Divorce in UK - How does it work & buying him out?

[LostMum]

Hi all,

Could anyone give me any pointers on things to ask/consider when going through a divorce?

One of the things that concern me is the fact that I can’t accurately ‘budget’ a solicitor’s time fees, as it depends on how long it takes to resolve and come to an agreement. For those of you who have divorced, how many hours were spent on your case? I believe most solicitors allow you to set up a payment plan.. another expense to add to all the bills I would be looking after myself! How do single parents do it?!

Also - are there any women out there who are the breadwinner, are responsible for all mortgage payments, etc. And then get a divorce? Did you buy your partner out - even if they haven’t contributed to mortgage payments, but because their name is on the deed, they’re entitled? My solicitor said he would initially be offered 50%, but can argue down to 10-20%. To me, this is too much as he hasn’t contributed. I’m happy to return his original deposit.

If applicable, grounds for divorce is unreasonable behaviour (should be adultery, but we’ve lived together for 6m+ since i’ve known about it). 

[d0nnivain]

You are asking for legal advice on an international relationship board.  While I never recommend you get legal advice anywhere other than from a lawyer, at minimum you should find a UK board for this.  

As for budget, a really good divorce attorney once told me it's a 1/3 split. You get 1/3 of your assets.  He gets 1/3 & the 2 lawyers split the other 1/3.  If you fight tooth & nail it becomes a 50-50 split.  You & your EX split 1/2 of your assets while the lawyers split  up the remaining half

Every situation is unique.  Do remember 2 things.  1).  the time value of money.  The harder you fight, the more money you will spend on lawyers.  It may be cheaper to just give the EX certain things.  2).  Your solicitor is not your therapist.  Do not treat your solicitor as such.  Try to be efficient when you talk to your solicitor.  You will be billed for every 6 minutes of his / her time.  Try to interact with the staff more; it's cheaper. 

Think through your bottom lines -- what must you have & what are you willing to give up to get that? 

Edited April 23, 2021 by d0nnivain

[LostMum]

12 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You are asking for legal advice on an international relationship board.  While I never recommend you get legal advice anywhere other than from a lawyer, at minimum you should find a UK board for this.  

As for budget, a really good divorce attorney once told me it's a 1/3 split. You get 1/3 of your assets.  He gets 1/3 & the 2 lawyers split the other 1/3.  If you fight tooth & nail it becomes a 50-50 split.  You & your EX split 1/2 of your assets while the lawyers split  up the remaining half

Every situation is unique.  Do remember 2 things.  1).  the time value of money.  The harder you fight, the more money you will spend on lawyers.  It may be cheaper to just give the EX certain things.  2).  Your solicitor is not your therapist.  Do not treat your solicitor as such.  Try to be efficient when you talk to your solicitor.  You will be billed for every 6 minutes of his / her time.  Try to interact with the staff more; it's cheaper. 

Think through your bottom lines -- what must you have & what are you willing to give up to get that? 

Thanks for the advice! And yes..a UK forum would be more appropriate. Would be good to just collect some information for now, and some good points you’ve made. Thank you.

[vla1120]

I live in the U.S. I agree with @d0nnivain that you must seek the advice of a soliciter in the UK. I understand being the breadwinner and not wanting to get screwed over in the divorce. I was the main breadwinner and got royally (no pun intended) screwed over in my divorce (pretty much by my own doing.) By law, because my state is an equitable distribution state, I have to give him 50% of my state pension. I was just anxious to get out of the marriage, so I gave him everything and walked out the door with my clothes and personal belongings. Luckily, we did not own any property.

Hopefully, like in the U.S., you can get one free consultation with your solicitor and maybe get some of those questions answered. Best of luck.

Edited April 23, 2021 by vla1120

[LostMum]

15 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

I live in the U.S. I agree with @d0nnivain that you must seek the advice of a soliciter in the UK. I understand being the breadwinner and not wanting to get screwed over in the divorce. I was the main breadwinner and got royally (no pun intended) screwed over in my divorce (pretty much by my own doing.) By law, because my state is an equitable distribution state, I have to give him 50% of my state pension. I was just anxious to get out of the marriage, so I gave him everything and walked out the door with my clothes and personal belongings. Luckily, we did not own any property.

Hopefully, like in the U.S., you can get one free consultation with your solicitor and maybe get some of those questions answered. Best of luck.

Oh wow, that’s awful! I’m so sorry. That’s just crazy.

[d0nnivain]

17 minutes ago, LostMum said:

 That’s just crazy.

It's not that crazy.  It's 50% of the value of the pension on the day of the divorce not a life time.  To fight that may have cost more both emotionally & financially, plus dragging it out gives time for the pension to grow & have a higher value.  

My friend the divorce lawyer told me a horrible story about a couple that was fighting over a canoe.  They spent more than 10x the value of the canoe litigating the issue. Meaning had one of them just given the other that canoe that person could have brought 10 different canoes.  

[vla1120]

6 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

It's not that crazy.  It's 50% of the value of the pension on the day of the divorce not a life time.  To fight that may have cost more both emotionally & financially, plus dragging it out gives time for the pension to grow & have a higher value.  

My friend the divorce lawyer told me a horrible story about a couple that was fighting over a canoe.  They spent more than 10x the value of the canoe litigating the issue. Meaning had one of them just given the other that canoe that person could have brought 10 different canoes.  

Exactly! I watched my sister-in-law battle her deceased husband's son (her stepson) in court for over 10 years over his father's will. His son told her "I will fight you in court until every penny my father left you is exhausted. I don't care if I end up without a dime, as long as you end up with nothing, also." - and that's exactly what happened. They both spent their inheritance fighting each other in court. That is why I walked away rather than fight. Plus, I've seen many men who complained when they had to give their wives half of everything they earned over the years. What's good for the goose is good for the gander (though it didn't feel that good...)

[Blind-Sided]

Everything above is right.   You may want things... but the fight could cost more than the value of "The Thing".

I don't know how it is in the UK... but in most of the states in the USA... it's a 50/50 kind of thing.   If your H was lazy, and didn't work... but you were married for 20 years... all things bought/earned in those 20 years is a 50/50 split because it's marital property.  

 

[Wiseman2]

Only a good attorney can advise you about the specifics in your situation and jurisdiction.

That's the best place to start. You could research online for general information about divorce, child support etc laws in your area. 

But it's general info. Just like you can Google "toothache", but you really need to see a dentist about your specific problem 

It seems like you want to stay married for marital benefits unless you can find a better deal.

[BaileyB]

I’m not in the UK, but my partner divorced his first wife. He was the breadwinner and yes, he had to buy his wife out of the home, she got 1/2 of their retirement savings, and he paid her spousal and child support for years. The divorce was financially devastating to him, but I don’t think he regrets it in any way. He renegotiated the mortgage and added some of the cost for the home and spousal support to the mortgage. I know he also had some significant debt from legal fees. Still, I don’t think he would have done it differently... I think if you asked him now, he would say it was money well spent. But, he was very bitter about it at the time. 

Hindsight is 20/20, but the problem here and the problem he had was that he allowed it to continue for two long. It’s a very unbalanced partnership when one person is paying the mortgage for years. When my partner spoke with a lawyer, he asked what would happen if he chose to stay (for his child). The lawyers advice was - the longer he stayed, the more he would pay. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by BaileyB

[mark clemson]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:42 AM, d0nnivain said:

My friend the divorce lawyer told me a horrible story about a couple that was fighting over a canoe.  They spent more than 10x the value of the canoe litigating the issue. Meaning had one of them just given the other that canoe that person could have brought 10 different canoes.  

And let that be a lesson to you.

My personal belief is that lawyers, including divorce lawyers, will propose/do things that end up antagonizing the people involved. This makes them more willing to spend money on things like court motions, letters to the other lawyer, etc to "get back at" the other. All of which the lawyers naturally get paid for.

One example, IMO, is having the other person served notice of divorce at work. This embarrasses a person in front of one of their most important peer groups and, IMO, sets a tone of "nastiness" right off the bat.

So just keep an eye out for this, and try to think of less triggering alternatives. Even a good lawyer likes to get paid more IMO.

[Harry Korsnes]

Hi! Sorry your going through this.

You dont have any friends who have been through the same thing you can ask?

Best of luck 

[basil67]

If you don't want to spend loads on a lawyer, I'd try mediation services first.    The only caveat I would make is that you have a good understanding of what decision the court is likely to make. No sense spending loads of time and effort seeking a result which will never eventuate.

Mediation is a way of sorting any differences between you and your ex-partner, with the help of a third person who won’t take sides. The third person is called a mediator. They can help you reach an agreement about issues with money, property or children.

You can try mediation before going to a solicitor. If you go to a solicitor first, they’ll probably talk to you about whether using mediation first could help. 

You don’t have to go to mediation, but if you end up having to go to court to sort out your differences, you normally need to prove you’ve been to a mediation information and assessment meeting (MIAM). This is an introductory meeting to explain what mediation is and how it might help you.

From website https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/ending-a-relationship/how-to-separate/mediation-to-help-you-separate/

[Taramere]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, LostMum said:

Hi all,

Could anyone give me any pointers on things to ask/consider when going through a divorce?

One of the things that concern me is the fact that I can’t accurately ‘budget’ a solicitor’s time fees, as it depends on how long it takes to resolve and come to an agreement. For those of you who have divorced, how many hours were spent on your case? I believe most solicitors allow you to set up a payment plan.. another expense to add to all the bills I would be looking after myself! How do single parents do it?!

Also - are there any women out there who are the breadwinner, are responsible for all mortgage payments, etc. And then get a divorce? Did you buy your partner out - even if they haven’t contributed to mortgage payments, but because their name is on the deed, they’re entitled? My solicitor said he would initially be offered 50%, but can argue down to 10-20%. To me, this is too much as he hasn’t contributed. I’m happy to return his original deposit.

If applicable, grounds for divorce is unreasonable behaviour (should be adultery, but we’ve lived together for 6m+ since i’ve known about it). 

Your solicitor should provide you with an estimate of certain inevitable costs (eg  court costs relating to lodging documents).  An experienced family lawyer shoudl be able to give you an estimate relating to a basic separation agreement...on the proviso that you will incur additional costs if the separation agreement is an unusually complex one or involves protracted negotiations.  If your solicitor is experienced in family law, then at your meeting they will have been able to rattle off answers to questions about documents that need to be lodged, cost of doing so....cost of basic separation agreement, likely timescales involved between raising an action and getting a decree if it's undefended and so on.  If somebody calling themselves a family lawyer is completely unwilling to give any sort of estimate then I'd advise caution about using that solicitor.  It's far from unknown for solicitors to dabble in areas they don't have much specialist expertise in...especially in smaller firms.  

Obviously lawyers don't want to give out estimates that the client might try to hold them to (even if the client calls them on a near daily basis and the case ends up being far more complex and/or adversarial than first predicted) but you should be able to get an idea of basic costs from your solicitor.  Also, I'd be surprised by any family lawyer who doesn't urge you to aim for separation rather than adultery as a ground.  People are often reluctant to go down the "separation as the ground" route because of the timescale involved (due to the requisite period of separation), but raising an action based on adultery isn't necessarily going to be quicker and it's pretty likely to be significantly more expensive.

 If you have children together then obviously the court has to be satisfied as to the arrangements for their welfare before it'll grant decree.  A separation agreement covering division of matrimonial assets and child residence/contact arrangements is the main thing most couples would be focusing on when they separate.  Once you've got that sorted, and have been separated for long enough, the divorce should be a pretty straightforward process.  As far as pension as a matrimonial asset goes in the UK, the relevant dates for valuing it are date of marriage and the date of separation (not the date of divorce).

From your opening post is seems that you already have a solicitor.  The fact that you're seeking divorce advice on a relationship board doesn't suggest to me that you have had very productive discussions with that solicitor so far.  Make sure you're consulting with somebody who's experienced in family law and isn't just a generalist dabbler.

[Taramere]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:48 PM, mark clemson said:

And let that be a lesson to you.

My personal belief is that lawyers, including divorce lawyers, will propose/do things that end up antagonizing the people involved. This makes them more willing to spend money on things like court motions, letters to the other lawyer, etc to "get back at" the other. All of which the lawyers naturally get paid for.

One example, IMO, is having the other person served notice of divorce at work. This embarrasses a person in front of one of their most important peer groups and, IMO, sets a tone of "nastiness" right off the bat.

So just keep an eye out for this, and try to think of less triggering alternatives. Even a good lawyer likes to get paid more IMO.

It sounds as though there isn't much regulation of lawyers, their conduct and the service of writs where you live.   What you describe wouldn't be a good lawyer in the UK.  They would be an incompetent one.   Whether the OP is in England or Scotland (two different legal systems) both jurisdictions have court rules governing, among other things, service of writs.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/family/rules_pd_menu

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/rules-and-practice/rules-of-court/sheriff-court---civil-procedure-rules/ordinary-cause-rules

Ordinarily service has to be effected either at the defender's address or at their solicitor's office (if their solicitor has agreed to accept service).  If for some reason neither of these options are possible then alternative arrangements for service might be made...but serving a divorce writ on somebody at their place of work in order to embarrass them could just result in a UK based solicitor embarrassing themselves - since it would not only be unprofessionally spiteful but would also likely result in the solicitor subsequently having to relay to their client the unwelcome news that the court has deemed service of the writ to be incompetent.  

I'd definitely encourage the OP to focus on UK based forums and better still, a forum specific to England or Scotland (whichever one she lives in)...otherwise she's likely to get a whole lot of advice that will bear little resemblance to what she's likely to encounter in reality.

[mark clemson]

4 hours ago, Taramere said:

It sounds as though there isn't much regulation of lawyers, their conduct and the service of writs where you live.   What you describe wouldn't be a good lawyer in the UK.  They would be an incompetent one.   Whether the OP is in England or Scotland (two different legal systems) both jurisdictions have court rules governing, among other things, service of writs.

You're correct. In the US the "stereotype" and a common practice is for the divorce notice to be served at work, often with the effects I've noted.

I would question whether there is no "deliberate antagonizing" of clients in the UK in other ways, sometimes subtle ones. You may well be right. In the US it appears common from what little I have seen and heard about, but we have (I guess?) a different system with different rules and "incentives" for the lawyers perhaps.

Edited May 1, 2021 by mark clemson

[Stupidkupid]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, LostMum said:

Hi all,

Could anyone give me any pointers on things to ask/consider when going through a divorce?

One of the things that concern me is the fact that I can’t accurately ‘budget’ a solicitor’s time fees, as it depends on how long it takes to resolve and come to an agreement. For those of you who have divorced, how many hours were spent on your case? I believe most solicitors allow you to set up a payment plan.. another expense to add to all the bills I would be looking after myself! How do single parents do it?!

Also - are there any women out there who are the breadwinner, are responsible for all mortgage payments, etc. And then get a divorce? Did you buy your partner out - even if they haven’t contributed to mortgage payments, but because their name is on the deed, they’re entitled? My solicitor said he would initially be offered 50%, but can argue down to 10-20%. To me, this is too much as he hasn’t contributed. I’m happy to return his original deposit.

If applicable, grounds for divorce is unreasonable behaviour (should be adultery, but we’ve lived together for 6m+ since i’ve known about it). 

Hi,

You should get an estimate of costs up front.

UK is variable. Scotland is different to England, for example, for process and law.

There are a variety of stages:

- First one of you will file as the petitioner (the person requesting the divorce) and the respondent ( the person being divorced). One person needs to be each, as there is still not fault divorce in England. Which you are only matters in regards to driving stuff along. You have a little more control (only a bit) over timelines, as the petitioner.

- You will need to file under a specific reason for divorce. You will probably file under unreasonable behaviour. For this you will need to cite reasons, these can be reasonably minor from an objective perspective but important to you subjectively. A solicitor will help you structure this in a way that means a judge is happy to sign it off.

- The papers are filed with the local court and then this is sent out, from the court, to the respondent. They then sign if they agree to the divorce and return the forms. If they do not sign this, then it is a contested divorce. This is rare but does happen. This then requires a court appearance to convince a judge why you should have a divorce (I know)

- Once this is signed by both parties, a judge will check it and read your decree nisi. This is to say that your marriage is about to be dissolved. There is then a legal pause, after which you must wait 6 weeks and 1 day before applying for the decree absolute. This dissolves your marriage altogether.

- At the point of decree nisi you can then start proceedings on ancillary/ financial relief. This is the part in which you decide how marital assets are divided. The starting point for this is 50/50 in England. On everything. 

- This process involves the filing of a Form E, this where you fill in your income, assets, out goings, pension and requirements. Both parties fill in their own. As part of this you will need to supply evidence, this is initially 12 months bank statements, 3 months pay slips and a P60 and proofs of debts, redemptions cost for mortgages etc

- This gets filed to court along with a timeline and a questionnaire for the First Hearing, otherwise called the FDA. At this hearing a judge looks at the paperwork and makes sure nothing is missing. That is all this hearing is for. 

- The next phase is Financial Dispute resolution (otherwise known as the FDR). In between FDA and FDR you should be trying to reach an agreement, outside of court, with the other party. Court isn't great and it's expensive however, most cases get resolved at FDR. The judge here just helps you talk things through and gives points on the law and an indication of what he things might be fair.

- If it doesn't not get resolved at FDR there is one last step, Final Hearing. This is the absolute last stage. You will need a barrister. It is proper court. It is expensive. And the decision is final 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Stupidkupid

[Stupidkupid]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, LostMum said:

Hi all,

Could anyone give me any pointers on things to ask/consider when going through a divorce?

One of the things that concern me is the fact that I can’t accurately ‘budget’ a solicitor’s time fees, as it depends on how long it takes to resolve and come to an agreement. For those of you who have divorced, how many hours were spent on your case? I believe most solicitors allow you to set up a payment plan.. another expense to add to all the bills I would be looking after myself! How do single parents do it?!

Also - are there any women out there who are the breadwinner, are responsible for all mortgage payments, etc. And then get a divorce? Did you buy your partner out - even if they haven’t contributed to mortgage payments, but because their name is on the deed, they’re entitled? My solicitor said he would initially be offered 50%, but can argue down to 10-20%. To me, this is too much as he hasn’t contributed. I’m happy to return his original deposit.

If applicable, grounds for divorce is unreasonable behaviour (should be adultery, but we’ve lived together for 6m+ since i’ve known about it). 

Just to pick up on your specific points here.

What matters are:

- length of marriage (this can include period of cohabitation)

- children

- Housing requirements

It doesn't matter who paid what, the law in England says that you are a 50/50 partnership (or rather, this is the starting assumption). It also doesn't matter whose name is on the deeds, I don't know where that came from. The house you live in is referred to as the Former Marital (or matrimonial) home (FMH), this is because it is the family home. It is not yours or his, it is the family home. It doesn't matter who paid etc.

If you marriage was short (<3-5 years) and you paid the deposit you could argue for a better settlement in your favour. But you need to remember that the court wants to ensure that this is enough money for both parties to house themselves post divorce. So, if you earn say £60k and he earns say £25k his mortgage capacity is much lower and the court might see that he needs a higher deposit. If the marriage is very short you can argue for putting him back in the position before your marriage (renting etc)

In respect of your income, if there is a large disparity he may request (but may not get) spousal support. I was the breadwinner but the equity in the home was so much that this was not deemed appropriate. All savings, shares and pensions will be considered part of the overall pot. Your distance from retirement will be considered, retraining needs if one or both of you gave up work to care for the kids.

If you were married for longer than 5 years I would get the notion of only giving 10% out of your head. It's silly. It won't happen unless you give him most of your pension or agree to spousal support. It will be 50/50 and perhaps you can get this down to 40/60 or even 35/65 but if you were married for a while ,it doesn't matter than you paid the mortgage. You are essentially making him homeless and giving him 10% to find somewhere else to live. The court won't approve it.

EDIT: My divorce cost me £15k in fees but part of that was for repeated attempts to get him to reply. The more ready for divorce and responsive he is, the cheaper it will be. Also, paying for a good solicitor is a good investment. It will cost you less overall. 

I got to FDR and we agreed everything on the day. Divorcing was the best decision I ever made, even though the process was tough at times. I was liberated and free.

You need to go into this being pragmatic and realistic. For example, if you can agree early that he gets 35% and the cost of that is say £35k instead of £20k but it saves you £20k in solicitors and court fees, and a year of your life, which is best?

Edited May 5, 2021 by Stupidkupid