Women: If male mental strength is attractive then is poor mental health unattractive?

[Trail Blazer]

54 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@Trail BlazerSo, on asking what women want, how about you now go back to your girlfriend and ask what she'd think of you/how she'd react if you did end up going into a depression.  Would she lose attraction?  Would she think that you should just 'man up'?    Or would she be there to love you and support you through it?  

And how would her reaction affect the way you'd deal with this mental health crisis?   

 

I may well broach this topic with her again at some point.  However, I do not think I can really get an accurate answer by simply asking her if she'd lose attraction to me because I'd fall into a depression.  

Nobody would openly say that they'd lose attraction to someone they loved, instead of saying, "No, of course I would just want to support you."

My girlfriend has told me about one of her exes, and how he did suffer from mental health issues.  She was with him for eight years.  She supported him through it, but ask her if it affected her attraction levels, and she'll tell you that having to effectively "mother him" turned her off completely.

It comes back to our discussion where she told me that my mental strength was attractive.  To elaborate on the discussion, the context was around my ability to "get on with resolving an issue" I had instead of moping around and whining.

I suspect that her ex's mental health struggle, it renderer him quite ineffective when it came to resolving issues in his life that required mental strength and discipline to resolve.

So, without actually finding out for myself, I suspect that my girlfriend would offer me ongoing support for any mental health struggles, but I suspect that it would unconsciously affect her attraction levels towards me as it's pretty hard to view me as strong and capable when depression or the like would render me the opposite.

[dramafreezone]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Women connect and get to know each other deeply by sharing of feelings.    So when a woman wants this, she's wanting to connect with him on a deeper emotional level.  

Sure, I get that, but if it were in that guy's nature to communicate in that way, he would.  

In this day and age, there's no shortage of guys around ready and willing to share feelings readily.  If that's important then that's the type of guy she should be with.

You have to accept people as is, can't get them and try to fix them up to be an ideal, "well if I just tweak this part of him he'll be perfect."

[basil67]

1 minute ago, dramafreezone said:

Sure, I get that, but if it were in that guy's nature to communicate in that way, he would.  

In this day and age, there's no shortage of guys around ready and willing to share feelings readily.  If that's important then that's the type of guy she should be with.

You have to accept people as is, can't get them and try to fix them up to be an ideal, "well if I just tweak this part of him he'll be perfect."

Indeed.  This is all part of the mental gymnastics we go through when we are discovering that a partner is not suitable for us.   First, we identify what we want, then we figure out if that person can deliver it.   She needs to decide if she is OK without it, or whether she needs a different partner who can meet her needs.

 

[basil67]

15 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

My girlfriend has told me about one of her exes, and how he did suffer from mental health issues.  She was with him for eight years.  She supported him through it, but ask her if it affected her attraction levels, and she'll tell you that having to effectively "mother him" turned her off completely.

It comes back to our discussion where she told me that my mental strength was attractive.  To elaborate on the discussion, the context was around my ability to "get on with resolving an issue" I had instead of moping around and whining.

I suspect that her ex's mental health struggle, it renderer him quite ineffective when it came to resolving issues in his life that required mental strength and discipline to resolve.

I have depression and I believe it's my personal responsibility to keep myself in the best mental state possible for the sake of the relationship.   I would expect the same of a partner.  However, when we're talking about someone (of either gender) who doesn't seek help for their mental illness, or worse, medication/therapy isn't helping, it will cause great problems in a relationship.   There's no getting around that.

For the record, I left my ex-h due to certain behaviours which, with hindsight, I now believe were symptoms of chronic depression.  But this was back in the 80's before depression was recognised.   Working on the theory that my belief is correct, I do wonder if our marriage may have had a different outcome had there been modern dialogue around the condition and we'd realised that he needed professional help.    If the same happened to my now husband, I'd be encouraging him to get help.

Edited April 18, 2021 by basil67

[poppyfields]

I've read Brene Brown who's written books/articles on men and vulnerability; she's taken surveys given to men 30-60 in LTRs or marriages who lament about feeling they need to always be strong, stoic, never show weakness under any circumstances with their girlfriends and wives. 

A few men spoke of feelings of depression they needed to hide from their partners otherwise they're deemed as weak and pathetic and they noticed a significant shift in how their partners treated them whenever they attempted to communicate what they were feeling. 

Less attracted, less respected.  Even a repulsion of sorts which frankly I find sad and disappointing from my own gender but it is what it is as they say, I own I used to feel this way myself.

To compound the problem, the very fact that men have been taught and conditioned to hide weakness and/or feelings of shame, loss, depression has actually resulted in men falling into an even deeper downward spiral.

I have no idea how to change this mindset TB, it's societal conditioning that goes back to caveman days. 

For me, I used to feel the same way, in fact I think it may, in part, be why my last long term ex turned to drugs and alcohol.

I had him on such a pedestal he couldn't possibly live up to, and as such felt he needed to squelch weakness and vulnerability which resulted in him spiraling down and turning to alcohol and drugs. 

Since then, I've been doing tons of introspecting, reading, attending seminars, trying to change my thought process, and I have.

And can seriously say that now I welcome a man's vulnerability and the expression of deep emotions, it actually endears him to me MORE.

Not all the time obviously, I need him to be strong and steadfast and have purpose most of the time.  

I will tell you why I embrace his vulnerability, it's because it reflects his TRUST in me, and that is huge.

For a man to have such a trust in me to feel he can be open, honest, brave in revealing sensitivity, and feelings of weakness, shame and vulnerability may be the most powerful feeling ever, at least for me.

It will in fact pull me closer to him.

And I have experienced it so I know. 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by poppyfields

[basil67]

When it comes to strength, I believe the man who has sufficient confidence in his own masculinity to look past the stereotypes of mental health, has the courage to recognise his own issues, gives trust in others who will support him and seek help is actually stronger than the man who's never had to deal with it in the first place.  

Seeking help in a world where men's health is so stigmatized is one hell of an act of courage.  

I also find it concerning that men's reticence to seek help for mental health has, in this instance, been presented only in context with his female partner.  But what about other men, and more broadly, society and their views?  How does this affect a man's decision or methods to care for his mental health? 

• The teenage boy who struggles with anxiety or depression but is told by his father "boys don't cry"  or "man up"
• Lack of recognition that mental health can be a physical brain disorder with no relation to one's internal fortitude
• Modern teenage boys who actually do talk about feelings but are called "feminized' by a certain group of older men
• In some (many?) countries - inadequate numbers of psychiatrists, lack of government funding for beds.

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by basil67

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

I think that war veterans with PTSD would be a great example how mental strength is not related to mental health.   Strong, brave men prepared to risk their lives for what they believe in....who are then mentally damaged by war.   

Of course a veteran with PTSD couldn't be considered mentally weak prior to having undertaken his service. 

It's like the difference between situational and clinical depression.  One is an ability to cope after a traumatic event and the other is a chemical imbalance in the brain.

Still, with anything that's damaged, it could be considered weak, or at least weakened by certain definitions.

In engineering terms, you could create componentry designed to withstand forces which well exceed the application it's intended for.

Unless said componentry is subjected to forces outside of its intended application, you could never describe it as being weak. 

However, if the componentry is damaged as a result of unintended abuse, it will never be quite as strong as it used to be, even if repaired.  It may still work, however, it's most probably structurally compromised.

On the flipside, if you take a piece of componentry which wasn't designed to withstand the rigours of its intended application, then it will routinely break down.

You cannot compare a person's depression which is situational as a result of trauma, to someone who's got clinical depression. 

I don't want to label anyone with clinical depression "weak", but having a chemical imbalance which results in clinical depression could hardly be deemed a beacon of mental strength.

[Trail Blazer]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

When it comes to strength, I believe the man who has sufficient confidence in his own masculinity to look past the stereotypes of mental health, has the courage to recognise his own issues, gives trust in others who will support him and seek help is actually stronger than the man who's never had to deal with it in the first place.  

Seeking help in a world where men's health is so stigmatized is one hell of an act of courage.  

I also find it concerning that men's reticence to seek help for mental health has, in this instance, been presented only in context with his female partner.  But what about other men, and more broadly, society and their views?  How does this affect a man's decision or methods to care for his mental health? 

• The teenage boy who struggles with anxiety or depression but is told by his father "boys don't cry"  or "man up"
• Lack of recognition that mental health can be a physical brain disorder with no relation to one's internal fortitude
• Modern teenage boys who actually do talk about feelings but are called "feminized' by a certain group of older men
• In some (many?) countries - inadequate numbers of psychiatrists, lack of government funding for beds.

Courage and strength can be two entirely different concepts.  It could be said that for the weak (in any context you wish to apply weakness - I'm not necessarily referring to mental weakness), it would be courageous to stand up to the strong. 

It doesn't change the situation; the weak are still weak and the strong are still strong.  It's just, it took courage for the weaker party to stand up for what they believe despite their lack of strength.

If I were to enrol in college, undertaking studies which for whatever reason, were not my strong suits, but were still my passion, it would take a lot of courage to do so despite the subject potentially being my weakness.

If you were to look at the other students who found the course material to be easy, it would have required far less courage for them to enrol as the likelihood of failure would be deemed a lot less, therefore far less risky.

Ergo; courage is usually shown in the face of adversity, not when something is easy.  Adversity is generally always as a result of being in a compromised position.  The courage to admit a mental health disorder is the same.

Edited April 18, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fixed Spelling Error

[basil67]

I think that calling a man who has a chemical imbalance "weak" is exactly the type of dialogue which shames a man into hiding issues rather than seek help.  

[FMW]

21 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I feel that as long as women are attracted to men who are mentally strong and show unwavering stoicism under the pressures of life, then there will always be this barrier for men to opening up and showing vulnerability.

I think your own comments show that it's not just women who are contributing to that barrier. 

Your girlfriend's comment shouldn't sit badly with you, it seems you don't see yourself ever having a problem being "weak".  Enjoy her appreciation, you have found a good match in that area.   

We don't all find the same things attractive, or have the same definitions for weakness and strength.   

[Dis]

I would actually relate more and on a deeper level to a guy who had mental health issues but he would need to be in treatment, recovered and high functioning... and to do that requires mental strength ... a lot of it too

My now ex never had any issues with mental health and had a pretty 'easy' life as he puts it so we never clicked on a deep level and that always bothered me. I want to find a deep connection like I had with a previous ex again. Something about deep convos and sharing indepth feelings/thoughts/traumas is so attractive and bonding.

I had a very tough period in my teens early 20's but I pushed through, got treatment and now I haven't had a symptom in over 10 years

I would need a guy to be to in a similar situation to find him attractive 

Edited April 18, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Spacing

[Lotsgoingon]

I don't think the stoic ideal of masculinity is all that strong anymore, at least not in the crowds I hang in. Go up to any woman married for 10 plus years and ask them if they really like it that their husband doesn't talk about feelings. They hate it. There is an astronomically high level of dissatisfaction that women have about "stoic" men who don't share their feelings. 

Among the professional crowd I hang with, the stoic male thing hasn't been in fashion for decades. All the professional women I know absolutely want men who can emotionally share what's going on, partly because they want emotional support from the man. They see the traditional stoic thing as a pose, and don't really take it seriously. 

I had two surgeries in the past three years, knee surgery and hip surgery. I met with a number of top surgeons before I chose the surgeons I wanted. OMG, most of the surgeons I met with introduced themselves with "Hi, I"m John So and so ..." These surgeons had amazing listening skills and people skills. Not an ounce or arrogance and I mean I met with some top folks--like people on lists as one of the top 50 surgeons in their area in the U.S.  (I'm really picky when it comes to doctors.) Yep, top surgeons these days are quite warm and approachable. Turns out, patients LOVE warm surgeons. The surgeon as God, as brilliant authority--that's gone and been gone for a while. What really convinces the patient to green light a surgeon (other than emergency) is ... they LIKE the surgeon. 

On depression, yes, that condition is not attractive if you're in active depression, but the problem isn't really that it isn't attractive to women. The problem is that depression is genuinely incapacitating. And here's the irony: the problem with depression is that you can't be emotionally open and sensitive. You're in too much pain and too absorbed in your own pain to listen to another person's stories, to offer gentle support for or encouragement to another person. You lose your sense of humor when you're depressed. Your thinking is wildly pessimistic and hopeless.  

And ironically the problem isn't that depression takes men away from the stoic masculinity thing. Actually some men can hide depression behind the stoic face. Some of those old-time guys who'd come home from work and mumble two words the rest of the night, some of them were depressed. 

BTW being emotionally expressive and open has nothing to do with depression or "masculinity." You can be an emotionally expressive man and still exude highly dynamic energy and optimism and confidence. Plenty of charismatic, ambitious and successful people share vulnerabilities and feelings. 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Acacia98]

21 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I wasn't really aware until all of the recent coverage, just how strong physically and mentally that man was.
He is an inspiration.
Contrast that with his grandson, Harry the Duke of Sussex, who is always whining and snivelling about something or other.
I, as a woman am drawn to the former, and repulsed by the latter.

Personally, I wouldn't be quite quick to draw that distinction between the two. Philip clearly played a prominent role in developing the family system that produced Harry. So there may be a direct line between his being "mentally strong" and his grandson's "whining and sniveling."

[Trail Blazer]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

I think that calling a man who has a chemical imbalance "weak" is exactly the type of dialogue which shames a man into hiding issues rather than seek help.  

I agree.  Which is why it's much more constructive to frame it as courageous to seek help rather than to highlight mental frailties as a weakness.

[Trail Blazer]

8 hours ago, Dis said:

I would actually relate more and on a deeper level to a guy who had mental health issues but he would need to be in treatment, recovered and high functioning... and to do that requires mental strength ... a lot of it too

My now ex never had any issues with mental health and had a pretty 'easy' life as he puts it so we never clicked on a deep level and that always bothered me. I want to find a deep connection like I had with a previous ex again. Something about deep convos and sharing indepth feelings/thoughts/traumas is so attractive and bonding.

I had a very tough period in my teens early 20's but I pushed through, got treatment and now I haven't had a symptom in over 10 years

I would need a guy to be to in a similar situation to find him attractive 

I'm not sure I follow your thought process.  From what I can ascertain, you don't believe a guy could relate or empathize with you unless his life struggles have resulted in him developing a mental health issue which required treatment?

[Trail Blazer]

9 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I don't think the stoic ideal of masculinity is all that strong anymore, at least not in the crowds I hang in. Go up to any woman married for 10 plus years and ask them if they really like it that their husband doesn't talk about feelings. They hate it. There is an astronomically high level of dissatisfaction that women have about "stoic" men who don't share their feelings. 

Among the professional crowd I hang with, the stoic male thing hasn't been in fashion for decades. All the professional women I know absolutely want men who can emotionally share what's going on, partly because they want emotional support from the man. They see the traditional stoic thing as a pose, and don't really take it seriously. 

I had two surgeries in the past three years, knee surgery and hip surgery. I met with a number of top surgeons before I chose the surgeons I wanted. OMG, most of the surgeons I met with introduced themselves with "Hi, I"m John So and so ..." These surgeons had amazing listening skills and people skills. Not an ounce or arrogance and I mean I met with some top folks--like people on lists as one of the top 50 surgeons in their area in the U.S.  (I'm really picky when it comes to doctors.) Yep, top surgeons these days are quite warm and approachable. Turns out, patients LOVE warm surgeons. The surgeon as God, as brilliant authority--that's gone and been gone for a while. What really convinces the patient to green light a surgeon (other than emergency) is ... they LIKE the surgeon. 

On depression, yes, that condition is not attractive if you're in active depression, but the problem isn't really that it isn't attractive to women. The problem is that depression is genuinely incapacitating. And here's the irony: the problem with depression is that you can't be emotionally open and sensitive. You're in too much pain and too absorbed in your own pain to listen to another person's stories, to offer gentle support for or encouragement to another person. You lose your sense of humor when you're depressed. Your thinking is wildly pessimistic and hopeless.  

And ironically the problem isn't that depression takes men away from the stoic masculinity thing. Actually some men can hide depression behind the stoic face. Some of those old-time guys who'd come home from work and mumble two words the rest of the night, some of them were depressed. 

BTW being emotionally expressive and open has nothing to do with depression or "masculinity." You can be an emotionally expressive man and still exude highly dynamic energy and optimism and confidence. Plenty of charismatic, ambitious and successful people share vulnerabilities and feelings. 

 

Great post. 

So, with all that being said, you would have to agree that men who display characteristics of mental strength, with an ability to not just survive, but thrive despite the challenges which life throws at them, would be very attractive?

Of course, I understand that stoicism isn't attractive if the guy completely shuts down.  People, but especially women, are attracted to others who are warm and engaging. 

I feel that the use of the term stoicism in this thread has been now somewhat hijacked from my original intent.  I never intended to compare a stoic depressed guy who bottles up his emotions to the seemingly more favourable consensus that he's better off not bottling it up and instead seeking help.

No, what I intended to uncover is, if mental strength (defined by my girlfriend as my ability to handle challenges in life with aplomb and not be downtrodden) is attractive, then is not being able to cope as well ipso facto unattractive?

Of course, I should probably continue this discussion with her to further guage where she sits on the matter.  However, I suspect that her response would be that if I were to find myself struggling with a mental health issue, she'd support me but ultimately be put off by the notion that she'd have to consider whether her attraction levels would drop.

[Trail Blazer]

10 hours ago, FMW said:

I think your own comments show that it's not just women who are contributing to that barrier. 

I'm not so sure about that.  I have a couple of buddies with mental health issues and I've offered a lot of support to them, including encouraging them to seek professional help.

10 hours ago, FMW said:

Your girlfriend's comment shouldn't sit badly with you, it seems you don't see yourself ever having a problem being "weak".  Enjoy her appreciation, you have found a good match in that area.   

We don't all find the same things attractive, or have the same definitions for weakness and strength.   

Her comment doesn't sit badly with me at all.  I was flattered, but it did get me thinking, which probably resulted in me creating this thread.

[Lotsgoingon]

34 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I'm not sure I follow your thought process.  From what I can ascertain, you don't believe a guy could relate or empathize with you unless his life struggles have resulted in him developing a mental health issue which required treatment?

I'm not the person who made this point but I agree with it. Of course, this applies only some of the time.

Yes people who struggle with some depression and anxiety and get treatment for it, whether therapy or meds, or both, develop a resilience or '"strength" in your words, that others don't have. They have taken the worst punch and then found a way back. They also notice their weaknesses and and own their weaknesses thus work on them or avoid situations that they know won't be good for them. 

Instead of thinking of therapy as a fix for a defective mind, you can think of it as a form of psychological fitness training. To get aerobically fit you have to work out in an ongoing way. Same with weights and strength training. People who've had some mental health issues understand that life is an ongoing challenge, that they need to engage in everyday by taking care of their minds and bodies and souls. 

At some point, life knocks EVERYONE on their behind. People who've gone through successful mental health treatment don't linger on their behinds. They aren't stunned into paralysis or denial. They get themselves help and draw upon their history of recovery and resilience and can get off the ground pretty dang fast. And at their best, they anticipate the knock and thus limit its impact. And they get smart as hell about people problems. 

BTW: lots of CEO's go to mental health treatment, often in secret. A recent survey found 22 percent went to therapy. But 32 percent or so saw executive coaches. A friend of mine does executive coaching. There is all kinds of feelings work in my friend's executive coaching.

https://www.inc.com/wanda-thibodeaux/the-1-thing-ceos-now-are-prioritizing-in-quest-for-personal-balance.html

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Lotsgoingon

[Trail Blazer]

13 hours ago, basil67 said:

I have depression and I believe it's my personal responsibility to keep myself in the best mental state possible for the sake of the relationship.   I would expect the same of a partner.  However, when we're talking about someone (of either gender) who doesn't seek help for their mental illness, or worse, medication/therapy isn't helping, it will cause great problems in a relationship.   There's no getting around that.

For the record, I left my ex-h due to certain behaviours which, with hindsight, I now believe were symptoms of chronic depression.  But this was back in the 80's before depression was recognised.   Working on the theory that my belief is correct, I do wonder if our marriage may have had a different outcome had there been modern dialogue around the condition and we'd realised that he needed professional help.    If the same happened to my now husband, I'd be encouraging him to get help.

This is a very interesting post. 

I totally agree with you that it's an individual person's responsibility to ensure their mental health is sound in order to maintain a happy and functional relationship.

As for your second paragraph, it does sound like you ex-husband was bottling up emotions and, as a result of having no outlet to purge his emotions, he was profoundly affected, which was ultimately fatal for the marriage.

As I have stated above, my motivation for creating this thread wasn't to ascertain whether a man going through a mental health crisis is better bottling it up rather than trying to resolve it. 

My motivation was to understand if the admission of mental health struggles would be seen by women as a sign that he wasn't as mentally strong and capable as others, and as such, for the women attracted to a guy who's mentally tough, would her attraction diminish at all.

 

[Trail Blazer]

I want to make an off-topic post;

As the thread creator, I wish to request that the moderator/s who keep coming in and removing posts, please stop.

I want this topic to be free from censorship, unless someone posts a particularly nasty or inflammatory post, or a personal attack towards another poster.

I've notice at least half a dozen posts disappear, including one of my own which was in response to a post which was removed.

The respondents do not have to directly respond to me in order for the dialog to be considered relevant or important.

Unless there is a clear departure from the thread topic, it should remain a topic of discussion whereby posters can freely converse.

Thank you.

[elaine567]

19 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

I totally agree with you that it's an individual person's responsibility to ensure their mental health is sound in order to maintain a happy and functional relationship.

Ok but it is not so black and white.
Mental illness often strips a person of their control. Yes logically and rationally a person would seek help, but in the midst of a mental health crisis a person may neither be logical or rational

[Trail Blazer]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Ok but it is not so black and white.
Mental illness often strips a person of their control. Yes logically and rationally a person would seek help, but in the midst of a mental health crisis a person may neither be logical or rational

For sure.  Somebody going through a breakdown is different to someone feeling mild pangs of depression.  I would hope that for most people, they don't just wake up one day and have a breakdown, but rather, they understood that they were struggling and took measures to ensure that their mental health issues wouldn't escalate to a full-blown crisis.

Ultimately we're all responsible for our own behaviors and actions.  Some people are luckier than others with regards to having support networks around to help get through some of life's great struggles.  However, support networks can only go so far, it still is up to the individual to manage.

If you take one look at the law - mental health is factored into a person's defense in court, but ultimately mental health can very rarely be used to completely absolve someone of a crime committed.  And, if it can, we'd only be talking about a very small number of cases.  Outliers and nothing more.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

For sure.  Somebody going through a breakdown is different to someone feeling mild pangs of depression.  I would hope that for most people, they don't just wake up one day and have a breakdown, but rather, they understood that they were struggling and took measures to ensure that their mental health issues wouldn't escalate to a full-blown crisis.

With some there is no warning.
There is a big difference between a "bit of" depression or anxiety after some traumatic event or a bereavement or some other stressful event and actual mental illness that may include lack of insight and needs psychiatric help - crisis intervention or continuing care.

[Lotsgoingon]

You know I think this all comes down to whether the person with the struggles is getting help and actively engaging with their issue or not.

When a person is actively working on an issue, people connect with that. I know I'm switching gender here, but I work with young people, college age and one young woman I work with (she's 24) told me the first time we met that she had social anxiety. I couldn't believe it because she had just initiated a meeting with me, which young people have a hard time doing when they're socially anxious.

But then I learned she had a strategy: she doesn't heed her social anxiety. Sorta like with back pain, where the worst thing you can do is NOT to move, well with social anxiety, the worst thing to do is to stop interacting with others or avoid going to that party that scares you. So her strategy is to never avoid a social event because she was scared. Blew me away, actually made me see her as seriously confident and secure. Even though I'm in the mentor position, I really felt her strength. 

Well later, she had some serious health issues and again, OMG, she's totally on top of them. Doesn't get demoralized or only briefly so. Stays in touch with a therapist she loves. Advocates for herself aggressively with doctors. She reaches out to friends, goes out and has fun. She knows exactly how much fun she needs in her life to take care of her mood. Sure, I encourage her as a mentor, but honestly (ruthless no-sympathy honesty) I am impressed by her life skills. When she dates people or thinks about dating, these days she'll own all her issues up front and make sure the person knows what her energy is like. And she's a catch. Guys approach her all the time. 

So if you ask me about her mental strength, I would say she has a lot of strength. Yes, she has vulnerabilities, but she's aware of them and she actively structures her life to overcome her vulnerabilities or to minimize her vulnerabilities. The result is she's popular because all her other gifts--like her humor and smarts and storytelling and her beauty--shine. 

You got me thinking hard in a good way @Trail Blazer. I think then the issue is do your struggles overshadow your gifts? The more active you are at working hard to manage your condition, the more people are impressed. I think that applies to men and women. Just complaining about your struggles, no that doesn't work. And complaining without getting help for your condition--that gets tired to a partner real fast. 

[Dis]

10 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

I'm not sure I follow your thought process.  From what I can ascertain, you don't believe a guy could relate or empathize with you unless his life struggles have resulted in him developing a mental health issue which required treatment?

Not per se

 

But we would have a deeper connection and common ground if he had mental health issues and was recovered. I met a guy over a year ago who was a successful banker and was alluded to being on medications for mental health issues. We both alluded to it. It kind of put us at ease with each other even just knowing the bare minimum. 

 

But I would still be able to bond and be attracted to a guy who didn't have those experiences. He would just need some depth for me to find him attractive.