Just found out he's married. Update: I relapsed

[EleanorRigby2000]

1 hour ago, CUP OF TEA said:

But nobody else knows either right? Does he take you to dinner, hold hands with you in public, put you on his Facebook? Do his friends know about you? And the fact that you worked together was another lapse of judgement that could have gotten you both fired. All the best,, hope you get some self-respect and find a SINGLE man! 

I don't think you have read everything I've written.  But that's okay.  Are these questions related to the relapse or prior?  Even though they have been addressed in one post or another (maybe this week, maybe in the past), I will repeat myself.  He doesn't have social media.  As for the past - I met his kids.  We would go out to eat together.  He spent time at my place.  We were well aware of the work situation and what could happen, hence the reason for secrecy at work.  As for recently - his kids are grown, I've not seen them in several years.  We have discussed meeting for lunch/dinner again, but one of us always cancels.  I no longer care to ever see him again (as indicated in posts), so there will not be any meals or spending time with friends or family.  

Edited October 23, 2021 by EleanorRigby2000

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I used relapse because I see him as an addiction

Unfortunately that's a cop out. So is saying you can't find decent single men on dating apps or in real life.

One day, you will wake up and wonder what you were thinking seeing this creep..

You're not there yet but therapy could help you get some insight.

[EleanorRigby2000]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately that's a cop out. So is saying you can't find decent single men on dating apps or in real life.

One day, you will wake up and wonder what you were thinking seeing this creep..

You're not there yet but therapy could help you get some insight.

I don't see it as a cop out.  My former counselor has told me it's an addiction.  I no longer see the counselor because he raised his rates to $200/hr and doesn't accept insurance.  Also, the dating thing isn't a cop-out either.  Maybe dating apps work well for some.  As a middle-aged woman, I am not finding any luck.  I'm finding disrespectful, immature men.  It is easy for me to turn away disrespectful men, except for this MM.  I know it's because of the history the MM and I have.  
 

I do know you're right that I will wake up one day and wonder what I was/am thinking.  I can tell you right now, my head gets it - my heart doesn't.  Women are emotional beings who allow our hearts to guide us.  I do wish I wasn't such an emotional being.  

[BaileyB]

I tend to agree, the dating pool is pretty slim for the middle age women. It’s easy to become disillusioned when you put yourself out there and you are disappointed time and time again. It does a number on your self esteem and your satisfaction with life. Myself, I swore off dating for many years and settled into a single life... Others, find themselves forming relationships with married men.

Compared to the single men who have not coupled up for some fairly obvious reasons, the married man looks like a dream… What most women learn over time is, he is little more than a mirage…

Edited October 23, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I know it's because of the history the MM and I have.  

Eleanor, I went back to read your first post again to remind myself of your story. You have known this man for many years, and he has been single for part of that time. In fact, he was single and dating another woman when you first connected - not married. He chose to marry AFTER you had formed your friendship/relationship. 

Part of what keeps you stuck seems to be this belief that you share this history together, but your feelings have never really been returned. Your feelings are unrequited. You say in your first post that you have loved him, and he cares for you. He has never told you that he loves you. In fact, he has chosen another woman. 

When my parents met, they were both dating other people. As the story goes, the day after they met they both broke up with their other partners and the rest is history… If this man wanted to be with you, he would have chosen to be with you. 

Honestly, I would rather find happiness as a single person than pine after a married man who has chosen to be with another woman. The lack of other dating options should not be the reason why you chose to cling to an unavailable man.

It’s time to put some distance between yourselves and let this go… 

Edited October 23, 2021 by BaileyB

[spiderowl]

"I used to be somewhat of a prude.  I ended up telling him that I never sexted or shared photos until him.  His responses were "dang, now I feel bad for asking you to do those things.  Men are visual creatures.  But damn I took you down a dark path."  I didn't respond.  I know if I responded, I would share too much and it would be out of hurt and anger."

You know, OP, I think that phrase that is widely used by men is the biggest excuse ever for appalling behaviour.  Women are visual too - we do assess men on their looks in a shallow way too (though men might not want to think we do).  For a long-term relationship, a guy would need to be more than physically attractive to us, but that does not mean that we are not visual creatures.  Women go out and choose pretty dresses, choose house furnishings, decor, design things, make things beautiful - why on earth do men think they are more 'visual' than we are?  It doesn't make sense to me.  Women are attracted to good looks too.

I think the above is just an excuse to cross boundaries and is used as an excuse when boundaries are crossed.  'Well, I did that because 'men are visual creatures' not because I'm a creep!'

Edited October 23, 2021 by spiderowl

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, spiderowl said:

You know, OP, I think that phrase that is widely used by men is the biggest excuse ever for appalling behaviour. 

I think the above is just an excuse to cross boundaries and is used as an excuse when boundaries are crossed.  'Well, I did that because 'men are visual creatures' not because I'm a creep!'

I absolutely agree. 

I would just add, people use certain things to excuse all kind of poor decisions and behavior. In this case, the fact that they have known each other for a long time and share a certain “history” is being used as an excuse to stay in communication with a man who is otherwise committed to another woman. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by BaileyB

[EleanorRigby2000]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:
I would just add, people use certain things to excuse all kind of poor decisions and behavior. In this case, the fact that they have known each other for a long time and share a certain “history” is being used as an excuse to stay in communication with a man who is otherwise committed to another woman. 

I had told him to never contact me again unless he was available.  So when we reconnected, I didn't ask if he was single.  All of his communication was if he were single.  He would say things like "I spent the weekend with daughter."  "I am taking son to dinner tonight."  "I am going out of town this weekend."  It was never about "we" or "us" such as "we went to see daughter."   It wasn't until a few months into it this time when he used "spouse" when mentioning something.  I know I should have blocked him then.  Instead I asked if he was married.  He said he was and starting giving me stories about how sometimes people are forced to do stuff, spouse is demanding, spouse gets volatile if he doesn't do exactly what she wants."   I should have told him to work it out with "spouse" or leave her, but stop contacting me.  I didn't do that.  Instead, my heart was telling me he really cares about me.  

[BaileyB]

Eleanor, did you not ask the question for fear that the answer would not be what you wanted to hear? It sounds like both of you knew what needed to be kept unspoken… Had I been in that position, it would have been the first thing that I clarified - “you are contacting me again, can I take this to mean that you have left your wife and you are now single?” After all, this wasn’t the first time that he reached out to you wanting to communicate for you to learn after the fact that he was married. Past history would indicate that he is not always truthful. Past history would indicate that some clarification should be in order - one can not assume that this man is single if he is contacting you…

33 minutes ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I should have told him to work it out with "spouse" or leave her, but stop contacting me.  I didn't do that.  Instead, my heart was telling me he really cares about me.  

What was your head telling you? I ask only because, those who tend to think with their hearts and not their heads tend to find themselves in really difficult situations… 

Edited October 24, 2021 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

^^ I mean, he lied by omission twice. And, the second time you didn’t think to ask? I just wonder if you are really being honest with yourself… 

[EleanorRigby2000]

12 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Eleanor, did you not ask the question for fear that the answer would not be what you wanted to hear? It sounds like both of you knew what needed to be kept unspoken… Had I been in that position, it would have been the first thing that I clarified - “you are contacting me again, can I take this to mean that you have left your wife and you are now single?” After all, this wasn’t the first time that he reached out to you wanting to communicate for you to learn after the fact that he was married. Past history would indicate that he is not always truthful. Past history would indicate that some clarification should be in order - one can not assume that this man is single if he is contacting you…

What was your head telling you? I ask only because, those who tend to think with their hearts and not their heads tend to find themselves in really difficult situations… 

He was divorced when I asked him to stop communicating with me (2018).  

My head tells me the facts.  He is a jerk, he uses women, he doesn't respect women, he's a master manipulator.  My heart tells me he loves me and truly cares about me.  My heart is a liar.  

[BaileyB]

On 10/18/2021 at 2:33 PM, EleanorRigby2000 said:

This is his second wife.  He cheated on first wife with this one and it broke up his family.  It took him 9 years to divorce his first wife.

My apology, I didn’t realize that this was his second marriage. So, he was single more than once during the time you have known him, and you never got together. And, he has cheated not only with you, but he cheated on his first wife with his second wife.

Sincerely, what are you hoping will happen here? What would be your ideal end result? Are you hoping to someday be together - to be wife number three? Or are you content to be the go two when he gets bored or his primary relationship is not good? What do you want from this relationship - what keeps you holding on beside the affirmation and attention he provides?

[EleanorRigby2000]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

My apology, I didn’t realize that this was his second marriage. So, he was single more than once during the time you have known him, and you never got together. And, he has cheated not only with you, but he cheated on his first wife with his second wife.

Sincerely, what are you hoping will happen here? What would be your ideal end result? Are you hoping to someday be together - to be wife number three? Or are you content to be the go two when he gets bored or his primary relationship is not good? What do you want from this relationship - what keeps you holding on beside the affirmation and attention he provides?

It's a complicated story regarding he and I being together when he was single and then when I didn't know he remarried.  
 

Honestly - I had hoped that he wouldn't have married wife #2 because of how he would tell me she treated him, things she would say and do, etc.  Then when I cut him off completely, I felt like I pushed him into her arms (I now realize I didn't, that was his choice).  When we reconnected, I believed everything he would tell me.  I believed he loved and cared about me the way I do for him.  He would say and do things that made me believe we were supposed to be together.  Once I found out he was married, I stopped talking to him.  He reached out to me over a month after I stopped talking to him giving me sad stories and telling me how much he missed me.  Today, I went back through all of those emails and messages from him.  I see now how his comments were manipulative.  He knew exactly what to say and how to say it to get me back.  
 

** I will add, after I've been posting on here and reading responses, and discussing this with a good friend, I'm seeing things differently now.  I cried myself to sleep last night because I was mad at him, mad at myself, hurt by him, and had been lied to.  I have cried today too, but it was more of a "mourning what I thought we had but know we don't" cry.  I don't know who I'm more mad at, him or me.  I'm so mad at myself for falling for his BS and falling in love with him.  Also, thinking about him, knowing how much he has disrespected his wife with words and actions makes me realize I'm lucky I'm not the one with him.  If I were married and my husband talked about me like he talks about her, I would be really hurt.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by EleanorRigby2000

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I had told him to never contact me again unless he was available.  

Unfortunately that's a bit vague for a cheater like this. "Available" to someone this creepy means his wife isn't around so he has time to text or hookup.

When and if you're ready , you'll delete and block him from all your social media and messaging apps.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Wiseman2

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I'm so mad at myself for falling for his BS and falling in love with him.  

Are you really in love with him as a person, though? 

Or are you in love with the high you feel when you think he wants you? Those are different, but it's easy to confuse them when we're lonely or feeling unseen in general. I have a feeling that if he weren't feeding you all kinds of sweet nothings, you wouldn't be so interested in this joker. 

[Bittersweetie]

Eleanor, I know what it's like to be angry at oneself for the choices made. It's so easy to deflect responsibility but the only person we have control over is ourselves and that's how we need to approach challenges. You have two paths now. You can use your experiences to initiate change and make better choices. Or you can wallow and spin around and not change anything. Which path would you like to take?

[EleanorRigby2000]

2 hours ago, Bittersweetie said:

Eleanor, I know what it's like to be angry at oneself for the choices made. It's so easy to deflect responsibility but the only person we have control over is ourselves and that's how we need to approach challenges. You have two paths now. You can use your experiences to initiate change and make better choices. Or you can wallow and spin around and not change anything. Which path would you like to take?

My answer is in the 3rd page of this thread.  😃

[EleanorRigby2000]

7 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Are you really in love with him as a person, though? 

Or are you in love with the high you feel when you think he wants you? Those are different, but it's easy to confuse them when we're lonely or feeling unseen in general. I have a feeling that if he weren't feeding you all kinds of sweet nothings, you wouldn't be so interested in this joker. 

I have been in love with him as a person.  In the past, his actions matched his words.  He would take care of me when sick, he was there for me when I had surgery, he was even checking on me often when I had a death in the family and had to drive 10 hours solo.  We have always been able to laugh together and share deep thoughts and emotions.  

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

I have been in love with him as a person.  

Even considering how he treats his wife? 

This was my point, actually. You are focusing only on the details that are relevant to you, but ignoring the bigger picture. He doesn't exist in a an affair-vacuum. How he conducts himself in the world and treats others - especially women - is equally relevant. 

And frankly, he is abysmally lacking in many ways. Are you in love with all of that too? I doubt it. if you took away the flattering things he says to you, would you be able to step back and say, "What a stand-up guy this is. He is kind to others, mature, considerate in how he treats loved ones, and a man of solid character and integrity"?

I doubt you could do that. So what exactly are you in love with, apart from the attention he gives you? 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

In the past, his actions matched his words.  He would take care of me when sick, he was there for me when I had surgery, he was even checking on me often when I had a death in the family and had to drive 10 hours solo.  We have always been able to laugh together and share deep thoughts and emotions.  

That's ok. Perhaps at one time it fit your needs. However sadly all this is in the past tense.

[EleanorRigby2000]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's ok. Perhaps at one time it fit your needs. However sadly all this is in the past tense.

Very good point.  As I was typing that response and seeing it in print (about the past), I had the same thoughts. Who he was then was nice, caring guy.  
 

I have thought about this and @ExpatInItalyreply even before you wrote them.  I have been looking inside of me a lot the last 72 hours.  I know what I have to do.  I can't make excuses for his behavior any more.  I was cheated on years ago, and I remember how badly it hurt.  If his wife ever feels that same pain, I don't want to be a part of it.  
 

One of the things I've really focused on is, if I were married, how would I feel if my husband referred to me as "spouse," "someone else," "the other person who lives here," etc.  It's demeaning, demoralizing, and disrespectful.  Not to mention how he tells me she demands he do housework, she demands he not text anyone she doesn't know, she has to know everyone he texts if she sees him texting, she has zero motherly qualities and leaves him to fend for himself when he's hurt or sick, she makes him sleep in a separate room if he works late (he works from home), and so on.  He has never complimented her in any way when discussing her to me.  When I reminded him that he's said nasty things about her, he didn't defend her or tell me he shouldn't have said that.  That was one of the things I reminded him of that when I told him I was really shocked that he married her.  
 

Last week, he told me he was more mature than when we first met.  There was something we were talking about that led to that topic.  I wanted to tell him he is not more mature because he is still disrespecting his wife, but I didn't.  He's also disrespecting his kids because he let her come in between them.  He no longer calls the one who lives here on a whim to see if he can meet up.  He said he was told things must be planned in advance (even with his kids) according to his spouse's rules.  Yet, he tells me he doesn't know why his kids don't reach out to him first.  

Now, my struggle is that I want to email him and tell him that he's a lying, cheating, manipulator.  I want to tell him exactly how I feel.  I will take ownership in what I'm responsible for, but I want him to hear that he's not the wonderful person so many people believe he is.  He has so many bad qualities.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[BaileyB]

43 minutes ago, EleanorRigby2000 said:

He's also disrespecting his kids because he let her come in between them.  He no longer calls the one who lives here on a whim to see if he can meet up.  He said he was told things must be planned in advance (even with his kids) according to his spouse's rules.  Yet, he tells me he doesn't know why his kids don't reach out to him first.  

He doesn’t know why his kids don’t reach out to him first - as the child of a man who chose a woman above and before his children at one time, I will tell you… it really hurts. Like, to your very core, it hurts. They, like you, are probably asking why? Why does he stay as allow her to dictate what he is or is not able to do? Why has he allowed a woman to stand between a father and his adult child? 

What a tough spot, to be stuck in these marriages and unable to visit with his children without her permission. If this is the case, you do realize that he choses this for himself, do you not? Nobody forces him to stay in this marriage. Nobody can restrict him from communicating/spending time with his adult children without his permission. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

19 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

What a tough spot, to be stuck in these marriages and unable to visit with his children without her permission.

I don't understand this Eleanor, if he can get away to have an affair why can't he get away to see his children?

[BaileyB]

14 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand this Eleanor, if he can get away to have an affair why can't he get away to see his children?

Good point. I’m sure she has rules related to his ability to communicate/sext with another woman. He is somehow not able to find the fortitude to call or meet his children without her prior approval, but he has no problem communicating/sexting with you (even if it is only during the week, as you have previously stated she checks his phone on the weekend). I wonder why she does that? I wonder why he allows that? 

Edited October 24, 2021 by BaileyB

[EleanorRigby2000]

31 minutes ago, stillafool said:

I don't understand this Eleanor, if he can get away to have an affair why can't he get away to see his children?

I have not thought about this.  This is a very valid question.  Holy smokes.  
 

It must have been another lie that he couldn't get away to see them.  There was a time she traveled for work (pre-COVID), and he would see his son one night a week because his son was still a minor.  But now, his son is an adult living on his own, and the MM should be able to see him whenever he wants.