THIS story is different!

[Sunset]

Hot Coco, did you start another vent on being bashed which has mysteriously dissapeared? I could have sworn there was another one going!!!!!

 

Or is it just me

[Hot Coco]

No, Sunset I didn't. Maybe you're thinking about the one Mega started about me? I don't know why it got deleted. It really never got nasty or anything. I did feel a bit ganged up on but I explained where I was coming from and it was all fairly civil. Some of us agreed to disagree and others just hated me and will always hate me. But it never got nasty so I don't know why the whole thread was taken off.

[allaboutchoices]

In my opinion it's just a lot of misunderstanding going on among members. Coco has different style of expressing her-self from many other people.

I have read many posts by Coco, and I honestly believe that she is not here to bash anyone, she just speaks her mind.

I'm not saying I necessarilly agree, but I accept (hehe, that's been the word of the month in my life:lmao: )

[Hot Coco]

Wow, thanks Choices! Someone understands me! And maybe I do have a different style of expressing myself than many others, but I've seen quite a few who express themselves just as I do. That was kind of refreshing to me.

 

But anyway, you're right choices I don't come to bash. Maybe I'm too opinionated but that's how I am. I mean I do try to be respectful to others...at least I think I'm as respectful towards others as they are to me. Yeah, I lose it every once in awhile. Some people REALLY set me off...ARGH! But even those people are entitled to their opinion.

 

Yes, we should ALL be more accepting and learn some tolerance. I'm trying to anyway!

[liswil]

I think that a lot of what the OP said is true.

 

They make us feel so good--at least that's how it starts. Most of us at the time have low self-esteem and here's this knight who is going to ride off with us. It's VERY addictive.

I had just had someone break up with me and my dad was dying when MM first started trying to talk to me. He made me feel so special.

 

I do think what we see is not who they are in the real world. It's their fantasy of who they are.

And it doesn't seem like the things they do are out of love or selflessness either. Even though they can disguise it well, the things they do are usually to meet their own needs. I don't think they're capable of doing things for any other reasons.

[nosybear819]

I agree that to a certain extent OW/MM relationships are the same and a lot of you ladies are saying that you read the posts and realize that your situation is exactly like what you've read here. I've read some of the posts and I haven't been able to really relate to most of them. I can relate to the bits and pieces of it, you know, bit not a large portion. I can totally relate when I read a post about the OW being hurt and confused emotional and all that.

 

My MM never bashed his W or said anything negative about her, never filled my head with thoughts of our "future", never lied and said that him and his W don't have sex - nothing. Actually, we never spoke of his W at all I don't know her name, what she looks like, job or anything. He never tried to regulate my social life and vice versa. I never call him unless it's planned ahead of time and even then very rarely. I never expect more out of our relationship than what it is. Of course I'm a woman and have my delusional moments of us being together or my thoughts of why didn't I meet him first, you know? But back to what I was saying - I haven't ran across a post here that I could really relate to about the nature of the relationship and believe me - I've been looking.

[Hot Coco]

What do you mean? The "nature" of the relationship is exactly like all of the others. You say:

 

"Of course I'm a woman and have my delusional moments of us being together or my thoughts of why didn't I meet him first, you know?"

 

That's EXACTLY like every other OW. And the longer it goes on the more you will have your "delusional moments." Right now they may be just moments but before you know it they won't be "moments." They'll be your regular thought pattern.

 

You're with someone who really isn't available. If you are really honest with yourself, you will see that your story is like all the others. Not trying to be mean...but your story is fundamentally no different than the ones you've been reading about.

[garner]

Not trying to be mean...but your story is fundamentally no different than the ones you've been reading about.

 

But that doesn't mean she shouldn't still tell it. Maybe people do eventually decide "yes, my experience was similar to other people's" but they still need the chance to work through things, and that often involves talking about their experience to someone. Should people stop composing songs and writing books on the basis that every new song or book will deal with a theme that's been covered before?

[nosybear819]

Clearly you didn't understand my post. Maybe I didn't explain it well enough - perhaps didn't word it correctly or whatever but you didn't get it. When I said what I did about my "delusional moments" that's what I meant was the same about mine everyone elses relationship - I said I could relate to the feelings of sadness and hurting blah blah blah. But most of the OW here just seem angry bitter etc., etc., etc. Most of the posts are griping about the terrible issues within the relationship and mine wasn't that way he was the MM I was the OW that was it end of story. That's what I meant when I said the nature of the relationship Maybe you missed that part. That's also why I said I've read posts here and haven't really been able to relate to them in that aspect. As far as my delusional moments turning into regular thoughts - no you're wrong our relationship lasted about 2 years and has pretty much ended so I'm not really worried about that. Maybe I cleared that up for you but then again maybe I haven't . doesn't really matter either way I guess - I tried though.

[nosybear819]

So Hot CoCo - what's your story like anyway?

[Hot Coco]

But that doesn't mean she shouldn't still tell it. Maybe people do eventually decide "yes, my experience was similar to other people's" but they still need the chance to work through things, and that often involves talking about their experience to someone. Should people stop composing songs and writing books on the basis that every new song or book will deal with a theme that's been covered before?

 

You do miss the point of this thread. I've never said anyone shouldn't tell it. Please show me where I've ever said that. That was not the point at all. I'm sorry that you misunderstood.

[lindya]

I'm sorry that you misunderstood.

 

I think you should make that your signature, Hot Coco.

 

You started this thread off by describing it as a vent - apparently about posters who delude themselves that their story is somewhat different from everyone else's. At the end, you invited people to agree with you - or persuade you that their stories really are different.

 

In response to that invitation to comment, I'd say - yes, some posters seem to be in denial of the likelihood that other people have been through similar situations to the one they're currently traumatised by. People want to feel special - particularly when they're in the middle of a trauma. That's probably part of what helps them to cling onto some shreds of self esteem at a time they really need to. Also, if you were to examine the fine details of their situation, the chances are that you would find certain unique aspects.

 

As to people persuading you that their stories are in some way different, I don't think many people will take you up on that invitation. By and large, people in difficult emotional circumstances come here for support, not to convince others that their sorry tale is fresh and original. If they announce their stories as being "different", perhaps it's because they've attempted to get responses before but failed....and are desperate for someone, anyone, to listen to them. Who knows?

 

Finally, a question. Why does it bother you that people think their situation is in some way different? I notice you said

 

I'm including my own. Nothing new about mine either but when I deep into it I thought it was so different, so unique, so special.

 

I'm guessing - and you can correct me if once again you're being misunderstood - that the real trigger for this thread might be that you're not quite over the disappointment of finding out that your own personal story wasn't really that "different" from other people's. That Hollywood producers weren't going to beat a path to your door for the film rights. That you weren't as special as you thought..

 

If so, once you've resolved the feelings of disappointment about your non-uniqueness, perhaps you'll feel less wound up by the fact that other people are still at the "nobody else has ever gone through anything quite like this before" stage.

[Ladyjane14]

Recently, I've noticed alot of folks posting in the OW/OM forum who are NOT either an OW or an OM. That's the way it always is here at LS, and it's a pretty good thing for the most part. More perspectives allow for a greater overall TRUTH, I suppose.

 

But lately, what I've realized is...that even when a poster with an opposing viewpoint is well-intentioned.....the OW's get less actual work done. Not to say that there aren't some brilliant non-OW posters, but rather to say that unless your heart is truly desirous of addressing the specifics of the problem..... Well, it's just not sincerely helpful to impose your own philosophy.

 

For example, I've seen a good many posts on here addressing the question, 'Why blame the OW/OM?'. Well....to be honest, if you have to ASK the question....you're unlikely to understand the answer.

 

As far as my personal philosophy is concerned, I can't understand HOW a person could be so selfish and so self-centered as to be willing to adapt to the life of the stereotypical homewrecker. I can't understand how anyone would willingly make themselves a party to destroying another person's family dynamic, even should they consider their role to be a passive one.

 

While I can understand how one person would not necessarily agree with another person's individual value system, (i.e. the concept of monogamous marriage)....I can't understand how that same person could disrespect another's right to exercise their value-system by taking deliberate action to interfere with it.

 

Like many who are like-minded, I am flabbergasted to the point of comment, at times....but what I've found is that it's largely a wasted effort, and disingenuous to boot. The idea that it's not nice to f*ck somebody else's husband or wife is NOT rocket science. UNLESS you have nothing else of import in your life. Then, it would seem to be not such a simple concept.

 

As it stands, my viewpoint is NOT helpful to them. They live in a different world than I do, and for all intents and purposes, they do not understand my language. By imposing my viewpoint, I only detract from their ability to problem-solve with the help of more supportive posters. At the heart of the matter, and in all honesty and candor….I am not particularly sympathetic to what, in my opinion, is a self-made problem. If I were, then perhaps my perspective would have merit. Lacking sympathy for the problem, does not mean that I’m not hopeful for resolution for the OW, however. In a larger sense, I hate to see people suffer.

 

The OW's seem to get more accomplished in the way of resolving these issues when they are unimpeded. They do manage to get it done when left to themselves. It’s easy to observe it when you read through threads that are unhampered by the oppositional poster.

 

The fact is….the TRUTH as I see it, doesn't hold water for them. I could argue the points of my philosophy, and a good many folk would agree with me.....but it doesn't help the OW one bit. They don't SEE the same truth that I see. All they see is OPPOSITION. That only amounts to providing them with an opponent to take their frustrations out upon, a diversion from dealing with whatever their current and particular situation is. Like waving the proverbial 'red flag' before an enraged bull.

 

There seems to be something of an OW 'movement' out in a few internet forums....a banding together of the underdog. We only ADD to that sense of defensiveness, when we post from a position of oppositional philosophy. It detracts from the individual work being accomplished.

 

While "there is nothing new under the sun"......some folks just need to find that out for themselves. It's all part of the process, and it can't be rushed.

[Hot Coco]

Lady Jane. Excellent post. I agree with most of it. But were you referring to me when you said:

 

"Recently, I've noticed alot of folks posting in the OW/OM forum who are NOT either an OW or an OM."

 

Are you putting me in that category? I'm not. I've already told my story.

 

You say:

 

While "there is nothing new under the sun"......some folks just need to find that out for themselves. It's all part of the process, and it can't be rushed.

 

I don't agree that this thread is trying to "rush" that process necessarily. For some it might. For others it won't. It's just a discussion.

 

But your other points are excellent in my opinion.

 

Lyndia, I'm sorry you don't understand the point. And you know what? Go back and read some of the responses on this thread. Most people AREN'T misunderstanding...some are. It doesn't matter.

 

You know, this wasn't about "examining the fine details" DUH! Of course if you do THAT, you'll find differences. It was about examining the fundamentals...the dynamics and the end result. Those are by and large the same.

 

You say:

 

Finally, a question. Why does it bother you that people think their situation is in some way different?

 

That's an easy answer. It DOESN'T bother me! Please show me where I said it bothers me! It was merely an observation. This is a discussion. Some people might actually be getting something good out of it (I have!) Obviously you're not one of those.

 

You say:

 

If so, once you've resolved the feelings of disappointment about your non-uniqueness"

 

Oh, NO my dear. I'm VERY unique and special. It's my situation that wasn't. We're ALL unique and special. But the point is that this situation ISN'T! Now, do you "get" it? If you don't you don't. That's ok. Enough of us DO get it. So it's ok. We're not always going to "get" everyone's posts.

[Sami_D]

I think Ladyjane has a lot of good points. I do think it's detrimental to discussion, decision-making and healing on this board for so many of the posts to consist of self-evident comments about the morality, self-imposedness (I know, i'm making up words), almost-certain-not-to-workoutness of this whole situation. And if they didn't know before, they can find out soon enough from searching for threads by people who've been there and done it before.

 

Tell us something we don't know. Really.

 

My one suggestion for people involved in these Rs is to search in some of the other forums here too. While you'll hear on OW that he almost never leaves, the fact is that posts on the Infidelity forum, or threads on divorcing, show that actually, it's not so rare as we're told.

 

I think the thing with any of the coping types of forums on LS is that most of the people 'end up' here because the situation they are in has got to a terrible pitch. So we're bound to hear the extremes of everything. Maybe, just maybe, life isn't as bad as that for most OW. Maybe it 'turns out OK' more often than we're hearing.

 

Just a few things I've been thinking about.

[Hot Coco]

Good points Sami. But what are you saying? Since there's nothing new under the sun we should stop posting about this subject because people can just do "research." Maybe it helps the poster to post what they do....even if it HAS been said before.

 

I don't think EVERY thread started is only for those reading it. I think in many cases it does help the poster to state their views and work out some things within themselves.

 

I don't think that we should be getting into who should post, what they should post, etc. etc. No one should be "censored" unless they're just plain rude and abusive. Everyone should be allowed to have his/her point of view. If it helps some people great. If it doesn't then move on to another thread. Like you said, read up in other areas. Good suggestion. That way you can get a more "rounded" view.

[newbby]

its true, its really not nice to f*ck somebodies husband. however having been in the position i completely understand how it happens and that pretty much all of the time, the ow is really tricked into the situation. sorry. i have many regrets about being in the situation, and did all along. had huge amounts of guilt about her, but i was tricked. i believed he loved me and i believed him when he said the marriage was over, and i really really really wanted to be happy.

[Hot Coco]

women the world over believe in love and fairytales and want to meet their prince charming. if they believe they have met him and that all their romantic feelings are reciprocated, and he is chasing her and she thinks that his marriage is over aside from a few practicalities, and she has her own desire for happiness too, believes that they make each others lives happier, then the practicalities seem quite small. if i had a partner who truly met his soulmate then i would not want to be with him anymore either. the unfairness is in the lies and the maintaining of the double life and that is all. however, by the time she realises this is the case the ow is most certainly hooked.

it really isnt as most people seem to argue, a case of stealing somebody. it seems ludicrous to think of ownership of a partner, as if the partner has no free will and is not entitled to seek their own happiness. if somebody is with the wrong person for them (even if they were right for each other at some point) then why should they stay.

the unfairness is only in the cheating and i understand completely that the ow should really wait until the mm is single, but, it seems very unlikely that anybody would give up the comfort of their own lives without realising the reality of a new relationship. so this would never happen either.

 

You speak of "a few practicalities" and "the practicalities seem quite small." You say the unfairness is "only" in the cheating.

 

Talk about minimizing a situation! The "practicalties" you speak of...the "small practicalties" are quite LARGE. The MM is still MARRIED! THAT'S a small practicality? The fact that the guy isn't divorced yet and still lives with his wife is a "small practicality?" I'm sorry but in my world that's HUGE. It's no small thing!

 

And what do you mean the unfairness is "only" in the cheating?! Is that a small "practicality" too? Just a minor detail?

 

And what's all that about not "stealing" a person. When 2 people are married, yes they BELONG with and to each other until they are DIVORCED! WHy is that such a foreign concept? I don't get it.

 

"but, it seems very unlikely that anybody would give up the comfort of their own lives without realising the reality of a new relationship. so this would never happen either"

 

Don't say it "would never happen" It does with some people. Some of us can walk away and exercise self-control at a certain point. Some people CAN control their impulses and go with what is right. It's not a matter of giving up the "comfort of their own lives." It's a matter of doing what's right. And you know what? Sometimes, doing what's right is a little uncomfortable at first.

[lindya]

Finally, a question. Why does it bother you that people think their situation is in some way different?

 

That's an easy answer. It DOESN'T bother me! Please show me where I said it bothers me!

 

That would be in the first post of this thread, when you announced that this you were venting. Or are you in the habit of venting about things that don't bother you? Very odd of you if that's the case, but each to their own

[Hot Coco]

Then call me odd. Yes, I "vent" about things all the time that don't necessarily bother me. Doesn't everyone? Believe me, if someone thinks their case is TRULY different..so be it. Why should I care? I don't. I was only making some observations about my case and others. Why does that bother you so much?

 

If it makes you feel good to call me odd and insult me as you have, go ahead. Any way that I can make you feel better about yourself is ok with me. And if you don't like the premise of this thread so much why do you keep reading and posting? Move on to a thread where you agree with the OP. You have every right to disagree with me. I respect that. But what are you trying to accomplish with your attacks on me? You either get it or you don't- like I said before. If you don't you don't. I don't mind.

[Ladyjane14]

But were you referring to me when you said:

 

"Recently, I've noticed alot of folks posting in the OW/OM forum who are NOT either an OW or an OM."

 

Are you putting me in that category? I'm not. I've already told my story.

 

Not necessarily. But I do admit that I don't read extensively in this particular forum, so I don't know your particular story. Although, I have noticed that some of your posts have a tendancy to elicit defensiveness on the part of the OWs. And that is my larger point.

 

When the OW's are put on the defensive in response to perceived criticism, they are NOT reaping the benefits of this particular forum.

 

Twenty-five years ago, I could have shared personal experience with them, and it might have been helpful. I would have just been another young woman muddling through a confusing situation. I would have been someone who they could readily identify with.

 

Presently, as a middle-aged woman who has become ingrained with the idea that 'the ends do NOT justify the means', I have nothing I can offer them that would be acceptible.

 

Sami D does NOT understand why she can't win here. She can't understand that even if she does in fact "win" the day, the Prize is a cheater without balls enough to solve his own problems. But currently, that's MY opinion and not hers.

 

God bless her ....she will have to find her own truth for herself, the one that makes the best sense for her. MY TRUTH won't apply. Only perspectives offered from other women's real-time experiences will help. The moldy old mistakes of my youth are ineffective, because truly....I no longer identify with them.

 

That's not to say that non-OW's, or even former-OW's, have nothing to offer. It's just that if a poster can no longer identify with the OW's perspective, if their views are not heart-felt and specific to the problem, there is no purpose in offering it. It becomes detrimental to the process at work.

 

Just an observation, Hot Coco, and no personal offense intended.

[Hot Coco]

its true, its really not nice to f*ck somebodies husband. however having been in the position i completely understand how it happens and that pretty much all of the time, the ow is really tricked into the situation. sorry. i have many regrets about being in the situation, and did all along. had huge amounts of guilt about her, but i was tricked. i believed he loved me and i believed him when he said the marriage was over, and i really really really wanted to be happy.

 

Just curious. How were you "tricked?"

 

Also, the marriage isn't REALLY over just because they tell you that. If he's still living with W and/or not divorced...it's not over.

 

In your case, was he still living with W? Was he divorced yet? If he was still with her and not divorced, I don't see how you were "tricked." But maybe your situation was "different."

 

Look, all the way around it's a situaion that stinks. And believe me, I can see how you can get "hooked" but none of us were really "tricked" unless you genuinely thought he was divorced and wasn't living with W. That's the ONLY situation I can think of where you could really have been "tricked." You may have been gullible and naive but not "tricked."

[Ladyjane14]

its true, its really not nice to f*ck somebodies husband. however having been in the position i completely understand how it happens and that pretty much all of the time, the ow is really tricked into the situation. sorry. i have many regrets about being in the situation, and did all along. had huge amounts of guilt about her, but i was tricked. i believed he loved me and i believed him when he said the marriage was over, and i really really really wanted to be happy.

 

I know, honey. I'm sorry that my comment was harsh. That's WHY I don't post in here very much.

 

You're a good egg. And you do ALOT to help other folks. THIS is the point I'm trying to make.

[Hot Coco]

Not necessarily. But I do admit that I don't read extensively in this particular forum, so I don't know your particular story. Although, I have noticed that some of your posts have a tendancy to elicit defensiveness on the part of the OWs. And that is my larger point.

 

When the OW's are put on the defensive in response to perceived criticism, they are NOT reaping the benefits of this particular forum.

 

Twenty-five years ago, I could have shared personal experience with them, and it might have been helpful. I would have just been another young woman muddling through a confusing situation. I would have been someone who they could readily identify with.

 

Presently, as a middle-aged woman who has become ingrained with the idea that 'the ends do NOT justify the means', I have nothing I can offer them that would be acceptible.

 

Sami D does NOT understand why she can't win here. She can't understand that even if she does in fact "win" the day, the Prize is a cheater without balls enough to solve his own problems. But currently, that's MY opinion and not hers.

 

God bless her ....she will have to find her own truth for herself, the one that makes the best sense for her. MY TRUTH won't apply. Only perspectives offered from other women's real-time experiences will help. The moldy old mistakes of my youth are ineffective, because truly....I no longer identify with them.

 

That's not to say that non-OW's, or even former-OW's, have nothing to offer. It's just that if a poster can no longer identify with the OW's perspective, if their views are not heart-felt and specific to the problem, there is no purpose in offering it. It becomes detrimental to the process at work.

 

Just an observation, Hot Coco, and no personal offense intended.

 

I don't agree that it becomes detrimental to the process at work, as you say. Not across the board. For SOME it might be. For others, like me, it's very helpful to hear what people like you (the no nonsense types) have to say.

 

If my posts elicit defensiveness so be it. On the whole the OW/OM are a defensive bunch as someone else stated. I can't control people's reactions. I'm not going to worry about that if I'm being honest and respectful.

 

If SOME don't reap the benefits that means others do. And that's a good thing. There's no "formula" to giving EVERYONE what they want. And I'm even going to try.

 

And I really don't agree that you have nothing to offer that would be acceptable. They might balk at your message initially but I think people would still get something out of your experiences even if they don't immediately like your message.

 

ALL viewpoints and perspectives should be encouraged. Not just a certain kind. And that's where we disagree.

 

You've stated your stance on this issue in another post on here. Why did you do that if you didn't think something good would come of it?

 

It was kind of funny because you stated it very directly all the while saying it's of no use to anyone to hear it. You don't really know that. Would it surprise you to hear that it helped ME? YES, it did. All things I've said to myself but it was good to see someone else say them to reconfirm it in my mind.

 

I guess we can just agree to disagree.

[lindya]

Move on to a thread where you agree with the OP.

 

Why? This is a discussion board. Sometimes people agree and sometimes they disagree. A bit of disagreement is a healthy thing.

 

You have every right to disagree with me. I respect that.

 

Yet you get irate when people disagree with you. Why is that? Why would posts that don't concur with your opinion constitute...

 

attacks on me?

 

Someone disagreeing with you is not necessarily a personal attack. Neither is someone choosing to respond to you in a similar tone to the one you use to address others. I'm a bit astonished that someone who is pretty robust and sometimes quite rude in expressing her views and responding to other people's posts should suddenly become so sensitive whenever she perceives any criticism coming her way. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.