Author Hot Coco Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 I CAN take it and I agree that we should have a discussion where there are different views. BUT, you have attacked me. You said my signature should be something about "I'm misunderstood" blah blah and other attacks. THat's not intelligent conversation that's rude and juvenile. If you don't do that I welcome all of your comments even if I don't agree with them. I didn't tell other people who disagreed with me that they were attacking me. I only told you that because you were. And I have not been rude. I didn't insult you or tell you what you should have as YOUR signature. And for the record, I'm not irate at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 You've stated your stance on this issue in another post on here. Why did you do that if you didn't think something good would come of it? I was just illustrating why I am no longer a person who readily identifies with this problem. A post at LS is often a 'cry in the dark' from a person in need. I cannot answer that call in the way that Newbby can. There are some non-OWs, Lucrezia Borgia and WWIU spring to mind, who can also answer that call. On other boards in the forum, I think I do have something to offer. But not here, because I'm not compelled to it in the way that these other good-hearted folks are. Five or six hundred Ladyjane posts back, you'd see me offering the same arguement that you have. All perspectives have value. But I've changed my stance to some degree. It's a matter of nuance, true. Simply put, I've had a measure of time in order to observe the OW immerged in the process. When left to her own devices and in the hands of the truly sympathetic, she manages to "git 'er done". Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 I absolutely understand what you're saying LJ. But I STILL (I'm stubborn;) thnk there's value to other viewpoints that are not so "touchy/feely" in their approach. Like I said I value that kind of response myself. And I know there others like me who do too. I do understand your point but there's room for all of us here I think. I respond best to YOUR brand of truth. Stating that is is largely a self-imposed problem, the idea of being a homewrecker, the notion of monogamy in a marriage as being something of value. All true. That's all tough "medicine" to take. But it's necessary medicine (for SOME of us anyway.) I guess I'm saying that some of us respond well to that approach while others get defensive and it doesn't help them. It may indeed make them feel worse about themselves. But it DOES help some. And as long as it helps some I don't think we should say that because it hurts others, we shouldn't have that kind of view expressed. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Good points Sami. But what are you saying? Since there's nothing new under the sun we should stop posting about this subject because people can just do "research." Maybe it helps the poster to post what they do....even if it HAS been said before. I don't think EVERY thread started is only for those reading it. I think in many cases it does help the poster to state their views and work out some things within themselves. I don't think that we should be getting into who should post, what they should post, etc. etc. No one should be "censored" unless they're just plain rude and abusive. Everyone should be allowed to have his/her point of view. If it helps some people great. If it doesn't then move on to another thread. Like you said, read up in other areas. Good suggestion. That way you can get a more "rounded" view. No, I didn't say anyone should stop posting. I was just agreeing with the point raised that there are some comments that aren't as helpful as others when someone is trying to make a decision or get to a certain point in their lives. What I was mainly talking about were the self-evident comments. The ideas around morality, the suggestion that if you've been in a relationship with 'a cheater', then if he leaves his wife, he's still 'a cheater'. You know, the things that anyone can work out for themselves without ever having spoken to another human being about their situation. But then I'm glad when someone puts those things into their posts, because at least as a reader I am aware that the moralistic POV is there in the mind of the person giving the advice. And that helps, often, in assessing the value of that advice. But I have to say that I agree with what most people on this forum write. The MM/OW situation IS a mess, it IS usually going nowhere. And even if it does go somewhere, it is something that can never, ever, work out as a happy ending for all concerned. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Sami D does NOT understand why she can't win here. She can't understand that even if she does in fact "win" the day, the Prize is a cheater without balls enough to solve his own problems. But currently, that's MY opinion and not hers. God bless her ....she will have to find her own truth for herself, the one that makes the best sense for her. MY TRUTH won't apply. You're right here. I don't agree (but I do understand your point) that even if the outcome is that he leaves his wife, that I will have 'lost'. For one thing, I don't consider that there is a contest between me and his M. I already know how he feels about me. I also know that his R with his wife is dead (we already split up for 3 months last year so he could work on his M). And if being a man who doesn't leave his M because he doesn't want to hurt his small children makes him lacking in balls, then fine. I love the man with no balls. I've always told him that I respect that decision and fully understand why he finds it virtually impossible to leave. It wouldn't be what I'd do, but it's not my decision is it? I came to these boards because we BOTH wanted to hear advice from people about how we could solve this situation in some way. We were advised to go NC because that way he might just leave his W, and even if he didn't, then I would at least not be an OW any longer. I think that was pretty good advice. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 And if being a man who doesn't leave his M because he doesn't want to hurt his small children makes him lacking in balls, then fine. It's not because he doesn't leave his wife that I'm given cause to wonder at the state of his ballocks. It's that he didn't resolve his marriage one way or the other before he involved himself with an outside love interest. The only possible outcome of that decision must result in certain devastation to one woman or the other. My own husband once distracted himself from the marital issues in a somewhat similar manner. I had to wonder at the state of his balls during that incident, not to mention his HEAD, all of which seemed to be sucked up into a pretty dark place....like maybe his ASS! Anyway, it seems cowardly to me to evade your family problems rather than dealing with them once and for all. One should never lay all that off onto an innocent bystander. On a side note....I am rather happy to report that my husband currently has all his bits and pieces back in their correct locations. If he has a problem with me these days, it'll be ME that hears about it, not some other woman. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 It's not because he doesn't leave his wife that I'm given cause to wonder at the state of his ballocks. It's that he didn't resolve his marriage one way or the other before he involved himself with an outside love interest. The only possible outcome of that decision must result in certain devastation to one woman or the other. Well yes, I can see what you're saying there. But then men aren't known for resolving Rs that are going wrong, are they? I think asking that of a man is something beyond what's normal Plus, if he 'resolved it' and left before he even met me... how would W be less hurt than if he resolves it at some point after he met me? W isn't going to know about the A. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 But then men aren't known for resolving Rs that are going wrong, are they? I think asking that of a man is something beyond what's normal Are we talking about an 'ordinary' man, or an EXTRAORDINARY man? There is a difference. And a girl has to ask herself which kind of man she deserves. An emotionally honest man is not a mythical beast....they do exist. But then again....so do the CAVE MEN, so beware. Years ago, one of my young boyfriends got caught by my stepfather sneaking into the house. My stepdaddy all but FROG-MARCHED him back out through the front door. (It's more comical now, than it was then, I assure you. ) At any rate, his message to that young man was this...."You will NOT approach this house by the back door. My daughter deserves a man who will knock on the front door with honest intentions." Granted, the message probably meant more to me than it did to said young man. I'm sure he continued sneaking through back doors from that day to this. Because, that's the kind of guy he was. But I took something away from it. Even though it took me many years to fully appreciate the concept. Link to post Share on other sites
garner Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 You do miss the point of this thread. I've never said anyone shouldn't tell it. Please show me where I've ever said that. That was not the point at all. I'm sorry that you misunderstood. I guess I did misunderstand. I'm sorry. I thought you were saying that everyone's story was pretty much the same. You're asking me to point out where you said that people shouldn't tell their story, but you didn't explicitly state that at any point. I construed what you said as meaning "it's all been said before, and your story is no different from anyone else's." That would put me off posting my story, as I'd bet on getting a mocking "Oh Jeez, here's another loser" sort of response, and my impression was that this part of the board is for the Other Woman to get a bit of supportive advice. I guess if I misconstrued your point, then you won't mind explaining a bit more about the point you were trying to make. I'm not asking that in order to be rude or pick a fight. I just want to understand what message or belief you're trying to put across here. Are you saying that OW have a notion that their situation is special and that they are convinced that they are not like OW? That if they only realised how similar their situation is to everyone else's, then they might find it easier to get out of it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 Garner, YES, the last sentence is almost EXACTLY I meant....phew! It's SO nice to finally be understood! I can't believe people might have miscontrued it to be the other way...(the oh, jeez another loser way) OMG! I SWEAR I NEVER meant it that way. It never even occured to me that it could be looked at that way! I actually thought this thread would HELP people. Because it actually helped me to read others' posts and realize how they all end up pretty much the same way. I really thought that would help but now I see why I was getting so much "flak." Man, maybe I should stick to just reading and not posting! Link to post Share on other sites
allaboutchoices Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Man, maybe I should stick to just reading and not posting! You know my answer to this, COCO Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 23, 2005 Author Share Posted October 23, 2005 Yeah, yeah...I know... stick to reading. And I have a feeling you're not alone! Link to post Share on other sites
lindya Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Yeah, yeah...I know... stick to reading. And I have a feeling you're not alone! I was in a grubby mood yesterday, Coco. Sorry about that. It's interesting to read through the subsequent comments...and yes, I think I get you now. Keep posting - it's nice to have different styles of expression. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 Hey lyndia, That was really nice of you. Thank you! And don't worry about it. We all have our days. Link to post Share on other sites
newbby Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 thankyou very much lady jane, that was nice of you to say. i didnt take it so harshly either, and i agreed with your pov. i just really wish i had the words to make other people understand but i dont. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 thankyou very much lady jane, that was nice of you to say. i didnt take it so harshly either, and i agreed with your pov. i just really wish i had the words to make other people understand but i dont. Yeah, you do have the words....and much gentler words than mine, I must say. You do ALOT of good here. It's a matter of more than just understanding an OW's POV....it's a matter of Empathy. You have it. And because it's something that I lack in this particular venue....I can be glad that there are folks like you who can pony it up. Link to post Share on other sites
Sami_D Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Ladyjane, maybe you don't have empathy (something that's generally in short supply around here) but, from what I've seen of your posts, what you do have is an ability to take a step back and view a situation from several angles without condemning. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 Thanks Sami. Y'all carry on. I'm out for now. Link to post Share on other sites
elmejor Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 And what's all that about not "stealing" a person. When 2 people are married, yes they BELONG with and to each other until they are DIVORCED! WHy is that such a foreign concept? I don't get it. Because you are wrong. And if you think this way, maybe that explains some things COco, why are you so mean to everybody? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 28, 2005 Author Share Posted October 28, 2005 Really? What have I been wrong about and who have I been mean too? What do you mean "it explains some things." Are you drinking? Link to post Share on other sites
elmejor Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 Its wrong to say married BELONG to each other, because they dont. For instence, if a woman finds her husband in a dark place kissing another woman, she would call the police and report him as stolen? See what I mean? If a spouse man or women, are treating thier spouse as property, than that could explain part of why the person isnt happy and fools around. Just making a point here. A couple of posters here have their own story, then keep saying "most ow/mm affairs are this way," just because of their own married experieance. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Hot Coco Posted October 29, 2005 Author Share Posted October 29, 2005 Its wrong to say married BELONG to each other, because they dont. For instence, if a woman finds her husband in a dark place kissing another woman, she would call the police and report him as stolen? See what I mean? If a spouse man or women, are treating thier spouse as property, than that could explain part of why the person isnt happy and fools around. Just making a point here. A couple of posters here have their own story, then keep saying "most ow/mm affairs are this way," just because of their own married experieance. No, she can't report him as stolen but she can legally divorce him and he can legally (again, under the LAW) be punished for his actions (in the form of $$$ and/or custody) all because of not sticking to kissing the one he BELONGS TO! Now do you get it? Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 maybe you don't have empathy (something that's generally in short supply around here) So wrong! So many replies and posts come from emphaty. Many people here come from different walks of life = different opinions = different views = different experiences. People can relate or cannot. Saying that empathy is in short supply around here is not fair I don't think... Link to post Share on other sites
elmejor Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 No, she can't report him as stolen but she can legally divorce him and he can legally (again, under the LAW) be punished for his actions (in the form of $$$ and/or custody) all because of not sticking to kissing the one he BELONGS TO! Now do you get it? I always did get it. Coco, your the one who does not get it. Married people split up their belongings and money when splitting and so do room mates. So what. You think being married is such the iron clad thing the be all end all, something special. IT IS NOT. You are still saying they "belong" to each other. Not true. And you are STILL WRONG. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 You think being married is such the iron clad thing the be all end all, something special. IT IS NOT. Well, that's just your opinion. And you know what they say about "opinions". Personally, I happen to feel that my marriage is very special....to me and to my husband anyway. A long-standing, committed relationship can take on additional meaning in terms of lasting comfort and partnership. It then becomes it's own unique entity. There's He and there's I....but also, there's Us. Partnership does not necessarily have to negate Individuality. It can enhance it, when you are adding to your partner's daily life rather than subtracting from it. I don't own him....but he's still MINE:love:, by his own vow. Our marriage contract is binding, unless one of us breaks it. We do belong to each other in those terms. Link to post Share on other sites
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