he was affectionate, open and sincere. ... and the second I get vulnerable he just retract everything saying "no no, I am not sure I want anything, sorry!!" 

That's not fair. Communication is important, but communication doesn't always happen with words. Sometimes gesture, the way you look at someone. You get it. 

[SaraSays]

2 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Or maybe because I miss him specifically? People are not just interchangeable. I am no desperate, many others are just a swipe away on my phone. 

That's not the point. The point is that I feel we had something good going on and that's rare. 

I feel hurt nonetheless, because I am reading here "He did nothing wrong" - well I am not sure. He let me clearly believe he was very interested in me, he was affectionate, open and sincere. ... and the second I get vulnerable he just retract everything saying "no no, I am not sure I want anything, sorry!!" 

That's not fair. Communication is important, but communication doesn't always happen with words. Sometimes gesture, the way you look at someone. You get it. 

Did he let you believe, or did you simply believe? What role did you play in this disconnect? Could you find any areas you could improve your behaviour and thinking, perhaps, next time, in order that things are clearer for you?

[LaPi]

1 hour ago, SaraSays said:

He's an independent person, who can construct his ideas about life, and what's a meaningful life, however he likes. I don't believe it helps us to think "I would do x and it would mean y, so why doesn't the same apply to him?". That elevates us above the other person, I think, rather than reflect us seeing them as an equal. From what you've posted above, he hasn't done anything wrong. You're both just not a good match for each other.

I am not elevating myself above him. But what he did was "false advertising". Do you think it's correct and fair to act like you are all invested with someone, except you are not? 

Don't you think that gives the wrong message? If I knew he was casual with me, I would have never brought up anything. Makes sense? 

One day he even told me "You are such a wonderful and amazing person, I am scared I don't want to do things to push you away". 

[introverted1]

Per your posts:

• You were dating for a month
• You were exclusive
• He was no longer on the dating app
• You were enjoying time together ~2 times/week
• You were sexually and emotionally intimate

This all says "budding committed relationship" to me.  My take is that because you already had all of the above happening, he interpreted your words as meaning that you need something more/different, made an assumption about what you wanted and/or its timing, and backed off.  I think your conversation was too much, too soon, and confusing to boot. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by introverted1

[LaPi]

6 minutes ago, SaraSays said:

Could you find any areas you could improve your behaviour and thinking

Yeah, by basically don't trust any words the other person says. Or anything the other person do until things are "official". I don't want to live in world where we are all players, we are all in mistrust with each other. I opened up with him because I though he was genuine, not because I am a fool. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by LaPi

[SaraSays]

2 minutes ago, LaPi said:

I am not elevating myself above him. But what he did was "false advertising". Do you think it's correct and fair to act like you are all invested with someone, except you are not? 

Don't you think that gives the wrong message? If I knew he was casual with me, I would have never brought up anything. Makes sense? 

One day he even told me "You are such a wonderful and amazing person, I am scared I don't want to do things to push you away". 

I am curious if you've reflected on whether you made any mistakes, that didn't serve your goals well, mindful we can never hope to control another human, nor know their intentions. What might you be able to try next time, that might help you to be clearer?

[LaPi]

7 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

you already had all of the above

yes, that is exactly what worries me. However it went like this: 

Him: "What do you want for your future?"
Me: "I want a partner"
Him: "Oh well, to be honest with you, I am not sure I want that, now or ever, maybe one day, but maybe not" 
Me: "wait, uh? I though you said your life would be so much better with a partner at one point" 
Him: "yeah, I said it, but that doesn't mean that I want it"
Me: ((confused AF)) "Well, I had no idea all of this between us was just casual dating, I don't want that and I need to stop seeing you"
Him: ((sad about what I said)) "Yes, I understand, I am sorry" 

It sound to me that yes he got scared, he backed off, and he decided to run for apparently no reason. I don't think me saying "I see a partner in my future" was too much, I was just being honest. 

[d0nnivain]

32 minutes ago, LaPi said:

Or maybe because I miss him specifically? People are not just interchangeable. I am no desperate, many others are just a swipe away on my phone. 

That's not the point. The point is that I feel we had something good going on and that's rare. 

I feel hurt nonetheless, because I am reading here "He did nothing wrong" - well I am not sure. He let me clearly believe he was very interested in me, he was affectionate, open and sincere. ... and the second I get vulnerable he just retract everything saying "no no, I am not sure I want anything, sorry!!" 

That's not fair. Communication is important, but communication doesn't always happen with words. Sometimes gesture, the way you look at someone. You get it. 

You didn't read the sentence following the phrase you quoted. 

I do not think you are desperate.  I said if you chase after him he will perceive you to be desperate.  There's a huge difference.  

You came on to this forum asking what happened, how did you read the tea leaves so poorly?   My opinion is that you moved too quickly.  Showing vulnerability to a stranger only 1 month in was too fast & it spooked him.  You would have been better served keeping your cards closer to your vest.  Absent any other choice, I don't recommend showing vulnerability or relying on a new SO before the 6 month mark.   Even then, there should have been a series of actions which indicate trust worthiness in other ways.  For example if you ask the other person to pick up a forgotten grocery item on their way over to your house, what is the reaction & do they come through.  I am not advocating deliberately "testing" somebody but in essence that is what happens as you take the time to get to know each other.

You liked him.  You felt that connection.  You were falling in love.  All of that is wonderful.   When you verbalized it, he freaked out which is clearly a wrong.  I'm not trying to convince you he is blameless. I am saying had you left well enough alone, you might still be together.  It wasn't "false advertising" so much as him not being ready to sign the contract just yet.  You spoke about too far into the future too early.  If you hadn't asked for the words, he wouldn't have bolted.  Again -- are we exclusive? which is legit at the 1 month mark also pre-sex, is different from talk of the future. Learn from this mistake & don't make it again in the next relationship but don't compound it here by chasing him now.    

Yes communication is important but so is timing.  Yours was off.  

If the above was exactly how the conversation went, when he said he wasn't sure, that was your cue to reassure him in the moment.  Instead of saying wait & everything else you said after that, it was you cue to be more nonchalant in that moment but not forever: 

"I like what we have now & fortunately we don't have to figure out the rest of our lives tonight.  As long as we're exclusive, for now I'm good.  At some point we're gonna have to talk about it again because you do know what I want eventually with the right person.  We'll have to see where you are.  More popcorn?"  

At no point did I say your expression that you wanted a partner in your future was invalid, just premature.  You were being honest but you need to understand your honesty & your timing scared him.  In the alternative he was sensing that you & him were not on the same page so he was bugging out before you got more attached.  

Edited April 14, 2021 by d0nnivain

[introverted1]

14 hours ago, LaPi said:

After a month and some of dating, and 8 amazing and very loving and romantic dates (sleeping in each other's house, holding hands while walking, stop the movie to kiss etc..) I told him I know what I wanted for me: I wanted a partner in my future, not sure yet if that partner will be him, but I definitely was seeing myself in a committed relationship at some point in the future. To my complete shock, he responded that he doesn't know what he wants, if he will ever want a partner, that he's having a good time with me, and "maybe things will go well, maybe not" he's just not sure and doesn't want a relationship, definitely not right now. I was asking for "right now"

 

19 minutes ago, LaPi said:

yes, that is exactly what worries me. However it went like this: 

Him: "What do you want for your future?"
Me: "I want a partner"
Him: "Oh well, to be honest with you, I am not sure I want that, now or ever, maybe one day, but maybe not" 
Me: "wait, uh? I though you said your life would be so much better with a partner at one point" 
Him: "yeah, I said it, but that doesn't mean that I want it"
Me: ((confused AF)) "Well, I had no idea all of this between us was just casual dating, I don't want that and I need to stop seeing you"
Him: ((sad about what I said)) "Yes, I understand, I am sorry"

This is confusing.  In your OP, you said that you initiated the conversation.  Now it seems you are saying he did.  In addition, your OP indicates that he said "maybe things will go well, maybe not" but your recent post has a completely different conversation.

My earlier response was based on your OP. 

Can you clarify which version of events is accurate?

Edited April 14, 2021 by introverted1