don't know what to think! I may have a real date!

[grays]

I have been seeing this guy regularly but infrequently for five years.  He has a home in my town but he’s never here, travels a lot for work, and his main home is somewhere else.  For most of our friendship I would’ve had to call us fwb, always wanted more, but even though he’s said he hasn’t been with anyone else all these years what I’ve heard is “I may or may not have a woman (or god forbid a wife) in one or more of the other cities I do business in.”  

Not too long before covid I told him I didn’t want to have sex anymore bc it feels kinda lonely to have him just pass through town and have sex but nothing more really.  So for well over a year we’ve just been having lunch lunch or something when he comes to town.  I felt like that was a really great thing and I know him so much better now, felt like he was becoming a true friend, and truthfully (not sure if this is good or bad) didn’t have my sights on anything beyond.  Kinda figured if we were gonna be a couple it would’ve happened long ago.

So, the last two times he’s been in town we have spent the night together and it’s felt so intimate, a whole nother level, different than before.  And he’s been in much closer contact since.  I’ve been almost ignoring it, like taking it w a grain of salt, almost feeling like if I acknowledge it, it’ll just evaporate.

He texted a while ago and said he flew in this morning, I said, aww, damn, I have my kids tonight and he said, can you just sneak out for dinner?  So we made plans and when I looked the place up he wanted to go to it turns out it’s fancy af.  Like dress code and the whole nine, looks like the cheapest entree is $65.  This is completely out of my comfort zone (tho totally happy to stretch myself lol), I wasn’t sure if I had any shoes other than flip flops and sneakers but I found some, my “interview” shoes.  lol

I wish so bad that I could know what the hell is going on with him.  I’m excited but I’m still scared of acknowledging it or making a place for him in my life.  On the one hand it seems like there is some kind of potential but I don’t wanna realize it’s all smoke and mirrors, yk?

[Pumpernickel]

Looks like he wants tro make a real effort – Let us know how it went.

I am happy for you, how exciting! Especially since you really seem to like him. 

 

[Dis]

He sounds awful

 

If I were you I wouldn't waste a single text on him other than to tell him to hit up those other women he may or may not have in other states. Seriously?

 

You allowed him to treat you like a used up, cheap option for years. Why? And now that he actually feels like he needs to put in effort to get a piece you aren't feeling like it's kind of a slap in the face? 

 

Nothing changed just because he wants to take you out. Taking a woman out is bare minimum stuff. He's just doing it now because he knows you'll fall for it and end up in his bed after... and from the sounds of it, he's probably right

 

Respect yourself and do better

Edited April 28, 2021 by Dis

[glows]

What changed your mind about not having sex from pre-covid (early 2020?) to the past two times he was in town and you decided to be intimate with him again?

Do what you've done before and take things with a grain of salt. I don't think you should make space for him at all for anything and don't sleep with him again if you're looking for something more than no strings attached sex. Enjoy the dinner though and let us know how it goes.

[Wiseman2]

Ok, so whenever he's in town you get together?.

He's been drive-by dating for a long time. And usually last minute.

Only you can decide if a distance FWB is what you want.

[grays]

2 hours ago, Dis said:

He sounds awful

 

If I were you I wouldn't waste a single text on him other than to tell him to hit up those other women he may or may not have in other states. Seriously?

 

You allowed him to treat you like a used up, cheap option for years. Why? And now that he actually feels like he needs to put in effort to get a piece you aren't feeling like it's kind of a slap in the face? 

 

Nothing changed just because he wants to take you out. Taking a woman out is bare minimum stuff. He's just doing it now because he knows you'll fall for it and end up in his bed after... and from the sounds of it, he's probably right

 

Respect yourself and do better

I dunno, man, why bother being disrespected by him when I can come here and be disrespected by you?  
 

He has never made me feel like he was just trying to get laid, never.  I know he enjoys sex with me and I enjoy sex with him.  But he has shown again and again that he wants to hang out whether we have sex or not.  And no, tonight was not about getting laid.  I think if I had wanted to spend the night with him we woulda met up after his meeting.  I said I couldn’t do that bc I was getting my kids back tonight so we made plans to meet up before I got my kids.  He knew before we dinner that there was no chance we were gonna have sex.  When we left the restaurant he walked me to my car, said goodnight, he went to his meeting and I went to pick up my boys.  He did not in any way shape or form push for sex.  And he’s not like that, never has been.  Like I said, we saw each other regularly for over a year with no sex and he was fine with that, never pushed me at all.

 

He has never treated me like a used up anything and was not at all trying to get a piece.  You know, I love having sex with him, why wouldn’t it have been me trying to get a piece?  I’m pretty sure that we both very much enjoy f***ing the other and I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with that or why that makes HIM some kind of victimizer.  He has never led me to believe he was more committed than he was and he has never once bought me a dinner or anything else, or said something sweet or told me a lie to get me to have sex with him.  And when I do have sex with him, I have always felt like the terms were fair — we just both wanted to, it wasn’t some kind of exchange, like he buys me some expensive dinner and I let him f*** me.  Ewww.

[grays]

3 hours ago, glows said:

What changed your mind about not having sex from pre-covid (early 2020?) to the past two times he was in town and you decided to be intimate with him again?

Do what you've done before and take things with a grain of salt. I don't think you should make space for him at all for anything and don't sleep with him again if you're looking for something more than no strings attached sex. Enjoy the dinner though and let us know how it goes.

You know, truthfully, I can’t remember why I decided to spend the night with him that first time back.  I think it just felt right in the moment.  No regrets, though, I feel great about him, much respect and when I’m with him I feel close to him.  

I had a great time tonight.  It was really nice to feel a little romance and it’s always good to see him.  I am taking it w a grain of salt still, though.  He’ll be back in a week and a half and we’ll see.  I’m open to more but I’m not going to be surprised or horrified if things with him move forward just the way they are.  He’s very into his work and I think he doesn’t want to have to put that on hold or turn his attention away from it for a relationship.  I don’t think that makes him a bad guy.  But I am dating other people and if I find someone I dig who wants to have a real relationship I’ll probably forget all about him.

The thing that captures my attention with him is that he’s physically affectionate in a way that no other men have been with me, even my husband of 25 years.  I need it and a swear it feeds my soul, and I think his, too.  And it’s not sexual really.  I mean, the sex is unbelievable, but he holds onto me in a way that is just warm and loving.

I don’t believe that he’s married, at all, but I remind myself that there’s really no way to know.  I’ve been to his house here and there’s no sign of a woman, but I don’t have any idea what’s happening w him when he’s not in town.  I have met his mother, two sisters and his kid, though, and a couple of friends.  I’ve never caught him in a lie and never heard him say something that didn’t ring true.  After knowing him for five years I can’t say he’s ever done anything to make me question his integrity.  I remind myself that he could be married or have a girlfriend bc I have run into that before and I’m not trying to get hurt here.

 

 

[glows]

Actually, yes, I do know exactly what you mean and I wouldn't fault you at all for enjoying that physical intimacy. I've been married, divorced, the whole bag. I did know someone who also treated me well but we were absolutely not a match. Unlike you I made up my mind early on and did not see him in a long term/stable relationship way. The physical aspect of things was very warm and loving and he was intuitive and kind. I was surprised someone could easily express that while not in a relationship and it was very fluid and natural between us for the short time it lasted. I lost interest after some time due to incompatibilities.

With him traveling a lot, how is he available for a relationship? 

Do you like the idea of him more than actually being with him?

Wouldn't his previous comments about other women or jokes like “I may or may not have a woman (or god forbid a wife) in one or more of the other cities I do business in" cause you to wonder even if he did commit to a relationship with you?

I think it's wonderful that you're dating others too and meeting other people. I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all. I see you have some anxiety about him having a girlfriend or being married. If you're not sure, ask him if he's seeing anyone else. Why the hesitation? I think you should know as basic information even even if for your own health/sexual health as well and the risk of STDs. Protect yourself and always remember, more knowledge is better than less.

If you don't feel comfortable with this arrangement at any time, end it. Be assertive and be clear that there are some things you won't budge on. Enjoy and live your life. Glad the dinner went well!

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by glows

[FMW]

The way I read it was he did not actually say the "may or may not" reference, that's just what OP "heard", as in she was trying to be real with herself about things.  

@graysIt sounds like you both enjoy each other, and not just for the sex.  That's great.  Unless or until you actually talk about things, I would continue to stay grounded about it and not let yourself have expectations beyond how things are now.  That doesn't mean things can't progress, just don't let yourself dwell on that thought without something more to back it up.

Are you at a point (as to your own patience with the situation) where you can actually make yourself have the conversation with him about whether more is possible?  It's always awkward, and only grows more so the longer the conversation is avoided.  But it's something you might consider if you don't want to continue without more clarity about how he sees things.

[grays]

9 hours ago, glows said:

Actually, yes, I do know exactly what you mean and I wouldn't fault you at all for enjoying that physical intimacy. I've been married, divorced, the whole bag. I did know someone who also treated me well but we were absolutely not a match. Unlike you I made up my mind early on and did not see him in a long term/stable relationship way. The physical aspect of things was very warm and loving and he was intuitive and kind. I was surprised someone could easily express that while not in a relationship and it was very fluid and natural between us for the short time it lasted. I lost interest after some time due to incompatibilities.

With him traveling a lot, how is he available for a relationship? 

Do you like the idea of him more than actually being with him?

Wouldn't his previous comments about other women or jokes like “I may or may not have a woman (or god forbid a wife) in one or more of the other cities I do business in" cause you to wonder even if he did commit to a relationship with you?

I think it's wonderful that you're dating others too and meeting other people. I don't think you're doing anything wrong at all. I see you have some anxiety about him having a girlfriend or being married. If you're not sure, ask him if he's seeing anyone else. Why the hesitation? I think you should know as basic information even even if for your own health/sexual health as well and the risk of STDs. Protect yourself and always remember, more knowledge is better than less.

If you don't feel comfortable with this arrangement at any time, end it. Be assertive and be clear that there are some things you won't budge on. Enjoy and live your life. Glad the dinner went well!

 

 

I might like the idea of him more than I actually like him, but not sure.  I have huge respect for him and I find him very attractive and always feel good when I’m with him, but I have no idea what it would be like if he was part of my everyday life. Part of what I was feeling yesterday was that it’s possible this ship has sailed, like there was a time when I would’ve been happy to explore a more substantial thing with him, but that’s not where my head has been at lately.  The last time I spent the night with him was so over the top in terms of passion and closeness that it’s hard to not think about and I have a feeling it’s gotten under his skin a bit too.

It doesn’t surprise me that he can be loving outside of a committed relationship.  I’ve had another fwb this whole time, probably just about 6 years, I think we met in May.  And he is someone I can honestly say that I LOVE.  I don’t want to have a relationship with him bc he drinks way too much.  But when I’m with him is the only time I’ve felt the sort of comfort I felt with my husband, like complete trust and acceptance, like family.  

8 hours ago, FMW said:

The way I read it was he did not actually say the "may or may not" reference, that's just what OP "heard", as in she was trying to be real with herself about things.  

@graysIt sounds like you both enjoy each other, and not just for the sex.  That's great.  Unless or until you actually talk about things, I would continue to stay grounded about it and not let yourself have expectations beyond how things are now.  That doesn't mean things can't progress, just don't let yourself dwell on that thought without something more to back it up.

Are you at a point (as to your own patience with the situation) where you can actually make yourself have the conversation with him about whether more is possible?  It's always awkward, and only grows more so the longer the conversation is avoided.  But it's something you might consider if you don't want to continue without more clarity about how he sees things.

We have actually talked about it but not for a couple of years.  He has always said that he wants to be with me and that he’s not with anyone else, but he’s definitely married to his work.  I know some stuff about his work, but I don’t think I really get the scope of it.  He started and runs his own business with five offices in three different countries.  I had been picturing a handful of employees at each of the offices but a while back he casually mentioned that he’s got 350 employees in his European office.  I had no idea.  And it makes me think there’s not a lot of wiggle room for dating.

What I have always thought and still think is that we’re going to go on like this until I meet someone I can really be with. In the meantime, I’m not expecting anything from him.  I enjoy what time I get with him, but when he’s not around I’m not thinking about him.

Anyway, I’m not sure why he wanted to have a fancy dinner last night, but it was fun.  I doubt it’s gonna be a pivotal relationship moment.  But I really like it that even though we have a great sexual chemistry, he chooses to spend time with me when it’s clear sex isn’t a possibility.  And he’ll buy me a crazy expensive meal without any expectations or weirdness.  

[glows]

That's also his lifestyle and the way he is so it's probably not out of the ordinary for go out or eat like that with anyone. Regardless, yes, it's both wondrous and fascinating, isn't it, when individuals can enjoy each others' company without it devolving into some kind of immature and silly thing or where there are back and forths about why someone is inconsistent. 

I wouldn't think too much about what he does outside of the local time you both spend together. In my mind, dating him isn't realistic. You may think differently. He seems too all over the place to be in a committed relationship. 

Enjoy it for what it is, I say. And good for you. 

 

[Dis]

21 hours ago, grays said:

I dunno, man, why bother being disrespected by him when I can come here and be disrespected by you?  
 

He has never made me feel like he was just trying to get laid, never.  I know he enjoys sex with me and I enjoy sex with him.  But he has shown again and again that he wants to hang out whether we have sex or not.  And no, tonight was not about getting laid.  I think if I had wanted to spend the night with him we woulda met up after his meeting.  I said I couldn’t do that bc I was getting my kids back tonight so we made plans to meet up before I got my kids.  He knew before we dinner that there was no chance we were gonna have sex.  When we left the restaurant he walked me to my car, said goodnight, he went to his meeting and I went to pick up my boys.  He did not in any way shape or form push for sex.  And he’s not like that, never has been.  Like I said, we saw each other regularly for over a year with no sex and he was fine with that, never pushed me at all.

 

He has never treated me like a used up anything and was not at all trying to get a piece.  You know, I love having sex with him, why wouldn’t it have been me trying to get a piece?  I’m pretty sure that we both very much enjoy f***ing the other and I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with that or why that makes HIM some kind of victimizer.  He has never led me to believe he was more committed than he was and he has never once bought me a dinner or anything else, or said something sweet or told me a lie to get me to have sex with him.  And when I do have sex with him, I have always felt like the terms were fair — we just both wanted to, it wasn’t some kind of exchange, like he buys me some expensive dinner and I let him f*** me.  Ewww.

Calling it like I see it 

[Acacia98]

22 hours ago, grays said:

After knowing him for five years I can’t say he’s ever done anything to make me question his integrity.  I remind myself that he could be married or have a girlfriend bc I have run into that before and I’m not trying to get hurt here.

The fact that you dont actually know for sure whether he's married or has a girlfriend is an integrity issue, methinks. The fact that he hasn't categorically come out and explained why he's behaving in a way that is bound to make you fall for him is likely to result in your getting your heart broken. You are kind of idealizing him in your later posts, and that should concern you.

And I think Dis has a point in her post: particularly the bit where she points out he suddenly started making an effort with you after you said you wouldn't sleep with him anymore. You didnt change fundamentally. You're still the same person. Why should your availability for sex have an impact on how much effort and money he invests in interacting with you? And what does that say about his intentions? (I dont have the answers to those questions but think you should look into them and talk to him about all this stuff.)

[grays]

13 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

The fact that you dont actually know for sure whether he's married or has a girlfriend is an integrity issue, methinks. The fact that he hasn't categorically come out and explained why he's behaving in a way that is bound to make you fall for him is likely to result in your getting your heart broken. You are kind of idealizing him in your later posts, and that should concern you.

And I think Dis has a point in her post: particularly the bit where she points out he suddenly started making an effort with you after you said you wouldn't sleep with him anymore. You didnt change fundamentally. You're still the same person. Why should your availability for sex have an impact on how much effort and money he invests in interacting with you? And what does that say about his intentions? (I dont have the answers to those questions but think you should look into them and talk to him about all this stuff.)

I’m not trying to be confusing, I swear, but the timeline was like this...

— fwb’s type thing for 3+ years;

— told him I wasn’t comfortable having sex, so for a year and a half or so we would just meet up for lunch or to hang out, no sex

—  about a month or six weeks ago had sex w him again for the first time, then again, and then...

— fancy restaurant date

All that is just to say that the $$$ date was not so I’d have sex w him again, I already had.

He didn’t change his behavior after I said no sex accept that he seemed completely fine with just hanging out and not having sex which I think is kinda rare and a nice thing.  When we ended up having sex for the first time after that it was not because he was pressuring.  

I don’t have any *real* reason to doubt he’s single except that men have lied to me before and I’m running low on trust for men.  And then his lifestyle leaves it a real possibility, but it’s quite possible he just travels a lot for work.

[glows]

I have some more thoughts: 
Do you not find his lack of physical availability a turn off? The world traveler type is fine and all because the stories are endless (hopefully none of them are about his other girlfriends) but at what point does this read "fulfilling/mutual relationship"? Do you see yourself traveling with him also?

You could just as well travel too. Or take yourself out to a nice restaurant. Or you could even order it in, delivered. For two. And have leftovers for tomorrow. And not have to go anywhere or worry about having your kids or not. Why do you need him for that? 

It's not to say you can't or shouldn't or any of that. And you've mentioned already more than once he's probably time-filler while you find the real deal. Why worry about whether he's truly available to date you (single) if he's ..kind of, not really totally available anyway?

[Pumpernickel]

59 minutes ago, grays said:

I don’t have any *real* reason to doubt he’s single except that men have lied to me before and I’m running low on trust for men.  And then his lifestyle leaves it a real possibility, but it’s quite possible he just travels a lot for work.

Right. And let’s not forget: Successful guys who travel a lot for business always, easily find women who are interested in them. Everywhere.
Have you ever traveled with him? Has he ever invited you to accompany him anywhere during his business trips? I know you have children, but I’m sure they have a dad to take care of them if you are away for a week or 10 days. 

I don’t know - if the arrangement works for you, I don’t see anything wrong with it. I also don’t look at you as being “exploited”. 😂 

[grays]

1 hour ago, glows said:

I have some more thoughts: 
Do you not find his lack of physical availability a turn off? The world traveler type is fine and all because the stories are endless (hopefully none of them are about his other girlfriends) but at what point does this read "fulfilling/mutual relationship"? Do you see yourself traveling with him also?

You could just as well travel too. Or take yourself out to a nice restaurant. Or you could even order it in, delivered. For two. And have leftovers for tomorrow. And not have to go anywhere or worry about having your kids or not. Why do you need him for that? 

It's not to say you can't or shouldn't or any of that. And you've mentioned already more than once he's probably time-filler while you find the real deal. Why worry about whether he's truly available to date you (single) if he's ..kind of, not really totally available anyway?

I’ve obviously thought about what a relationship with him would look like and I really don’t know.  My stumbling block is more about what it would look like to spend three days in a row with him.  I worry that he’d be too much “get up and go,” while I’d be too much “let’s relax and have a glass of wine.”  Also if we were in a relationship and I did travel with him, so we were physically together, I have no idea if he could handle me emotionally.  I don’t wanna feel alone in a relationship whether we’re physically in the same place or not.

As for why it matters if he’s married, not sure except I wouldn’t want to be part of that.  But I guess also I don’t wanna feel lied to.  Like if this is all honestly the way it is, I can decide to spend time w him or not and that’s fine, but if he’s lying about his circumstances than it’s more than a waste of time.  I’d rather be home watching tv than getting cuddles from a married guy.

35 minutes ago, Pumpernickel said:

Right. And let’s not forget: Successful guys who travel a lot for business always, easily find women who are interested in them. Everywhere.
Have you ever traveled with him? Has he ever invited you to accompany him anywhere during his business trips? I know you have children, but I’m sure they have a dad to take care of them if you are away for a week or 10 days. 

I don’t know - if the arrangement works for you, I don’t see anything wrong with it. I also don’t look at you as being “exploited”. 😂 

He makes it sound like he barely gets female attention.  He is shy and the way we first got together was so weird, like he  didn’t make it happen at all, it more or less happened to him.  lol  And then at first I was really pushy with him.  So I can imagine that there aren’t a lot of women who’re willing to do all that.  I find him very attractive but I think that’s more about how much fun I have with him than his actual appearance.  He’s a terrible dresser.  😂  But I do come back to what you’re saying, he’s a successful guy and hard to imagine there aren’t women in these other cities he frequents.  
 

Right, I don’t feel exploited or tricked or anything.  I feel like I’ve made decisions about this relationship freely and he’s always respected them.  

[glows]

5 hours ago, grays said:

I’ve obviously thought about what a relationship with him would look like and I really don’t know.  My stumbling block is more about what it would look like to spend three days in a row with him.  I worry that he’d be too much “get up and go,” while I’d be too much “let’s relax and have a glass of wine.”  Also if we were in a relationship and I did travel with him, so we were physically together, I have no idea if he could handle me emotionally.  I don’t wanna feel alone in a relationship whether we’re physically in the same place or not.

As for why it matters if he’s married, not sure except I wouldn’t want to be part of that.  But I guess also I don’t wanna feel lied to.  Like if this is all honestly the way it is, I can decide to spend time w him or not and that’s fine, but if he’s lying about his circumstances than it’s more than a waste of time.  I’d rather be home watching tv than getting cuddles from a married guy.

He makes it sound like he barely gets female attention.  He is shy and the way we first got together was so weird, like he  didn’t make it happen at all, it more or less happened to him.  lol  And then at first I was really pushy with him.  So I can imagine that there aren’t a lot of women who’re willing to do all that.  I find him very attractive but I think that’s more about how much fun I have with him than his actual appearance.  He’s a terrible dresser.  😂  But I do come back to what you’re saying, he’s a successful guy and hard to imagine there aren’t women in these other cities he frequents.  
 

Right, I don’t feel exploited or tricked or anything.  I feel like I’ve made decisions about this relationship freely and he’s always respected them.  

It's probably one of the first things I ask after all the pleasantries and small talk (whether a guy is married or single, or ever been married). I guess it seems odd to me that this has never come up between the both of you after these years seeing each other. If it matters then why haven't you asked?

[grays]

We have talked about it, told me his whole dating history and he’s heard all mine.  But that was true of the married man I fell for a few years ago, too.  He just left the wife out of his story.  According to him he is not only not married, but also not seeing anyone else.  If I hadn’t been dating other people all this time I’d be lonely and horny outta my mind, so it’s hard for me to really believe he hasn’t been or isn’t currently involved with someone else.  But he’s very different from me.  He has about a million siblings and communicates with them and his mom daily, talks about his nieces and nephews like they’re part of his everyday life.  I have no family other than my children (who are children so I don’t lean on them for emotional support).  I think he’s just pretty content with his life, like he’s getting what he needs. 

[glows]

I see what you mean. Only time will tell whether he fulfills that emotional requirement in a relationship also. 

[spiderowl]

Er grays, didn't you say he may or may not have a wife in another town/city?  Do you want to get involved and be the other woman?

[grays]

7 hours ago, spiderowl said:

Er grays, didn't you say he may or may not have a wife in another town/city?  Do you want to get involved and be the other woman?

He has told me he’s not married or seeing anyone else.  It’s just hard to trust in that when he’s away so much of the time.  Truthfully I mostly brought it up bc I was trying to imagine in what way people were going to be nasty to me in response to my post and pretty sure if I hadn’t have said it I woulda gotten more flack for leaving it out.

[Wiseman2]

Whatever you want to do is fine. If you have a distance FWB who you meet up with when he's in town and you both enjoy it, who cares what people think?